>> Alda Migoni: Thank you for
attending this great event,
National Hispanic
Heritage Month.
This is presented by the
Hispanic Cultural Society
of the Library of Congress.
For those of you
who are unaware,
the Hispanic Cultural Society's
mission is to empower staff,
retired and current, to
celebrate, honor the cultures
of Latin America and Hispanic
populations and Latino,
Latin X populations here in
the United States as well.
We work for events, publications
such as folkloric dancing some
of you may have attended
last week, and, again,
speaker series such as this.
So thank you so much
for your attendance.
And I will now turn it
over to the main event,
what you've all been
waiting for, Chocolate.
>> Samuel Carvalho: So,
again, thank you all
for coming here today.
We are Harper Macaw
Chocolate Makers.
We are based here
in Washington, DC.
My name is Sam, Samuel, Sam.
And this is Matt.
And as you probably
have noticed my accent,
I'm not American,
I'm from Brazil.
And that's where we
source the beans from.
So actually, I grew up in a
very traditional cocoa producing
region, it's called
etabune [phonetic].
And a part of myself now
sharing with you about the city,
because nobody knows about it.
And it's a very traditional
city.
All the economy of cocoa based.
And have you guys heard
about witches' broom?
I'm not going to go further
about it, but just want to know
if -- witches' broom,
it's a fungus
that will attack cacao trees.
Just a little bit.
In the '80s or something
like that, my grandfather,
he had a big plantation
of cacao.
And then witches' broom
came, which is a fungus,
and it attack the --
it's quite interesting
because they attack the
pods, they just turn it
into a weird color, then
turn into a black color,
and then just disappear,
the pods.
So this disease came to Brazil
probably like the late '80s,
something like that, and
destroyed all the trees,
pretty much 70% of
the land in this area.
Brazil was the first -- the
second actually back then --
largest producer, cocoa
producer, globally.
So you can think about how
bad that was for the economy.
And this came up along
with other problems,
especially inequality.
You have a lot of social
issues there in this region,
because they destroy
the whole plantation.
Now, I'm just sharing
that with you
because that's how I
started my first contact
in the cocoa industry.
And that's why I feel
so passionate about it.
In Brazil, after this
event, after this happened,
they tried to find solutions,
of course, to cure this disease.
And one of them is come up
with disease-resistant trees,
cacao trees.
And one of them, it's
hybrid, seed's hybrid pods,
and [inaudible], which is
kind of like a hybrid --
actually I think they found
these pods and they just noticed
that I it's disease-resistant.
It's exactly what happened
to human beings, right.
Sometimes disease like
come up and you say, oh,
this person here has
disease-resistance
to this disease for some reason,
they don't know how
to explain it.
But it just use better
technologies to replicate
and use in all the like trees.
And now that's the kind of seeds
they use in this region to try
to restore this area,
this cacao area.
And that's one solution
they came up with.
There is another solution
that I want to talk about,
it's agroforestry,
agroforestry based, cacao.
Which is you grow
cacao alongside
or inter-crop alongside all
the trees, native trees.
So for example, you plant cacao,
and with cacao you plant
banana and [inaudible].
Have you guys heard
about [inaudible] before?
Have you? Okay, she's
saying yeah.
So I think it's originally from
Brazil, but maybe it's not,
but it's very popular in Brazil.
It's delicious.
And they grow alongside and
disease kind of like, of course,
like helping different station
of this land, this area.
And that's what I used to say.
That's exactly what
happens to us, people say.
The more colorful your food
is, the healthier it is, right?
That's what people say.
So if you have a bunch of stuff,
different stuff, there's going
to be more vitamins,
more nutrients.
So that's exactly the
same principle kind of.
So you have the cocoa and you
have [inaudible], you have acai,
banana, other fruits,
growing alongside the cacao.
You're going to have these
nutrients just pulling like go
into the soil, providing
more nutrients.
And this is going to keep the
cacao of course more resistant
against like diseases,
as like human beings,
exactly the same I think.
And at the same time,
this is going to give --
that's what is very important
for us, that's what we try
to do the company, give a
very distinct flavor profile.
So, of course, this
is going to change --
I also use to say people -- I
think it was, yeah, my uncle,
he had it in the
backyard, a cacao tree.
And he had like [inaudible]
and also had all the trees
and he was also like
planting cane sugar
and a lot of other stuff.
And the cacao that
I first tasted
in this tree was
different than the cacao
that I tried in a farm.
My father's friend, he
had like this big farm
and he was doing
monocropping, of course,
which means just growing
cocoa and nothing else.
And they're just different.
The cocoa in his backyard was
like more mellowx and fruity
and tasty and it's just
delicious and just like --
we have pictures of cocoa here?
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
>> Samuel Carvalho: We are going
to see what I'm talking about.
Yeah, because the cacao,
the pulp actually that goes
like around the seed,
it's totally different.
It doesn't taste like
chocolate at all,
it's completely different.
But this is going
to be responsible
for the fermentation
process and everything else.
But maybe we can
talk about it later.
But that's what I want to
do here in the company.
And that's what --
speaking about like Brazil
and Latin America, we are
kind of like the pioneers
in agroforestry based cacao.
70% of cocoa comes
from West Africa.
And basically all the
plantations there,
they are monocropping-based,
monocropping-based.
And that's -- okay, this is
not good, this is not good.
Of course, this is going to
be bring back deforestation.
This is not good for diversity
of the environment,
everything else.
But this is also is not going
to give a very rich flavor
to the chocolate, to
the actual chocolate,
in the end of the process.
And why? We used to
say 75% of the flavor's
in the chocolate part, in
the fine chocolate part.
Now our chocolate part,
they come from 25%
fermentation process,
25% the genetic of the cacao.
If you have a good genetic,
it's going to give a different
profile, flavor profile.
And 25% is going to
be the environment.
So in 25%, it's going to be
like our chocolate
making process here.
So it's very important
for us for like
to give a very good flavor
profile in the chocolate part
that you know where
your beans come from,
where you're sourcing the beans.
