>> Beatriz Haspo: Today, we are
very thankful for the Embassy
of Canada, the sponsor
of this session.
And I have the privilege of
introducing Denis Chouinard.
Thank you.
Counselor of the Public Affairs
of the Embassy of Canada,
who is going to be the
interviewer this evening.
Thank you very much.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
Thank you very much, Beatriz.
Welcome everybody.
It's really an honor to be with
you tonight, with Kim Thuy.
Welcome to Washington D.C.
>> Kim Thuy: Again.
>> Denis Chouinard: Again,
because we met almost a year ago
at the Embassy of Canada.
There was an exhibit with
paintings from [foreign name].
The title was "Diversity
Identity,"
and the paintings were inspired
by the novels of Kim Thuy.
So, that was how
we met a year ago.
>> Kim Thuy: And the
paintings were more beautiful
than the book.
>> Denis Chouinard: That
can be quite a discussion.
As it was mentioned, if
that's alright with you,
I will conduct an interview
with Kim Thuy, and around 6:30,
we have two microphones, I will
invite you to ask questions.
Kim Thuy was born
in Vietnam in 1968.
And at the age of 10, she left
Vietnam with a wave of refugees,
commonly referred
as The Boat People.
And settle with her
family in Canada,
in Quebec, in Granby, I believe?
Yes. Graduate in
translation and law.
She work as a seamstress,
interpreter, lawyer.
You were the owner
of a restaurant,
and you were a food commentator
on radio and television.
And of course, you're a writer.
Kim Thuy is recipient of
numerous, a good number
of awards, including in 2010,
she receive a Canada Governors
General Literary Award
for French Language Fiction
with her first novel, Ru.
And Ru was translated in
at least 25 languages,
which is extraordinary.
Exceptional, certainly,
coming from a Canadian writer.
Ru was followed in
2013 I believe,
with your second novel, Man.
And then Vi was published
in 2016.
And recently, this
year, in English,
Random House published
Your Secrets
from My Vietnamese Kitchen,
the Simple Recipes
from My Many Mothers.
Can I ask you the
first question?
>> Kim Thuy: Sure.
>> Denis Chouinard: I would
refer to Ru, your first novel,
and my question would be, "Well,
how did it flow out of you?
How did Ru turn into words?
How Ru became a novel?"
>> Kim Thuy: First of all, I
didn't know that I could write,
because I don't master any
of the three languages
that I kind of know.
I still make a lot of
mistakes, and you know,
French is a nightmare
with tenses for the verbs,
because in Vietnamese,
you don't have tenses.
You only have infinitive, right?
And so, and the French are
so precise, more precise
than the English, right?
You have not only
-- how do I say?
[ Foreign language spoken ]
You know just for past tense.
And just that, I
don't know where it is
on the timeline,
which come first.
And in French, you even
have [foreign name],
meaning future and before.
How can you be in the future and
in the past at the same time?
>> Denis Chouinard:
Don't ask me.
>> Kim Thuy: Right?
And I took one class, one
creative writing class,
and the professor asked
me to go to his office
because he gave me
basically, for knowledge
of French, zero, on 33%.
And participation in
class was also zero.
And so, he recommended that
I change faculty, right?
The only reason why I stayed,
was to fight against my mom
who said that I should become a
doctor, and not go into words.
But -- and she was right.
You know, how mothers
are always right.
And so, annoying in a way.
So, I never thought that
I would be able to write,
and the book came to be really
because I fell asleep a lot
at red lights, and one --
and it's quite dangerous to
fall asleep at red lights
because -- not green lights.
You know, when I'm driving,
I'm fine, but at red lights,
it's too long and
I just fall asleep.
And when you fall asleep,
your foot would get lighter,
and the brake would
release itself a little bit,
and the car would
move on its own.
And so, I had a couple
of accidents like that.
And the insurance company kind
of stopped, yes, insuring me.
And so, one way -- they were
not big accidents, right?
Because it was quite slow.
But still.
>> Denis Chouinard: Good news.
That's good to know.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes.
So, you can try.
But maybe your spouses
won't be happy [inaudible].
And one way for me to stay
awake was to take notes.
And at the beginning, they
were just To Do Lists, really,
you know, what to buy
tomorrow at the market.
And I ran out of things
to do, and so I had
to invent new lists, right?
Like a list of verbs that
I knew, countries, cities,
colors, all kinds of lists.
And then I ran out
of ideas for lists,
and that's how I
started writing, I guess.
