>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. >> Larry Appelbaum: Hi. My name is Larry Appelbaum from the Music Division here at the Library of Congress. It is with great pleasure that I'm joined by one of the great singers of our time, Grammy award winning vocal artist, Dianne Reeves. Dianne -- >> Diane Reeves: Hi. >> Larry Appelbaum: Great to see you again. >> Dianne Reeves: Glad to be here. Thank you. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah. You're here in Washington and here at the Library to give a performance tonight that's sort of focused on Ella Fitzgerald because it's her centenary year. >> Dianne Reeves: Right. >> Larry Appelbaum: Let's start -- why don't you talk to us about how you pay tribute to Ella and still stay true to yourself. >> Dianne Reeves: Well, that's the only thing that you can do because Ella did it in a certain way that is uniquely here, and the greatest lesson that I learned from here was to beat yourself. So the thing that I love about her and people always say it is the whole joy of singing, and I think tonight's performance will celebrate her joy, her courage, her ability to just jump off the edge and create in the moment and be a co-creator with her musicians. >> Larry Appelbaum: Are you going to delve into her repertoire? >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. A lot. >> Larry Appelbaum: And is there an aspect of her career that you're particularly drawn to because she had different stages? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. I think -- when I was in high school is when I really had the opportunity to listen to her, and that was in the 70's. I was working at this club that she came and performed at. And all my life, I had heard Ella. Of course -- played -- everybody was playing their favorite songs and favorite eras of Ella. But the thing that I loved was when I saw her, she was swinging the Beatles tunes. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah. >> Dianne Reeves: And I thought that was the most incredible thing because now that meant that it's open. That said to me you know, the music that you love is the music that you can bring a jazz sensibility to. And that's exactly what she did. And so for me, that Ella, that thing about Ella was the greatest discovery and the thing that ignited me. >> Larry Appelbaum: You actually subbed for her. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: For at least a few days at The Warehouse. >> Dianne Reeves: The one day, it was just one day. >> Larry Appelbaum: One day? Okay. Tell that story. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. Well, this is that same performance. The Warehouse was a club in Denver that upstairs was the big club, The Warehouse. And then downstairs was The Tool Shed. And I ended up getting this gig because Jean Harris had come through Denver along with Blue Mitchell. They were all hanging out in Denver, and he found a home at this club, and he would have a jam session on Sunday. So I would go to the jam session and ended up getting a gig there. I'm in high school. My parents are chaperoning. I'm seeing all the big acts upstairs, and then they tell me Ella is coming. So they made arrangements so that I could go up and see her. So I'm watching her show and once again, she was swinging the Beatles. And it was just unbelievable, and went backstage and hung out in her dressing room, and people were coming back. And she was very gracious, and every time I would get up to leave, she'd tell me to just sit there. And finally when everybody left and she asked me how did I like the show? And I told her, that it was absolutely wonderful, but I was so star struck and in awe because while she was being nice to all of these people, I'm looking at all this wardrobe and gowns and shoes laid out and going my God, it was just a lot. All these colors and the tone of her speaking voice. And so the next night she was to come, but as you know, Denver has got a -- we have thin air, and the air took its toll on her. And she wasn't able to perform. So they put a group of musicians. My uncle is bass assistant. He was one of them, and he said we want you go to upstairs and sing a few songs with the band. And I remember they hadn't cleared out her dressing room, and I was sitting in her dressing room, and she had these cute little periwinkle blue pumps just sitting there. They were patent leather, and I just stuck my feet in them. They were narrow, but I got my feet in them, and I remember going and I performed three songs. I vaguely remember that because the entire time I was looking down at the shoes. >> Larry Appelbaum: That's hip. Do you have a sense from watching her -- I mean, we all know what a great artist she was as a singer, as an improviser. Do you have a sense of her personality? What kind of person she was? Like off the band stand? >> Dianne Reeves: No. I mean, only the little bit that I was able to peep and I found her speaking voice to be as I remember it was very small and like I said, it was kind of on breath and just gracious and thank you and da, da, da, like that. And I look back, I think knowing what I know about singing now, I know that the stage is a sacred place, and it is a place that when you walk onto it, there's an immediate change. And there is no inhibition. There is no editing. There is no fear. But right before you go on, you feel all of those things. You feel -- at least I do -- and I had heard that she was very, very nervous a lot of times before going on stage, and I thought I understand that. So the ability becomes a kind of armor and a shield, and people see you in a certain way, and that's how they think of you, but they don't really know you, and I know that's true. >> Larry Appelbaum: So much of what you do on stage requires being in the moment. >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. >> Larry Appelbaum: Can you prepare to be in the moment? >> Dianne Reeves: The preparing comes from the doing. That this is a landscape that you understand and you know how to navigate and that you are familiar with in every fiber of your being. You know how to hear. You know what certain harmonies sound like and how they move and where you want to go in that, and so those