>> Karen Lloyd: Good afternoon. I'm Karen Lloyd a retired Army Aviation Colonel and Director of the Veterans History Project. On behalf of the Library of Congress and all of our colleagues, I would like to welcome you and thank you for joining us for Craft in America Panel discussion. Today's panel is the first of our series of Veterans Art Showcase events that we will be hosting this week. The art showcase will show to kickoff our year long anniversary celebration commemorating twenty years since Congress passed Legislation I think of it as our birth certificate kit to launch the Veterans History Project under the American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress. The mission of the Veterans History Project is to collect, preserve, and make accessible the stories of U.S military veterans who served from World War I through the current conflicts. So that future generations may hear directly from those veterans and better understand their selfless service. Their history is our history, their stories are our stories, stories of our nation told by folks who witnessed historic events; whether they were in the foxhole, the cockpit, a ship deck, a mess hall or even at a desk. To date, we have whole over 110,000 collections in our archive from individuals just like you who sit down with veterans and Gold Star family members to ask them about the lives of their loved ones. Our collections include video and audio recorded oral histories, original photographs, letters, military documents, diaries, journals, and even two dimensional art. Arts in the military may seem at odds, but in reality they have a deep and profound connection. Whether it is the scrimshaw of a revolutionary aero Navy sailor, the combat filming a faint cap during World War II or sketches in the journal of a young solider waiting for orders in Afghanistan. Wherever the military goes art is created. It is my pleasure to provide a brief introduction to three exceptional veteran artists whose works, not only have been inspired by their service, but also played a crucial role in their recovery from injuries they received during service. To create a piece of art is to create a piece of yourself and just as bone knits and muscle heals after an injury, art can help fill the spaces torn apart by trauma piece by piece. Are panelists tonight are a trio of incredibly talented ceramic artists Judas Recendez holds a Masters in Fine Arts from George Washington University and has been featured in exhibitions here in the Washington D.C. area, as well as San Francisco and Ireland. An Army vet, he served two tours in Iraq where he lost both legs to an IED explosion. Matt Krousey is a professional studio potter and has owned and ran his own ceramics studio in Saint Paul Minnesota for over a decade and his art has been featured in over 60 exhibitions. He served nine years and was deployed to Iraq with Minnesota Army National Guard. Ehren Tool is probably the prolific artist who has never sold a single piece. Since 2001 he has created and given away over 202,100 -- I think he told me earlier today. >> Ehren Tool: 21,000. >> Karen Lloyd: 21,000. I'm sorry. Ceramic cups. Each one featuring a unique illustration that he hopes will cause the recipient to think about the effects of war and as subject he was intimately acquainted with during his service as a Marine. And I can promise you, Ehren that mine certainly does. >> Ehren Tool: Oh, thank you. >> Karen Lloyd: I would like to thank all of them for being here with us today and sharing their wisdom and experiences. Without further ado, I'll turn the microphone over to our amazing moderator Mrs. Carol Sauvio the creator and Executive Producer of Craft in America and a passionate supporter of and expert on all things craft. Carol? >> Carol Sauvion: Thank you so much Karen. I'd like to start our conversation by thanking the Library of Congress, which I think is a best kept secret, having been to Washington many times as a child, for some reason we never came to this magnificent building and I remember walking in the first time several years ago and being overwhelmed by it and I think that our veterans feel the same way, from what we experienced today. I'd also like to thank Monica Mohindra, is Monica here? She's probably busy. She's the Chief of Program Coordination and Communication for the Veterans History Project. And we first met Monica, what is it Patricia, about three or four years ago we came to visit. We did an episode of Craft in America entitled "Service" and it was about art -- and it was about actually craft in the military and Judas Recendez was featured in that and Ehren Tool. So we became friends and realized how important it is to talk about success in the world of the veterans so that's sort of why we're here. I wanted to just say, I'm sure you all know more about the Library