There were just notes.
And it was a book.
Well, it [inaudible].
Well, and then I really loved
it, so I looked for red lights,
so that I could continue
to write [inaudible],
because when you get home, you
have a zillion things to do,
and you feel guilty to just --
well, I felt guilty to just
sit and play with words.
But when you're at red
lights, you're stuck.
You know, you cannot
do anything else.
Anyway, so, that's how
the book got started.
And then, I got a one
month of penalty at home,
because I changed careers every
five years, and my husband said
that it was time for me to, at
40, to know what I wanted to do,
and to have a dream career,
or something like that.
And I didn't know what to
dream for, and he forced me
to stay home for one
month, as a penalty period.
And no, but really, this is
your penalty period [inaudible].
And I put the note in the
computer, and then that month,
you know, got to
have another month,
and another month,
and another month.
I just had more excuses
because after one month,
your kind of behind --
your behind would take
the shape of the chair.
And you can no longer get up.
You know, you just stay there.
And then I didn't
know it was a book.
It was a friend of
mine who took it
to the publisher,
and it became a book.
And then, I don't
know what happened.
You know, Europe, France,
bought it very quickly
and gave it a prize
very quickly,
and then the other
countries came along
and then now we're
yes, 39 countries.
And sometimes, they're countries
that I didn't know existed.
The publisher would
tell me, "Oh,
Macedonia has just
bought your book."
And I said, "Oh, that's not
like -- you know, vegetables?
Macedonian-something?"
And then she said, "No,
it's not a vegetable mix.
It's a country."
And so, yes.
So, that's it.
>> Denis Chouinard: Great.
Well, that's a great story.
She's a great storyteller.
She's a great storyteller,
isn't she?
>> Kim Thuy: But
that's the truth.
>> Denis Chouinard: Yes.
And I remember, I saw
Ru in a bookstore.
I read it and then you know,
I met my sister,
"Did you read it?"
"Yes, we read it."
And then I met my
colleagues, "Did you read Ru?"
and she'd tell, "Oh,
yes, yes, yes."
I read it in French.
I'm just waiting for
the English translation.
The English translation
came very quickly,
and that was just -- the
novel was just everywhere.
Everywhere.
And the French, which is
used by -- well, your French,
your French language,
it's just beautiful.
So, I read the three novels,
Ru, Man, and Vi, and I read,
when preparing for this
interview, extract in English
from the translations
by Sheila Fischman.
So, the same translator
did the translation
from French to English.
And well, I found the same
beauty, the same grace,
the same soft tone, in
the English as well.
So, my question, you know,
would be, "Can you tell us
about the writers you admire,
in which compare your style
to the authors that you admire,
how would be this comparison?"
And secondly, the team of this
festival, this Change Makers,
who are among the writers
that you really like,
"Who you would consider
as being Change Makers?"
[Inaudible]
>> Kim Thuy: Change Makers.
I will name you two authors that
really, you know, they are --
they changed me as a person.
>> Denis Chouinard: I see.
>> Kim Thuy: Marguerite
Duras, who wrote The Lover.
Maybe you know of her?
And she -- it was the first
book that we got to buy,
when we left Vietnam
in '78, so three years
after the end of the war.
You know, very often, when you
talk about the end of the war,
you always think that peace
would come right away,
but actually there's a
period, a transitional periods,
which is -- which creates a
lot of chaos when you change,
not a political party,
but a regime.
You know, a political regime.
Then everything just
went upside down.
And we were lucky enough to
have a lot of books at home,
and all those books
became, how would I said it,
they were considered to
be anti-revolutionary,
or anti-cultural
products, right,
that could send you to prison.
And so, we had to burn
books and we had to, yes,
find ways to destroy them.
And so, when we arrived
in Canada,
we didn't have any
money to buy books.
And I didn't know the library
system yet, and the first book
that we got to buy was The Lover
of Marguerite Duras,
and it cost $15.
And to us, it was enormous,
because $15 could take care
of our family in Vietnam
for a whole month.
So, it felt so -- you know,
we felt so guilty, my uncle
and I, to go buy this book.
And he's seven year's
older than I am.
He could speak French
before we arrived in Quebec.
So, his French was of a
higher level than mine.
I didn't understand much.
So, we went to buy this book,
and he read the book with me,
sentence by sentence--
>> Denis Chouinard: Oh, I see.
>> Kim Thuy: -to
explain to me why it was
such a beautiful book.