things become second nature, and then the next thing is what does the moment say that I should do right now? It's like this conversation you could ask me the same question tomorrow and I will probably describe the same thing in a different way. >> Larry Appelbaum: We talked about Ella, but I want to focus a bit on you. You're born in Detroit. When did your family move to Denver? >> Dianne Reeves: When I was two. I was very young. >> Larry Appelbaum: So no memories of Detroit really? >> Dianne Reeves: No, other than that's where I spent all my summers, but basically I did not attend school there. I didn't really grow up there. I grew up in Denver, Colorado. >> Larry Appelbaum: Music around the house? >> Dianne Reeves: Oh my God, yes. I mean -- >> Larry Appelbaum: Was there a piano in the home? >> Dianne Reeves: Piano in the house. I had my grandmother's sister -- two sisters and an uncle, they were all performers, and the oldest brother and sister I never met, but always heard stories about them. But my one Aunt Kay, that was when we'd have holiday dinners at her house, she played and she would sing all of those Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith blues with a dual meaning and adults would be laughing and we didn't know why they were laughing, but I would learn the songs because it sounded like [crosstalk]. And I remember my uncle would play bass and so that was one side of it. Then my uncle was with the symphony so we would go and hear him. >> Larry Appelbaum: This is Charles Burrell. >> Dianne Reeves: Charles Burrell and then my mother had her music. My father loved jazz music so he -- there were records everywhere and I think the first cuss word that I could really say out loud without a problem was Bitches Brew. And then of course George Duke and my sister's ten years older than me so I'm listening to the music that she listened to. Everybody loved music. >> Larry Appelbaum: George Duke is your cousin? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. George Duke is my cousin, was my cousin. >> Larry Appelbaum: Do you remember the first record you bought with your own money? >> Dianne Reeves: No because they were always just -- >> Larry Appelbaum: I mean, what kind of music were you listening to when you were preteens? >> Dianne Reeves: Preteen -- you know what? I actually do. The first record that I bought with my own money was Marvin Gaye's What's Going On? Yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: Oh really? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah because that was different. But as a kid, here we are, we're listening now black radio has come into view in Denver, and I remember it was a station called KDKO, Dr. Daddyo, and that's when we started hearing the music of Motown. And my nextdoor neighbor was also from Detroit. She spent a lot of time like I would sometimes would go together to Detroit in the summertime, and learn all the dances, learn -- and then we'd have -- we had 45's like -- I think my mother, I'd say I want this 45, and she would go and she had her -- and my friend, Regina, had her brother who would bring the 45's and so we would just listen to them over and over. >> Larry Appelbaum: Did you ever sing into your hairbrush? >> Dianne Reeves: No. We didn't sing into a hairbrush. We actually watched -- and this is a really interesting thing -- we would watch on television like The Temptations or when they did the show TCB with the Supremes, and I mean we could take all that in and actually turn back around and basically do just what they did, the moves and everybody, yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: Slick stuff. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, and so we would have our own little dances and stuff, but we sang out loud, didn't have a hairbrush. But just had a broom, did all the different things, could turn around and grab the broom and all that kind of stuff. >> Larry Appelbaum: Were you also listening to like Stacks records or was it strictly Motown? >> Dianne Reeves: No, it was really everything. James Brown was very much a part of my life. Stacks was a part of my life because of my sister. So it was everything. And it was an interesting time because in the 60's and 70's music was very message, early 70's very message oriented. So it really could easily be the background music or the sound track of your life because all of these musicians we're talking about, how we have to come together and get along and he's not heavy, he's my brother and all of these things. And I remember going to the record store with my Dad. The music was in alphabetical order so that was really cool. And I think back, there were no boundaries and wasn't categorized. I'd never heard the word genre at that time. My world music experience before that word was even coined came from jazz musicians, listening to Dizzy Gillespie and the music of [inaudible] or listen to Wayne Shorter and hearing this amazing sound from Brazil with Milton [inaudible] and all of this introducing us to this world of music and my sister going to concerts and saying who was there and it would be all -- you could be miles [inaudible], it was just music to people. So it was really big and broad at that time. So what happened when you first encountered Betty Carter? >> Dianne Reeves: Oh my God. I had my own group by this time. I had moved to Los Angeles, and we were performing and trying to -- our group was a group that you wrote a range, you improvised and tried to go so far. We didn't care about coming back, just see where we could take the music. >> Larry Appelbaum: What was the name of that group? >> Dianne Reeves: It was called Night Flight. And I remember we would always go and hear different people that were coming in town at the time. I was living way out in Glendale. My drummer called me and said, "Dianne, you got to get down here and hear this lady. Her name is Betty Carter. You got to come here. We just heard the first set. Come so you can be here for the next set." So then you just did that. Jumped up, made the 45 minute trek, got there in enough time to hear her, and I was mesmerized. I was -- I almost lost my mind. I'd never ever heard anyone stand in a band like that. And really co-create in a