The way you're providing
your beans.
What environment
those beans come from.
And that's it.
So we have like a
good expectation,
a positive expectation,
for Latin America overall,
as opposed to monocropping,
especially in West Africa.
Of course, they're helping
lots of family in West Africa,
but also some of those lands,
they use child labor and other
like slave labor
and things that we,
of course, don't support at all.
So agroforestry based cacao,
as opposed this method
of plantation, is bringing
also this other concept,
which means fair trade.
We want to make sure that
we don't use brokers.
We don't use middleman.
We'll buy the beans
directly from the farmers.
So that means they're going
to give usually three times
more the commodity price cocoa.
>> Matthew Dixon:
It's more like eight.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Yeah.
>> Matthew Dixon:
Eight times more.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Yeah.
Maybe now the dollar
as opposed to Real,
which is the Brazilian
currency, it's like very high.
But it's eight times more.
So you pay more only
for the flavor itself
but because it's the
right thing to do.
You know, you're just
trying to make sure
that [inaudible]
and everything else.
So we have like a good scenario,
a positive expectation
for Latin America.
In Brazil, for example,
they just approved --
it's the Brazilian forest code.
And they are obligating
farms when they just clear,
using like specialty
[inaudible] and stuff like that.
You'll clear the trees, you'll
clear the land, you're obligated
by law to reforest a portion of
this area using native trees.
So it's kind of like using the
agroforestry system, by law,
required by law, in
using your plantation.
So it's not only --
it's becoming like something
institutionalized now,
this process.
So hopefully this is
what's going to happen
in Latin America, this resource
the beans primarily from Brazil,
but it also like source the
beans from Dominican Republic,
and they also have very good
beans, also agroforestry based.
We see like a very good
scenario in Brazil,
in Latin America overall
to use this kind of system.
And we are 10 years, and
hopefully this is what's going
to happen like in
the near future.
There's a gap in the
supply, in the cocoa supply,
that needs to be fulfilled,
especially for fine chocolate.
People more like aware of the
benefits of a good chocolate.
For example -- I
don't know if --
there is no one here works
for Hershey's, right?
But Hershey's has like
about 5-6% chocolate.
Maybe less than that.
>> Matthew Dixon:
The legal requirement
to call it chocolate is 10%.
And Hershey's is like 10.1.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
So that's why --
actually, and people ask
me, do you like Hershey's?
Yes, but it's not chocolate,
it's candy with some
chocolate in it, you know.
>> Matthew Dixon: It's
wax with chocolate.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Yes, right.
Sometimes we like [inaudible],
you don't think about it.
I should not say that.
But like yeah, so there
is a gap in supply.
There is also a growing
demand for fine chocolate.
And that's the tendency
like saying
that the agroforestry
based plantations,
they're growing in Brazil.
The new plantations in the
north of Brazil are growing
as well, which is new.
Because traditionally,
as I said,
in my region -- which
is [inaudible].
Have you all heard about
[inaudible], Brazil?
Yeah, this region's
very like traditional.
Okay, great.
And like the north of
Brazil, they're starting now,
20 years ago, farming
cocoa, fine cocoa,
and agroforestry based as well.
And pretty much all of
them is cooperatives.
So the farmers, the workers,
they're also the
owners of this business.
And that's it.
You can like show some.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
So I'm going to like take over
from Sam, where Sam left off.
My name is Matt.
I'm the other owner
of Harper Macaw.
A little bit of my history.
I came to chocolate
just from growing
up with a passion
for food and candy.
And I am a graduate of the
Culinary Institute of America.
And chocolate and bread
were my two big passions,
so when I had the opportunity
to come here and work
for Harper Macaw and
eventually own the company,
it was just I couldn't
pass that up.
So that's kind of
how I ended up here.
But part of what Sam covered
and touched on that we do
as a company is we are really
committed to kind of changing
that landscape, especially
in chocolate,
of not great farming practices
that have been really widespread
in the chocolate industry
and also not great
socioeconomic practices.
Basically what Sam was
saying is chocolate
on the commodity market,
which is mainly what comes
from West Africa, is sold for
less than a dollar a kilo.
Which means that the workers
in those places that grow
that chocolate and
is their livelihood,
they're getting paid
pennies a day, sometimes less
in some circumstances.
So that's part of why we have
a commitment to direct trade
and to paying more
for our chocolate
and paying the farmers directly.
When there's no middleman, when
you're avoiding all that stuff,
the farmers get the
money that they deserve
and there's no one along the
line taking money from them.
Which is also really important.
And one of the things that
we have a strong connection
to Brazil, not just
because Sam is from there,
but because Brazil, after
the witches broom blight,
it took about a decade
for Brazil to recover.
And CCN 51, which Sam mentioned,
was a sort of life-saving
breed of cacao for Brazil.
It however does not
have great taste.
And in the scramble to
recover from the disease,
a lot of CCN 51 was just
indiscriminately planted
and bred into other
breeds of cacao.
And Brazil, unfortunately,
got this terrible reputation
for having less than
high-quality cocoa.
And most of its cocoa even to
this day is sold internally.
Brazil has a huge
demand internally
for chocolate and for cocoa.
And so very little
of it is exported.
That's actually been one of our
biggest challenges is we have
to import it ourselves to
get it here from Brazil.
And there's some
regions in South America
where they have larger
cooperatives and larger sort
of companies that are
doing the exportation
and you can get better
access to it here
in the States, but
not in Brazil.
So one of the things that is
one of our focuses is going
to our farms and helping
them expand outside
of the Brazilian market, and
not only that but bringing back
from Brazil cocoa that
is really great quality
and has really nice flavor.
And trying to sort of show the
industry and show the world
that like, hey, Brazil
has amazing cocoa.
It's not all CCN 51.
CCN 51 saved the
industry, but now, you know,
those genetics are there
and there's all this fine
and heritage cocoa that's
coming back in Brazil.