It was -- the language
was very simple,
but at the same time, very deep.
And you had to master
French really well
in order to write this way.
And so, he explained
to me, every sentence.
And then my mom, she
said the best way
to learn a language is
to write dictations.
You know, that's how
you say it, right?
And because when
you do a dictation,
you need to analyze
the structure
of the language, right?
Grammatically, [inaudible]
syntax [inaudible].
>> Denis Chouinard: Syntax, yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Everything like
logical and all of that.
So, she made me write dictation
from first page to
the last page.
And then, and also she
said, "To learn a language,
I had to learn it by heart,
because every language
has its own rhythm,
has its own musicality."
And the Vietnam language
is monosyllabic.
We only have one syllable
per word, whereas French
and English is, in my
mind, is horizontal,
because you just
add more syllables
to make new words, right?
You have constitution,
constitutional,
constitutionally,
anti-constitutionally, right?
Really long, whereas
Vietnamese is the tone.
You just go up and down,
right, to create more words.
And so, she said, I had
to learn it by heart
so that I get the rhythm
of the French language.
So, I learn it by heart, from
the first line to the last line.
So, what happened after this
whole exercise, imagine this.
I was 15 -- 14, 15, in high
school, going to school
and started talking
like the book.
I didn't know-- .
So, instead of saying to
your friends, you know, "Oh,
you look sad today," or "You
don't feel well," or something,
I said, "Oh, your
face, devastated."
You know? So, I no
longer had any friends.
[Inaudible] the high
school, was a nightmare.
Everybody just left me, right?
Like, "Oh, my God.
This girl is so funny."
And in the book, she
kept repeating, I'm 15,
15 and a half years
old, or [inaudible],
and [foreign language spoken].
So, when people asked me how old
I was, I said the same thing.
I'm 15, 15 and a half.
You know, like -- and so --
so, that's the first book.
That really stayed with me, and
I think some people would say
that I write a little
bit like Marguerite Duras
with that rhythm, but I
am Marguerite Duras free
for the last 20 years,
because if I start, you know,
reading her, then I
will live like her,
breathe like her,
think like her.
So, she's on the last shelf
that I cannot touch at all.
So, it's like an AA
person, you know?
>> Denis Chouinard:
Good to know.
>> Kim Thuy: And
the second author,
is Tim O'Brien, that you know.
He wrote The Things They
Carried, and he's important
to me because what I understood
from his book, from this book,
and I have not read
anything else of Tim O'Brien
because I love this book
so much, that I don't want
to be disappointed by
anything else from him.
And so, I always have at
least 10 copies of his book
in my house, so that
I can give to anybody
who would come into my house.
"You have to read this book."
And he has taught me one thing,
is that you can see beauty
in everything," and I think
beauty is the best vehicle
to talk about atrocity and
-- because he described,
at one point, that you
know, when they did --
they patrolled, that's --
yes, the soldiers --
well, he used to be--
>> Denis Chouinard: Patrol.
>> Kim Thuy: -well
he used to be --
he's a veteran of
the Vietnamese War --
no, of Vietnam War [inaudible].
As you know, here we
call it Vietnam War.
If you go to Vietnam, it's
called the American War.
But it's the same war, yes?
And it's always about,
you know, perspective
and the angle where we stand.
And he said that the soldiers,
they always walked in one line
to avoid mines, but
sometimes, they would, you know,
step on a mine, and when there's
a comrade who -- not comrade.
How do you say that?
A friend? A soldier?
>> Denis Chouinard: Friend, yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Another soldier
who would step on a mine,
everybody knew exactly what
would happen next, right,
that his body would be --
would explode and blood
would be spilled everywhere.
But he said, even though
your brain knows that,
the moment that the soldier
would lift up his foot,
he would be pushed up by
the pressure of the mine,
and the body would
just stay in mid-air.
In that moment, the
soldier looks like an angel,
and your eyes cannot help but
see the beauty of that moment,
and then of course,
the next second,
not even the next second,
the next split second,
the body would explode.
And he said that, what
I understood is that,
we should allow ourselves to
see that moment of beauty,
so that we will stand up
again and walk and try to find
that beauty and protect
that beauty you know,
amidst atrocity and horrors.
And I think beauty is -- you
know, there's one picture
of the Vietnamese War --
as you know, there were so many
pictures of this war, because --
oops, beauty, gone, which is
quite famous is the little girl
running in the middle
of the highway.
