WEBVTT 00:00.790 --> 00:06.510 >> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC. 00:06.510 --> 00:22.350 [silence] 00:22.350 --> 00:24.660 >> CARLA HAYDEN: Good morning, and all of the shushing, 00:24.660 --> 00:26.030 and this is so wonderful. 00:26.030 --> 00:30.330 I'm Carla Hayden and I am very fortunate 00:30.330 --> 00:35.870 because I am the rather new Librarian of Congress. 00:35.870 --> 00:37.170 And so, we're so ... 00:37.170 --> 00:40.990 yes ... I know, I know. 00:40.990 --> 00:45.390 And just think about what I get to do as Librarian of Congress. 00:45.390 --> 00:48.740 I get to be here with special people 00:48.740 --> 00:55.590 and to help you think about special books. 00:55.590 --> 00:58.280 So, we're so glad you're here and also, 00:58.280 --> 01:03.280 I want to give a special thank you to the people who are making sure 01:03.280 --> 01:09.490 that we all get these books, and that's "Everybody Reads." 01:09.490 --> 01:11.190 Could you just stand up for a minute? 01:11.190 --> 01:18.570 Thank you for helping to make this possible. 01:18.570 --> 01:21.530 Now, I've got a quiz question. 01:21.530 --> 01:30.260 This is a special month; do you know what month this is? 01:30.260 --> 01:36.090 Women's Rights, Women's History ... 01:36.090 --> 01:38.430 and we just celebrated Women's Rights. 01:38.430 --> 01:39.730 That's right. 01:39.730 --> 01:41.030 And guess what? 01:41.030 --> 01:44.460 The reason why we were all going like this is because we have one 01:44.460 --> 01:48.330 of the most important and influential women 01:48.330 --> 01:52.520 in the United States, even the world, right here today. 01:52.520 --> 01:56.230 [applause] 01:56.230 --> 01:59.780 >> CARLA HAYDEN: Now, I'm sure you know what she does. 01:59.780 --> 02:05.230 She sits on the highest court in the United States. 02:05.230 --> 02:08.230 >> AUDIENCE: It is the Supreme Court. 02:08.230 --> 02:10.030 >> CARLA HAYDEN: It's the Supreme Court and it's right 02:10.030 --> 02:15.440 across the street; right across from the Library. 02:15.440 --> 02:24.570 And do you know what they're called, the judges? 02:24.570 --> 02:26.960 >> AUDIENCE: Justices. 02:26.960 --> 02:28.280 >> CARLA HAYDEN: Justices ... 02:28.280 --> 02:31.290 great. Have you all been practicing? 02:31.290 --> 02:33.590 >> AUDIENCE: Noooo .... 02:33.590 --> 02:37.870 >> CARLA HAYDEN: Okay, because the name of the book is "Dissent," 02:37.870 --> 02:41.530 so we have 'yes' and 'no' and all that. 02:41.530 --> 02:46.060 We have a great author here today as well, 02:46.060 --> 02:51.240 and she just wrote a wonderful picture book called, "I Dissent." 02:51.240 --> 02:52.540 And you just heard ... 02:52.540 --> 02:55.070 do you know what dissent means? 02:55.070 --> 02:56.760 >> AUDIENCE: I agree. 02:56.760 --> 03:00.410 >> CARLA HAYDEN: Or not. 03:00.410 --> 03:02.240 >> AUDIENCE: I admire? 03:02.240 --> 03:05.030 >> CARLA HAYDEN: You could agree but you don't agree. 03:05.030 --> 03:09.340 It means that some people agree and some people don't. 03:09.340 --> 03:14.590 And Justice, if I get this wrong, please correct me. 03:14.590 --> 03:19.670 But we are delighted that Ms. Levy is here who wrote the book, 03:19.670 --> 03:23.800 and she's going to interview the lady that we're going 03:23.800 --> 03:27.430 to give a big hand to, Chief Justice ... 03:27.430 --> 03:32.050 oops. Sorry. 03:32.050 --> 03:34.640 Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. 03:34.640 --> 03:42.600 [applause] 03:42.600 --> 03:43.900 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Thank you, Dr. Hayden, 03:43.900 --> 03:46.530 for that lovely introduction. 03:46.530 --> 03:50.830 I'm so happy to be here for several reasons: to share this space 03:50.830 --> 03:54.150 with someone who, to me, is a true hero. 03:54.150 --> 03:56.990 To also be here and spend some time with you students 03:56.990 --> 04:02.370 in the Young Readers Center, and to be here at the Library of Congress, 04:02.370 --> 04:05.550 largest library in the world - did you know that? 04:05.550 --> 04:09.450 - where I did research for this book, "I Dissent," 04:09.450 --> 04:12.570 and I've done research for other books that I've written. 04:12.570 --> 04:15.470 And I'm still doing research for my book that's going to come out ... 04:15.470 --> 04:17.590 let's see, you all are in 3rd grade? 04:17.590 --> 04:19.970 ... that will come out when you are in 5th grade. 04:19.970 --> 04:24.260 That's how long sometimes it takes to get a book published. 04:24.260 --> 04:29.570 As you know, I wrote this book about this very accomplished person next 04:29.570 --> 04:33.380 to me, who holds one of the highest offices in our land. 04:33.380 --> 04:37.490 And I focused the book on how she has been disagreeing 04:37.490 --> 04:39.880 with things ever since she was a little girl. 04:39.880 --> 04:45.970 Now, there's no disrespect in this focus because, as you'll see, 04:45.970 --> 04:48.020 Justice Ginsburg's example shows 04:48.020 --> 04:51.440 that disagreeing doesn't make you disagreeable. 04:51.440 --> 04:53.810 And in fact, that we can make change 04:53.810 --> 04:57.030 in the world one disagreement at a time. 04:57.030 --> 05:00.250 So, I'm going to read some pages from my book 05:00.250 --> 05:03.480 so you can see how Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg started 05:03.480 --> 05:06.840 out as little Ruth Bader. 05:06.840 --> 05:09.210 Then, I'll ask Justice Ginsburg some questions 05:09.210 --> 05:11.790 that I think you'll want to hear the answers to. 05:11.790 --> 05:15.420 And then you'll have the chance to ask some questions of your own. 05:15.420 --> 05:22.440 So, I'm going to start with, "I Dissent." 05:22.440 --> 05:24.100 "I Dissent" the book is called, 05:24.100 --> 05:27.490 "Ruth Bader Ginsburg Makes Her Mark." 05:27.490 --> 05:32.610 You could say that Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life has been one 05:32.610 --> 05:38.390 disagreement after another; disagreement with creaky old ideas, 05:38.390 --> 05:42.120 with unfairness, with inequality. 05:42.120 --> 05:46.420 Ruth has disagreed, disapproved, and differed ... 05:46.420 --> 05:52.760 she has objected, she has resisted, she has dissented. 05:52.760 --> 05:54.450 Disagreeable? 05:54.450 --> 05:57.540 No. Determined? 05:57.540 --> 06:03.850 Yes. This is how Ruth Bader Ginsburg changed her life and ours. 06:03.850 --> 06:13.580 In 1940, little Ruth's neighborhood was vibrant with immigrants ... 06:13.580 --> 06:20.430 people from Italy, Ireland, England, Poland, Germany, Jews from Russia 06:20.430 --> 06:23.260 like Ruth's father, Nathan Bader. 06:23.260 --> 06:25.070 People from different cultures 06:25.070 --> 06:29.200 with different holidays, foods, and traditions. 06:29.200 --> 06:31.500 But in all these families in Brooklyn, New York 06:31.500 --> 06:35.700 and in families everywhere, one thing was pretty much the same. 06:35.700 --> 06:40.900 Boys were expected to grow up, go out in the world, and do big things. 06:40.900 --> 06:44.520 Girls? Girls were expected to find husbands. 06:44.520 --> 06:52.130 Ruth's mother disagreed. 