And that's sort of what we're
trying to do and we're trying
to do with our chocolate
and make sure
that we make it really good.
So that we can say like, hey,
everybody should take interest
in Brazil and kind of try and
revitalize this lost economy
that occurred by just a
terrible natural disaster there.
And so I'm going to start
flipping through some pictures
that sort of talk
about our sourcing.
This a picture of cacao
pods right before harvest.
These have been cut
down from the tree.
You can see, they're beautiful
after they are cut open.
This is sort of talking
about what sort
of Sam also already covered,
what we look for
in our sourcing.
We look for quality.
We look for the environmental
practices of agroforestry.
Part of what improves the
quality of cacao is growing it
in a diverse environment.
Cacao needs a canopy of other
trees around it to survive.
Cacao survives -- at different
stages of its life cycle,
it needs different
amounts of light.
So when it's young ,it
needs a lot of shade.
As it gets older and bigger, it
needs sort of some less shade,
but it still needs a canopy.
It doesn't grow well
in full sun.
And that's one of the problems
with monocropping and tearing
down all this land, like
Sam was talking about,
is the cacao just
doesn't grow as well.
It doesn't survive
as well there.
You get a lot of
quantity but not quality
through those practices.
>> Samuel Carvalho: And
you need to use chemicals
as well to make it grow.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
Because without the other
biodiversity around,
the soil is depleted.
And the only way to
continue growing the cacao is
to fertilize it.
And that's not a great
practice and it's expensive
for the farmers and they're
already struggling to survive.
So helping build
agroforestry means
that it's a little more upkeep
because you're growing
biodiverse plants,
but it's less fertilizing.
And after basically once the
system gets started and gets
in place and the life cycle
starts repeating itself,
it gets easier and
easier to care for,
because nature just
does it all on its own.
And then, of course, the
socio and economic practices,
which is making sure
that the laborer is fair,
the labor is good, people
aren't being mistreated
and everyone's getting
paid a living wage.
So this is a close-up
of a cacao clone.
This is right after it sprouted.
This is at one of the farms we
work with in Brazil, in Bahia.
This is Juliana, it's one
of our really most
intensely-flavored chocolates.
It has a lot of really,
really nice citrus qualities.
It's a beautiful, beautiful
bean that they grow there.
And so basically those
clones are taken care
of until they reach a mature
stage and they're planted.
This is kind of a view of the
workers in the clone facility.
You can see, there's probably
hundreds of these clones
that they grow and
plant every year.
This is more of harvest,
harvesting.
Again, Juliana.
You can see some of the
pods, they start sort
of that green color, that's
when they're very young.
And they become more
yellow and turn to some
of the brighter vibrant colors
that you see as they
become ripe.
There's some ripe
pods on the tree.
This is more of the harvesting.
And so here you can see that
when they come out of the pods,
they're covered in
this white pulp.
That pulp kind of tastes
like a sour fruit smoothie.
It's a really wonderful
and interesting flavor.
And part of the process of cocoa
which makes it so complicated
on both ends of producing
chocolate is once it's harvested
and pulled from those
pods, it has to be brought
to fermentation very
quickly or it rots.
So we have some pictures.
This is the Dominican Republic.
This statue is in San
Francisco de Macoris.
It's one of the areas where a
lot of high cocoa production is
in the Dominican Republic.
And just like Brazil, cocoa is
a major part of the economy.
It was one of like the only like
staple crops in those regions
and everybody grows it.
People are growing it, like Sam
mentioned, in their backyards.
And a lot of how people
make money there is
through the cooperatives.
So people that grow it in their
backyards, they harvest it,
they bring it to a cooperative,
that cooperative ferments it,
dries it, and then sells it
under the cooperative's name.
And that's one of the
biggest challenges too
with improving the cocoa quality
and improving the working
environment, because sometimes
in a lot of these
regions there's not --
you can go to the direct
cooperative and work with them
and they work with
their farmers,
but there's not a direct way
to work with all the farmers
because the cooperative
doesn't necessarily control all
of their farms and all of where
they source their own cocoa.
But this statue was built
basically as a representation
of how important the cocoa
is to the Dominican people
and how just part of their
history and culture it is.
This is, again, we
work with another farm
in the Dominican
called [inaudible].
They're also a bird conservatory
and a land preserve there.
And I wish I could remember
the name of this fruit.
Say again.
[inaudible] That
sounds familiar.
It was really good.
It was very delicious.
But that was one of the crops
that was being grown amongst
the cacao there as part
of the biodiversity
and the agroforestry.
There, this is more harvesting.
Again, you see the white pulp.
Everything is put
in these buckets
and then it's transported
by hand further
down to the fermenter.
And I think, yeah,
there's a close-up shot.
This is, you can see the
pulp, you can see the beans.
They're kind of purple
on the inside.
This is a fermentation center.
So to cacao is fermented
in these large cedar boxes.
Basically that takes
four days to a week.
And throughout that process,
it is turned from box to box.
It's moved over from box to
box to kind of aerate it,
to keep everything circulated
and to keep everything
well mixed together.
If it's left in one box for
too long, it'll create layers
and it will ferment unevenly.
And so that's another
-- as Sam was saying,
that's another huge part of
cacao quality and it's one
of the most difficult parts
and least understood part.
Historically it was
fermented in heaps just piled
up on the ground and
covered with banana leaves
and then dried in the sun.
Which if you're in a humid
tropical environment, is really,
really difficult, because
it doesn't dry and it molds
and you lose product,
you lose crop.
So that was, again, one of those
big innovations that's been
building for many, many, many
years is fermenting inside
of a building and
drying in a covered area
out of lower altitude
out of the mountains
where the cacao is grown
and in a drier climate.
That's a close-up
of the fermentation.
They're typically
covered in banana leaves
or burlap sacks to
keep the heat in.
And this is outside of the farm.
This is an abandoned cacao
drying bed that, again,
it shows you how important
cacao was to the people
and to the native economy.
People did this in
their backyards.