And I think of all the pictures,
why this picture stayed
in our mind, I think
it's because the picture
in itself, was beautiful.
If you look at it, the framing,
everything, it was just perfect.
And because it was
beautiful, it caught our eye --
our eyes, and so we became
curious about knowing
who was this little girl.
And I've read many pieces
of journalists talking
about this event and the nurse
who took care of
her was Canadian.
And that's why she's
now living in Canada.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Right, right.
>> Kim Thuy: And the nurse said
that this little girl
was not the first one
who was burned by Napalm.
There were many little girls.
But it's just -- not many
little girls, but many children,
many people who got burned, but
that picture was so perfect.
And I think that's
the beauty, you know,
that really caught our eyes,
because we cannot relate --
I think, our brain cannot
relate to something horrific,
because we have not lived it.
You know, so we can only
kind of listen to it,
but it's still arm's length.
But beauty, we have
all experienced beauty.
So somehow, it would talk to us.
And you know, more -- how is it,
contemporary or another picture
that I think really
stayed in our mind
and changed a little bit the way
that we see the Syrian
crisis is the little boy,
the, Alan, on the beach.
And again, I think
it's a perfect picture.
It's so beautiful, the face
of the baby was just peaceful,
sleeping there, and it
could be our babies, right?
And that picture
changed everything,
because the next day,
you have many pictures
of that same little boy,
but with the coast guards,
with the boats, with the
life vests, and everything
and we don't remember
because it was no longer
as beautiful as the
first picture.
So, I think that we should
allow ourselves to use beauty
as a weapon and as a vehicle
to fight back atrocities
and horrors.
And I don't remember
the question.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
>> Kim Thuy: So, I think it's --
yes, that's why Tim
O'Brien is important to me,
because he taught me that
I should allow myself
to always see beauty
in everything.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Thank you, Kim.
I would like to welcome
those who just joined us.
It's good to have you with us.
Can I ask you Kim to read
an extract from Ru now?
>> Kim Thuy: Oh.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Would that be possible?
>> Kim Thuy: I'm
really, you know,
my English sometimes,
it's there.
Sometimes it's not
so much there.
>> Denis Chouinard:
It's there, believe me.
>> Kim Thuy: And today,
I just feel like it's
not so much there.
And so, I'll read you a passage
about how I learn English.
I have never studied in English.
I learn it only on the streets.
Yes? That's how you say it?
>> Denis Chouinard: Yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes,
on the streets?
>> Denis Chouinard: Yes.
>> Kim Thuy: And when I was
-- when I worked as a lawyer,
I had to use a lot of English.
And so, when I speak
in English, I'm harsh.
I'm like a businesswoman,
you know?
Like [inaudible].
Yes, like a lawyer.
>> Denis Chouinard: Give a try.
Give it a try.
>> Kim Thuy: So,
I'll tell you how.
This passage is a true story.
It is -- not all the book -- not
everything in the book is true.
Only the good stories are true,
and all the bad stories
are not true.
So, now you know.
Or, you just choose
whatever you want to believe
that it's true, then it's true.
And that's what happened with
my family, when they read it.
You know, when they
like, then they say, "Oh,
you're talking about me?"
and when it's not, it doesn't
fit with what they think
of themselves and they go
like, "Oh, it's fiction.
She says whatever."
And so, this part is true.
My mother wanted me to talk
to learn French as
fast as possible.
English too, because my mother
tongue had become not exactly
insufficient, but useless.
Starting in my second
year in Quebec,
she send me to a military
garrison of anglophone cadets.
It was a way that I could
learn English for free,
she told me, but she was wrong.
It wasn't free.
I paid for it dearly.
There were around 40
cadets, all of them tall,
bursting with energy,
and above all, teenagers.
They took themselves
seriously when inspecting
in minute detail,
the fold of a collar,
the angle of a beret,
the shine of a boot.
The oldest ones yelled
at the youngest.
They played at war, at the
absurd, without understanding.
And I didn't understand them.
Nor did I understand why
the name of the cadet next
to me was repeated in
the loop by our superior.
Maybe he wanted me to remember
the name of that teenage boy
who was twice my height.
My first conversation in
English, started with me saying
to him at the end of the
session, "Bye, asshole."
Sorry. He's like, "We're
no longer sponsoring you
to come [inaudible]."
I could read a more serious one
if you like, or we
can just talk.
It's better to talk.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
Thank you for that.