06:52.130 --> 06:56.510 Celia Amster Bader thought girls should have the chance 06:56.510 --> 07:01.700 to make their mark on the world, so she took Ruth to the library. 07:01.700 --> 07:05.950 On the shelves were stories of girls and women doing big things. 07:05.950 --> 07:09.440 Ruth read about Nancy Drew, girl detective. 07:09.440 --> 07:14.420 She discovered Amelia Earhart, daring aviator. 07:14.420 --> 07:17.690 She learned of Athena, goddess of Greek myths. 07:17.690 --> 07:21.630 Here were independent girls and women taking charge. 07:21.630 --> 07:24.720 Ruth read her way into this world. 07:24.720 --> 07:29.440 Around her, the sweet smell of books blended with savory aromas 07:29.440 --> 07:32.610 from the Chinese restaurant that was downstairs. 07:32.610 --> 07:34.070 Delicious! 07:34.070 --> 07:37.070 A girl could be anything. 07:37.070 --> 07:43.600 Sometimes Ruth and her parents took car trips out of the crowded city. 07:43.600 --> 07:48.570 As they drove past a hotel in Pennsylvania, Ruth saw a sign ... 07:48.570 --> 07:52.880 "No dogs or Jews allowed." 07:52.880 --> 07:54.570 This is how it was in those days. 07:54.570 --> 07:58.730 Hotels, restaurants, even entire neighborhoods announcing, 07:58.730 --> 08:02.400 "No Jews, no colored, no Mexican. 08:02.400 --> 08:03.880 Whites only." 08:03.880 --> 08:11.830 Ruth and her family were Jewish; this was prejudice pure and simple. 08:11.830 --> 08:14.640 Now it was Ruth's turn to disagree. 08:14.640 --> 08:18.900 She disagreed by never forgetting how it felt to read such words. 08:18.900 --> 08:23.800 She never forgot the sting of prejudice. 08:23.800 --> 08:28.740 In elementary school, Ruth was excellent in some classes, 08:28.740 --> 08:31.000 and less excellent in others. 08:31.000 --> 08:37.320 Her favorites were English, history, and gym; in those she did well. 08:37.320 --> 08:40.280 But then, there was handwriting. 08:40.280 --> 08:44.150 Back then, teachers told left-handers they should try 08:44.150 --> 08:46.500 to write with their right hand. 08:46.500 --> 08:50.550 Ruth's left-handed penmanship was so bad she earned a 08:50.550 --> 08:54.250 "D" on the penmanship test. 08:54.250 --> 08:56.510 She cried. 08:56.510 --> 08:58.850 Then she objected. 08:58.850 --> 09:01.320 Then she protested. 09:01.320 --> 09:05.200 (Pardon me; I want to get in every single one of those words.) 09:05.200 --> 09:09.640 She protested by writing with her left hand from that day forward, 09:09.640 --> 09:15.590 and it turned out she had quite nice handwriting. 09:15.590 --> 09:21.010 That's what I'm going to read, and from there, Ruth, excuse me, 09:21.010 --> 09:25.330 Justice Ginsburg, went on to disagree, resist, persist, 09:25.330 --> 09:29.410 not concur, and dissent - which means disagree - 09:29.410 --> 09:31.880 and dissent her way into big things. 09:31.880 --> 09:37.100 Also to agree, support, lift up, and defend the idea she believed in. 09:37.100 --> 09:38.780 She went to college. 09:38.780 --> 09:42.490 She became a lawyer, a professor of law, a judge, 09:42.490 --> 09:45.250 and a Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, 09:45.250 --> 09:47.770 the highest court in our nation. 09:47.770 --> 09:50.540 Justice Ginsburg, I know you didn't sail 09:50.540 --> 09:53.920 through all these accomplishments without challenges, 09:53.920 --> 09:56.310 so I do want to talk to you about your school days 09:56.310 --> 09:57.920 and some of those challenges. 09:57.920 --> 10:01.710 But first, let's make sure everyone understands the job 10:01.710 --> 10:03.530 that you do today. 10:03.530 --> 10:06.940 So, will you tell these students something about the role 10:06.940 --> 10:11.820 of the Supreme Court, how it works? 10:11.820 --> 10:14.070 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: What does the Supreme Court do? 10:14.070 --> 10:18.440 The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land 10:18.440 --> 10:23.210 to decide questions involving federal laws. 10:23.210 --> 10:30.620 That means laws passed by Congress, or the Constitution 10:30.620 --> 10:35.460 of the United States, which is our highest law. 10:35.460 --> 10:42.300 And if any law passed by Congress is in conflict with the Constitution, 10:42.300 --> 10:45.700 the Constitution prevails. 10:45.700 --> 10:52.000 So, our job is to say what the national law is. 10:52.000 --> 10:56.970 Sometimes, Congress writes statutes that are very dense, 10:56.970 --> 11:02.350 not easy to understand, and people disagree about what they mean. 11:02.350 --> 11:07.430 So we interpret statutes, laws passed by Congress, 11:07.430 --> 11:15.920 and our highest law, the U.S. Constitution. 11:15.920 --> 11:19.460 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And there are nine Justices normally, 11:19.460 --> 11:23.120 and there is a Chief Justice, currently Chief Justice Roberts. 11:23.120 --> 11:26.160 So, does the Chief Justice decide what the decision will be 11:26.160 --> 11:29.190 and the rest of you just go along with him? 11:29.190 --> 11:32.980 [laughter] 11:32.980 --> 11:34.810 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: The way it works is this. 11:34.810 --> 11:39.560 We spend lots and lots of time, hours and hours, 11:39.560 --> 11:46.030 reading about the cases that are then argued before the Court. 11:46.030 --> 11:47.330 We start sitting ... 11:47.330 --> 11:52.190 this Monday coming up, we'll sit for two weeks. 11:52.190 --> 11:57.210 And on Wednesday, we'll all meet together to talk about cases 11:57.210 --> 11:58.510 that were argued on Monday. 11:58.510 --> 12:01.890 And then we meet on Friday to talk 12:01.890 --> 12:04.760 about the Tuesday and Wednesday cases. 12:04.760 --> 12:08.580 We go around the table; the Chief Justice speaks first, 12:08.580 --> 12:12.570 but he has only one vote as the rest of us do. 12:12.570 --> 12:18.320 We go around in seniority order, and when each one 12:18.320 --> 12:22.020 of us has said how we think the case should come out, 12:22.020 --> 12:27.180 sometimes we talk across the table. 12:27.180 --> 12:32.240 When all of us have given our opinion 12:32.240 --> 12:36.850 on how the case should come out, if the Chief Justice is 12:36.850 --> 12:40.910 in the majority, he will say who writes the opinion. 12:40.910 --> 12:47.870 And if he's not in the majority, then the most senior Justice who is, 12:47.870 --> 12:53.820 nowadays that's often Justice Kennedy, will assign the opinion. 12:53.820 --> 12:57.480 And then we write opinions. 12:57.480 --> 13:01.870 That's the biggest difference, I think, between the way courts work 13:01.870 --> 13:04.690 and the way the legislature, Congress, works. 13:04.690 --> 13:09.270 If you're a member of Congress, you can just vote "yea" or "nay," yes 13:09.270 --> 13:13.650 or no, but we can't do just that. 13:13.650 --> 13:18.530 We have to write our reasons for every decision we reach. 