This was somebody's
home where they grew
and dried their own cacao
before bringing it to market.
And these beds worked that
that roof is on a rail.
So this is actually
when you slide
that back, it exposes the bed.
And that was because of the rain
and the humidity in that area
up in the mountains, they had
to find a way to cover it.
And basically once the
cooperatives got bigger
and bigger and started
taking that process away
from people having to do it at
home, it made it a lot easier
for people to bring the
cacao to the cooperatives
and get a better
price because they cut
down on their own labor.
They didn't have to spend
all their time fermenting
and drying it themselves
and this process
and these beds were abandoned.
And this is a modernized
drying facility.
Again, this is all part
of Rosol [phonetic],
which is in Duarte,
in Dominican.
And that's the second phase
of the drying process.
It's dried initially on
those long raised beds,
which are perforated.
They're open in the top and
the bottom so air circulates.
And then the final drying,
they're spread out evenly
on just the cement
floor, and it is very hot
and it really finishes
the final dry.
This is Rosol's hand-sorting
process.
Every single bean is pulled
off of that cement floor,
spread out on this table,
it's hand-sorted for hours
by their workers, and then
bagged and shipped to us.
This is, again, another view
of the hand-sorting process
at their fermentation facility.
This is getting bags
from the hand-sorting
to where it's actually
loaded for delivery.
And it's commonly
carried like this.
And then once we get it,
we make it into chocolate,
we mold it into bars, and
we package it here in DC.
And that'll bring us
back to the beginning.
I think we were going to
open up the discussion
for some questions if you
guys want to ask us anything
about cacao and about Brazil
or Dominican Republic and sort
of us and what else we do.
>> At the beginning
of your slideshow,
it seemed like the
plants are being grown
under tree [inaudible] tents.
Is that true?
Just like tobacco in the
Connecticut River Valley.
So under [inaudible] tents
rather than shade tree?
The tents I guess
are more adaptable
because you can put them
there or take them away.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
And that's usually initially
done in the cloning process
so that the trees can reach a
certain maturity before they're
actually planted in the
normal growing environment.
So that's a temporary
holdover and it's much --
exactly for the reasons
you said.
It's much more mobile.
It's much more easy to
construct that than it is to try
and plant a clone in a shaded
area and then pull it up
and replant it at the
main growing area.
Yeah.
>> So what's the
full life cycle?
So from clone to harvest,
like what is that time frame?
How long does that take?
>> Matthew Dixon: So cacao has
two main harvests every year,
one in the like late
winter/early spring
and one in early fall.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
In the south, yeah.
>> Matthew Dixon: And
the whole life cycle,
it takes about five years to
actually receive a full harvest.
Part of -- and I didn't
have any great pictures
of it in the slideshow.
One of the many challenges of
growing cacao is the flower
that actually grows
the pod is very tiny.
It's about this big.
Some cacao is self-pollinating,
which is great,
but a lot of it isn't.
And that's part of why the
biodiversity and the lack of use
of fertilizers and pesticide
chemicals is huge for it,
because it has to be
pollinated by a midge fly,
or hand-pollinated, which
is extremely difficult
because the flowers are so tiny.
And so from pollination, it
takes about two to three months
for the pods to actually fully
enlarge, and then another month
or two for them to mature.
And most farms sort
of harvest on a cycle.
They kind of walk around the
farm when harvest season comes
around and they'll pull pods
down as they become ripe,
and then come back around
and get the next round
and so on and so forth.
But it takes, yeah, it
takes five years for a clone
to reach enough maturity to
produce a full set of pods
and then fully developed pods.
>> And then the other
things that are being grown
around them, those are
also being harvested
as well, or those are?
>> Samuel Carvalho:
Sometimes they're harvested.
But I think the main concern
actually about this system,
they just let it
fall in the soil.
This is going to
provide a more rich.
You have more nutrients
in the soil as well.
There is not much
concern about it.
So in terms of prediction wise,
they don't really [inaudible].
Also it depends on the system.
We have so many different
systems.
So I didn't talk a lot about my
background, but I used to work
in Brazil, back in Brazil,
for non-profit organizations
and help a small
enterprise to grow.
And maybe over 70% of
those companies is small
business actually.
They were rural.
So for example, people
there planting fruits
and they're trying to
find like different ways
to adding value to those fruits.
So they make jelly and sell
like the juice, whatever.
So the reason I'm saying
that because most of these
like plantations, they
are agroforestry based.
And some of them, even though
they're planting the same fruit,
they have different system.
So some of them, they use
the fruits like in salad.
For example, the
main fruit is acai,
but they have other
fruits like bananas.
Sometimes they just
take home and eat it.
Sometimes they're like in salad.
And so it depends on the farm.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
A lot of the inter-cropping
is not cacao is the focus,
so the inter-cropping is not
at like a full sort
of production scale.
So you see, just like Sam
said, you'll see a little bit
of it being sold if
there's enough of it around.
And you'll see a lot
of it either being used
as a natural fertilizer or
workers take it home and eat it
and that kind of stuff.
At Rosol, there was
bananas, plantains,
and macadamia nuts growing
amongst the cacao there
in the Dominican.
And those things were --
when they had good years for
the banana and plantains,
they would sell some of it.
When they had, you know,
off years, they didn't.
So it was varied even there.
>> Samuel Carvalho: In
[inaudible] as well.
Especially banana is very
important, because it helps
to keep nitrogen in the soil.
So that gives like a lot of
[inaudible] to the cacao,
provides like more
colorful cacao.
You can definitely see
when it's monocropping.
You can notice the difference.
I think if you dig like through
like Google and stuff like that,
you can see the color.
But you need to touch
it and feel it.
The taste is completely
different, yeah.
>> I have two practical
questions.
One is where you're located and
where you sell your chocolate?
And then the other is, if you
might just talk a little bit
about the health
benefits of eating.
>> Matthew Dixon:
Chocolate, yes.
>> Versus flavored wax.