When I was waiting for you
a few minutes ago, you know,
before starting this
interview, I met a person
in the corridor and
her name is Vi.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes.
>> Denis Chouinard: And Vi is
the title of your third novel.
I read Vi myself last
month in July when I was
in Canada visiting a --
our children with my
wife [foreign name] was
with us, here tonight.
And it took me just a
few days, very frankly,
because it took me,
grabbed me, I just loved it.
>> Kim Thuy: It's very short.
That's why.
>> Denis Chouinard: You know,
I was busy doing my holiday,
but it's short but you just
go through it, you see?
And Vi speaks about love.
It speaks about origins.
It speaks about hope, as well.
So, my question would
be, the title, Vi.
"How come you selected
this name?
And when you look at
Vi, when you read Vi,
what are the meanings
you associate to Vi?"
>> Kim Thuy: You
know, in Vietnamese,
most of the names
have a meaning.
You know, for the boys,
it would be courage,
determination, light.
The girls very often is a
flower, an orchid, I don't know,
kindness, white, and snow white.
You know, when you want your
child to really be white,
and then you call
the child Snow White.
And very often, the child
would be exactly the contrary
to the name.
And I found that so funny.
You know, and then when you call
your child white, I think it's
because you're already worried
that the child won't
be white enough.
And as you know, Vietnam was a
colony of France for 100 years,
and somehow you know, we
have adopted the criteria,
the beauty criteria from the
western world, meaning as white
as you can and the eyes as
big as you can and well,
my eyes in Vietnam were
considered to be the ugliest
that you can find because
it's just one line.
And -- oh, I have to
tell you -- no, after.
I was going to tell
you a funny story.
And then, so Vi means really
small, microscopic small.
For example, [foreign
name], is a virus.
That's how you call it, yes?
It has the word Vi in there
because it expressed the --
it expresses the
size of a virus.
But Vi is also the
beautiful of being small,
contrary to America, you
know, small is also very --
well, is beautiful actually, and
if you go to Japan for example,
just recently I've just
come back from Tokyo,
the lady who put the
kimono on me to try,
she tried to smooth --
how do you say that?
Yes, to take my shoulders down,
because she said, "You know,
the bigger they are,
the uglier they are.
So, you have to just
lower your shoulders."
And my shoulders are
just my shoulders.
I can't, right?
And so, I wanted Vi to be small,
because we very often we forget
that small is important,
and small is also beautiful.
We always look at
the big things.
For example, most of the
time we would say that, "Oh,
the most beautiful day was
my wedding day, or-- ."
And so and so.
And I think the wedding
day wouldn't exist
if you don't have all
the other smaller days.
So, and we forget
those smaller things.
And so, I wanted Vi to be small.
So, I started off writing Vi
as a small girl, and short,
and quiet and all of that.
But then she grew in the book,
and she became really tall.
And so, I had to go back
and change everything.
So, you see?
When you give a name
to a child, it --
yes, it goes the other way.
So, it didn't work at all.
And most of the time, I never
know what I write, very often.
Now today, if I can tell
you more about the books
and how I write, it's
because of the journalists.
I've learned a lot from them.
Every time that they ask
questions, I just you know,
learn from them, and then
repeat it to the next talk.
But in Spain, in Madrid, I had
14 interviews between 9 o'clock
and 6 in the evening, and I
had the same interpreter the
whole time.
And at the end of the
day, she asked me,
"How come I didn't give the
same answers to Journalist 3
and Journalist 7 when they asked
exactly the same questions?"
I said, "Didn't you
hear the Journalist 5?
His analysis was
so much better."
And so, I took that analysis
and I gave it to Journalist 7.
So, at the end of the day,
I sounded so much more
intelligent, you know,
because I never know --
I try to explain the book
but I -- yes, whatever.
Don't believe me.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Kim, it's almost 6:30.
>> Kim Thuy: Oh, no.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Would it be possible
to read a small extract from Vi?
>> Kim Thuy: Okay.
So, Vi, you see, like this
character was supposed
to be just on one page, but
then she grew and became
like the second most important
character in the book,
and I'll read it to you
and then I'll explain
to you after -- no, no.
I'll explain to you first.
Because the -- you know,
our eyes are really small,
and my eyes, you know, they
open like garage doors, right?
Pulling up like this.
So, my -- the three eyelashes
that I have, they go under.
And once I went to a TV show
and the makeup artist insisted
on giving me eyelashes.