13:18.530 --> 13:23.370 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And that is why we end up with volumes and volumes 13:23.370 --> 13:25.460 of written opinions from the Supreme Court, 13:25.460 --> 13:28.820 and that creates part of our law. 13:28.820 --> 13:32.950 Now, let's go from the Court back to your school days. 13:32.950 --> 13:35.950 We just heard that your neighborhood in Brooklyn was full of immigrants 13:35.950 --> 13:37.590 and children of immigrants. 13:37.590 --> 13:40.350 Your father was an immigrant from Russia. 13:40.350 --> 13:42.910 What type of work did your parents do? 13:42.910 --> 13:45.500 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: My mother was a bookkeeper 13:45.500 --> 13:48.640 in the New York garment district, 13:48.640 --> 13:52.730 and my father was a manufacturer of fur coats. 13:52.730 --> 13:54.030 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Of fur coats. 13:54.030 --> 13:57.590 And as parents, would you say they were strict? 13:57.590 --> 13:59.670 Just wondering. 13:59.670 --> 14:02.950 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: My mother was very strict. 14:02.950 --> 14:06.730 My father spoiled me. 14:06.730 --> 14:10.450 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And what did you like to do as a girl hanging 14:10.450 --> 14:12.550 out with other kids in your neighborhood? 14:12.550 --> 14:16.570 What types of games and did you ever get into mischief? 14:16.570 --> 14:18.740 Were you a good, good girl? 14:18.740 --> 14:21.820 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Games first ... 14:21.820 --> 14:25.120 jump rope, stoop ball. 14:25.120 --> 14:27.630 Mischief? Climbing garage roofs. 14:27.630 --> 14:32.790 The way the neighborhood was, 14:32.790 --> 14:37.050 you could go from one garage to the other. 14:37.050 --> 14:43.870 I don't think that my parents were very happy about my doing that. 14:43.870 --> 14:51.410 And then later, there was skating and bicycle riding. 14:51.410 --> 14:56.170 And when the weather was warm, going to the beach 14:56.170 --> 15:01.100 in a place called Coney Island in Brooklyn. 15:01.100 --> 15:02.400 >> DEBBIE LEVY: How would you get there? 15:02.400 --> 15:04.800 How'd you get to Coney Island? 15:04.800 --> 15:11.550 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Sometimes by bicycle, sometimes by bus. 15:11.550 --> 15:14.640 >> DEBBIE LEVY: In my reading, I mentioned some classes at school 15:14.640 --> 15:17.080 that you were good in and some that you were less good in. 15:17.080 --> 15:23.220 I didn't get to talk about Home Ec, that is, sewing and cooking class. 15:23.220 --> 15:25.200 You were required to take sewing 15:25.200 --> 15:27.800 and cooking class as a girl, weren't you? 15:27.800 --> 15:29.590 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: All the girls were, yes. 15:29.590 --> 15:32.210 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Did the boys take sewing and cooking? 15:32.210 --> 15:33.510 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Oh, no, no. 15:33.510 --> 15:34.810 The boys took shop. 15:34.810 --> 15:40.100 The boys worked with saws and they made things out of wood, 15:40.100 --> 15:44.770 and the girls made chocolate pudding. 15:44.770 --> 15:47.900 [laughter] Which, one time, instead of reaching 15:47.900 --> 15:51.580 for the sugar, I reached for the salt. 15:51.580 --> 15:52.890 And we had to eat ... 15:52.890 --> 15:56.680 at the end of the class we had to eat whatever we made. 15:56.680 --> 16:01.410 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Well, I was going to ask how did that go for you, 16:01.410 --> 16:05.140 but I think you just told us how that went for you. 16:05.140 --> 16:08.970 Also, I know that you enjoy, 16:08.970 --> 16:12.450 and enjoyed when you were a girl as well, music. 16:12.450 --> 16:17.980 I know that you very much enjoy opera today, and I also understand 16:17.980 --> 16:20.310 that you were introduced to opera at a young age, 16:20.310 --> 16:22.950 about the age that you children are. 16:22.950 --> 16:26.150 But in school, there was no opera class, so will you tell us 16:26.150 --> 16:30.170 about your chorus class and your participation there? 16:30.170 --> 16:37.000 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, in that class, all the children were divided 16:37.000 --> 16:42.930 into two groups, and one group was called the Robins, 16:42.930 --> 16:45.440 and the Robins could sing. 16:45.440 --> 16:48.660 And the other group was called the Sparrows, 16:48.660 --> 16:56.940 and Sparrows were told never to sing out, only to mouth the words. 16:56.940 --> 17:00.270 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you follow that rule? 17:00.270 --> 17:03.030 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: In the chorus class? 17:03.030 --> 17:05.620 I had no choice but to do it. 17:05.620 --> 17:08.980 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you ever sing just for pleasure, for yourself, 17:08.980 --> 17:12.180 after you were told you were just a sparrow? 17:12.180 --> 17:13.480 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Oh, yeah. 17:13.480 --> 17:18.050 In the shower and in my dreams. 17:18.050 --> 17:25.390 But I should say that I did play the piano, 17:25.390 --> 17:31.220 and then I also played the cello, which is a very nice instrument, 17:31.220 --> 17:33.960 so I could be in the school orchestra. 17:33.960 --> 17:38.080 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And when you were a little older, maybe in junior high 17:38.080 --> 17:42.110 or high school, what other activities did you participate in? 17:42.110 --> 17:44.170 So, you were in the school orchestra; 17:44.170 --> 17:46.900 did you have any after school activities? 17:46.900 --> 17:51.520 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, I was what we called "a twirler." 17:51.520 --> 17:53.900 Do you know what a baton is? 17:53.900 --> 17:56.860 Have you seen them at sporting events? 17:56.860 --> 17:59.910 So, I went to every football game, 17:59.910 --> 18:03.990 and at halftime we twirled the batons. 18:03.990 --> 18:05.290 >> DEBBIE LEVY: You twirled. 18:05.290 --> 18:06.640 Were you good at it? 18:06.640 --> 18:07.940 Were you a good twirler? 18:07.940 --> 18:09.240 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yeah. 18:09.240 --> 18:12.610 I was pretty good at it. 18:12.610 --> 18:17.190 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Justice Ginsburg, when you went on to college 18:17.190 --> 18:19.860 in the 1950s, many people assumed 18:19.860 --> 18:23.520 that girls were there only to find husbands. 18:23.520 --> 18:27.210 What was that like knowing that that's what a lot of people 18:27.210 --> 18:32.470 around you thought when they saw you in college? 18:32.470 --> 18:34.570 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I went to a school in New York state. 18:34.570 --> 18:39.540 It was called Cornell University, and in that school, 18:39.540 --> 18:43.400 there were four boys to every girl. 18:43.400 --> 18:47.520 So yes, that was a school where parents would send their girls 18:47.520 --> 18:52.130 because if you couldn't find a husband at Cornell, then, 18:52.130 --> 18:59.130 four-to-one, you were hopeless. 