of Congress than I do. I was amazed to know that it was started in 1800 and that when the library burned during the War of 1812, after that war, Thomas Jefferson sold his books, over six thousand books and we thank him for the fact, that this is not just a legal library or a military library, it is a library representing all of the book arts, so that's pretty exciting, I think. And more exciting for us, and I'm going to flip that now, when we started our project in 2007, we knew we had to have exhibition to belong with this series and we knew we had to have a book. So this book, "Craft in America: Celebrating Two Centuries of Artists and Objects" has a Library of Congress number of 978 0 307 346 47 6. So know that our -- and I was speaking with Karen about this earlier to know that our book is in this place and she said, "Oh, there are two copies" I thought this is amazing. So I'm very excited about that that makes me feel -- and I think all of us felt our democracy in a different way today. We watch the news a lot but to be in this building and to know a little bit of the history and to know what we do have as a right as citizens is really important for us all to remember. Now, I'm going to talk about these three gentlemen and they are a little bit -- they have a little clay on them but that's because they've been working all day. Which was such a great experience to be throwing pots and making pots in the Library of Congress. Each one of these men, I contacted and said, "Would you?" And they said, "Yes" and I said, "Well, wait you don't know the details" they said, "Doesn't matter, we're there" and there they were. And we were worried about where we would get the clay and this morning at 8 a.m. I got a text from Ehren Tool saying we delivered the clay. Where did you get the clay at 7 o'clock in the morning? But they did and they used it today, which was really exciting I think Matt or Jude had something to do >> Matthew Krousey: Jude. I just carried it. >> Carol Sauvion: Because at dinner last night that's all they could talk about, where are we going to get the clay? And they got it, so that's great. So I think tonight you've all come to hear these three men talk and so rather than be in the middle of it, I think I want to introduce them and applaud them for actually having a career in the arts and to incorporate their service into their daily lives. I mean, I think veterans are very special people and we'll find that out more this evening. And that's all my notes so I'm going to start with Judas, Jude Recendez and he what I'm thinking, I'm going to hand this to you. >> Judas Recendez: Okay. >> Carol Sauvion: Because you're next and there you are [laughter] and you can tell us a bit about yourself and then we'll hear from Matt and we'll hear from Ehren. >> Judas Recendez: Okay. >> Carol Sauvion: And see if anyone has questions. Okay. >> Judas Recendez: Well, first of all, thank you for having us here, it's been a great privilege and an honor to throw here, at the Library of Congress. Thank you for the Art Veteran Project for inviting us out, Craft in America, of course, and no, it's just been amazing. Again, my name is Judas Recendez, that's a young version of me right there. >> Carol Sauvion: Handsome. >> Judas Recendez: [Laughter] it's odd looking at myself, but that was I think late 2003 in Iraq. It was 2003 to 2007 I was in the military, it was 1st Armored Division mechanized infantry [laughter] mechanized infantry out of Baumholder, Germany, little town, small town, great mountain biking if you ever plan to go. But I was injured on my second deployment so I came to D.C. to receive rehab and so forth. I moved after getting out of the military I moved back to California, realizing that unfortunately, the amount of care wasn't catching up through the VA system. I returned back to D.C. to continue my rehab where I started my undergrad. I did my undergrad in -- at the Corcoran College of Art and Design in D.C. I got that in 2013. Took some time off, had some surgeries and then did my MFA at GW. So that was 2017 and I'm now back in California and I teach at a community college which I teach a class of wheel throwing and handbuilding and the funny story is before I went into the military I actually took the wheel throwing class, the funny part about it is that I actually failed that class [laughter] so but now after receiving my degree -- but now I'm teaching there so it's a unique experience, I really enjoy it. But yeah, this is me. First deployment -- oh, my gosh. That's a horrible picture but that's my introduction. Should I continue this slide? >> Carol Sauvion: Sure. Why don't you go through your slides. >> Judas Recendez: Okay. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Oh, so these are cups, they're actually Solo cups. This was in 2017 I did some slipcast molding and I got these prints of just some prints I found online to help talk about how social drinking, especially in the higher education can be somewhat of an issue. So I used not knowing how light body that clay was, it was really white, I did not realizing its red, white, and blue it really did a theme for my whole show. So the funny part of this one is I made my own Agua Frescas, which are like a -- it's like a fruit drink and I at the show I had some -- just punchbowls, but there's no cups. So I forced my viewer to actually take the piece and kind of consume out of the it. Some people took one or two or five [laughter] but it was funny, I thought it was funny. Oh, this is from the show, Craft in America, these are some of my functional wares and I mean, the thing with for me and ceramics it's kind of this middle ground with functional ceramics or using this in comparison to this is more maybe a little more political charge. But with this, it kind of breaks away so I'm not too focused or if I get over my head, you know, I'm trying to over process something I go back to the wheel. And it's like, you know what I'm just going to, you know, I need a nice pasta dish or a fruit bowl and I take so much more pleasure out of, you know, with people I know just giving these pieces out and knowing that it's just going to be on their kitchen table or their morning coffee or so on and so forth or hold their pasta. But yeah, these are some of my functional wares and yeah. Let's go to the next one. Oh, this is the piece I actually threw for at the time of the interview, it's a two piecer, so I threw the base and then I through the upper top part. It was tallish, something, I don't know the size, I don't remember but [laughter] it's cone 6 so functional ware. It came out really nice, I was surprised at that one. I was just telling myself just don't screw this up [laughter] >> Carol Sauvion: I thought you said that to the camera. >> Judas Recendez: Yeah [laughter] >> Carol Sauvion: Don't screw this up. >> Judas Recendez: That's the only thing going through my head but it came out nice. But yes, that was a -- oh, so this is me working through craft versus art and asking the questions of what defines that and it's such a long story, but for me understanding the functionality of craft and if I rendered that functionality out of the piece, is it considered more art? So these are some few pieces where I'd throw the piece and then I would put slabs through them. So rendering having them to be nonfunctional and more as a sculpture so those were fun. Oh, my gosh. This is Fruit Stride. So I have a little fun with some of my pieces and going to school in D.C. you're always at the -- some museum or gallery. So I was at the Renwick when they just reopened it again and I was like, oh, my gosh this is amazing I'm just looking around. I know, yeah, you know, you're an artist you're going to [inaudible] but look at everything but noticing how the viewer -- and I know I shouldn't do it to make fun of the viewer, but I did -- noticing the viewer observing art through their phone and having the image of themselves and the piece of work in the background or so on and so forth. So I made a few of these and I would drop them around places. This is at then they're about over like about three feet tall. It's kind of hard to get into a gallery but it sometimes worked and I would change the health facts, I'd write stuff on it like my name or something, nutritional facts but has anybody had Fruit Stride gum? Yes, right? And how quick does that flavor just leave you? >> Unidentified Speaker: Twenty five seconds. >> Judas Recendez: Yes, very quick. So I thought that was very appropriate to use that type of piece around for galleries. Yeah, I didn't stick around to see if it worked, if they were doing selfies or anything, I thought it was funny so, but yeah, that's Fruit Stride. Oh, now this was an early work but I've been using it over and over. This is a image that I used in ink pen and digitalized on a piece of board and then drilled holes through it. The person behind it has the code name "Curve Ball" so and this individual sold information to Germany and the U.S about weapons of mass destruction and chemical weapons in Iraq. So I would put Dum Dums lollypops and then underneath the description, it goes "please take one" so it's -- they're taking one out and it's slowly revealing the image. And I played how I set up the lollypops. So because once you take the lollipop it slowly reveals it, but no one really knows about code name Curve Ball and it slowly reveals the image. This is one of his early photos in these like late 70s or early 80s that was out at the time but it's -- yeah, lollypops. Oh, and this is a piece I also did earlier, this was called "key practicing" this is 9 MM bullets on a piece of about 3/4 of an inch solid wood. And