way that the movement of the music, the musicians would play and she would pull so far back on the time and you would think oh my God, something's going on, but you knew it wasn't wrong. It was all right. And she's telling these stories with broad strokes and there was something about her that -- and I think this happens with every young artist, that you see a glimpse of something, that you actually recognize. And it's like a fleeting light, but it's enough to not only change your heart and your mind, but really make you feel things physically. And I remember that when I drove home, I was basically in a trance because it was like a God experience for me. So at the time, I had two roommates. One was a hairdresser and one was a flight attendant. And they were both gone for the weekend now, every night now from now on. That was the first time she was doing six nights. So I'm going every single night to hear her. >> Larry Appelbaum: What club was it? >> Dianne Reeves: Hop Sings out on Lincoln. And so I go and I look up her records at Tower Records. They are records on Betty Carter, and I'm going wow, that's her own level. And buy a whole new turn table and set it up with speakers underneath it, and this whole weekend, this whole time my roommates were gone, when I wasn't at the club, I'm listening to her with flowers on either side of the turn table. I mean, it was like an altar. And they came home and they said, "What is wrong?" I'm like you don't understand. So I remember the whole band, we were all there every single night. And it was -- I believe it was Curtis Lundy was on -- almost -- I think that [inaudible]. I'm thinking it was [inaudible]. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah, that was a trio. That was one of our great trios. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, was on piano. But anyway, I remember I thought okay, I want to try this thing with these long strokes and pull back on the time and I said so I'm going to count off this slow temple for the man I love, and you guys just play it. I'm going to try it. One, two, three, four. By the end of the song, I couldn't find the man I love. He couldn't find me, but what an experience. >> Larry Appelbaum: It's harder than it looks. >> Dianne Reeves: Well, but the thing was, I had a place where I could try. And so I just kept trying until I found this place that I liked for me that worked for me, and I've been pulling back on time ever since. The next person I heard do that in a totally different way was Shirley Horn. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah. Her -- very creative use of space. >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah, here in Washington. Now when you have these kind of experiences that open the doors for you in your mind, do you talk to the artist? Did you talk to Betty? Do you talk to Shirley? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. As a matter of fact, Betty from that point on anytime she came to L.A., I was there, but I hadn't talked to her yet, and she [inaudible] know I was there. And her assistant told me one time she said -- Betty would say that girl is out there. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah, stalking. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, just listening because it was just -- because from there she went to the [inaudible] and she also did -- there was another little place, Vine Street where I saw her. And it was really an amazing thing. It was like school. I call these living schools because I really got to really sit up under, listen and break things down or go oh wow. I never would have thought to make a choice like that or playing with time and making time your own and being able to take a lyric and paint a picture with a lyric and all of these things. And so I went to the University of Colorado but I never had schooling like when I would go and sit in front of people like her. I'd go and see Carmen McCray would be at the Parisian Room. They're right there. Big Joe Turner. I had just broken up with my boyfriend. Big Joe Turner was sitting on stage, and the whole -- my friend took me and I weeped [phonetic] the whole time and the whole time he looked at me and sang. And it just was this amazing thing. So those for me -- and being able to work with a lot of the architects of the music. For me, the living school was the best because you realize that there was this intimate exchange that goes on between musicians, sometimes jokes but always conversation. Always taking a conversation to different levels and making statements within the music that audience hears but doesn't really, really know where it came from because the statement really came from what just happened backstage when everybody was laughing and talking. >> Larry Appelbaum: You can learn a lot from reading books. >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. >> Larry Appelbaum: You can learn a lot from studying scores. But it's still -- so much of this music is still an oral tradition. It's passed on from master to student or apprentice or whatever. So when you finally gathered the courage to talk to Betty or to Shirley or to any of the other greats who inspired you, what would you ask them? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, I'd just go there, sit and talk. I wouldn't really talk about the music, just listen to -- because Betty was the one that took over a conversation. So it was cool with me. It's like oh, okay. >> Larry Appelbaum: Was she curious about you? >> Dianne Reeves: Later on. I did this record called Art and Survival, and Javon Jackson right after that was doing a record and he had asked Betty to produce his record. And he asked me to be on it, and I loved Javon. He's from Denver, and I was like absolutely and absolutely because Betty was producing it. And I think one of the songs was I Waited for You, whatever. So I made sure -- I mean, I knew everything. I sang it down, and I remember after the first take because I just wanted it to be right and I really thought it out and really rehearsed, I mean really rehearsed in a way that it was part of my show so that it felt like I could do anything with it, and then it was just silence. And I was like oh, God. She said, "When