18:59.130 --> 19:05.990 >> DEBBIE LEVY: You did meet a young man there named Marty Ginsburg. 19:05.990 --> 19:11.130 Did he also think you were in college to find a husband? 19:11.130 --> 19:19.250 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Maybe he was in college to find a wife. 19:19.250 --> 19:21.420 Anyway, one of the reasons I loved him 19:21.420 --> 19:27.180 so much is he cared that I had a brain. 19:27.180 --> 19:30.610 And so we were very good friends. 19:30.610 --> 19:34.570 We talked about everything. 19:34.570 --> 19:39.460 He would ask me what classes I was taking 19:39.460 --> 19:46.670 and then he would sign up for the same classes. 19:46.670 --> 19:51.500 Something I didn't know then but I soon found out ... 19:51.500 --> 19:56.590 I already told you that cooking was not my strong point, 19:56.590 --> 19:58.540 but my husband was a great chef. 19:58.540 --> 20:03.040 >> DEBBIE LEVY: So, who did the cooking in your family? 20:03.040 --> 20:07.420 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: So it started out, I was the everyday cook 20:07.420 --> 20:10.870 and my husband was the weekend and "company" cook. 20:10.870 --> 20:14.490 I was never allowed to cook for guests. 20:14.490 --> 20:19.790 I had one cookbook, it was called "60 Minute Chef," 20:19.790 --> 20:23.930 and that meant nothing took longer than one hour 20:23.930 --> 20:28.150 from the time you got home 'til the dinner was on the table. 20:28.150 --> 20:32.180 I had seven things that I made, and when I got up to number seven, 20:32.180 --> 20:35.930 we went back to number one. 20:35.930 --> 20:39.550 So my daughter, when she was about high school age, 20:39.550 --> 20:42.310 noticed an enormous difference between her daddy's cooking 20:42.310 --> 20:44.640 and her mommy's cooking, 20:44.640 --> 20:48.730 and she decided daddy should be the cook every day, 20:48.730 --> 20:52.360 not just on weekends. 20:52.360 --> 20:55.120 And so it has been now for ... 20:55.120 --> 20:58.570 well, he died in 2010. 20:58.570 --> 21:03.210 But my daughter, because she was responsible for my husband taking 21:03.210 --> 21:07.430 over the kitchen, now comes once a month to cook for me. 21:07.430 --> 21:09.390 And she fills the freezer with food, 21:09.390 --> 21:13.380 and then when the supply is finished, 21:13.380 --> 21:15.520 she comes back and cooks some more. 21:15.520 --> 21:17.800 >> DEBBIE LEVY: That's a very nice thing for a daughter to do. 21:17.800 --> 21:19.100 Is she a good cook, too? 21:19.100 --> 21:22.050 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yeah, she learned from the master. 21:22.050 --> 21:26.470 >> DEBBIE LEVY: I'll add that Justice Ginsburg's daughter, 21:26.470 --> 21:30.120 Jane Ginsburg, is also a professor at Columbia Law School. 21:30.120 --> 21:35.380 So she cooks, teaches law, and does a few other things. 21:35.380 --> 21:40.590 Today, things have changed from when you were in college more 21:40.590 --> 21:43.240 and in high school and younger. 21:43.240 --> 21:48.270 More people understand that girls and boys both go to school to learn, 21:48.270 --> 21:50.530 to be able to grow up to do interesting work, 21:50.530 --> 21:54.120 and to take control of their own lives as adults 21:54.120 --> 21:56.210 because they have an education. 21:56.210 --> 22:00.390 But, Justice Ginsburg, what would you like the students to learn 22:00.390 --> 22:05.680 or to understand from your own less-than-equal experience 22:05.680 --> 22:09.680 as a girl and young woman? 22:09.680 --> 22:11.510 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I would like the students to know 22:11.510 --> 22:15.520 that they can be free to be you and me. 22:15.520 --> 22:21.270 That is, free to do whatever you have the talent and are willing 22:21.270 --> 22:27.400 to work hard enough to do; that there are no closed doors. 22:27.400 --> 22:29.370 So, it used to be ... 22:29.370 --> 22:32.450 you heard Debbie tell you that there was a time 22:32.450 --> 22:37.780 when women were not allowed to be pilots in planes. 22:37.780 --> 22:40.320 Men were not allowed to be nurses. 22:40.320 --> 22:48.640 Now, there are no such restrictions anymore, so a girl can grow 22:48.640 --> 22:54.360 up thinking, "Whatever I like to do, if I'm willing to work for it enough 22:54.360 --> 22:59.790 to achieve the learning that I need to do it, I could do it 22:59.790 --> 23:07.450 and nobody will say - as they often said to me - 'We really don't want 23:07.450 --> 23:12.230 to have any lady lawyers in this place'." 23:12.230 --> 23:17.410 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Well, you became a lady lawyer and you specialized 23:17.410 --> 23:24.830 in cases where you were fighting against unequal treatment of men 23:24.830 --> 23:26.810 and women, girls and boys. 23:26.810 --> 23:29.340 And in the cases you brought, you argued to Judges 23:29.340 --> 23:33.030 that a person's choices shouldn't be limited just because she happened 23:33.030 --> 23:36.500 to be born a girl, happened to be born a boy. 23:36.500 --> 23:39.930 Can you tell us why you felt, 23:39.930 --> 23:42.810 and still feel I assume, so strongly about this? 23:42.810 --> 23:44.110 Tell us why ... 23:44.110 --> 23:48.070 And also, if I can make a two-fer question here, 23:48.070 --> 23:50.450 tell us why you thought society had 23:50.450 --> 23:56.930 such rules limiting what girls could do. 23:56.930 --> 24:00.310 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I thought it was a tremendous waste 24:00.310 --> 24:03.440 of people's talents. 24:03.440 --> 24:09.660 Boys and girls have a range of talents, 24:09.660 --> 24:13.460 and to say that boys can only do this and girls can only do that, 24:13.460 --> 24:16.510 was just wasting the talent of a lot of girls 24:16.510 --> 24:18.090 who could do what boys were doing, 24:18.090 --> 24:22.240 and boys who could do what girls were doing. 24:22.240 --> 24:25.740 So I thought everybody would be better off 24:25.740 --> 24:32.740 if people could do whatever it is that they have the talent to do, 24:32.740 --> 24:38.990 and it shouldn't matter whether they're a boy or a girl. 24:38.990 --> 24:42.610 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Why do you think those rules, those limitations, 24:42.610 --> 24:45.850 were put on girls, for example? 24:45.850 --> 24:51.000 Why did society say, "No, young Ruth, you shouldn't be a lawyer." 24:51.000 --> 24:54.450 Or to somebody else, "You shouldn't be an airline pilot 24:54.450 --> 24:56.550 because you're a woman." 24:56.550 --> 24:58.250 Why do you think? 24:58.250 --> 25:03.190 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Well, some people said all those "no's" were 25:03.190 --> 25:06.910 to protect women, so they couldn't be pilots 25:06.910 --> 25:11.870 because that was a dangerous occupation. 25:11.870 --> 25:14.720 The important thing to understand, 25:14.720 --> 25:20.830 it turned out women were not really protected. 