at the time I was asking the question of being in the military, you know, we do practice even though we're hitting targets, to have weapons at the low ready, they at least have a weapon. And as I searched through targets, a lot of them are very passive, they're nonaggressive and then I was looking on what states buy them and who sells them. So and they're ever training -- it's just to bring up a conversation of training, not only soldiers, but our police force to engage targets that are of has a silhouette, which is usually a darker color, and their very passive stance. So I commented on that by applying 9 MM bullet shells to the board and the board thickness, usually if you can penetrate that thickness it's considered lethal. So yes, and if you do order bullet -- or order shells it's very difficult to get them through D.C. so be very careful and you have to go through the right process [laughter] because they will ask lots of questions. This is pick up sticks. So you could see how, you know, with craft -- I don't know there's -- and it's just that's for me with ceramics, that's just for me. I do express myself in that but I also -- when I create something like this, it's really more of a figurative expression of commenting on, not only society, but also myself. So this is pick up sticks and it's a triangle in front of just some other wood, stained wood pieces that actually create more triangles. So for this one it was actually it's actually -- this was right when I was in grad school my father passed away. So it's about -- it's 5/11, which was his height, so at least the main white triangle, and all the other broken pieces behind it are representations of my siblings so I'm just going to -- oh, yes and look at that guy. Much hairier version of me. This is when I was in Fredericksburg in my garage, which was my studio, so on my wheel, which Chris really enjoyed that, especially in the winter when it snowed a little. But this is where I produced the majority of my ceramic wares and functional pieces and just playing around when I get too out of it. Oh, and that is me in a nutshell. >> Carol Sauvion: We may come back and ask you questions. >> Judas Recendez: Okay. Please do. >> Ehren Tool: Is that a bong? No. >> Judas Recendez: No, that's actually Ethiopian [inaudible] >> Ehren Tool: Oh [laughter] >> Matthew Krousey: That's funny. Yeah, I was very surprised when I met you because your hair was gone. >> Judas Recendez: Yes, yes. I know. >> Matthew Krousey: My name's Matthew Krousey. I'd also like to just thank Carol and Craft in America, Patricia and the Library of Congress because when I got that email too I was like, I don't really care what's going on, I mean, feel like that's a invite. I'm a by enlarge a potter, like, a potter doesn't get that invite too often to demonstrate at the Library of Congress. So thanks for having me all the way from Minnesota. And so this is a picture, I always post this on Veterans Day because not many of my supporters, fans, customers, or individuals know that I'm a veteran because I feel like vets by enlarge, like, they don't like -- I don't know, brag about the fact that they're a veteran or something like that. And so I joined the military in 2003 with the Minnesota National Guard and was deployed to Iraq in well '04 to '05, it was like fall to fall. And so this is also a picture of a much younger me. It's always kind of funny to dig up these photos, like I only usually see it on Veterans Day and it's just funny to see it again, I was much more -- I don't know. Seeing the machine guns. It's like, oh, yeah, now I make pots. And so being from Minnesota, I grew up near a military base that's for reservists during National Guard members called Camp Ripley and my dad had been in the National Guard for thirty years and my, you know, grandma was a veteran and my great grandpa was a World War I vet, and so I always felt that need to, you know, kind of fulfill that family legacy. And also I thought well, if I'm going to go to school for potter because I've been obsessed with clay since I was a little kid, I saw a demonstration in kindergarten that was pretty much that. And so but I decided if I want to go to school and be an artist I can't have like a bunch of school debt and so I immediately joined the military. And then 9/11 happened and found myself in Iraq, which is just I feel like there's a reason the military recruits younger men by enlarge in the sense of they don't think through [laughter] I feel like young women maybe think things through a little more and it's more for country and service but I was definitely like, rah! But so this is a picture of where I grew up and this is where I live now, just to give a context of what my work is about. And so I took my military experience and used it to fuel my, kind of, urge to create and it added a seriousness, but