you do the second verse, just be a little more inventive, just do something else." I was like, oh, okay. And I did that. And our conversation was really, really short. I did the song. She said, cool, cool. So a couple of weeks later, I was talking to Bruce Ludball [assumed spelling], and I was like I have this idea for this record, and I wanted -- because I liked the idea of a woman producing jazz music because it's a whole different way of looking at things. And at the time, I was thinking her and early on Terry, Lynn Carrington because she produced one of the songs on the Art and Survival record. And myself, and I thought maybe not the whole thing but some things. So Bruce went and told her Dianne wants you to produce her record. I was like, Bruce I didn't say that. So anyway, we ended up talking. And I said well, I told her my idea. And she said, "Well if I don't produce the whole thing, I don't produce." I said I'm really sorry to hear that. And so we got into this really deep conversation. Betty was hard. And she said, "And then I heard your -- ." So I knew she was listening to my music because she was calling off tunes. "I heard you sing Body and Soul, and I never put anger in my music. It felt angry and you can't bring that to audience." I said, "Well, that's how I feel about the song. It was more -- it was not so much anger as it was I was stating the fact that this was where I was. And I was shouting it. And I got the courage to do that from listening to you." Totally flipped the conversation. So she said to me, "Look, I have a run to make and I'll be right back, and I'm going to call you again." And I said okay. And she called me back and then we started to talk. And it was -- it was incredible and after she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, I remember she was at the [inaudible] Jazz Festival, and I went to go see her there, and we hugged, and I told her that I really respected and loved her and thank you for the performance that evening. And she gave me this really wonderful hug and told me to just be strong out there. She said stick to who you are. >> Larry Appelbaum: I'm not sure there was anybody stronger than Betty Carter. >> Dianne Reeves: I don't think so. Well -- >> Larry Appelbaum: Especially when you think of when she came up. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, but you know [crosstalk]. But Sarah was. They all had -- they all went through some -- and Carmen McCray. They all -- they're all from the -- cut from the same cloth I think. Just a different way of dealing with it, pushing through because -- and I realize that -- I'll never forget. I had this gig out at USC once. And it was with my band, all my music, and Billy Childs was in the band at that time, and we were performing and this big radio disc jockey was there because it was a live performance on air. And he decided he would interview Billy, which was cool. And so he's like I'm listening to music. He's talking about the music, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said so who's the chick singer? And Billy said, "Oh, that's Dianne Reeves." And we've been working together and da, da, da, da, da, da. Disc jockey says, "Well, who's the leader of the band?" And Billy looks at him and says, "The chick singer." So this kind of thing -- the -- what I got from having to push through was nothing -- I realized was nothing like how Sarah and Carmen and Ella and all -- Billy and all of them pushed through in a way that allowed -- for them, it was black and white, and I got to be in a gray area if I needed to be. They created that for me. But it was still very male dominated art form. However, they were really, really good people like Clark Terry and Lou Belson [assumed spelling]. Of course, Fat Jones and Mel Lewis who -- that was the first time I even heard Dee Dee Bridgewater was with them. They were open and broad and hearing music for what it was. So I had this opportunity to come through all of that. >> Larry Appelbaum: You led your own groups for many years. But you've also worked for other leaders. What do you think makes a good leader? >> Dianne Reeves: Just being very, very clear about what it is that you want and also being respectful of who you're bringing to the table because everybody has a way -- has something to contribute and they want to make your thing happen but they do it in their own voice, and I like when people are like that. I learned that Ellington was like that. >> Larry Appelbaum: How did you learn to improvise? Did it just come naturally? >> Dianne Reeves: No. Yes and no. I mean, the desire of course was natural but then I had to go -- I ha to learn how to sing through chord changes and what to hear and how to hear. >> Larry Appelbaum: Did you do that just by listening to great singers? >> Dianne Reeves: Listening -- yeah, mostly listening. Listening to mostly instrumentalists because there was more instrumentalists who were improvising than there were singers. I mean other than Ella who was an instrumentalist. >> Larry Appelbaum: And which specific instrumentalist would have inspired you? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, for different reasons, different ones like for instance, I loved Miles because I equated Miles with after I discovered Milton [inaudible] with the same kind of thing with tone, being able to sing these really beautiful notes that are on the edge without bravado. Just straight and there's a kind of innocence to the sound or it just -- it cuts through but it -- you want it to penetrate. Then I'd listen to someone like Cannon Ball Adderly [assumed spelling] who I could hear the stories in what he played. So you're listening to Country Preacher which I recorded, and you could hear this whole story of what was going on. And I love the sound of his horn and I love what he did with Nancy Wilson, how well and how beautifully that went together. So it would be like that. Those were the first two. And then later on when I discovered the Sarah Vaughn and Clifford Brown album, then it was like oh, okay. This is something -- something else that is -- so I started to realize that I had to define -- through musicians I started to realize that improvisation was one thing but defining and refining