So, he put on fake
eyelashes, and the problem is
when I open my eyes, the
eyelashes went under,
and were too late for him to
take out and the show was live.
And so, I went in front of
the camera with you know,
wipers in front of my
eyes, going like this.
So, anyway, this
is a true story.
And so, I didn't see anything.
Just very many wipers
going you know.
And for one hour.
It was a very long show.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Are you okay now?
>> Kim Thuy: Yes, yes.
I can see you.
No, I've given up.
Most makeup artists, they don't
bother because I say, you know,
there's nothing to
do with my eyes.
But then this one, he
said, "I can turn you
into you know, like a model."
And I accepted, of course.
And it didn't work out.
So. Ha is -- well,
the character Ha,
is much younger than my mother.
At the beginning of the 1970s
in Saigon, she was the perfect,
modern woman in the
American style,
with her very short dresses
that showed off the slanted,
heart-shaped birthmark,
high up on her left thigh.
I remember her irresistible
platform shoes in the hallway
of our house, which
struck me as decadent,
or at least gave me a new
perspective on the world
when I slipped them on.
Her false eyelashes, thick with
mascara, transformed her eyes
into two spikey,
haired, rambutans.
I don't know if you
know this fruit.
It has hair everywhere.
She was all pretty
with her apple green
and turquoise eye shadow,
two colors that clashed
with her coppery skin.
She was unlike most of the
young girls who avoided the sun
in order to set themselves
apart from the peasants,
in the rice fields, who
had to roll their pants
up to their knees, and endure
the violent, bright light.
Ha bared her skin
at the swimming pool
of the very exclusive
[foreign name],
where she gave me
swimming lessons.
She preferred American
freedom to the elegance
of French culture, which gave
her the courage to participate
in the first Ms.
Vietnam competition,
even though she was
an English teacher.
And I talked about her because
you know, mascara is something
so -- but now, in our world, but
in Vietnam in a country at war,
mascara was quite scarce.
And expensive.
And useless to most of us.
But I remember this friend, my
-- she was my aunt's friend,
and when she came, she was very
special because she had her --
a lot of eyelashes and
big eyes, you know?
Like they open up -- well, her
eyelids open up like you --
well, like the western people,
and so, I was always amazed
with her eyes, and having
all these eyelashes.
And she was very proud of
having these eyelashes,
so she would buy
mascaras and out them on,
and she was always worried
to -- that, how would I say?
She would not waste it, so
she didn't wash the mascaras.
You know, she would just add on.
And in order to not lose the
mascaras, she would sleep
between two pillows,
right, to make sure
that her eyes would
not go on the pillow.
And--
>> Denis Chouinard: It's
quite a technique, yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes.
And -- but it does, you know,
it does represent a period,
an era in Vietnam and Saigon
at that time in our history.
And yes, so that's it.
So, that's how serious
my book is.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
It's past 6:30 but one
last question if I may?
Your last book, Secrets
from My Vietnamese Kitchen:
Simple Recipes from
My Many Mothers,
let's open our appetite
a little bit.
We're close to dinner.
Can you speak a little
bit about the origin
of this wonderful book?
By the way, it has a
wonderful presentation,
a wonderful design.
It's just a beautiful
and gorgeous book.
>> Kim Thuy: But it's sold out.
They don't have anymore.
>> Denis Chouinard: Well, yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Sorry.
>> Denis Chouinard: You
will need to order a few.
But can you speak about
the origin of the book?
>> Kim Thuy: Oh, the origin
is that I have my mother.
She -- they are six
sisters and two brothers,
and all the girls are
really, really beautiful,
and I grew up with my aunts,
and we are very close.
And at one point,
we have dinner.
We have many dinners together,
and we're very, very close.
And maybe because I'm 50 now,
and all of a sudden, you know,
I was there and I said,
"Oh God, we are all alive."
And you know, as an
immigrant family, you --
I think we all accepted
in advance
that we would lose somebody
in the family at one point
or the other -- one
way or the other.
And I said, "How lucky I
am that they are all alive,
and that we are still so close."
And I said, "I have to
do something in homage
of these aunts who
raised me with --
alongside with my mother.
And so, at the beginning,
it was supposed
to be just a Christmas
project that I wanted to have,
their pictures taken, and then
-- but then books, you know,
recipes was not in our culture,
in the Vietnamese culture
before the social media, YouTube
and all of that, where
we share recipes.