by enlarge, the concept and the visuals in my art are in about my experience. And so when I was deployed I became really seeing all the destruction and devastation just made me really concerned, like when I get back home, like, the environment's being destroyed. And so for me, my work is about this little area of central Minnesota where there's a lot of, you know, just commercial development and things like that. And so my work spawns off this really local environment and so we have a lot of birds that migrate through Sandhill cranes have always been a strong influence for me, they nest on our property and on a lot of the joining fields. And so for me, that's when I want to protect now, like, my military experience, I got out in 2012 and so it was kind of like a jumping point because, you know, if you do twenty years you've got a retirement one day and so I was at nine and I was like, I think I just want to make pottery but sometimes I think about that. But so usually a lot of Sandhill cranes and Minnesota's kind of a hotbed for potters and we were having this argument because there's like, in the clay world there's such a history of craft and where we all that work in clay fit within that can sometimes be heated conversation, and not because there's necessarily a hierarchy, is just we're all trying to figure it out too. Like, am I an artist? Am I a craftsman? Am I both? Like, where do I belong in this world? And so I by enlarge make functional pots I fire like, one of the things I love about American and the military it's just the mishmash of culture. Like joining the military coming from rural Minnesota was just kind of an awakening of culture, like my battle buddy, my best friend was Ahmed Siddiqui from Pakistan, like, he was my best friend in the military and, like, in rural Minnesota that experience probably isn't going to play out. And so I always would think about that and just think about, you know, what a great experience that was, but now I'm like obsessed with these animals and I have to protect them. And so there's lots of horned owls and things oh, and so where I was going with that is the mishmash of culture of America is like what makes this so great. And so I was always laugh at American ceramic artists because we're kind of the one group of people in clay that can kind of pick and pull whatever they like from each culture and get away with it without getting into too much trouble. And you're not trying to take and it call it your own, but sense we don't have -- I mean, functional pots have a long history but the art side of clay doesn't have like one thousand years of history. I mean, unless you go into the native American culture, which does exist but by enlarge, you know, Europeans that came over brought all this mishmash culture. And so I always laugh because I fire in a German salt kiln but my aesthetic influence and the materials I use are by enlarge inspired by traditional Korean and Japanese ceramics and that's aesthetically what I've chosen to study but I always laugh because I'm firing in this German style and it's just I don't know. That's why America's yeah, it's pottery. I feel like the clay world's very embracing of that. But so we're the land of ten thousand lakes, so you've got to be worried about the fish too. And so kind of the thing I see is, like, I want people -- like each one of my functional pots to be a gentle reminder to the people using them that, like, hey, look out your window and maybe, you know, recycle. You know? Just -- I don't know. I feel like functional pots let's you kind of nudge in an opinion where people don't necessarily, you know, you just weasel it in there a little bit. And so I also do Minnesota's the land of artist grants, so for any of you artists out there, if you want to a lot of support Minnesota's a really great place to be. And this is from I had a Jerome Project Grant and I graduated from school with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in '08 and then had a couple different fellowships at a local clay center called, Northern Clay Center, it's like the big local nonprofit clay place. And then this was a Jerome Project Grant, so it's a foundation in Minnesota that gives grants for you to pursue new avenues of creating. And so I wanted to take all the functional work and put it on tiles and mount it on the wall because you can't really -- it's hard to exhibit functional pots in public avenues just because when you're making functional pots and you I were talking about this -- like, you want them to be used by people. Like, once they get put under plexi it's just kind of like it died. Especially if the artist is alive and creating it because it's not like it's never going to be able to be attained again. But so this duty work was an ability for me to do that and to show things at, like, train stops and things