>> Matthew Dixon:
Yes, certainly.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
Great question.
>> Matthew Dixon: So our
factory was previously located
in Northeast DC on
Bladensburg Road.
We're currently in the
process of moving our factory,
because that just wasn't
a great location for us.
We want to be closer
to people and we want
to actually put our chocolate on
full display so people can come
in and really see how it's
made and spend time with us.
So we're kind of in a
transitional phase right now.
But it looks like we're
potentially going to be
down in the Wharf in
Southeast -- Southwest.
>> Samuel Carvalho: We
already there, we have a store
down in the Wharf, we want to
turn the store into a factory.
But yeah, [inaudible].
>> Matthew Dixon: But that's
where you can find
our chocolate,
our retail booth
there in the Wharf.
We are also in Whole Foods,
and you can also buy
our chocolate online.
And we ship year round.
And if you get on our website,
you can order it directly
to your front door.
And then the health
benefits are basically
that the ingredient list on our
chocolate is it's three things.
It's cacao nibs, cacao
butter, and sugar.
And cacao nibs and cacao
butter you can kind
of call the same ingredient.
So it's maybe two ingredients.
And that basically means that
we have full transparency.
When you guys buy a chocolate
bar from us, you know exactly
where we got our ingredients.
You know everything
that's in it.
You know it didn't contribute
to anyone working themselves
to death and not getting
paid for their labor,
or any sort of poor
environmental practices.
And then the health
benefits are basically
like we don't use soy lecithin,
which, of course, is soy.
And a lot of soy intake
is not good for you.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Emulsifiers.
>>
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah,
emulsifiers are not
good for you.
Basically Hershey's, all those
waxes and paraffin and that kind
of stuff is just is
a processed food.
>> Samuel Carvalho: It's
high oxidant as well.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah, yeah.
So because our chocolate is
made with more actual cacao,
it's much higher
in antioxidants,
because cacao itself is
very high in antioxidants.
It has natural caffeine
and theobromine in it,
which just like caffeine is
good for you in moderation.
It's definitely it's
kind of a fine line
because it's still chocolate,
it still contains sugar,
so I definitely wouldn't
encourage anyone to, you know,
eat 20 pounds of it
a day or anything
like that, as tempting as it is.
I struggle not eating
so much of it.
But, you know, in moderation
it is much better for you
than a artificially
chemical laden product.
And the natural cacao
butter too,
because there's higher
quantities of that along
with the actual nib and like
the solid part of the chocolate.
That fat is pretty high in
omega 6s and it's not --
you know, it's much better for
you than like artificial waxes
and fats that they put
in Hershey's to get
that same chocolate texture.
When you're pulling
out all that cacao,
you have to put something
in to make it melt.
You have to put something
in to make it feel
like chocolate in your mouth.
And all that stuff is
artificially produced
and it's not great.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Yeah,
responding to like
first question.
On our website, it's
going to say store locator
and you can see where
the different stores
in the country, even
in Canada now.
So yes, you can find us there.
And Matt mentioned cacao
nibs, and just so you know,
cacao nibs is the cacao
bean without the shell.
So that's what you're going
to see inside the cacao beans.
We have a machine, it's
called a winover [phonetic],
and we separate the cacao
shells and the cacao nibs
and donate the cacao shells
for composting reasons.
And we also try to make sure
that our packages
are sustainable
and compostable and
everything else.
And I remember, we had
a meeting the other day
with some people interested
in investing in the company.
And Matt came with a
chocolate bar and I said,
want this chocolate
bar here at the table.
>> Matthew Dixon: It was
like a Hershey's bar, yeah.
>> Samuel Carvalho: No,
it was a dark chocolate.
That's what's interesting,
because it's a dark chocolate.
And you say, oh,
that's dark chocolate.
And there's like a seal.
And says fair trade and organic.
It's kind of like a dark --
it's not very clear what
organic means today.
So it's sometimes
really hard to explain.
But you'll see the organic,
oh, let's do it, it's organic.
So we see like those
chocolate bars
in a grocery store
and you can see it's.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah,
especially in Whole Foods,
you see a lot of that, yeah.
>> Samuel Carvalho: And you'll
see those chocolate bars.
And actually maybe they
do everything they say
and maybe they're organic
and their concept of organic,
they do fair trade or whatever.
But when you see the
ingredients, you're going
to see it listed:
vanilla and soy.
Which is okay but you need to
ask yourself, why do they use
that and we do not use that?
So what's the reason
why they use that?
So Matt went to the
Culinary Institute,
so he can give maybe
more in a second.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
Well, it's an indication.
And that's one of the things
that we, without trying
to be too militant about
it, try to educate people
to definitely whenever
you're buying any product,
to read your labels.
And if you see soy, if you
see soy lecithin or lecithin
of any kind, it's an emulsifier.
And if you see also
there's a wax
that I'm not remembering
the name
of that's commonly in there.
Yeah, yes.
So those two things are an
indication that regardless
of whatever else
that package says,
it's probably being
mass-produced.
It's probably not exactly
what it says it is.
There's a lot of
green-washing in products today
because it's very popular
for things to be non-GMO
and gluten-free and
all this stuff.
And so you see a lot of that.
You go into Whole Foods and you
look in the chocolate aisle,
you'll see walls and
walls and walls of stuff
that says it's fair
trade and gluten-free.
And Chocolate's gluten-free
anyway,
why would there be
gluten in chocolate?
You know, [inaudible] yeah.
And they'll say it's stone
ground and hand-selected.
And then you look
at the back of it
and it will generally the
ingredients list will be
something like chocolate
liquor --
which means they're
not using beans.
Which means they're
probably not producing it.
Chocolate liquor is a
mass-produced chocolate product
that usually comes
from other companies
that are buying bulk chocolate.
And maybe it's fair trade
because they paid a
little bit more for that,
but that's not the
same as direct trade.
And then you'll see soy lecithin
and you'll see these
other things,
and that's a huge
indication that this is not --
the product's kind
of lying to you.