25:20.830 --> 25:27.090 Instead, as one Supreme Court Justice said, they were in a cage 25:27.090 --> 25:34.960 and couldn't get out to do what they wanted to do 25:34.960 --> 25:41.070 and were ready, willing, and able to do. 25:41.070 --> 25:44.890 >> DEBBIE LEVY: I started out talking about you as someone 25:44.890 --> 25:47.670 who has disagreed with unfairness and with discrimination, 25:47.670 --> 25:51.260 and with inequality since you were a girl, so I would say 25:51.260 --> 25:54.360 that you are an awesome arguer. 25:54.360 --> 25:56.670 I think you're a champion disagreer, 25:56.670 --> 25:59.910 so now I'd like to get back to that in this way. 25:59.910 --> 26:02.670 Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia 26:02.670 --> 26:06.150 and you disagreed very frequently on legal matters. 26:06.150 --> 26:10.560 And students, I want to make sure you understand that Justice Scalia, 26:10.560 --> 26:14.580 who was one of the other Justices on the Court, sadly, died last year. 26:14.580 --> 26:17.460 But when he was alive, the two of them ... 26:17.460 --> 26:18.760 oh my goodness. 26:18.760 --> 26:22.930 They disagreed strongly on legal matters. 26:22.930 --> 26:27.660 Will you tell students, first, about the back and forth that went 26:27.660 --> 26:29.790 on between you and Justice Scalia? 26:29.790 --> 26:31.210 That is, did you listen to each other? 26:31.210 --> 26:34.940 Did you just show each other the hand and say 'don't talk to me?' 26:34.940 --> 26:39.660 How was that? 26:39.660 --> 26:43.180 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: When Justice Scalia and I disagreed, and I wrote, 26:43.180 --> 26:47.040 say, the opinion of the Court and he dissented, or he wrote the opinion 26:47.040 --> 26:53.160 of the Court and I dissented, my opinion was always much better 26:53.160 --> 26:57.090 in the end because he pointed out all the weak spots, 26:57.090 --> 27:03.480 and then I was able to fix them and make the opinion stronger. 27:03.480 --> 27:06.180 Justice Scalia was very good at grammar. 27:06.180 --> 27:09.690 His mother was a grade school grammar teacher 27:09.690 --> 27:12.440 and his father taught Latin. 27:12.440 --> 27:18.240 So if I made mistakes in grammar, he would call me on the telephone; 27:18.240 --> 27:20.720 wouldn't tell the rest of my colleagues, and he's say, "Ruth, 27:20.720 --> 27:30.920 you know, you really should use plural here instead of singular." 27:30.920 --> 27:37.500 And I would sometimes tell him, "Your dissent is so overheated, 27:37.500 --> 27:42.240 you're going to lose people that you might otherwise persuade 27:42.240 --> 27:46.220 if you moderated the tone." 27:46.220 --> 27:51.230 He didn't always listen when I said that. 27:51.230 --> 27:54.200 But I loved him and I've missed him. 27:54.200 --> 28:00.990 One reason is, he had a wonderful sense of humor and he made me laugh. 28:00.990 --> 28:02.290 >> DEBBIE LEVY: So the two 28:02.290 --> 28:06.040 of you disagreed strenuously, but were great friends. 28:06.040 --> 28:07.340 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes. 28:07.340 --> 28:13.940 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Since we're here in a great library, and I know that you 28:13.940 --> 28:17.200 as a girl went to the library in Brooklyn with your mother, 28:17.200 --> 28:21.380 I want to ask why was reading important to you as a child, 28:21.380 --> 28:25.710 and why do you think it's important for our students here, reading? 28:25.710 --> 28:27.950 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Because it opened vistas to me 28:27.950 --> 28:34.990 about far away places and people who were different. 28:34.990 --> 28:38.630 My mother would leave me at the library and I'd pick 28:38.630 --> 28:41.370 out five books to take home. 28:41.370 --> 28:44.630 And we'd check them out and bring them back the next week, 28:44.630 --> 28:47.930 and find more books. 28:47.930 --> 28:53.250 Something that I loved that was not real, Greek mythology. 28:53.250 --> 28:56.260 You mentioned Athena, the goddess of wisdom. 28:56.260 --> 29:00.310 I love to read about the Greek gods. 29:00.310 --> 29:01.800 >> DEBBIE LEVY: I wonder, what is it 29:01.800 --> 29:04.700 about the Greek gods and mythology ... 29:04.700 --> 29:06.480 Percy Jackson, you all; right? 29:06.480 --> 29:08.160 Weren't we talking about that before? 29:08.160 --> 29:12.140 What is it about that that attracted you so? 29:12.140 --> 29:13.580 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Well, for one thing, 29:13.580 --> 29:17.440 there was more equality among the Greek gods 29:17.440 --> 29:19.660 with Athena the goddess of wisdom. 29:19.660 --> 29:25.370 >> DEBBIE LEVY: There was equality among the gods and goddesses. 29:25.370 --> 29:26.670 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes. 29:26.670 --> 29:27.970 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And I know that you have 29:27.970 --> 29:31.280 to read a great many legal papers for work, 29:31.280 --> 29:35.390 but do you find time to read for pleasure? 29:35.390 --> 29:37.680 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, I wish I could do a lot more 29:37.680 --> 29:43.050 but I always take home a lot of work 29:43.050 --> 29:45.820 from the Court; a lot of reading to do. 29:45.820 --> 29:48.200 But the last thing I do before I fall asleep, 29:48.200 --> 29:53.290 if I've done a good job, I did all my homework, and I get into bed 29:53.290 --> 29:56.340 with a good book and read a few pages, 29:56.340 --> 29:57.970 usually fall asleep before ... 29:57.970 --> 30:04.180 >> DEBBIE LEVY: I think that's a good habit. 30:04.180 --> 30:10.700 Much as we love to read, a person cannot read all the time. 30:10.700 --> 30:14.230 Sometimes, one has to get up and move around. 30:14.230 --> 30:17.670 And you, Justice Ginsburg, are known to spend some time 30:17.670 --> 30:20.430 at the gym in the Supreme Court. 30:20.430 --> 30:24.440 You're an exercise buff, and I think the students would be interested 30:24.440 --> 30:26.990 in your exercise routine. 30:26.990 --> 30:31.070 Can you talk to them about it? 30:31.070 --> 30:33.020 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Tonight, I will meet my ... 30:33.020 --> 30:36.110 we call him "personal trainer," 30:36.110 --> 30:41.500 and we will spend an hour together doing all kinds of things ... 30:41.500 --> 30:55.560 lifting weights, doing pushups, planks, using the elliptical glider. 30:55.560 --> 31:01.660 I started working with a personal trainer in 1999, 31:01.660 --> 31:04.790 long before you were born. 31:04.790 --> 31:08.870 And you know, the reason I started was because I had been very sick. 31:08.870 --> 31:16.060 I had a disease called cancer, and when I was finally 31:16.060 --> 31:20.770 through all the treatments, I was not in very good shape. 31:20.770 --> 31:22.840 I was very weak. 31:22.840 --> 31:26.220 So my husband said, "You'd better get yourself a personal trainer." 