like that. And then a few years after that I got a grant from the State of the Arts Board to do large sculptural work that I put in parks, which strangely enough there was so much vandalizing Of the artwork. Which I was paid to make them, so it was okay, but somebody like shooting them with like a 22 caliber rifle. But it's funny none of them have holes they just have little chips because ceramic can take, you know, a 22 cal -- I mean, [inaudible] right? So the body armor of the clay was fine, just once things get chipped, you know? But I like to alter a lot and I like to work fairly fluid at the wheel and so I'll make just cylinders and then flatten them so I have two dimensions to work on versus a round service because that's kind of the tricky part with pots, it's like you're working in the round all the time and so if you start to distort things it's a little bit simpler. And then the same thing, this piece actually was in town over the weekend and so I by enlarge, I don't teach too much anymore, a little bit at nonprofit centers like Northern Clay Center and like Community ED, Adult Ed, things with not too high of a commitment because by enlarge I'm working in my studio at home producing work and then I go on the road to sell it. And so this weekend before there was a big poetry sale at the Hill Center which is the old Navel Civil War hospital that's an art center and so it's called Poetry on the Hill and so I was in invited to come to that show. And so it was really funny when I got the email from Carol because I was like, well, I don't need a plane ticket because I'll actually be in town already, which that never happens. >> Carol Sauvion: It's amazing. >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah, so that was pretty fun. And so I've been wandering around town all week, but so it's pretty great. And you meet a lot of vets in the arts, it's kind of peculiar because vets usually don't you know, they don't have it stamped on their forehead, but I feel like other vets can always pick them out of the crowd because there's just a certain way you carry yourself. Anybody that's prior service from the military just kind of stands a little straighter. And so I taught classes for veterans for a while and I was really intriguing. And I was just speaking with a gentleman about this outside that it was really intriguing to work -- because most of the vets our age it's really hard to get into a room to take art classes because they have kids, they have careers, they're just at a point in their life where they don't have time to, you know, do something on the side. And so what I learned from a lot -- most of the vets I taught were Vietnam and Korea was just I've been avoiding my experience, I guess, in a way, just like I'd rather just make pots and not think about it but they all said like, "Oh, just like in your 40s and 50s is when you'll get to do all that" and I always avoided the term therapy when I teach clay just because if do you that sometimes people new to something will shut down. And so I always told my vets that I was teaching like, you know, if you get something out of this, let's not label it but let me know because let's try to get it so you can keep doing this. So I partnered with a nonprofit in Minnesota called Veterans in the Arts and we lasted for five years and we taught classes to vets that would blow glass, all kinds of stuff. But it was really great and some of them have gotten money from the VA to set up studios at their homes actually because they found it beneficial enough. [Inaudible] there's some real crazy characters that I -- not that vets are crazy, we're normal people, but we tend to have pretty strong personalities I would say strong opinions. And so this is like barbed wire, concertina wire and so a lot of my motifs I guess in a way do kind of bridge a gap between my military service. You know, for me it's like if it's a nice aesthetic choice I'll incorporate it into the work and so, you know, barbed wire, concertina wire. And then just these, you know, simple motifs acting with each other but people kind of can bring in their own knowledge. But if you know old Korean or Japanese folk pots, like you can see some reference there. But I used to love the idea of like me firing in a German salt kiln and then salts firing, so it probably developed in the Rhineland region in Germany back in the 15th century because their wood firing using wood as fuel from old pickling barrels. And so it's like you can think sauerkraut and pickles for the salt content for creating salt firing. Because what's happening is the sodium from the salts combining with the silica in the clay and it's combining and doing its own thing. It's actually become particular in Japan though, which is really intriguing, like, in the Mashiko region. >> Carol Sauvion: Oh. >> Matthew Krousey: So like, Hamada and Shimaoka and those guys do that salt thing. But so I [inaudible] this picture the biggest thing I miss about being in the military is the just the camaraderie because I just feel like that was one of my biggest wounds when I left the service, is you're just lost, kind of, and I went back to school then right away if my deployment and just, like in the Guard. So when I wasn't deployed, I was just in the National Guard and, you know, it is the one week in the month, two weeks a year. And so you don't really build that camaraderie that you have when you're active. But so this is my new poetry family and so I'm part of a group of potters and I think clay really is I don't know if you guys probably agree it's tends to be a little more community oriented than a lot of other art forms just because it takes a village, kind of, to get things done. And so I do this big show, I'm part of a group that puts on a big show this thing, Croix Valley Pottery Tour in the spring and this is all the people that it takes to do that at my house and so that's kind of like my new little unit. Although very different than would ever join the military [laughter] I will acknowledge that that stereotype in my experience in the arts has kind of held that military folks are there should be a lot of is in there, but it's by enlarge a people that are going to join the military. I think you're next. Yeah. >> Ehren Tool: Oh, yeah. That's me one hundred pounds ago. Yeah, whatever. I was in '91 Gulf War, MP company Headquarters at the time 1st Marine Division. We were attached task force river and went from Saudi Arabia and to Kuwait. That's 12 noon during the oil fires in Kuwait. >> Carol Sauvion: Wow. >> Ehren Tool: And then at the end, that skinny little kid there, that's me. After the Gulf War I volunteered, I extended for fifteen months and I volunteered for embassy duty. Had two had hardship posts back to back, I was in Rome for fifteen months and then Paris for fifteen months. Let's say one hundred pounds ago I looked good in a uniform. I make cups, lots of cups. That's a great picture of me, yeah. Santa Clause and axe murderer is two comments I get most often. So this is I like putting all the cups together all together like that because you can kind of see, you know, a pattern or a sense of humor. Any one on its own can kind of be overwhelming but in a group like that I feel like it's, you know, it tells more of a full story, not that I think you can really express what war is or anything useful pretty much at all. But then it's also like when it's sitting on the wall there it looks kind of dead to me, it's a lot of more fun thinking about each of those cups from my hand to your hand, to some point five hundred thousand to a million years in the future. Like, you take the cup and it means something to you and then when you're gone because the cup meant something to you it'll mean to people that cared about you. And that so and that to me is a knowledge more interesting way to think about the cups living in time than in a white box someplace. A buddy of mine, photographer friend had a another buddy who had a riffle and we went out to the country and shot a bunch of cups and was, you know, trying to get the it was a high speed flash and so we have a bunch of pictures of a bullet right before a cup and then a pile of dust and a bullet beyond the cup but we got a few with the bullet right there. And that's that moment, right? Like, the cups can go unchipped for five hundred thousand to a million years and a little piece of led hits them and that's the end. And same way with all the war did, you know, they could have gone on to be doctors and lawyers and fathers and mothers but a little piece of led found them and that's it excuse me if I cry so I've been doing these little demo things or, you know, I get in invitations to make work places and this at Oscar Grant Plaza or Frank Ogawa Plaza, depending on your politics downtown Oakland. I did a thing a couple of months before this in Palo Alto, fancy neighborhood and the idea was I'd make cups for other veterans. In Palo Alto I met no vets, actually one of the janitors was a veteran. There was a bunch of people that worked in the defense industry, if you don't know Palo Alto, it's a pretty wealthy neighborhood. Lots of people made weapon systems and were living in that neighborhood. Then I got invited to Oakland and so every Sunday for the month where the show was up I had dragged this heavy kick wheel out there and throw in the middle of this plaza. And I was little nervous like, white boy jumping into downtown Oakland but there I a met a lot more vets and, you know, but some of them had drug and alcohol problems but so do I, so we got along fine and was able to give cups away to the community there. That was which way? So grad school, my first year of