your own sound and tone was quite another. And so I went about doing that because I noticed that with Sara she really understood her entire instrument. Ella created a language to improvise with, that was strictly for her. I always tell people that was a language to be able to articulate and say what -- reach the things that she needed to say. Everybody's different. Depending on where you come from, you have to -- somebody who is learning to do that and they're from Brazil or something, they're going to use different kinds of sound. So you have to find your own place. And then I found that improvisation was steeped in phrasing. While Betty was a great improviser in terms of with melody without lyric, but she also phrased in a way that was very, very powerful. Same thing with Billie Holiday. So how do you want -- these things began to help me understand well how -- what do you want to say, how do you want to say it and how will you go about saying it? So tearing down the songs and looking at the lyrics and say oh, I want to say it like this because this song reminds me of whatever in my life, and that would be the subtext. And then from that point on, just hearing how the harmonies fall and knowing where you want to start and where you want to get to and you get -- you think farther than where you are so you know where you want to get to at all times. >> Larry Appelbaum: Interesting to hear you talk about sound. And I'm always curious how much of either an instrumentalist or a vocalist sound is conscious and how much of it is -- for example, when we were just using our speaking voice, if you're an actor or actress, yes, you've trained your voice to sound in a certain way. >> Dianne Reeves: Right. >> Larry Appelbaum: Most people just speak because they learn from their parents or they learn somehow. It's not necessarily conscious. >> Dianne Reeves: Right. >> Larry Appelbaum: So as a singer, how much of your sound is conscious? Something that you've trained yourself to do? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, for instance, speaking because my instrument is something I have to use every day on the phone. I consciously do not holler into other rooms. I consciously stay supported to the point where it's -- keep my voice lifted to the point where it's just second nature because I know I have to. When I have to project -- like if I have to say something loud so somebody hears or even in anger, I'm really conscious about all of that because I still know that I have to work. And also I know the limitations of my instrument. I know that my instrument needs sleep. I know my instrument needs water. I know that my instrument sometimes needs silence. Needs a smoke-free environment. But I know singers that can do all of that, and they don't have a problem. But that's their instrument. So -- and then after that, when I look at different songs that I sing because I sing all kinds of music, different music has a different kind of atmosphere or sound scape or landscape. >> Larry Appelbaum: Give me an example. >> Dianne Reeves: Like if I sing say Love for Sale and I do it in this Brazilian kind of way, there's a certain way that I would use my voice. But if I were to take Love for Sale and say, you know, I'm going to bring it down, and it's really up tempo and fast pace and it's a lot of fun, what if I want to do it in a different kind of way? I might change the key to bring it -- if I want to do it as a ballad. I decide what it is that I want to say with it. Might change harmonies that give my voice a whole another kind of feeling. All of these kinds of things to set up the sound to give the lyric life. >> Larry Appelbaum: Of course it helps that you've been working with certain musicians for a long time in your band, whether it's Peter or Romero -- because they're right there with you. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: So you can change in the moment. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, and that's the thing that I love because they come from a period of time where they're real open to that. So that conversation thing can happen. If I'm doing something with Romero which I'm excited tonight to perform with just the two of them because things change and Romero, if I do something with just him, I just never know where he's going to go, and I love it. It's the same thing with my bass player. I'll turn around with him sometimes and say okay, we're going to do all blues. That's like you pick the groove. We're not going to do the traditional. And every night, but he comes out of this tradition in New Orleans. >> Larry Appelbaum: That's Reginald. >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. Reginald Veal [assumed spelling]. He comes out of this tradition from New Orleans that is that, that in the moment creates and is comfortable with the creation they make. So this goes on all the time, written -- I wrote this song called Tango just so that we just have this opportunity that every night this song just changes. I tell the audience that it'll never be tomorrow night or any other night. >> Larry Appelbaum: So when you're thinking about a recording project, you can see where you're drawn to certain songs. By the way, what does draw you to certain songs? >> Dianne Reeves: It's mostly the lyric. Yeah. It's mostly the lyric. >> Larry Appelbaum: Is that a matter of the story? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, and something -- even if I've never experienced it, there's something about it that speaks to me so that's -- or something I want to talk about or that I've seen that I'm inspired by. >> Larry Appelbaum: So let's say you develop a set list or a program list say ten songs. Do you then go out on the road before you record just to see how the song sort of takes shape? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, yeah absolutely. >> Larry Appelbaum: And how does it change from your original conception to what you end up recording? >> Dianne Reeves: It just does. That's a really -- it's a kind of -- it's a funny thing. Say I'll take for instance he's doing -- there's this Annie Defranco song that I do for my record that never was that. The way that we recorded was not how it started out, and Annie Defranco -- it's called 32 Flavors -- Annie Defranco writes poetry. So you can interpret it and she wrote the song that there's not much of a melody. So it's really -- it gives itself -- lends itself beautifully to improvising. So I learned the lyric, learned her melody and then I would go out on the road say like when I was doing Two Guitars with Russell Malone and Romero and I say okay, we're going to come up with this groove. And they'd start this groove. And then I start putting this lyrics in certain rhythm on top of it, and they would respond. So okay, now we got this thing that has this kind of middle eastern kind of drone to it, and it's working. Okay, we did that. Then another night it just kept changing to something else. And then it turned into a blues and then it -- I just let it -- I -- going back to what I said earlier about you know what certain people bring to the table. In my band, I know how all of them are. So I can look at my drummer and say okay, do this, and he will play certain things that I know that this is going to work out over. So it just keeps -- I just keep trying things. And that's with a lot of songs. Keep trying things until we settle and find a place for it. >> Larry Appelbaum: Are you self-critical as an artist? >> Dianne Reeves: After I've done it, after I go and listen to the end product, then I'm like oh. >> Larry Appelbaum: I mean, when you're listening to takes. What goes through your mind? >> Dianne Reeves: I have to really -- the biggest thing is I have to really -- one thing that George taught me is when we first started working together, George Duke, on my first Blue Note album, he realized that I was very, very critical and was like no. He said you can't -- there comes a point where you just have to just walk away because you are going to be so critical that the initial spirit, the initial idea that you just sang without thinking which is the real thing will be gone. And I thought okay. So I would go in and I would listen to a take and say okay, okay and then walk away from it and come back and hear it in -- and the next day it would hear -- I'd hear it in a totally different way. And it's like yeah, keep that. So I started to really enjoy my choices, but sometimes it's really, really hard. And then at the very end, I'm like oh. I have a hard time listening to myself. >> Larry Appelbaum: As a producer, was George a first take kind of guy/ >> Dianne Reeves: First three takes. >> Larry Appelbaum: First three? Because after that you might get perfection but it's [crosstalk]. >> Dianne Reeves: And because he knew who I was, he knew that she's a live performer. He understood that. And someone who is a studio performer it's a totally different thing. But he understood that we have to get this when she comes in here, and she's ready and can't wait to get it down, bam! And generally, it would be the first or second take of a song. >> Larry Appelbaum: As a live performer, do you enjoy having people in the studio with you, like friends and -- ? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, I really, really do. I need it. Just -- and not for applause, just for energy. I like having that. The first live record that I did, we did it at SIR Studios in Los Angeles. It was really incredible. We did it for two nights, just invited people to come in and that was just a larger experience of what I experienced when I'm doing my records, yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: Let's take a step back [inaudible] a little bit. I want you to think about all the songs that you recorded, all your recordings. And you think about the trajectory of your career. What is the story of your career in those songs? >> Dianne Reeves: I think the biggest story is that I've never had to compromise and that in the very beginning I kind of decided that that's what success was for me because I was asked -- told that you need to define what success means to you. And so for me, music is interesting. Music saved my life. And -- >> Larry Appelbaum: What makes you say that? >> Dianne Reeves: It literally saved my life. Coming up in junior high school, I was a very depressed kid, very, very depressed. >> Larry Appelbaum: In Denver? >> Dianne Reeves: In Denver. And just for a lot of reasons that I won't go into but extremely. And -- >> Larry Appelbaum: Were you a loner? >> Dianne Reeves: I've never been not so much a loner, but I've never been one to have lots of people, only people that I really knew and it was a small group of people that to this day we're still friends. And I was tall for my age. I always got criticized about that. My mother would say oh no, you're statuesque, and I loved that word. And just saw things and felt things in a different kind of way that was different than my peers. And I had a situation where -- when I was 12 years old, I was found under the steps and never really talked about this. I was found under the steps because I tried to commit suicide. And I remember I was out for three days. The only time that I looked up was once to see my mother looking down at me. And then through the whole process of they put you with therapists and stuff, and I wouldn't -- I would -- I could not talk to them. And I guess they said we have to find another way. But at the same time, had this really great teacher, Benny Williams, who was the choral teacher at our school. And the other thing was we were the first kids to be bussed to the school, Hamilton Junior High. And -- >> Larry Appelbaum: So this is like early 70's? Yeah. >> Dianne Reeves: Late 60's, early 70's. And I remember she -- to bring the students together because she was the music teacher, she said I'm going to bring all this contemporary music that is happening together and these kids are going to sing each other's songs. So we're singing Bob Dillon's songs. Black kids were singing Bob Dillon songs. White kids were singing Ball of Confusion. It was just like she mixed us up and gave us poetry, and we wrote our own show. And it was very empowering. And I had two songs that I was singing, one with a group, another song that came out on the Edwin Hawkins album that was Oh Happy Day. There was a song called Joy. And that song was my first song that I sang that I felt something pull