And then especially if
it costs less than $5,
that's probably another
huge indication
that something is wrong
in their supply chain.
Somewhere along the line
someone, probably someone
who produced the cocoa,
is not getting paid,
or they're buying it already
made from somewhere else
with a lot of fillers
and, you know,
substrate ingredients
to cut the cost.
Because right now it's
just it's not possible
to produce high-quality
chocolate
that you paid direct trade like
living wages to the farmers
without charging $7-$8
for the end product.
Because just it's
very expensive,
and shipping logistics and
like everything that goes
into getting that product
here and then making it
and then going from there.
So that's one of the things that
I always try and tell people,
if you see a chocolate
bar and it's $5 or less,
there's something wrong.
I encourage you not to buy that.
>> I'm curious, from the time --
so a tree is producing
in five years.
What's the longevity of a tree?
How long does it produce?
>> Matthew Dixon: How
long does it produce for?
Yeah, man.
>> In optimal conditions.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah,
in optimal conditions,
I think you get 10 years.
They'll produce sort of at --
they'll produce forever as long
as you maintain the tree
and nothing happens to it,
they don't get any diseases.
But after I believe
it's 10 years,
you start to see a
significant drop in the quantity
of pods the tree
is able to produce.
And then also the quality
will start to falter
as the trees get older.
And one of the things
that we saw at the farms
in the Dominican at least
that they were doing is
they started grafting.
After the trees hit that like
sort of beyond maturity point,
they would start to graph them.
And so they would take
one of those new clones
that you guys saw
on the pictures
and they would actually graft it
to the rootstock of an old tree.
And then once that
clone reached maturity
on the older trees rootstock,
they'd cut the older tree down
and allow it to keep
growing that way.
And I think I was told that that
could only be done I think twice
or maybe three times before the
rootstock would also get too
worn out to maintain
the new growth.
So yeah, it's definitely
a difficult rotation
for those farms once the
trees start maturing as well.
But one of the things happening
right now is those farms are
planting so many new clones
and there's so much new growth,
they'll be sustainable
for a good long time before
they start encountering
those problem.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
There is also
like a misconception sometimes
people say that chocolate has
to be -- dark chocolate
is bitter.
And it doesn't have
to be bitter.
That's, again, I'm
talking about the soy
and like all those
ingredients in chocolate.
Because cacao beans itself
is just -- a raw cacao bean,
if you crack it, if you just
chew it, it doesn't taste good.
It's kind of -- it's really bad.
I had someone try
to do it before,
and the pulp is very good.
But inside, it's not
pleasant, it's not enjoyable.
But you have the chocolate, you
know, so that's why you need
to have a very good
fermentation process,
all these processes
that you saw here.
It has to be like in
shape so you're going
to have much more quality,
much better flavors
and everything else.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
And that's sort of our
responsibility to take that --
take all that hard work and
beautiful work that the farmers
and the people did and make
sure that we're honoring that
and we're displaying like the
full effort and like the full,
you know, beauty of the
thing that they did.
Yeah. And that's what's the
challenge that's kind of fun
and exciting on our end is
to get that in and say, okay,
this has a lot of lemon flavor
and kind of some raisin flavor,
how do we bring that out?
How do we keep it from
getting really bitter
and make this pleasant and
bring out those flavors?
Yeah, and that's
one of the things
that we work really hard to do.
>> Samuel Carvalho: And even
if you get a really bad
cacao beans, of course,
you have the whole process,
you try to make the chocolate
and I guess the best
as possible.
But sometimes when you get
a really bad cacao beans
and you get a lot of samples
from like all over and we try
and try to change
the [inaudible]
or change the roast
method, whatever you do,
the quality is not
going to be good.
So, okay, but it has
to pleasant for people,
otherwise nobody's
going to buy this.
So what are we going to do?
Okay, let's put some soy in
it and vanilla, you know.
So that's why --
it's much easier,
but it's much more unpleasant.
>> Matthew Dixon: And that's
probably why it's important
for us and other
chocolate makers
to have a relationship
with our farmers.
Because we can go back to
them and we can say, hey,
you sent us this really
great sample, there is a lot
of potential here, but we
think your fermentation needs
your work.
And we can kind of help
facilitate them getting in touch
with someone that can help
them improve their processes
so that they can continue
to sell their market --
their cocoa to a market
like ours and get more money
for it and, you know,
build their product
and their own economy.
Again, that's why, you know,
we try to sort of encourage,
like look for craft
chocolate, look for people
that are transparent,
look for, you know --
there's other makers not
just us in the country
that are doing these things and
are committed to these things.
Because that's really what's
going to make chocolate last
and what's really going to,
you know, improve the lives
of the people in the
regions that it comes from.
>> Just one more question.
When I was in Ecuador, I
went into the supermarket
and I bought chocolate
made in Ecuador
to bring back as some gifts.
How would I know if it's
really good Chocolate or not?
I can assume it is because
it said it was made there.
But I mean, how do I know?
I'm a product of Cadbury.
That's what I grew up on.
And I'm sure they have
diminished now, their content
for chocolate is probably a
lot less than it used to be.
And that happens with
a lot of manufacturers.
So how can I know if I'm
going to another country
if I'm buying good chocolate?
And did you bring
any samples for us?
>> Matthew Dixon: No, that
was our one mistake today.
We didn't bring any samples.
>> Samuel Carvalho: [Inaudible]
process, it's just crazy.
[Inaudible] and came
straight here.
So, sorry.
>> Matthew Dixon: But
yeah, in another country.
>> Was better chocolate
in Ecuador.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
And that's what's interesting
about chocolate in countries
where cacao is grown,
is typically --
there's not a huge demand
for actual chocolate there.
The cocoa itself is used
-- it's sold primarily.
And when it is used in the
home, it's mostly made --
the pulp is made into drinks or
it's made into other products
and not exactly chocolate.
And so what you had
was probably made there
and it was probably authentic
and there's probably
nothing wrong with buying it,
but it probably wasn't
very good.