Back then, recipes, you
had to keep it as a secret,
because if your neighbor has
the same recipe than you,
then she can steal
your husband, right?
That's the belief.
And so, you don't share recipes.
You have to only give it to
your daughters and sisters
and the women in the family.
And so, it's not in our
-- even now, my mom's --
when she has friends over, when
you like a recipe, you don't ask
for it because then you
would be forcing her
to lie to you, right?
A recipe book written in
Vietnamese for the Vietnamese,
you know in advance,
that there's a mistake.
Right? There's an
error in there.
And the work is like an
enigma, that you can --
you have to find
the mistake, right?
And the best books are when
the mistake is so tiny,
but pivotal to your
recipe, that you miss it.
You know? And so, it was
not spontaneous for me to--
>> Denis Chouinard: Right.
>> Kim Thuy: -write
a recipe book.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
>> Kim Thuy: And it
became a recipe book.
Sorry.
>> Denis Chouinard: Can we open
the floor now to your questions?
We have two microphones.
I would just invite you
to share [inaudible].
>> Kim Thuy: If you
don't have a question,
I'll tell you a sexy story.
>> Denis Chouinard: Well,
we have our first questions.
>> Kim Thuy: He's so happy
[inaudible] question.
>> I'm doing this because my
wife is so shy about this,
but my mother-in-law was
born in Saigon in 1945,
and she met my father-in-law
when he was a civilian defense
department worker over there.
Came to the United States in
'73 and then subsequently,
he helped bring over 15 or 20 I
think relatives in the late 70s.
>> Kim Thuy: At least.
>> Right over to
rural west Texas.
But you know, I've had a lot
of conversations with them
over the years about you know,
now that -- [inaudible] 90s.
With Vietnam opening up,
would you like to go back?
Would you like to
see what happened?
And they both said, no.
They weren't because
it was so --
there was so much tragedy
involved, so much heartbreak,
that they just were not
interested in going back
and seeing -- you know,
my mother-in-law
was not interested.
And she's still not
interested to this day.
I was wondering what
your relationship is
with the country -- even
with Saigon and all of that,
and how you feel
about it to this day?
>> Kim Thuy: You know, I -- when
I was a lawyer, I was sent there
on a project, and I had
the chance to go back
but at the same time,
not go back because I
had never known Hanoi.
Vietnam was divided
into two, right,
and there was no communication
between the north and the south.
And I was born in Saigon.
So, and I thought I was going
back to a country that I kind
of knew, but actually, no.
Hanoi was a different country.
You know, the north of Vietnam
was a different country,
and different language,
different everything.
And so, I rediscovered
Vietnam, and I must say
that I have made
peace with Vietnam
because I had that
time to go back.
And also, you hear people
telling their own story,
with perspective, you know, 20
years later, 40 years later,
50 years later, and then all
of a sudden you hear mothers
from both sides, telling
stories about their lost.
You know, a mother from
the north, or the mother
from the south, when you lose
a child, it's just a child.
It's not a [inaudible] soldier
or an American, you know,
backed -- how do you say that?
A South Vietnam soldier.
They were just kids.
You know, when you think about
it, they were 14, 15, 18,
living in the jungle,
walking for years,
without knowing much, right?
And so, you can make
peace because you go back
and you realize that we were
all victims of a war, that --
which were decided by a
couple of people up there.
And you can see the
documentary by Ken--
>> Ken Burns.
>> Kim Thuy: -yes.
And you can hear that the
country and the people are just,
how do you say, they're
the pieces of a chess game.
You know, we were not --
nothing at all, actually.
So, if we continue to hate
each other, then we would give,
how do you say, we
would continue that war.
So, I think we have, well the
younger generation anyway,
that we don't carry so
much of the history,
I think that we can be
part of this peace process,
or making peace with the past.
That's how I see it.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
Madame?
>> Thank you.
So, it's really amazing
to hear you talk.
I teach English in a high school
and we teach The Things They
Carried and Ru, together.
>> Kim Thuy: Oh.
>> So, you've answered
one of the two questions
that always comes up, which is,
"Do I think that Kim Thuy has
read "The Things They Carried"?
>> Kim Thuy: I know
it by heart almost.
>> So, now I'll be
able to say yes.
So, that's amazing.
>> Kim Thuy: Telling a war story
is never about war [inaudible].
>> Telling your war story, yes.
But another question that comes
up a lot is a little deeper,
but we often have
conversations about whether --
it seems from your book that
it's possible to ever feel
at home someplace when you
have had the experience
of exile as a child.