my heart, and when I closed my eyes, I started to sing it, and something that connected with people. And it was really, really powerful. And it saved my life. And I remember walking down the hall because my grandmother would always say don't put all your eggs in one basket, but this felt so right. I remember saying out loud, "I'm putting all my eggs in one basket" walking past the science room. I can see it as vividly as when it happened. >> Larry Appelbaum: So that basket is the world of music and creativity? >> Dianne Reeves: That basket was creativity, the way that I saw what it would do for me, how it would help me and its really, really served in a lot of ways to change a lot of things in my life. People looked at me in a different kind of way. And then it became a place to hide behind. And I started to realize that there was Dianne Reeves the artist, Dianne Reeves the person, and they really needed to come together and that's when I did the Art and Survival album. And that album was when everything changed, and it was like it was very cathartic for me and it was a record that wasn't very well received but those who hear it get it. It was controversial. There were a lot of things, and it was at a crossroads in my life when I was not with Blue Note, and I was with -- on the other side of the label trying to get back to Blue Note and Bruce -- it's like a whole bunch of -- there's a whole big story there. But basically it was the thing that pushed me through, and it pushed me through because it was what I wanted to do no matter what happened. I would suffer whatever the consequences. And I came up on the other side still there and still able and still being able to sing the music I wanted to sing. >> Larry Appelbaum: Have your feelings about music and creativity changed over the years since then? >> Dianne Reeves: I think there are certain things. I think -- >> Larry Appelbaum: For example, do you ever get jaded by the business of music? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, yes but I kind of -- while I was in it, I never really was of it. I don't know how to describe that. I always marched to my own drum, and figured people -- I didn't sell a lot of records, but people come to my concerts. And nobody could really touch that. I know people sign deals now where all that's included. But that's mine. I built that. And so that part was the thing that allowed me to say well, I've seen people feel like they've been thrown -- that they were thrown away by record companies because they weren't selling enough records and I thought to myself, I never sell enough records. But I'm still here. And I'm still doing what I love to do and it still takes care of my life now. The other side of it is that I still love to do what I do, but I know that it's taken away. I'm not married. I have no children. I think about that sometimes, but I also know about me that if that's what I chose to do, I would have done it. >> Larry Appelbaum: There's a world outside of music. >> Dianne Reeves: Oh yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: Maybe not outside of creativity because that's in everything. What do you like to do outside of music? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, I really love improvising with food. >> Larry Appelbaum: Really? >> Dianne Reeves: Oh yeah. I love to cook. >> Larry Appelbaum: You're a foodie. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. We travel. People are always introducing us to new things and there are flavors that I haven't had. I'll try it and I'll say what is that? Why does it taste this way or whatever? >> Larry Appelbaum: What's your latest obsession? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, lately actually I've just been home and just eating very, very, very clean. I like this whole idea of making breads out of cauliflower, figuring out all of those kinds of things. But we've been traveling a great deal. So I will be in the kitchen this summer because I'm off. But basically it's like these really clean kind of dishes that there's a place at home called The True Food Kitchen. I think they have them different places. And it's a pretty cool place. The way they make the food taste is good, but I'm like I can make it better. >> Larry Appelbaum: You can [inaudible]. I know you can. >> Dianne Reeves: But I like the idea of having tthis food that is really, really clean and done in a certain way that you eat it and you actually feel energized and good about it. >> Larry Appelbaum: I know you travel all over the world. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: Is there part of the world you haven't been to yet? >> Dianne Reeves: I've never been to India. >> Larry Appelbaum: Do you like Indian food? >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm going tomorrow tonight. A friend of mine was telling me about a restaurant so we'll go. But I love Indian food. I've never been -- I've been to lots of places, few places in Africa but I've never been to Ghana. We are going to Kenya next year. And I've never been to Egypt. So there are a lot of -- and I've really explored a lot of South America. So there are a lot of places. And the odd thing about that is there's a lot of influence in my music from -- >> Larry Appelbaum: Oh, very much so. >> Dianne Reeves: So I've never -- and that's just from the musicians that brought the flavor to me. >> Larry Appelbaum: You and I are basically same generation, and I think when we were coming up and forming some of our musical taste, there was a term, a marketing term called world music. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah. >> Larry Appelbaum: And so is that still a thing? >> Dianne Reeves: I don't know. I think now it's global. Now it's just global. Everybody works with everybody and goes -- it's just -- the internet has allowed us to make the world smaller and more accessible. >> Larry Appelbaum: Do you stream yourself? Do you look at Youtube? >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, all of that. >> Larry Appelbaum: Is there -- what do you think of the newer generation of neo soul singers? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, I don't know. >> Larry Appelbaum: Because you could do that if you wanted. >> Dianne Reeves: I don't think they even call themselves neo soul. But they -- it's like all of these Indie musicians and there's this whole -- and a lot of them come out of the hip hop generation. And that's a whole another way of listening to things that -- I'm still on the outside looking in. I still -- I love it. I don't know how they get to it, some of it. But I really, really love that it's new and it's fresh and it's musical and it's rhythmic and it expresses poetry in a totally different kind of way. >> Larry Appelbaum: I would imagine that when you were coming up and started to make your records people felt the same way about you. >> Dianne Reeves: Probably. >> Larry Appelbaum: So there's a continuum? >> Dianne Reeves: Oh yeah, absolutely. >> Larry Appelbaum: Each generation discovers. >> Dianne Reeves: Oh God, I'm out. But it's cool because I appreciate it and I'm surrounded by people and musicians that appreciated that. Always still, you look at people like Herbie and Wayne always still pushing to be -- to understand and be in the relevant flow. >> Larry Appelbaum: Is recognition important to you? >> Dianne Reeves: It's cool. I like that I'm -- in terms of being able to go out and perform and other people understand my work and love it, yeah. It's very important. >> Larry Appelbaum: Do you work as much as you want? >> Dianne Reeves: Yes, and I'm off as much as I want. So that's good. >> Larry Appelbaum: That's a nice balance. >> Dianne Reeves: And that's what it is right now. It's all about balance. >> Larry Appelbaum: What's -- oh I should probably ask you. Your last recording won a Grammy. >> Dianne Reeves: Right, right. >> Larry Appelbaum: So what's the next one? How do you follow up on a Grammy? >> Dianne Reeves: A Grammy is something that happens then and you're thankful for it, and you move forward. And not everything gets a Grammy or a nomination, but that's not why you do it. I have a project that I just did in [inaudible]. It's a live record which I'm really excited about that I produced, and I love it because it is really just one performance. It's no mixing of other performances. We went in. We hit it and we have special guest, [inaudible] on the recording with my band, Peter Martin, Reginald Veal, [inaudible] and [inaudible] on drums. And we add some new things, and some things from -- a couple of things from Beautiful Life, but it's a whole other kind of feeling and it's very joyous, and I'm excited about it. >> Larry Appelbaum: So speaking of balance, how do you -- how do you balance being the artist and also being the producer where you have to sort of be detached and make decisions? >> Dianne Reeves: Well, I had to do a lot of thinking about how I wanted it to be presented. And presented in a way that my musicians didn't feel like they were really being recorded and that I didn't feel like -- that I had to tell myself this is a live recording and you know that this is the only one we're going to do so -- but I just had to spend time and say you know, I'm not going to over sing, I'm just going to do my thing and the way that I did that was did several group gigs ahead of time on the way to doing this last gig and basically it's just all the work, the prep work before and it came out just the way I wanted it to or actually better. >> Larry Appelbaum: We're looking forward to it. >> Dianne Reeves: Thank you. >> Larry Appelbaum: Is there a dream project you have in mind that you haven't done yet? >> Dianne Reeves: I found a lot of my dreams have come true. Some haven't. But I found that the things that I could never even think about -- never even thought about that have come into my life have been extraordinary. So I'm just open. >> Larry Appelbaum: How about somebody you haven't worked with yet that you've always wanted to. >> Dianne Reeves: Some of those people have passed on so that's not going to happen, but no. I'm just open. When we did the Sing the Truth project with [inaudible] and Liz Wright, it was something that came up, that's a good idea. Now we fill in the blanks and make it and we celebrated Nina Simone, and it was an extraordinary experience with Nina Simone's daughter, Simone. And it was really, really great. And it wasn't anything I thought of doing. But I'm glad that we did. >> Larry Appelbaum: I would bet that there are musicians out there whose dream is to do something with you. >> Dianne Reeves: I'm open. Yeah, and they call me. I just did this think with [inaudible]. He has this new project [inaudible] coming out, and it was really kind of cool because he had me singing. He called me up. He says, "Do you think you would sing -- learn the lyrics in [inaudible]?" I was like really? And so right when I know that I'm going to say no, I grit my teeth and say yes. >> Larry Appelbaum: Because just pushing on. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah because it's going to be interesting. I have the time. I can -- I said look, I need you to do this, this, this and this. He said okay, and it was extraordinary. Had so much fun. >> Larry Appelbaum: Did you listen to him teach you the lyric or did he write it out phonetically? >> Dianne Reeves: He wrote it for me phonetically -- no, he wrote it out. Just like I wrote it phonetically, I had him speak the words and send it to me and then I just went line by line. It wasn't a whole lot but it's tonal and rhythmic. And some of the rhythm I was not -- I was like I don't even know where one is. Still don't, but I realize learn it like a kindergartner like you just don't care about that. It just is, and I did, and I had so much fun with it. >> Larry Appelbaum: It's also connecting to the real source of music. >> Dianne Reeves: Yes. >> Larry Appelbaum: And that's where it all comes fromj. >> Dianne Reeves: Yeah, absolutely. >> Larry Appelbaum: Yeah. >> Dianne Reeves: So cool. >> Larry Appelbaum: Dianne, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. We're looking forward to your performance tonight. Continued success. >> Dianne Reeves: Thank you very much. >> Larry Appelbaum: And all that's to come. >> Dianne Reeves: Thank you so much. >> Larry Appelbaum: Thank you. >> Dianne Reeves: All right. This was good. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.