Because whoever made it
probably doesn't like chocolate
and was making it as
something to sell to visitors,
but didn't -- you
know, they don't --
and it's really funny because
we'll bring chocolate back
to the farms and we'll hand
it out to people and say like,
look, this is your
product, this is your beans.
And people don't like it,
and it's really funny.
But yeah, I think if you're
in a cocoa-producing region,
I would say, you know,
you're probably safe,
it just might not be what
we would expect it to taste
like with our own palettes and
our own sort of taste coming
from Cadbury and Hershey's
and things that we've grown
up recognizing as chocolate.
>> Samuel Carvalho: They might
have a very good cacao bean,
but we have all the process
to make this much
more like enjoyable.
So, for example, just
very briefly our process.
We classify the beans
when we get it,
is how the beans enter
the fermentation process,
dry fermented.
We classify just try to
make sure there is no rocks
or heavy metals or
something like that
on the production line.
And then we just get
all the beans roasted
and then just reduce
the moisture pretty much
in the roasting process.
>> Matthew Dixon: And the
roasting process develops the
actual flavors of chocolate,
like Sam was saying earlier.
So yeah. So when we
get the beans in,
there's all this potential
in this neat little package.
And we as a chocolate
maker have to figure
out how we're going to roast it.
Because the roast profile
distinctly changes the flavors.
It drives off all kinds of
volatile compounds and sort
of develops the chocolate
flavor.
And just like in coffee,
you'll find lighter roasts can
be more acidic and more intense
and sometimes bitter
and not pleasant.
Darker roasts, you start
getting into the more just
like pure chocolate-y flavors
and you'll start to lose some
of those more subtle fruit
flavors and that kind of stuff.
And if you roast too far,
you start getting burnt
or you start getting like
roasty bitter like burnt toast.
Where you have really
dark toast,
you get that kind of bitterness.
So that's one of
the first challenges
for us making chocolate
is roasting.
And we get a bean in and
we sample it and we kind
of will do experimental roasts
and we'll kind of play with it
until we get a flavor
profile that we like.
And then from there it's
actually grinding the chocolate,
which incorporates
air, is a question
of how much sugar
we're going to add,
what kind of sugar
we're going to add.
Because that contributes
to the flavoring.
If you use like a
white like plane
like fully extracted
sugar, if you something more
like a raw sugar that
has a lot of the molasses
and like cane flavor
still in it.
There is a really
interesting maker in Wisconsin
that was using rice
sugar in his chocolate,
which had a really unique
flavor, really interesting.
But there's so much
with chocolate.
And that's one of the things
that we try to do is we try
and balance that act between
like making chocolate that's
really interesting flavor to
making chocolate that's pleasant
and enjoyable for everyone.
>> Where is your
cacao mostly from?
>> Matthew Dixon: Brazil,
primarily, and a little bit
from the Dominican Republic.
>> So it's mostly from Brazil?
>> Samuel Carvalho:
Primarily from Brazil, yes.
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
We just did a sourcing trip this
year to the Dominican Republic,
so those were the most recent
photos we have of some farms
that we just visited
and that kind of stuff.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
The first pictures,
actually they were from Brazil.
>> Yeah, the first
pictures were.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Was
Dominican Republic, yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Matthew Dixon: We haven't
done a blend of the Dominican
and the Brazilian
chocolate together.
Yeah, that's a great idea.
We kind of right now we've made
them as like single origins.
And we do a blend of two of our
Brazilian cocoas that we use
to make our milk chocolate,
and we make a 70% that's
kind of our like flagship.
Those are our two sort of
like flagship chocolates,
those are our blend
of Brazilian cocoas.
But we haven't blended the
Dominican and the Brazilian, no.
[inaudible] Harper Macaw?
It's two rain forest birds.
So it's the harpy eagle and the
macaw, and we kind of chopped it
up and used it to make our name.
And that's the logo
too is the bird.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Those are
two birds actually in danger
of extinction in
the rain forest,
in Brazilian rain forests, yeah.
So that's why [inaudible].
>> You mentioned your
commitment to the environment
and to people willing to pay
fair wages and direct trade.
And obviously it's very
pervasive in the industry
to see the sort of exploitation
of socioeconomic
factors and people.
So what standards
within the industry
or what measures are being taken
to mitigate the harm being done
to people and to the population
and to the environment?
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah, yeah.
So in the industry
wide, there is a --
I can tell you about
one institute
that you guys should
actually check out.
They're called the Fine Cocoa
and Chocolate Institute.
And they are setting up
a standard of basically
like assessment for
preventing those things.
And we follow that standard.
So we visit our farms.
We talk to our people.
And we go down and we make
sure that what we pay directly
to the farm is actually
getting passed
down in wages to the workers.
We tour the farms
and we make sure
that those agroforestry
principles are actually being
followed and that they're
meeting all of those standards.
And we also talk to other
industry professionals
who are monitoring those things.
And that's what's
interesting right now
about the chocolate industry,
is all of that is growing.
It's very much at its
infancy, those changes
and people putting together
groups and organizations
to help enforce those changes.
So it's all very new.
And basically how we do
it is we've set standards
for ourselves and we've set
standards for who we will work
with and who we won't
work with, and we just try
to follow those guidelines
as best we can,
and try to be adaptable
and partner
with those other companies
that are setting those
rules and standards.
Yeah, thank you.
That's a great question.
>> We have time for
one more question.
>> You guys kind of talked about
this already, but in America,
I know there's two
different types of chocolate,
there's just milk and dark.
But you said cacao beans can
be very different flavored.
I'm guessing it's
affected by [inaudible].
But do you offer any
unique flavors, for example,
compared to what we'll
find in the supermarket?
Or is it based more
on what people prefer?
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah.
Let me pull up our website.
And our chocolate
basically, we don't --
so we have a few things that we
do flavor directly that we add
like nuts and candy and
like other stuff we make
in-house too.
But for the most part.