31:26.220 --> 31:27.520 Which I did. 31:27.520 --> 31:30.210 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And you've been exercising seriously ever 31:30.210 --> 31:31.510 since then. 31:31.510 --> 31:32.810 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes. 31:32.810 --> 31:34.110 >> DEBBIE LEVY: That's a long time. 31:34.110 --> 31:35.410 Now, I think I have time 31:35.410 --> 31:39.610 for a couple more questions before opening it up to you. 31:39.610 --> 31:45.810 I have two final ones, and that is, what is the best advice 31:45.810 --> 31:51.950 that you can give us on how to react when someone argues 31:51.950 --> 31:55.020 with you by saying mean things? 31:55.020 --> 32:02.330 That is, attacks you rather than engaging or going after your ideas? 32:02.330 --> 32:08.750 What about when it gets personal as arguments sometimes do? 32:08.750 --> 32:11.910 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: My best advice is to tune out. 32:11.910 --> 32:14.080 Don't try to argue back. 32:14.080 --> 32:16.090 Don't try to be mean in return. 32:16.090 --> 32:24.680 That's not going to get you anyplace. 32:24.680 --> 32:29.950 Try to use the good reasons you have to persuade people, and for people 32:29.950 --> 32:35.600 who don't want to listen, just tune them out. 32:35.600 --> 32:40.170 >> DEBBIE LEVY: And another question about advice, 32:40.170 --> 32:45.380 what is the best advice that you can give us for changing things 32:45.380 --> 32:48.710 in the world as you have changed things in the world as a lawyer 32:48.710 --> 32:51.240 and as a Supreme Court Justice? 32:51.240 --> 32:55.080 We're not all going to be lawyers and Supreme Court Justices, 32:55.080 --> 32:58.250 but what's your best advice for how we can change things 32:58.250 --> 33:04.470 in our own communities when we think that they are wrong? 33:04.470 --> 33:07.150 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Join together with other people who feel 33:07.150 --> 33:10.580 like you because there's strength in numbers. 33:10.580 --> 33:13.650 If you just try to do things all by yourself, 33:13.650 --> 33:15.590 you're not going to get very far. 33:15.590 --> 33:24.830 You need a team to work with you to achieve what you think is important. 33:24.830 --> 33:26.130 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Thank you. 33:26.130 --> 33:30.360 Now, I could go on and on and on, but I don't want to tread on time 33:30.360 --> 33:33.180 that we've got for student questions. 33:33.180 --> 33:37.410 So, may I open it up for student questions and then ... 33:37.410 --> 33:48.430 if you don't have any, I'll just keep asking my questions. 33:48.430 --> 33:50.040 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Looks like we have one. 33:50.040 --> 33:52.690 >> AUDIENCE: Were you involved in the Women's Rights March? 33:52.690 --> 33:54.330 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Were you involved 33:54.330 --> 33:57.520 in the Women's Rights March, the one in January? 33:57.520 --> 33:59.300 That's your question? 33:59.300 --> 34:02.220 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I wasn't in the March itself, 34:02.220 --> 34:11.520 but I met with people who were in the March, and I had dinner 34:11.520 --> 34:16.390 with them the night before. 34:16.390 --> 34:19.860 But many people I know ... 34:19.860 --> 34:22.980 my granddaughter was in the March. 34:22.980 --> 34:30.890 People who work for the government tend not to be in marches, 34:30.890 --> 34:38.100 but I thought it was a wonderful thing because it was so peaceful. 34:38.100 --> 34:45.380 It wasn't at all rowdy; there were no episodes of violence. 34:45.380 --> 34:51.870 There were just people, as I said before, who were on the same team, 34:51.870 --> 34:57.170 standing up and saying women have a lot to contribute to this country, 34:57.170 --> 34:59.300 and don't shove them aside. 34:59.300 --> 35:07.380 >> DEBBIE LEVY: How about right behind you? 35:07.380 --> 35:12.290 >> AUDIENCE: What year did you start at the Judicial Branch? 35:12.290 --> 35:14.420 >> DEBBIE LEVY: What year did you start in the Judicial Branch? 35:14.420 --> 35:16.220 So, when did you first become a judge? 35:16.220 --> 35:21.780 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I first became a judge in 1980. 35:21.780 --> 35:26.730 I was not on the Supreme Court, but I was on the U.S. Court of Appeals 35:26.730 --> 35:29.350 for the District of Columbia circuit 35:29.350 --> 35:34.370 at the U.S. courthouse on Constitution Avenue. 35:34.370 --> 35:39.160 I was there for 13 years, and I was appointed to that Court 35:39.160 --> 35:41.430 by President Jimmy Carter. 35:41.430 --> 35:44.830 And then I was appointed to the Supreme Court 35:44.830 --> 35:48.300 by President Bill Clinton. 35:48.300 --> 36:00.680 >> AUDIENCE: Was it your dream to become a Supreme Court Justice? 36:00.680 --> 36:02.290 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Did I dream to become a Supreme ... 36:02.290 --> 36:03.590 ? 36:03.590 --> 36:04.890 >> DEBBIE LEVY: That's the question, was it your dream 36:04.890 --> 36:09.390 to become a Supreme Court Justice? 36:09.390 --> 36:14.250 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: People of my advanced age, women who went 36:14.250 --> 36:18.460 to law school when I did, dreamed of getting a job 36:18.460 --> 36:21.340 in the law, any job in the law. 36:21.340 --> 36:29.690 There were no women judges so it would have been an impossible dream. 36:29.690 --> 36:31.780 In fact, the first woman appointed 36:31.780 --> 36:38.420 to a federal trial bench was appointed by Truman in 1948, 36:38.420 --> 36:45.630 and there had only been one woman on a U.S. Court of Appeals; 36:45.630 --> 36:51.320 she was appointed by Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1934. 36:51.320 --> 36:57.500 And when she retired, there were none again. 36:57.500 --> 37:00.040 So it would have been ... 37:00.040 --> 37:06.140 it could be something that was beyond the realm of possibility. 37:06.140 --> 37:08.660 In fact, I didn't dream about becoming a judge 37:08.660 --> 37:12.320 until Jimmy Carter became President. 37:12.320 --> 37:17.730 And the reason I started then is, he looked around at people 37:17.730 --> 37:22.080 who were judges in the United States and he said, "You know, 37:22.080 --> 37:26.290 they all look like me, and that's not how the great United 37:26.290 --> 37:27.620 States looks." 37:27.620 --> 37:29.300 When he said "they all look like me," 37:29.300 --> 37:33.010 he meant they were white and they were male. 37:33.010 --> 37:39.170 So he was determined to appoint members of minority groups and women 37:39.170 --> 37:42.200 in numbers to the federal bench. 37:42.200 --> 37:48.190 So he appointed about 25 women to the federal trial Court, 37:48.190 --> 37:55.190 and 11 to Courts of Appeals, and I was one of the lucky 11. 37:55.190 --> 37:59.300 >> AUDIENCE: Why did you want to become a Supreme Court Justice? 37:59.300 --> 38:01.720 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Why did you want to become a Supreme Court Justice? 38:01.720 --> 38:04.060 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Because I think it's the best 38:04.060 --> 38:10.300 and the hardest job a law-trained person can have. 38:10.300 --> 38:15.450 We have no cases that are easy because most of the cases 38:15.450 --> 38:19.170 that we hear are cases where other courts ... 