And I don't know if you
have thoughts about that?
>> Kim Thuy: About exile?
>> Yes, well, and
about whether you feel
at home in the world and how.
They're very curious about that.
>> Kim Thuy: I feel at home
very quickly, anywhere.
I've been here less
than 24 hours, I think,
and I'm already at home.
And I said to a friend,
I said, "Oh, yes.
I'll go for breakfast at
the same place tomorrow."
Like [foreign name],
how do you say that?
>> Denis Chouinard: As usual.
>> Kim Thuy: "As usual," I said.
"But you've been there
only for 24 hours,
so what do you mean as usual?"
And very often, I
will say, "Oh yes,
let's meet at home,"
but it's a hotel.
And so, I think it did
give me, not the feeling --
not being part of anywhere,
but more like being
part of everywhere.
So, I'm happy with
everywhere, funny enough.
You know, and I was
going to say,
I've been to Sweden five
times, now for the books,
and I feel like Sweden
is my country.
Or they think that I'm Swedish.
You know, they have
really adopted me there.
But then I've just come
back from Japan as well,
and again, it's very home to me.
So, I think it's the contrary.
It has given me that power,
but of course, home today is
where my children are.
Wherever, yes.
Wherever they live, then it's
my home, and they're still
in my house, and I
still cook for them.
And so, that's definitely
home to me.
But we should talk.
If you want me to chat with
your students, I'll be happy to.
>> Oh, yes.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes?
Yes, guy.
>> Okay.
>> Kim Thuy: And I will
have more time to talk.
>> That's amazing.
Thank you so much.
>> Kim Thuy: This is too short.
>> Denis Chouinard: Thank you.
>> Kim Thuy: Yes?
>> Denis Chouinard: Please?
>> Hi, first off,
thank you so much.
This has been a fabulous
presentation.
I'm really curious
about the cookbook.
So, did you put errors
in your recipes?
And like, how did you
get all these recipes?
Are these all inherited
from your family?
And then how did your family
feel about you using them then?
>> Kim Thuy: No,
there are no mistakes,
because I didn't know
how to make a recipe.
So, I had to hire a food
stylist so that she can cook.
And at one point, she asked
me for the caramelized pork,
and the recipes you find
in this book are so simple.
And they are [inaudible] by
the Vietnamese every day.
So, it's not a secret
in that sense.
But -- and she said, "Oh,
how long for the caramel?"
I said, "Well, up until the
color of dark chocolate 70%."
And she said, "We
cannot write that."
And -- but I think it's
more precise than the number
of minutes, right,
because you need to --
because with caramelized pork,
you have to go a little
bit darker than the color
that you wish to have, because
as soon as you add a little bit
of water and the meat in, the
color would lighten, right?
So, you have to go darker.
And so, it took us a long
time to have the recipes ready
because I kept giving
her wrong references.
I used to go with,
"Yes, fish sauce,
just like that [inaudible]."
>> Denis Chouinard: The
last question please?
>> Thank you for your talk.
You talked a lot about
your experiences during the
Vietnam war.
Of course, now the USA and
Vietnam are the best of friends.
I wanted to ask you, how do
the Chinese people see --
how do the Vietnamese
see the Chinese now?
>> Kim Thuy: Oh, now, it's
a very complex question.
And I -- it will take
me an hour to answer.
But as you know, China is
really next door to us.
And China is very
present in Vietnam.
That's the least that I can say.
Like everywhere in the
world, Africa, for example,
and I think the situation in
Vietnam is very close to Africa
in that sense is
that the -- yes.
The Chinese government has
invested a lot of attention
to Vietnam, because as you know,
Vietnam is the second largest
rice exporter in the world.
So, the -- we call
it the Rice Basket.
You know, the South of Vietnam
is the Rice Basket for a lot
of people for that region.
And so, one example,
and you see it,
the Chinese government has given
money to rebuild the highway
that goes from north to
the south of Vietnam.
>> Denis Chouinard: We're
running out of time.
I'm sorry.
I will need to conclude.
>> Kim Thuy: We can continue
at my hotel if you like.
I'm in Room 901.
>> Denis Chouinard: I would
like to thank our
signs interpreter,
thank you very much.
>> Kim Thuy: Thank you so much.
>> Denis Chouinard:
Thank you all.
Thank you Kim Thuy.
>> Kim Thuy: Thank you
so much for being here.