>> From the Library of Congress, in Washington DC. >> Stephen Winnick: Welcome to the Library of Congress. My name is Steve Winnick. I'm the writer at the American Folk Life Center. And I'm here with Sheila Kay Adams who is a fantastic ballad singer and banjo player and storyteller from North Carolina. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Thank you. >> Stephen Winnick: And she's going to tell us a little bit about her life. We're going to have an oral history interview here. So let's just start with you know, general setting of the scene. What is the Madison County and Sodham Laurel Tradition like? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well when Cecil Sharp came through 100 years ago, he visited different people in the Southern Appalachians and somehow found his way to this little community I grew up in which is called Sodham. The Laurel was added later, I'm not sure by who. But anyway, it was just called Sodham back then. And there were eight traditional ballad singers that were still singing when I came along in 1953. And I didn't start out really seeking to learn the songs. What I started out doing was hanging out with the older people. Because my real grandmother died in February of 1958. And right up the road from her lived my relatively young -- although at that time I would have thought she was ancient -- you know, she was probably 40, my great aunt. And so when my grandmother passed I went up the road and adopted Dellie Chandler Norton. And she turned out to be one of the biggest influences on my whole life. She was a wild crafter and knew every plant in the woods, medicinal value or not so medicinal value. She could point out three little plants in a small area five foot square that would kill you if you ate part. You know, so she knew her business. But she was also a singer and came from a family of singers. The Chandler's have always been singers. Wallin's, they were always singers. And the Ray's and the Norton's. And she was from all those families. And so the singing was they just sang. They sang all the time, literally. You know, when they were in the field working, they sang. When they were up in the morning, they were singing, washing dishes. And before they'd go to bed they'd all sit out on the porch and sing. So that's what the singing was kind of like. And it didn't matter what kind of song. Anything from you know, Black is the Color, a traditional ballad from across the big pond, to Carter Family. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: From sacred songs to, "I see the moon, the moon sees me." You know, anything that had a tune, they could sing it. >> Stephen Winnick: Well you mentioned there briefly Cecil sharp who came through, as you say, just 100 years ago. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: And recorded stuff in the community. And you've mentioned before a connection that you have to one particular song by Dearest Dear that has to do with Cecil Sharp. Tell us about that. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes. Well, I had always heard Granny and Berzil talk about this English speaking fellow, which I wondered about. Because we spoke English too, you know. But I didn't realize mountain English was different from English. But as I got older, they told me that this man came from England to collect their songs because he felt they were special. And he put them in this big book. And so that went along and I went off to -- I went off, right. I went to Mars Hill College which is in Madison County. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And in the library, in the little index file box, I found Sharp, Cecil. You know, Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians. And I got the book, looked at it and it was both volume one and two. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And there was my great, great aunt, Mary Sands, who would have been a Wallin, recorded by Cecil Sharp on August 5th, 1916. And my great, great aunt had sung a song called My Dearest Dear. And right over the ridge, her niece, the next morning, gave birth to my mother. So she was in labor while my great, great aunt Mary Sands was singing for Sharp My Dearest Dear. >> Stephen Winnick: And now you sing that song? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Oh yeah, absolutely. And that's my mama's song, you know. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. Well tell us about Dellie. So you said you adopted her as your grandmother basically. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I did. And she used to laugh and tell people, "She adopted me and I didn't have no choice. Its little brain is pretty determined when she takes a mind, has it that way." And so I just -- but you know, I think they appreciated it, the older people did. Because I was so interested in everything they were doing. But Granny was -- gosh. She was I think ahead of her time because she was born in 1898, October the 3rd. And the man that she was in love with went off to World War I and wound up -- he made it back home, but he died of the flu epidemic in 1918. Right, 1918. And so she said that she was an old maid at 21. Barely turned 21 when my great Uncle Ross asked her to marry him. And he had four children of his own, and then she had five of hers. And she raised all nine of them. And then he died in the '60's and she was basically free from that point forward. And I asked her one time, "Why didn't you marry again?" She said, "Because I went from being my daddy's daughter to being my sister's handmaiden." That would have been Berzil when she married Lee. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: "To being my own person. And there wasn't no man going to tell me what to do. Absolutely not. After Ross died, I was done." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. And what were her favorite kinds of songs to sing? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Granny loved all manners of songs. She loved the Carter family and she used to sing Flowers After -- let's see. Don't Give Me Flowers after I Die. >> Stephen Winnick: Okay. >> Sheila Kay Adams: After the Soul is Gone. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That was one of her favorites. And then she would drag out a love song or an old ballad that was hundreds of years old and sing it. And she loved Herman's Hermit. >> Stephen Winnick: That's great. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes, we used to dance on the porch to Herman's Hermit. There's a kind of hush. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: So she loved all kind of music. >> Stephen Winnick: Great. Well you also mentioned Berzil Wallin. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Berzil, yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: What were her big songs? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well now, Granny had Little Farmer Boy that she was kind of -- you know, she considered that her song. But now Berzil had one at almost the same story, a little bit different. But she called it House Carpenter. Now they were sisters. But Berzil's brother-in-law, Chaz Wallin, had one called The Demon Lover. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And they're all three the same song. But Berzil had a way of singing that was almost like conversation. You know, The Girl I Left Behind Me. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Boy, she could sing that and just -- but she had a great line. And Johnny Dole, that was one of her favorite ones. She called it Johnny Doll. And she said, "My ear bobs, they buzz deep and fell to the floor." And I always thought, "Golly, what could call your ear bobs to bust and fall to the floor?" And Berzil was good at -- Daddy said when they were young, that Berzil was the one that had such a sweet voice. And she was the oldest one. She lived up into her nineties. I think she was like 97, almost 98 when she died. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. You know, I remember seeing her in the John Cohen film. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right. >> Stephen Winnick: Where she sings. >> Sheila Kay Adams: She looks ancient, doesn't she? >> Stephen Winnick: She looked ancient and she sang with depth. >> Sheila Kay Adams: She did. It's going to get you. >> Stephen Winnick: It's very, very spooky, yep. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. So I have kind of a weirdly specific question about that film. Because I understand you were there when The Dance was filmed. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I was. >> Stephen Winnick: As a child. So there's one thing that I noticed in that film, which is Doral Chandler is -- there's a scene where he's in a diner with a couple of his male friends and they're just sitting around. And then later at the dance one of those guys is there, but he's wearing women's clothing. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right. >> Stephen Winnick: Was that a tradition? >> Sheila Kay Adams: No. >> Stephen Winnick: What was that about? >> Sheila Kay Adams: It was a dare. >> Stephen Winnick: It was a dare, I see. >> Sheila Kay Adams: It was a dare. They dared Doral. His name was Doral Chandler. He was a nephew of Granny's and Berzil's. He was the son of their brother Lloyd who first sang A Conversation with Death actually, for John Cohen I believe. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so Doral, they dared him to do that. And you just can't dare a mountain man to do anything. You know, they'll step right up to the plate. And so he showed up and danced a little bit with Peter Gaud if I remember. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: He was brave to do that. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well, you know, a lot of mountain men are not too concerned about their masculinity. You know, they don't have any doubt about it. So I don't think it bothered Doral at all. It might have been a little much on him when the camera was rolling. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But he still did it. Yep. We were proud of him. >> Stephen Winnick: That was interesting, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: So it's funny because you know, the way John Cohen makes his films, he doesn't comment on anything. So it's just there but nobody knows what it's about. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. Doral appears and it's very obvious he's a man. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Big hairy legs you know sticking out from under a dress. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And if I remember, he had on a head scarf. >> Stephen Winnick: I think so, yeah, that's right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, but that also brings up Dillard Chandler himself who would have been another influence and great singer. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, he was. He was a fabulous singer. And Dillard I think was being of my parents' generation. He would have had -- he was the one that literally had one foot in one world and one foot in another. Because he talks about it. You know, he says, "If I have to make a little money or make a living, I have to go off from home." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Because there's no money here except in farming. And the land's wore out. That's what he said. And so he would go into Ashville and do landscaping for them rich folks up there as he called it. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But yet he would come back home, you know, and participate in whatever was going on there around home, and still sing. And he had a fabulous voice, I thought, for singing ballads. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, that Soldier Travelling from the North, the way he does that. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Wow. And he had another one that was A Sailor Being Tired. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, great singing. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, fabulous singing. >> Stephen Winnick: So you're a girl and you're in this film because the whole film crew and John Cohen himself -- >> Sheila Kay Adams: And the one person on the film crew. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, that comes and is filming your family and filming Dillard. Did that make an impression on you at that age? >> Sheila Kay Adams: It did, but at the same time -- see I've heard all the stories about Sharp coming. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, and being in that area. So he was not surprised -- and Allan Lomax actually had come through there briefly in the '60's if I'm not mistaken. >> Stephen Winnick: Right, I think that's right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: He came through Ashville and wandered over into Madison County a bit. But anyhow, so yeah, it did. It really influenced. I forgot what the question was. I'm sorry. >> Stephen Winnick: Whether it made an impression on you. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes. Yeah, and what it did was give me a boot in the backside to get busy and learn these songs. Because people from outside thought they were important. Yeah. And I mean, Granny always said, "There's a song for everything." >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. You know, one of the things that you mentioned was Lomax coming through, and coming through Ashville specifically. And that sort of sparked in my mind the question of Bascom Lamar Lunsford, and what his influence would have been on you. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well, Bascom was an interesting character. He was many things. He was a lawyer. He was a folklorist. You know, a collector. And he was also a bit of a fancy dresser, you know. He wore white suits and ties and vests, you know, the whole thing. And shiny shoes and the kids thought he was kind of odd, because he would get up on stage and sing these old songs without any accompaniment, or just his banjo. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, they'd have like a little 30-minute program of him singing. And it was only later that I understood how important Bascom was to our area, because he was Madison County. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And he actually went around all over you know the western counties of North Carolina and collected songs. And do you know, he wrote Mountain Dew? >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: He did, and he found himself in Chicago without money to get home. And he sold the song to somebody for the fare back to North Carolina. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. That's great, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, and you know, it was also interesting because he was one of the people who had been recorded in those early days of recording in the '20's and '30's and then was still around for quite a long time after that. >> Sheila Kay Adams: He was definitely around in the '50's. He was around in the '60's because I took Granny and the crowd up to the Ashville festival, which I think is the longest-running folk festival in the world. >> Stephen Winnick: I think that's true, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: It didn't even break during the wars. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so I took them up there and he would have people come and sit on the stage and then get up and perform. And I can remember that. And his son, Lunsford Jr. was the agriculture teacher at the high school I graduated from. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. So did Bascom encourage you? >> Sheila Kay Adams: He did. As a matter of fact, he gave me -- if I remember right, it was a nickel, because I sang Little Margaret for him. >> Stephen Winnick: So was that the first time you got paid as a singer? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: So I would have been third or fourth grade maybe, there somewhere abouts. And he just came in and asked if any of our family members sang songs without like a piano. Because he said if you didn't clarify it, then people would sing sacred songs. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: All day long. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But he asked and I said, "Yeah, mine do." And so I think that's -- I think he collected -- I know he did from Obray Ramsey which was not Mama's first sweetheart. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But yeah, that was my first interaction with him, was when he asked me if I knew any of the old songs. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, we have several collections here of Bascom's, one of which he came here in I think 1959 and recorded his whole repertoire. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Wow. >> Stephen Winnick: But we also have one which has some really good footage of him with Obray Ramsey. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, so -- >> Sheila Kay Adams: Obray Ramsey I think is one of the best banjo players that's ever been. >> Stephen Winnick: Well let's talk about the banjo a little bit. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Okay. >> Stephen Winnick: You know, you're playing the banjo, so how did you start in that part of your tradition? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well, you know, there was a lot of family members that played music. You know, and a lot of them started out on the guitar which Granny said didn't even come into that part of the world until about 1910. And people just made up ways to play it, she said, because they didn't know how to play it. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Which I think would have been right after -- was it the Spanish-American War with Cuba and we had some guys that went down there and -- >> Stephen Winnick: That's one way it could have come through, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so she said that it was -- the guitar was -- I'm sorry, I've lost the question again. >> Stephen Winnick: Oh, I was just asking how you got into playing the banjo, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I was when I was eight years old, my cousin Jerry Adams said, "You know, Sheila, I think it's time that you learned how to pick the banjo." Because I had gotten under Granny's -- well I got on Granny's bed after she had drug it out from under the bed, and put it up in the middle of the quilt on her bed and said, "Do not touch that banjo. I'm going down to the barn to gather eggs, and so don't put your hands on that banjo." And when she came back, I was playing Cripple Creek, at least a type of it. >> Stephen Winnick: Did she say that to -- >> Sheila Kay Adams: Oh honey, it was reverse psychology. >> Stephen Winnick: To make sure you picked it up? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Absolutely. She knew. She said, "Do not touch that," and I would be right up on the bed with it. Yep, a little reverse psychology. >> Stephen Winnick: All right, that was very smart. That worked very well. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: So you were able to pick it up pretty quick. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I was. And Jerry, I mean all he basically did was show me the style with what they call the pinch picking or the two-finger style. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And then when I heard Dwight Miller when I was a teenager, then I started playing clawhammer and it's been on ever since. I was about eight years old when I started playing. >> Stephen Winnick: So did you learn from Dwight? >> Sheila Kay Adams: I did. I learned tunes from him. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, because I already could play the banjo somewhat. >> Stephen Winnick: Sure. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And all it took was just getting that lick that Dwight does. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And he said, "Oh, you'll get it. Don't worry about it. And then it will take a year and half to get it out to where you can stand it." He was right, because it overpowers everything at top, top sound does. But yeah, I've been playing. It is hard to believe. At 64 now, I've been playing since I was eight years old and singing since I was five or six. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That's a long time. >> Stephen Winnick: That is a long time. Now how did you first sort of realize that these songs were going to be very important to your life? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Inez Chandler passed away in 1981. And she was really special to my heart. And she was hysterically funny. She's one of the funniest people I think I've ever known in my life. And she called me out to the hospital when she was dying. And she said, "Now, I want you to take care of things." And I said, "What things?" Now this was in '81. You know, I was raising babies, doing all that kind of thing. And she said, "You make sure that all these songs get sung, somehow." And I said, "Well, I will." And I was telling Granny about it. And she said, "Well, Lord, yeah, that's why we've been learning them to you." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so it was in the early '80's I guess. And my youngest son Andrew, he loved to hear the story songs. He wanted me at night instead of telling him a bedtime story, Andrew would say, "Sing one of them old songs that tells a story." Or he would say, "Tell one of them stories about your Oldham times, when you were a young girl." And so that was where the book came from, Come Go Home With Me. >> Stephen Winnick: So your first book was stories that you -- >> Sheila Kay Adams: A collection of stories that I told the kids when they were little. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. Well you mentioned Inez and there's another person that you talk about a lot. And that there's some funny stories about her. So what more can you tell us about her? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Oh, there's lots of funny stories about Inez. She moved like a ship in full sail everywhere she went, with all this flowing brown and dark green double-knit polyester. And she would say, "You know, this is the best material there ever was. Because all you have to do is wash it, hang it on the line and you don't have to iron it." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: She says, "As a matter of fact, it will melt if you iron it." And she said, "It's what they make them parachute cords out of, and it won't break for nothing. I mean, you can wear it forever and it won't break, wear out, nothing." Of course she said, "It ain't warm in the wintertime, and it burns you up in the summertime, but you don't have to iron it." You know, and she -- Inez shared a lot of the stuff that kids I think miss about their people. Because she didn't mind telling me stories that were a little off. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, kind of off on the other side. You know, about who was married to who really. And her and Daddy both would say, "You see them Hagins over there? They weren't the Hagins's. They were all Cooks." And so you knew everybody's legitimacy and illegitimacy, walking through a graveyard with them. And she was also the one that said, when Granny went in the hospital, I guess she was in her late '80's. I went down to see Inez after that because she had called me and by then we had phones. She'd called me and said, "If you go in to see Dellie, then let me know how she's doing." So I went down there and she said, "Oh, I already heard she's doing all right. She'll be home before the end of the week." And I said, "Well they had her in intensive care." And she said, "I know that. They put everybody in intensive care to see if they're going to die or not, you know." And I said, "Well God, that's awful." But Inez was that way, real blunt. And she said, "And I hear you said you was never going to cut your hair again too." I said, "Yeah." She said, "Well she don't want you to cut your hair again, right?" And I said no. She said, "Oh, you'll cut that hair." And I said, "No, I promised Granny I would never cut my hair again." She said, "Oh, you'll cut that hair." So back and forth. And I finally said, "So are you a fortune teller now? You got your crystal ball back in the bedroom there? You're going to go look?" She said no. And I said, "So you can see the future then somehow?" No. "My past, honey, is your future. That's what you've got to look forward to." And she said, "And you will cut that hair when you get the mini-paws." And at that age, I thought, "Mini-paws? Get the mini-paws?" And I saw in my mind all these little creatures coming out of the woods, like little rabbits and raccoons with the mini-paws. They're going to put them on your body and put little marks and mini-paws. And then finally I said, "Are you talking about the change of life?" And she said, "No, I'm talking about the mini-paws." And I said, "And why exactly would the mini-paws cause me to cut my hair." She said, "Because you'll get them hot flashes and they'll just run all over you like a dose of salt, or like the Lord itself had laid its hand right on top of your head. And it will just run through you. It starts right there and it will just run all over you, rips your head all over, just wringing wet. And you'll cut that hair." And I said, "Well, we'll see." And she said, "But you won't have to worry about it, honey, because you won't lose no time working that hair because you'll be too busy working on your beard and mustache after the mini-paws." And I always said, well I told my daughter the same thing. And I said, "You know what's awful is they're always right. They were always right. It never failed." So working on your beard and mustache. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. Well that was -- yeah, like you said, you mentioned before that she had sort of no filter. >> Sheila Kay Adams: No filter between her brain and mouth at all. She would say whatever came to mind. >> Stephen Winnick: And that also made her your primary source for dirtier songs, wasn't she? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. Dirtier, filthy. >> Stephen Winnick: I was shocked when I heard some of the songs that she sang for you. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I know, I know. That came out of my mouth. And if you remember, I didn't really want to do them, but I did, because of Branson mainly, you know, my fiddle player. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But boy, they were -- a friend of mine said, "There's a difference in vulgar and raunchy. And these are raunchy." >> Stephen Winnick: Well I think it's interesting for people to know that that was actually part of this tradition too. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: But it didn't get collected very much because you wouldn't sing those in front of people you didn't know. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That's right. And you know, Cecil Sharp collected a bunch of them because Aunt Zip herself, who lived to be 112, told me that, "Well you know, I didn't just sing four nights for him. I sang all seven of them." He left them out. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: The raunchy verses. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And the other thing was that, I just think the raunchy songs were taught a lot to the boys. And when they finally got a girl that was interested, Granny and Berzil knew too. They just didn't say much. Boy, Inez, it didn't bother her a bit. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. Well that sort of brings up another part of the tradition that you mentioned briefly that's also big, which is the sacred songs. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: So you sung those as a kid as well, didn't you? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Oh yeah. And you know, we had every flavor of Baptist style that you could imagine. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Hard shell Baptist, free will Baptist, missionary Baptist, regular Baptist, plain old Baptist. Born in the shadow of the cross, again Baptist. Primitive Baptist, progressive primitive Baptist, foot washing Baptist, holy rolling Baptist and buzzard Baptist. And the buzzard Baptists were those how only went to church when there was a funeral, so that's why we called them buzzard Baptists. But Daddy used to say the Baptist churches were about to swarm there around home like a beehive. Go down the road before they'd cut down three and build yet another Baptist church. So we had plenty of Baptist churches. And I can remember as a girl going from one Baptist church to another and sitting outside. You know, because if you were missionary Baptist, you couldn't go to no hard shell Baptist. That might lead you down the road, you know, where you didn't want to go. But I would sit on the bank and listen to them sing. And regular Baptists were kind of boring I thought because they all sung in this same -- there was no harmony because that was ornamentation to the song. But boy, some of the rest of those Baptists -- southern Baptists, the harmony was just spot on. And then they'd have the shape note singings, yeah. Sacred songs was a big part of it. And I think one influenced the other, Steve. And I've not figured out how it went. If the balanced singing, kind of those pauses in size and all, influenced the scene of the sacred songs, or if it was the other way around: the sacred songs influenced what was being sung about. >> Stephen Winnick: Right, and it could have been both and you'd never be able to really pry it apart. You did learn to sing harmony, didn't you? >> Sheila Kay Adams: I did. >> Stephen Winnick: Singing school, right? >> Sheila Kay Adams: With Chaz. He would do a couple of weeks in the summertime. And he would have what he called singing school. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And everybody had a shape note book. And we did the Christian harmony, you know, which is based on the seven shapes as opposed to the four like the sacred art. And he would teach us the shapes because you know, soul, round, like the sun. Do, you know, looks like you sat down on something pointed and made it flat. No little trapezoid. And "Do." >> Stephen Winnick: That's a good one. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Mi, you know. Mi loves diamonds. And so that's how he taught all of us. >> Stephen Winnick: Interesting. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, it was really cool. So yeah, we did just about a little bit of every kind of music. The Carter Family, oh everybody loved the Carter Family. And Jimmy Rogers. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And they listened to the radio. I mean, it wasn't that isolated. Except you know, in the 30's we didn't have any except for Irving Ramsey. And Irving Ramsey had dental work done. >> Stephen Winnick: Gotcha. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And the radio waves were conducting through his dental work and they would prop his mouth open, Steve, put him on the store porch in a chair. >> Stephen Winnick: Really? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes, with ice cream sticks to prop his mouth open, and listen to John Brinkley down in Del Rio, you know, south of the border, live, 7:00 at night on Saturday nights. >> Stephen Winnick: Right, the Mexican radio. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That's right. Biggest one ever in the northern hemisphere. And the Carter Family would sing. >> Stephen Winnick: That's right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: On the sunny side. >> Stephen Winnick: Amazing. So yeah, so now we've talked about some of the songs, but you also have a career as a storyteller, and that's another interesting part of what you do. So how did that begin? >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, I'm not really sure how that began, because I had been touring and doing music since the early '90's full time, you know, because I taught school of 18 years in the public school system. And then I went out on the road playing music. And in 1997 I got invited to Jonesburough which is the big international storytelling festival that goes on the first week in October. And if you ain't been, you ought to. Because you'd love it. It's fabulous. And thousands and thousands of people go now. But see, I always looked at it as just conversation. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Because my daddy and his brothers -- I think I've told you, daddy's mother and father had 13 children, all of them boys except for two twin girls born right in the middle of them. But you want to talk about a job that I would not apply for, but that's one of them. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And they just kind of roamed about and did what they wanted to, but they would sit at the family reunion and get started talking. And it was like this brother, Uncle Nolan, would have one version. Daddy would have another version, and Uncle Wayne and Uncle Garlan would chime in and Uncle Andy would say something. And it was phenomenal to listen to them talk about. But I got some great stories. My daddy and Uncle Wayne went out and gathered up two tow sacks full of possums one night, alive. And brought them back and right before daylight they opened -- because nobody in Sodham kept their doors locked. They opened Granny Bear's door and just threw both open bags of possums into her cabin and closed the door. And she said, "I'm going to tell your mommy on you, because I have gathered possums out of every crook and cranny of this whole cabin. And I am wore slap out." And that was two days later. So Daddy said there must have been 150 possums in those two bags. So they were natural born storytellers. And if they couldn't find one to tell, they'd just create one. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. Well, it's interesting, because you know, when I was young, if you heard the term storyteller and when there was a storytelling festival, it was mostly people telling old traditional folktales. And nowadays it's much more common for this kind of family story to be the story that gets told. So I guess that's part of how your stories would become part of this scene. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right. Because unlike Ray Hicks and Rose and Stanley Hicks and that crowd down around Beach Mountain, my family did not tell jack tales or the grandfather tales. Granny had one story she told about Big and Little Nippy, which would have been Big Jack, Little Jack, same story. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But they were more into singing the songs and playing music and frolicking and dancing. And so they were not those kind of stories. But they had all these family stories that they passed down, and some of them will just curl your eyebrows at the stuff those people did back in the 1800's and 1700's. >> Stephen Winnick: Well yeah, as a homeowner, the thought of someone throwing two large bags of possums into my house, you know, that would be unusual these days. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right. And the fact that she was named Granny Bear. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: See, now therein is another story. >> Stephen Winnick: That's right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Her husband had killed a sal bear as they called it. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And was skinning it out and there was a bear cub crying out in the weeds. Went and got it, took it home to Granny Bear, whose name was Martha. And she had just had a baby. And she nursed that bear cub right alongside that baby like twins and it followed her around like a durn big dog, you know. Everywhere she went, that bear was with her. And it got to be a rather big bear. And the circus came through and her husband sold it to the circus. She said, "It's just like losing one of my young'ins." And poor old thing, I guess it was. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, but it would be hard to keep supporting a full grown bear I suppose. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And it's still a bear. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, it's still a bear, exactly. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That's how she got her name, Granny Bear. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. Well one thing that we're very happy to have here at the American Folk Life Center is the collection of the national storytelling festival. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Absolutely. I thought that was a fabulous move on both parties. Yeah, that was great. >> Stephen Winnick: So your performances from that festival will be here in the library as well. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep, and I'm going back this year. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. So there's one festival performance that was sort of big in your life. And because I asked about storytelling, we kind of jumped over it. So let's jump back to the Smithsonian Folk Life Festival when you first went there. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, that would have been the bicentennial celebration of 1976. And I would have been 23 at that time. And you know how you are at 23. You're just fresh out of college and you know everything. I mean, gosh, you learned everything. There's nothing else that's going to -- I mean, when we went to Washington that year for the bicentennial celebration for the Smithsonian, I don't think I've ever worked as hard for so little money in my entire life. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Because they worked me to death. It was something all the time, but it was good stuff. >> Stephen Winnick: So you came up with your whole family? >> Sheila Kay Adams: I did. I came up with them as a singer, as one of the singers. And it was really weird because you had Evan Ramsey who was probably 20, 30, maybe even 40. Not quite 40 years older than me, and then me. So people would come up at the festival and ask if I was a volunteer, knew where the first aid tent was. Uh-uh. No. Gosh, I don't know. "Oh my God, she's one of them," and would point at the old gals over here. And Chaz was -- I just left him up to Bobby McMillan. You know, Bobby was up here at that time too and started hanging out with us. They got to know my family and they adored Bobby and he adored them. And so it was just a real interesting festival to be -- and that was like I said, one of the first big events that we'd ever gone anywhere together with each other. But I drove the Station Wagon from Ashville to Raleigh, and then we flew on the plane from Raleigh after they had to take a gun. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Snub-nosed .38 from Granny, all six chambers loaded and ready to go. They had to take it away from her down at the airport in Raleigh-Durham. Because you know, it wasn't as bad as it is now, but you could still get on a plane in Raleigh and wind up in Libya. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so, yeah, it took me 30 minutes to convince -- I didn't think she could find Libya on the globe if her literal life depended on it. And so they finally said, "Well, all right." And she said, "What about my gun?" They sent it up to the pilot, which gives me great you know comfort now to think of that. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But yeah, they sent it up with the pilots in two separate sandwich bags. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. So the ammunition came out, I take it. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And they took the bullets from her. >> Stephen Winnick: Right, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Which she complained about the rest of her life. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. Also they never gave those back, just the gun. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Nope, just the gun. >> Stephen Winnick: That was probably sensible though. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I would say in DC, probably really sensible. There's no telling what she'd have done up there. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But it was a very -- they had a ball. You know, it was one of the few times -- the only time I guess that most of them had been here to the nation's capital. >> Stephen Winnick: Sure. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And you know, me being the great world traveler, having flown from home to Philadelphia once one way, but at the same time we were housed at Georgetown University and Barzil got lost down in the works as she called it, trying to find the bathroom. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Which was four doors down on the right on the hall we were staying at. But she had been downstairs in like the furnace room in the basement, wandering around looking for a bathroom for two hours. And she said, "Well I just feel foolish. You showed us where that bathroom was and I've been down in the works." And immediately red flag, red flag. "Uh, what works?" And she said, "You know, down there where they keep the suitcases and stuff." And I said, "Suitcases?" "Well you have to go down all these steps." And I said to myself, "Okay, an 86-year-old woman is wandering around down in the works while you are out singing and raising cane with Bobby McMillan?" And then as soon as I get back, you know, the knocks started on the door. They got up at 4:00, 4:30 in the morning every day. I remember Granny saying, "Yep, time to get up. Gosh it's quarter to 5:00. Half a day is done gone." That would be 5:00 AM. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But that festival was a real eye opener I think for me because I don't think I've ever laughed as much in my entire life. Because these were grown-up people. And they did exactly what they wanted to and did not care who heard them, saw them. They didn't even notice all these other people wandering around. They'd just get cussed out and everything else, walking down the sidewalks. People would gather around you. Or one of them would just bust into song. I remember Evelyn Ramsey singing -- ooh, it gives me cold chills right now -- Black is the Color of my True Love's Hair, standing on some corner you know in Georgetown. She just got happy, wanted to sing. And sung Black is the Color. And she must have had 300 people around her standing there on that corner. >> Stephen Winnick: Sure. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: At the festival, like you said, you had seen the whole mall full of people. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Oh yeah, and they would follow us around after Inez did her little do. You know, she told dirty jokes from the big stage. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so I thought, "Nobody will ever come to your concert or see us ever again." >> Stephen Winnick: She knew what she was doing. >> Sheila Kay Adams: It was packed. Everywhere we went there was standing room only and they were having to roll the tents all up and do all that stuff, because -- well I think, yeah, she probably did know what she was doing. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. Well it's interesting because you know, you were joking that she had no filter at all. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. >> Stephen Winnick: But then you told the story and sang the song that she did at the festival. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right. >> Stephen Winnick: And although it's a tease song, it wasn't really a dirty song given the songs that she could have sung. >> Sheila Kay Adams: She said, "You know what, it's only dirty in somebody else's mind." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Wherever their mind takes them. I ain't got no charge over that. But you're right, she didn't sing Crawling and Creeping, and she didn't sing Sweet Betsy, and she didn't sing a bunch of those that she could have sung, thankfully. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. Yeah, so I mean in a way she had a filter. >> Sheila Kay Adams: There was a wee bit of a filter. >> Stephen Winnick: As I said, she knew what she was doing. Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And you know, when she was talking to me in the hospital and she said, "You see about things. Take care of things," she said, "I didn't mean to embarrass you up there. I hope I didn't." And I said, "Up where?" And she said, "Up yonder in Washington." And I said, "Honey, you didn't embarrass me." And she said, "Well damn, I meant to. I really did mean to." And she said, "You just needed straightening out and reminding where you came from. Don't you get above your raising. Don't ever get above your raising. You're fine just like you are." And that was one of the things that they gave me, was a certain kind of confidence, a strength. And recognizing that strength. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Which has gotten me through a lot. >> Stephen Winnick: It's gotten you through a lot and I mean, first of all, a performance career isn't easy. >> Sheila Kay Adams: No. >> Stephen Winnick: And so it's gotten you that. But other things as well. I mean, let's talk a little bit about your film work, the consulting you did for Song Catcher. What was that like? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well it was really interesting. I got a phone call and I'm not even sure what the exact date was, but it was something like -- I don't know -- '94, '95. From this woman who said she was a film director from New York. And immediately I went to attention and red flag, red flag. And she said, "And my husband and I, David Mansfield, we're thinking about doing a film based loosely on the life of Ollie Dane Campbell. And would you be interested in helping us with the songs and the singers?" Because Cecil Sharp had a huge influence on what eventually happened concerning Ollie Dane Campbell. And I said, "Well, let me think about it." And so I made some phone calls because I seriously at that point in the '90's took my role in keeping this -- because you know, Granny had just died in '93 and Chaz in '91. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: I mean it was just like dominoes since Inez had died. So at that point I was taking it really serious about the love and passion I have and that they have and that my family has had for a long time about these songs that are ancient. I mean, some of them are -- I know one about Eleanor's Confessions -- and who was she married to? Henry III or something like that, wasn't it, or V? >> Stephen Winnick: I think it was early. It might have been Henry II. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Henry II, that's right. And then when the Normans invaded the Saxons. And so these songs go back forever. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And somebody had carried them over here in their heart and then passed them down into Granny's and Berzil's and Inez's heart and they shared them with me. And their main goal was to get them into the next century. And so it became you know, obvious that I was going to have to be prepared to do that too. >> Stephen Winnick: And so that influenced your sort of decision on that film? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, it did. As a matter of fact, I don't mind telling you, it was Wayne Martin in North Carolina who is now our wonderful, fabulous head of the arts council in North Carolina. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And he's done so much good work down there for the arts. He said, "Well, you know, Sheila, somebody's going to do it." >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: "And why not make sure it's done right?" They called me from Sundance, Maggie and David did. And Aiden Quinn. They were all three at Sundance. And they were going to fly me out to Sundance because the music in the film, Song Catcher, was winning so many awards. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And I couldn't go. But it was all right, because that's what I hoped would happen. You know, the authenticity of the songs and the music. >> Stephen Winnick: And you had some people in the film who were traditional singers, and others who weren't, who you had to teach how to do it. What was that like? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Emmy Rossum was a child prodigy opera star. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: As a matter of fact, she was the latest female character cast for Phantom of the Opera. Yeah. And so she was very, very talented. Beautiful young gal. And boy, I didn't realize at the time that an opera singer basically mimics the sounds. They don't really learn all those languages. Right. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so what she was catching was every inflection that came from my accent. And boy she would sing those dadgum things back to me. And it was almost like listening to me sing. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And Jim my husband then came back and said, "I thought you didn't sing in Song Catcher." I said, "I didn't." He said, "Well I just heard you on the radio. I heard you on NPR singing." And I said, "Jim, that was Emmy Rossum." "No, it was not. We've been married a long time. And I think I would know when." And I said, "Jim, it was Emmy Rossum." And it was. And then there was Bobby McMillan, sang with Hazel Dickens. And one of the actors sang Beth O Death. And then there was Phil Jamison. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You know, local history professor that danced with the big long legs that looked like that stick that you pack. But gosh, he can dance. And so there were regular actors and then there were homegrown folks. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. And I'll mention just for the people who might watch this video that Bobby McMillan and Phil Jamison are both scholars of this tradition as well. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes, they are. >> Stephen Winnick: Phil mostly in dance. That there's a certain crossover between the performers and scholars as well. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And Hazel Dickens. And Hazel, you know. She sang a verse in it as well. And Iris Demen was in it if I remember. >> Stephen Winnick: That's right. I think you're right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep, and she sang Chaz's version of Pretty Sarah. Yep. And Josh Goforth, a cousin of mine, played fiddle. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: For their soiree. >> Stephen Winnick: So you were able to sort of put together an authentic music for this film? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well I worked close with David. David Mansfield is a genius when it comes to -- I mean, he can play every instrument, write music, you know, do all that stuff. And he is a fabulous composer, done a lot of soundtracks, that kind of thing. But he loved the music in Song Catcher. You know, he's a great fiddle player and banjo player too. And we've kept in touch. I mean, I thought that David did such a great job with the music in that film that I will forever be indebted to Maggie and to David Mansfield. >> Stephen Winnick: Well you did a great job. They're indebted to you. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Thank you. And they really appreciated it too and they made it obvious. >> Stephen Winnick: That's great. So the other thing that you've been doing lately is writing books, right? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes. >> Stephen Winnick: So tell us about your writing. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well, like we talked about earlier, the first book was a book of storytelling, or just stories that I had heard or been a part of you know in my growing up over there around home. And then the second one was based on a story -- and the short story collection was published by the University of North Carolina press. And my favorite Appalachian writer, Lee Smith, had a lot to do with that. Lee has written several books about mountain women. And she wrote one called fair and tender ladies that is just the best one I've ever read about a mountain woman. And so she was very influential with that. And then I wrote a novel based on a story that Daddy told me about two cousins that went off to the Civil War and they left their womenfolk and families behind them, and what happened to the women while they were gone. It's pretty gruesome in the mountains, southern Appalachians. It really was. Especially North Carolina. Because western North Carolina voted to stay in the union. And the rest of the state voted to leave the union. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And so it was a little iffy there for a while as to whether the mountains would say in the state of North Carolina, yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And both books did you know fairly well. I was really pleased with how well they did. The novel was first published by Al Gonkwin of Chapel Hill, and then it got picked up by Random House. So you know, it's paper back so I thought, "Well shoot." But I've got one more book in me I think. Actually I've got several. I'm working on one now called The Hanging of Peter Smith. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: So you already know then, Peter Smith's going to get hung. But it's told from the perspective of four women, different women who tell different stories about Peter Smith but they all lead to the gallows, you know. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: And that's a true story. Because Peter Smith was the last man legally hung in the state of North Carolina. >> Stephen Winnick: All right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. But I've got one I want to write about my family's take or you know, the way they looked at outsider folklorists coming in and collecting their songs. And how it went form Cecil Sharp to -- gosh, who was the last. I guess Alan Lomax is the last one in the '80's, early '80's, '83. >> Stephen Winnick: So was he with a video crew at that time? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. And he had a crew of more than one, yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: He had a larger crew than John Cohen did. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: But I would really love to write that story about some of the things that they said happened. And some things I witnessed myself, like Doral Chandler dressing up like a woman. That really happened. And it was on a dare. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. I think it's funny because I think a lot of people watched the film and they don't actually notice that. You know, it just kind of goes over their heads. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Gosh, I don't know how. Because you know, his shoulders are this broad, big hairy legs hanging down. >> Stephen Winnick: I know, but I've mentioned it to several people and they've said, "I don't remember that part." So whatever. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. Well so in your community now, in Madison County, there's sort of a revival of the ballads. I mean, a lot of kids are collecting them and singing them. What part did you play in that, and how is that going? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well it's really interesting because when -- and you know, now that I think about it, Song Catcher back in the late '90's kind of you know boosted some of my cousins along. Donna Ray Norton, one of the best ballad singers I've ever heard -- she's about 35 maybe now. And she's absolutely stunningly authentic. My daughter is a great singer, Melanie. And it was kind of that Song Catcher, just like John Cohen did for me and Cecil Sharp did for Granny and that crowd. You know, kind of gave them a little lift. And then there were these kids that started coming to me. Elizabeth Laprel, who is I think one of the best ballad singers that ever stood upright and walked. Sam Gleaves, same thing. One of the best ones I've ever heard. And around home we've got Ash Devine, who is such a great ballad singer. She's from southwestern Virginia. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Right around where Doc Watson is from. Sarah Lynch Thompson who is a fabulous activist and ballad singer. And Branson Raines, my little fiddle player. His voice has gotten -- it's just cream of the crop now, you know. So there's a bunch. And my grandson Ezra who will be 11 in May. About a month ago he was spending the night with me and I was talking to him while he was you know getting settled in his bed. He said, "You know them old songs we sing?" and I said, "Yeah." He said, "You know any about people killing anybody?" I didn't ask you know if he'd gotten into like harming animals or anything. But he just said, "No, mama put in one of your CD's and I really liked one of them." And I said, "Oh really? Which one did you like?" He said, "It's about a drunk man." And I thought, "Okay, Four Nights Drunk. Here we go." But he can sing Four Nights Drunk and Jerusalem Morn. But it's my granddaughter who's coming along too. She's missing her two front teeth right now and she's embarrassed to sing right now. But Carlie Rose can sing. And with a name like that, Carlie Rose, oh yeah. She loves the old songs and loves to -- she doesn't know the words. She'll be seven this year. But she doesn't know all the words, but she'll make them up, tell the same story. Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: So a lot of these singers that you're talking about are relatives of yours. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes. >> Stephen Winnick: Some of them not. But another thing you've been doing is going to places like Augusta and teaching in a more kind of almost academic way where people come to you from all over the country to learn ballads. So how does that differ? What is that like? >> Sheila Kay Adams: If there's a young person in that crowd, I can guarantee you they'll be at my house spending the night within six months. Because I'll bore in on the young folks. Because you know, that's where it is. That's what it's all about. It's about handing -- well nobody said it better than Cecil Sharp. He said, "From birth we are given this right to these songs. They belong to us." And so that's what I tell these kids. And boy, they come just like shots, you know. And they'll spend -- Sam spent a whole summer at my house, you know. And it's just wonderful. Branson was there for two years. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yeah, so that's what it's all about. It's about passing it down, passing it on. >> Stephen Winnick: All right, that's a great sentiment to have. We love to hear that because we're involved on the other end in collecting these things and keeping the collections for future generations. And the fact that you're doing the same thing just as a person, you're an archive, teaching it to them. So that's wonderful. One other thing I wanted to mention is the fact that you're the recipient of a National Heritage Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts. So tell us about what that was like. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well, as you know, Steve, my husband Jim committed suicide in 2009 in March. And I felt -- I didn't know if I was going to make it through it or not. But the funniest thing happened. I started to remember these songs that came from Granny. Because she would say, "You know, laugh or cry, honey, sing a song. Laugh or cry, sing a song. That's what's going to make you better. That's what's going to heal you." And so it was like I just forgot about the here and now and I just leaned back, closed my eyes and fell back into the arms of all those loving women with all those songs. And Jeff Warner who's the son of Frank and Ann Warner -- another great team of collector all over North Carolina, you know. >> Stephen Winnick: We've got their collection to. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yes, you do. And I'm going to look at it tomorrow too. He came to me and Jeff is such a fine and nice and wonderful person. And he said, "Sheila, I'm so sorry to hear about Jim. And I want to teach you a song." And I thought to myself, "I do not believe that he just said he wants to teach me a song now, three months after Jim's death." And he said, "No, this is one, Sheila, I promise you've got to learn this song." And he taught it to me. He sat down and I learned it the old style. He'd sing it, I'd sing it back to him. He'd sing it, I'd sing it back to him. And that's how I learned it. And it was Her Bright Smile Haunts Me Still, that was collected out on the outer banks by his parents. And isn't that amazing? >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: It looped around the world, you know. Because that song that she sang was the song that they sang on New Year's Eve when the guy went around and checked the gates for all these little pounds in Scotland. >> Stephen Winnick: Okay. >> Sheila Kay Adams: That was the one that he sang in this little place I think called Iverness. >> Stephen Winnick: Okay. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Or Iberness. And so it went from there to the outer banks to -- is it New Hampshire? >> Stephen Winnick: I think it was New Hampshire, yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: To New Hampshire, back to western North Carolina and then I took it back to England and sang it this past summer. >> Stephen Winnick: Very nice. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Nice. >> Stephen Winnick: So Her Bright Smile Haunts Me Still. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. Only I changed the words to His Bright Smile Haunts Me Still. Yeah. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. So I mean, that experience is sort of one of the universal experiences I think that people who perform or who have traditional songs in their background have. Which is you know, these tragedies happen to us and then we realize that well, these tragedies have happened before to generations of people. >> Sheila Kay Adams: For thousands of years, that's right. >> Stephen Winnick: And here it is in the songs that I already know and that I already sing. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Yep. And you know, that's a gift to be given those songs. And to be given that knowledge that it ain't just you, honey. And somehow they made it through. >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, but then a couple of years later, to get that recognition. >> Sheila Kay Adams: To get the NEA award, that was in 2013. And Jim died in 2009. And so when Barrie Burgett got ahold of me, you know to tell me that I'd gotten it, I thought he was calling me to ask me to MC the event. Because I thought maybe something had happened to Nick, you know. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Nick Spister who usually does it. And he said, "No, no. I want you to come up here and get yours and take it back to North Carolina with you." And I just started bawling. I was mowing the grass. It's one of those I'll always remember where I was when I got the news from that. And then I found out George Hold had worked so hard and tirelessly to get all the material and all that stuff together. He and Wayne Martin. And I mean, getting that award, Steve, really lifted me out of that hole. You know, and gave me the incentive. Because when you get an award for keeping alive something that was given to you, what are you going to do? Go home and sit down? >> Stephen Winnick: Right. >> Sheila Kay Adams: No. You're going to keep going and working with these young people. Because that's why you were recognized. And it saved my life. It absolutely saved my life, getting that award. And I am so appreciative of the National Endowment for the Arts. It has done so much for so many people. Two of my family members received that award. Doug Lawler and me. >> Stephen Winnick: That's right. So we didn't talk about Doug at all. We talked about Chaz. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Doug and I were cousins. And for that to happen in one little tiny community is pretty impressive. And you know, to have gotten the North Carolina Heritage award in '16. But it's not about the awards. It's about getting the recognition for having done something you love and have a passion for, and them saying, "Good job. Good job." You know. And that means a lot. And I'll be forever grateful. Because they saved my life. The NEA saved my life. >> Stephen Winnick: Well another thing that that sort of prompted you to do I think is do more touring in the last few years. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Absolutely. Well, let's put it this way, it's enabled me. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. Sure. >> Sheila Kay Adams: It encouraged me and enabled me. Because when they hear that National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship, you know, then they're more interested in having you come and do. >> Stephen Winnick: Right. So you've been pretty much everywhere. You've been to Australia. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Australia this time last year. In August I was in England for five weeks, all over England doing those big festivals and all. And then I was in France, in Paris and Normandy in December. >> Stephen Winnick: So how does it differ, taking these songs to audiences from other countries which aren't so local and so aware of the tradition? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Do you know that in Australia I had people come up after concerts crying and saying, "I have not thought of that song in 60 years, since my grandmother sang it." Because you know, we're all the same. I mean, all over the world. It doesn't matter whether we're English speaking. It doesn't matter. In France, you know, they would come up, "Merci, merci." Because if you have something that you have spent a lifetime -- you know, 64 years. Let's face it, that's a lot of time. That's six and a half decades, right? >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah. >> Sheila Kay Adams: So if you're that interested in it, it must be worth something. And if you can ever get people to sit still long enough -- and there was one man who came up and said, "Same versions, same songs here, sung in French." >> Stephen Winnick: Yeah, there are some of those too. Isn't that interesting? >> Sheila Kay Adams: Very interesting, yes. [Inaudible] we have here. >> Stephen Winnick: Very good. Well I just want to thank you for the concert and this interview and all the things that you've told us about your tradition. We really appreciate having you here and having this in our collections. It's a treasure. >> Sheila Kay Adams: Well it has been my honor to be here. And y'all do good work. Keep it up. Don't quit. Don't quit. >> Stephen Winnick: We'll try. >> Sheila Kay Adams: All right, all right. >> Stephen Winnick: Thank you. >> Sheila Kay Adams: You're welcome. Thank you. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at LOC.gov.