38:19.170 --> 38:22.730 I'd better get myself another Constitution; 38:22.730 --> 38:29.450 this one's falling apart ... 38:29.450 --> 38:34.970 So, my job is to do a lot of reading, 38:34.970 --> 38:39.280 a lot of thinking, a lot of writing. 38:39.280 --> 38:44.310 It's hard, but it's very satisfying when I finish an opinion 38:44.310 --> 38:47.790 and I can say, "Yes, that's good. 38:47.790 --> 38:56.910 I hope it will persuade the people who read it." 38:56.910 --> 39:01.520 >> AUDIENCE: Did you actually write the little girl [inaudible]? 39:01.520 --> 39:03.590 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Can you repeat that? 39:03.590 --> 39:07.450 >> AUDIENCE: Did you actually write the little girl who dressed 39:07.450 --> 39:11.370 like you a special message? 39:11.370 --> 39:16.220 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Oh, did you actually write the little girl who dressed 39:16.220 --> 39:18.500 like you a special message? 39:18.500 --> 39:22.790 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, I certainly did. 39:22.790 --> 39:27.090 Her name is Michelle. 39:27.090 --> 39:29.910 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Michelle, for those of you who are unfamiliar with this, 39:29.910 --> 39:32.630 dressed up for her school's "Dress 39:32.630 --> 39:41.950 Like a Superhero" Day as Justice Ginsburg. 39:41.950 --> 39:49.940 >> AUDIENCE: Did you always fight for civil rights of your ... 39:49.940 --> 39:54.200 did you ever fight for civil rights to be a woman 39:54.200 --> 39:55.850 to be in the Supreme Court? 39:55.850 --> 40:01.290 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you ever fight for civil rights? 40:01.290 --> 40:04.530 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, I certainly did, 40:04.530 --> 40:09.780 and I thought it was great that I was ... 40:09.780 --> 40:15.130 people were able to come to the courts and say, 40:15.130 --> 40:25.190 what is happening is wrong and it doesn't fit with our Constitution. 40:25.190 --> 40:30.530 One of my favorite things in the Constitution is 40:30.530 --> 40:36.590 in the 14th amendment, and it's known as the 40:36.590 --> 40:38.950 "Equal Protection Clause." 40:38.950 --> 40:43.140 So, let me read to you just as it is. 40:43.140 --> 40:46.170 It says, "Nor shall any state deny 40:46.170 --> 40:58.750 to any person equal protection of the laws." 40:58.750 --> 41:02.400 And let me ask you a question in turn. 41:02.400 --> 41:12.390 The word "equal" becomes part of the Constitution in the year 1868. 41:12.390 --> 41:18.210 The main part of the Constitution was written in 1787. 41:18.210 --> 41:26.590 Now, why do you suppose the word "equal" doesn't appear until 1868? 41:26.590 --> 41:29.850 What's the answer? 41:29.850 --> 41:33.130 >> AUDIENCE: I think that it only appeared in 1868 41:33.130 --> 41:34.930 because people wasn't allowed to be like ... 41:34.930 --> 41:38.620 couldn't go to school with white people or nothing, 41:38.620 --> 41:40.750 but they couldn't learn with ... 41:40.750 --> 41:42.630 they didn't have a lot of books or nothing 41:42.630 --> 41:47.600 like the white people did, and they wasn't equal. 41:47.600 --> 41:55.400 They couldn't go to school with them or nothing. 41:55.400 --> 41:58.620 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Do you have another answer to that? 41:58.620 --> 42:02.880 Or you have a question? 42:02.880 --> 42:06.710 We'll take another, sure. 42:06.710 --> 42:10.280 >> AUDIENCE: When did she become a lawyer, and how old was she 42:10.280 --> 42:13.110 when she became a lawyer? 42:13.110 --> 42:14.690 >> DEBBIE LEVY: How old were you, Justice Ginsburg, 42:14.690 --> 42:17.990 when you became a lawyer? 42:17.990 --> 42:19.500 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: When I became a lawyer ... 42:19.500 --> 42:24.060 let's see. 42:24.060 --> 42:29.050 I was 26. 42:29.050 --> 42:34.740 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Who hasn't asked a question? 42:34.740 --> 42:42.960 >> AUDIENCE: Why did you want to stand up for equal rights? 42:42.960 --> 42:45.030 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Because I thought everybody should have a fair 42:45.030 --> 42:53.670 chance to do what they can do best, and I also thought about how I would 42:53.670 --> 42:56.370 like the world to be for my children; I have one boy 42:56.370 --> 43:00.820 and one girl, and now my grandchildren; 43:00.820 --> 43:06.270 I have four grandchildren and two step-grandchildren. 43:06.270 --> 43:12.520 Some of them are boys, some are girls, and I want the world 43:12.520 --> 43:18.350 to give them a fair chance to do whatever they want to do 43:18.350 --> 43:22.620 if they're willing to do the hard work that it takes. 43:22.620 --> 43:25.810 And nobody should be able to say, "No, you can't do this" 43:25.810 --> 43:33.830 because you're a boy or because you're a girl. 43:33.830 --> 43:38.940 >> AUDIENCE: Would you want your children 43:38.940 --> 43:42.480 to be a Supreme Court Justice? 43:42.480 --> 43:44.390 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Would you want your children 43:44.390 --> 43:46.410 to be a Supreme Court Justice? 43:46.410 --> 43:52.460 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Well, the chances for anyone 43:52.460 --> 43:57.450 to be a Supreme Court Justice are not large. 43:57.450 --> 44:01.710 There are only nine of us, and there are thousands 44:01.710 --> 44:04.390 and thousands of lawyers. 44:04.390 --> 44:09.620 I want my children to do things that they can do well 44:09.620 --> 44:11.950 and that gives them satisfaction. 44:11.950 --> 44:26.300 My daughter is a law teacher, and my son makes exquisite compact discs. 44:26.300 --> 44:33.920 He loves music, and so that's what he does. 44:33.920 --> 44:37.150 >> AUDIENCE: Do you still work at the Supreme Court? 44:37.150 --> 44:40.870 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: As soon as I leave you, I'm going to go right 44:40.870 --> 44:44.800 to my desk at the Supreme Court. 44:44.800 --> 44:46.180 >> DEBBIE LEVY: It's right across the street. 44:46.180 --> 44:49.070 It's right next door. 44:49.070 --> 44:50.880 Who hasn't asked a question? 44:50.880 --> 44:54.510 I'll let you choose. 44:54.510 --> 44:56.980 >> AUDIENCE: Is it hard for you to get 44:56.980 --> 44:59.930 through all the cases that you have? 44:59.930 --> 45:01.670 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Is it hard for you to get 45:01.670 --> 45:04.920 through all the cases that you have? 45:04.920 --> 45:09.600 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, it is, it is. 45:09.600 --> 45:13.440 It takes a lot of staying power, a lot of stamina, 45:13.440 --> 45:19.560 because sometimes I'm reading things to prepare for the cases 45:19.560 --> 45:24.480 that will be argued and I fall asleep. 45:24.480 --> 45:25.950 And then ... 45:25.950 --> 45:27.600 somebody taught me a trick. 