>> Samuel Carvalho: We do
have milk chocolate as well.
And we actually have a 57% milk
chocolate, which means 57% cacao
and milk powder, organic whole
milk powder and organic sugar.
So those are all
the ingredients.
So we do add flavors
and we don't make only
the plain chocolate.
And we also have special
editions I can show you here,
and that's great because
-- so, for example,
this one here, the first one.
See it? Grapefruit,
it's grapefruit [inaudible]
oil with [inaudible].
So it's a very interesting
flavor, thanks to Matt,
he developed this chocolate bar.
>> Matthew Dixon: That
one's a lot of fun.
>> Samuel Carvalho: Yeah.
It's actually 70%
dark chocolate.
So it's dark chocolate
with some --
added those two other
ingredients.
This one here is a barrel-aged
edition, and that's aged,
you know, wine barrel
for about six months
and it gets the flavor.
The same process.
>> The dry beans are?
>> Samuel Carvalho: The cacao
nibs or the dry beans, yes.
One or the other.
This one here is the same
process but it's a rye barrel.
>> Matthew Dixon:
Rye whiskey barrel.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
Rye whiskey barrel.
It's actually a local company
that's a winery distributer.
It's based here in
Washington, DC.
And it gathers the beans
kind of like a tray
of the beans -- sorry,
the barrels.
They give us the barrels after
they empty it out of whiskey.
We fill up with cacao nibs.
And after six months, they
get the barrels back and fill
up with whiskey and it has
chocolate flavor into it.
So it's a very interesting
process.
>> Matthew Dixon:
So you were asking
about what the difference is
between like milk
and dark chocolate.
And really, that's one of those
hard things that goes back
to what we all grew up with,
which is this hard line
between stuff like Hershey's
-- which is milk chocolate --
and then what most people
probably recognize dark
chocolate is like
baking chocolate.
And it's super bitter, and
it's unpleasant, it's terrible.
But dark chocolate I think
legally is defined as anything
that contains cacao over I want
to say 20% actual cacao beans.
And so technically our milk
chocolate is a dark milk
chocolate, which is
really fascinating.
And so what's great about is you
have this great sort of marrying
of the flavors of the
milk and the creaminess
and then the fruit flavors
from the actual cacao
and the chocolate.
Our milk chocolate bar is
one of my favorite things.
And then when we're
making our single origin,
these bars that kind of follow.
This is the blended bar.
That's the other two beans from
Brazil, I was talking about.
And our milk chocolate
is actually made
with the same blend.
And then after that we have our
single origin dark chocolates,
which are made with
a single bean
from a single farm
from a single area.
And those we don't
specifically aim.
It's kind of dependent on what
flavors we get in the chocolate
when -- in the beans, when we
get them in and we taste them.
Sometimes, like I was saying
earlier, we'll get a bean in
and we'll say, okay, this
has this really nice sort
of dark fruit flavors.
It's kind of raisiny and figgy.
And let's see if we
can bring that out.
And that's kind of
what we aim for.
And keeping that in mind, if
there's something really strange
in there that we know
people won't like --
which I think was
your other question.
Is like do we try and make
chocolate for, you know,
like flavors that
people are interested in?
And yes, absolutely.
Because, you know, I
might really like some
like weird esoteric like
mushroomy flavor that's
in some bean that we
get, but I don't know
that anyone else
wants to eat chocolate
that tastes like mushrooms.
So of course we try and kind
of like look at those beans
and say, okay, like there
is this interesting flavor,
but maybe that's not going to
be like the most enjoyed flavor,
so let's not try
to bring that out.
Like let's try and like guide
it towards these other flavors
that we think, you
know, people will like.
>> Samuel Carvalho:
We also have --
all the people that
work with us, of course,
and they are passionate
about chocolate.
And one of them, Barb, she knows
everything about chocolate,
about anything that
you can ask her.
The other one, she
has a chocolate blog,
she's also passionate
about chocolate.
And the reason I'm saying
that is they help
us with the flavors.
So they taste them, what do
you think about this flavor?
Okay, I like it, but
she doesn't like it.
So otherwise, maybe has a
very funky, she likes things
that I personally
don't like [inaudible].
>> Matthew Dixon: Yeah, we
try to taste as a group.
And, you know, maybe I think in
the future, we have been talking
about when we're
developing new chocolates,
of like having people
come in as like a preview
and taste different recipes
and kind of give us feedback
and like what people like,
what they don't like.
And kind of like help us sort
of, you know, make chocolate
that people can really enjoy.
And then you get
to taste chocolate.
>> Samuel Carvalho: That's what
we kind of do at the store.
We have -- of course
it's a store,
but we have samples there.
So we can get people's
feedback as they're trying it,
and it's always very fun
watching people's face.
>> Matthew Dixon: Thank
you so much for having us.
We're so glad we got to be here.
Thank you all.
[ Applause ]
>> Alda Migoni: I've got
some closing remarks.
So thank you to both
of our presenters
for a very informative and
illustrative presentation.
I'm genuinely a fan
of your chocolate.
So thank you for coming.
And I did want to say thank you
for helping us celebrate
National Hispanic Heritage Month
with us here today.
I do also want to
direct your attention
to our general collection,
there are two books.
That if you're interested in
the socioeconomic justice aspect
of direct trade or fair
trade and chocolate,
or you want to learn more
about slave and child labor
in the West Ivory Coast,
and the way in which Hershey
and Nestle have engaged in
these type of practices,
I recommend looking into
our collections here.
There's two books
I would recommend.
One is "The True History of
Chocolate," by Coe and Coe.
And the other book is
also "Sacred Gifts,
Profane Pleasures, a History
of Chocolate and Tobacco
in the Atlantic World,"
by Marcy Norton.
And those are in
our collections.
And please come visit any
reference librarian to help you
with your venture into the
wild world of chocolate.
So thank you again and thank you
for celebrating National
Hispanic Heritage Month.
>> Matthew Dixon: Thank
you so much for coming.