45:27.600 --> 45:31.570 Hold a pencil, and when it drops, 45:31.570 --> 45:42.010 then you know you're falling asleep and you should wake up. 45:42.010 --> 45:46.780 >> AUDIENCE: Do you have a place where you like to work, 45:46.780 --> 45:51.900 prepare to work, when you're doing your job? 45:51.900 --> 45:54.180 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Do you have a place that you prefer to work 45:54.180 --> 45:55.480 when you're doing your job? 45:55.480 --> 45:59.760 And I imagine we mean at the Court or maybe not at the Court. 45:59.760 --> 46:01.060 Where do you like to work? 46:01.060 --> 46:06.430 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: At the Court I have a very nice office. 46:06.430 --> 46:10.110 At home, I work in the bedroom and I've always done 46:10.110 --> 46:13.550 that from the time we had a small apartment ... 46:13.550 --> 46:17.320 there's the bed, and there's a writing table, 46:17.320 --> 46:24.910 and there's bookshelves, and that's my favorite place to work. 46:24.910 --> 46:27.280 My husband used to work on the dining room table 46:27.280 --> 46:29.520 and I worked in the bedroom. 46:29.520 --> 46:32.230 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Anybody else? 46:32.230 --> 46:37.840 I don't want to ignore the people behind you. 46:37.840 --> 46:47.700 >> AUDIENCE: On your cases did none of the Justices supported you, 46:47.700 --> 46:56.310 did you have to agree on the case, or no? 46:56.310 --> 46:59.240 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Do I have to agree? 46:59.240 --> 47:04.000 Five people have to agree in order for the case to be decided. 47:04.000 --> 47:08.530 So, if five people can agree, then the Court will make a decision. 47:08.530 --> 47:13.340 But the four people who don't agree can write the reasons why they don't 47:13.340 --> 47:20.950 agree, and that's what's called "a dissenting opinion." 47:20.950 --> 47:24.500 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Anybody on this side? 47:24.500 --> 47:28.540 We can stick with ... 47:28.540 --> 47:31.250 yes? 47:31.250 --> 47:34.600 >> AUDIENCE: Did you break any world records? 47:34.600 --> 47:41.410 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you break any world records? 47:41.410 --> 47:42.710 Hmm. 47:42.710 --> 47:44.010 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I can say, one. 47:44.010 --> 47:49.050 I am the longest sitting Jewish Justice. 47:49.050 --> 47:54.830 There have been in history eight Jewish Justices, 47:54.830 --> 48:00.470 and just this month I am at the Court longer 48:00.470 --> 48:02.410 than Justice Frankfurter. 48:02.410 --> 48:05.180 >> DEBBIE LEVY: Mazel tov. 48:05.180 --> 48:06.480 [applause] 48:06.480 --> 48:20.050 >> Who has not had a question? 48:20.050 --> 48:21.870 >> AUDIENCE: Did you ever ... 48:21.870 --> 48:28.580 were you in the Supreme Court when the Lovings was 48:28.580 --> 48:33.390 in the Supreme Court trying to get their rights? 48:33.390 --> 48:35.030 >> DEBBIE LEVY: When who was in the Supreme Court? 48:35.030 --> 48:36.330 >> AUDIENCE: The Lovings. 48:36.330 --> 48:39.530 >> DEBBIE LEVY: The Lovings, as in Loving against Virginia. 48:39.530 --> 48:43.030 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I was a lawyer at the time of Loving 48:43.030 --> 48:51.830 against Virginia, and I knew one of the lawyers that represented them 48:51.830 --> 48:55.770 because the American Civil Liberties Union took their case 48:55.770 --> 48:57.070 to the Supreme Court. 48:57.070 --> 49:07.540 There's a wonderful movie called "Loving" about them. 49:07.540 --> 49:12.110 >> AUDIENCE: How long was you working at the Supreme Court? 49:12.110 --> 49:16.860 >> DEBBIE LEVY: How long have you been working at the Supreme Court? 49:16.860 --> 49:27.970 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Almost 24 years. 49:27.970 --> 49:29.270 [laughter] 49:29.270 --> 49:32.730 Longer than any other job I've ever held. 49:32.730 --> 49:38.030 I was a law teacher for 17 years, Court of Appeals judge for 13 years, 49:38.030 --> 49:45.610 Supreme Court Justice for almost 24 years. 49:45.610 --> 49:48.950 >> AUDIENCE: What was your first case based on? 49:48.950 --> 49:53.340 >> DEBBIE LEVY: What was your first case based on? 49:53.340 --> 49:55.410 Maybe the first ... 49:55.410 --> 49:58.310 well, either a first Supreme Court case or some other case 49:58.310 --> 50:01.270 that didn't go to the Supreme Court. 50:01.270 --> 50:09.040 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: The first case that went to the Supreme Court 50:09.040 --> 50:14.600 where I wrote the brief, it was kind of a sad case. 50:14.600 --> 50:25.930 It was a couple who had a young son, and then the mother 50:25.930 --> 50:30.450 and father didn't get on because they got divorced. 50:30.450 --> 50:35.580 And the mother took care of the child when he was very young, 50:35.580 --> 50:40.360 but when the boy was a teenager, his father said, "Family Court judge, 50:40.360 --> 50:43.180 give the boy to me because he has to be prepared 50:43.180 --> 50:45.250 to live in a man's world." 50:45.250 --> 50:49.090 His mother did not want the father to have the child, 50:49.090 --> 50:52.180 but the judge ruled in favor of the father. 50:52.180 --> 50:59.810 The mother, sadly, was right because the boy became very sad, depressed. 50:59.810 --> 51:01.120 And one day, he took out one 51:01.120 --> 51:05.690 of his father's many guns and he killed himself. 51:05.690 --> 51:08.540 So his mother wanted to take care of anything 51:08.540 --> 51:10.690 that he left behind; it wasn't much ... 51:10.690 --> 51:14.710 a guitar, some clothes, recordings. 51:14.710 --> 51:20.530 And the father applied, too, to be the one to take care 51:20.530 --> 51:24.330 of whatever the boy had left. 51:24.330 --> 51:29.690 And there was a law in the state, the state was Idaho. 51:29.690 --> 51:34.450 The law read, "As between two persons equally entitled 51:34.450 --> 51:41.820 to administer a decedent's estate, males must be preferred to females." 51:41.820 --> 51:45.330 And Sally Reed said, "That's wrong. 51:45.330 --> 51:49.730 Why must males be preferred to females? 51:49.730 --> 51:52.360 I can do the job of attending 51:52.360 --> 51:57.930 to my dead son's belongings at least as well." 51:57.930 --> 52:01.890 So, that was the first case that I briefed, 52:01.890 --> 52:08.070 and the Supreme Court decided that unanimously in the mother's favor. 52:08.070 --> 52:11.780 >> DEBBIE LEVY: I believe we have run out of time I'm afraid, 52:11.780 --> 52:14.940 and I just want to say, other than thank you to all of you 52:14.940 --> 52:18.980 for your excellent attention and your good questions. 52:18.980 --> 52:21.040 And of course, thank you to Justice Ginsburg, 52:21.040 --> 52:22.970 thank you to the Young Readers Center. 52:22.970 --> 52:27.190 Did you all know that it was Justice Ginsburg's birthday yesterday? 52:27.190 --> 52:28.670 Happy birthday. 52:28.670 --> 52:29.970 >> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Thank you. 52:29.970 --> 52:31.270 [applause] 52:31.270 --> 52:34.250 >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. 52:34.250 --> 52:36.600 Visit us at loc dot gov.