grad school Was the end of the first year of Gulf War II. Air quotes, right? Because we never stopped bombing Iraq since 91 but there were 93 U.S Combat Casualties that first year, so I made glazed decorated shot 393 cups. And in grad school, right? Functional pottery, they've got nothing to talk about, but I shot them wah, wah, wah, wah, wah [laughter] for months, like, the shattered vessel and whatever [laughter] this is the Museum of Craft and Folk Art in Los Angeles. You can't see it but on the wall there there's 1,300 cups for a show. The curator asked me, "Do you want a solo show a group show?" And I was like, "If you're asking I guess I want a solo show" but then I panicked and, you know, wanted to make sure I had enough work but that's when I realized I crossed the line between productive and obsessive, right? 1,300 cups for a cup that's a little this is at Palo Alto Art Center. This is a I didn't send it. This is a great picture just off to the right it says, "Please don't touch" which is stupid to me because I gave the, all away, like, but I was there for a month, they let me work there for a month. They wrote a grant that paid for their crew to fire the kilns and stuff and so all those cups I made there in Palo Alto and that was fun, yeah, anyway, cups. Craft in America cups, a professional took those pictures [laughter] and that yeah, yeah, toys. I just make cups. So that's like, I have like the idea of taking a photograph of a three dimensional thing, it's kind of funny, but so that's the front of one and that's the back or I don't know, right? So the target, right? Even the most justified kill, even the most, you know, righteous shoot is still somebody's baby and I didn't think that, you know, when I was Marines I was just a kid, I didn't know what I was doing. But, you know, when my son was born, it was like a flash, like, all of a sudden everybody became somebody's kid. And, you know, with like a anyway, just broken people break people, you know, and it's just little kids, you know that somebody didn't hold when they were supposed to or I don't know cups. That's, yeah, when we were in France my son said, "Dad grow a beard" I was like, okay I'm in France, who cares nobody's going to see it. Then I grew the beard and my son said, "Dad, I like your beard better than your face" [laughter] and my wife was quiet and I was like, okay I'm not going to ask her to sit in, so I grew the beard. But that's my studio, that's why I love invitations like this because your studio is much nicer than mine. Nice and people come visit and I'm just alone in the bunker there. Is that it? >> Carol Sauvion: I think that's it. >> Ehren Tool: Right on. >> Carol Sauvion: Yay. >> Ehren Tool: Thanks folks. [ Applauding ] Back to crack. >> Carol Sauvion: I'd like to know, does anyone have a question? Because I do, but if no one else does. >> Ehren Tool: Which bar? [Laughter] >> Carol Sauvion: No, this is about your professionals lives. >> Ehren Tool: I mean. >> Carol Sauvion: When did each of you decide you wanted to spend your life as an artist? Did it have anything to do with the military service or was it something earlier on in your life or do you consider yourself artists. So those are my questions. >> Ehren Tool: Well, he's the only professional artist up here teachers and whatever, I don't know kiln [inaudible] >> Matthew Krousey: I just don't have a long enough attention span to be a teacher. No, I mean for me, it was really early on but I felt, I mean, was a chemistry major before I was deployed and then I came home and immediately switched to fine arts. >> Carol Sauvion: Okay. >> Matthew Krousey: Because I felt like I'm going to do whatever I want to do. >> Ehren Tool: Craft in America. >> Matthew Krousey: You know, you, I think after being in a war zone you're just like, I mean, I'm going to do whatever I want. I don't care if it's a financially, you know, good choice like I, you know, you just like I'm going to be an artist but I was always in clay my whole life. I mean, since saw a demo when I was in kindergarten, like, I was like I want to do that but then it was like secondary plan until, you know, you just have a different mindset after. >> Ehren Tool: Yeah. Just, I mean, join Marine Cor, like I'm going to do four years in the Marine when I told my granddad I joined the Marine Cor he laughed and he said, "They're going to take your soul" [laughter] I was like, way to destroy my Kodak moment granddad. But, you know, you join the Marine Cor, you're like, oh, four years, what's the big year, get money for college and then two years in the work kicks off and you're like oh, wow, you know, like? And so that was the thing for me it's like, you know, nothing guarantees success so you might as well do something you love, right? And if you love it maybe you'll do it well and if you do it well maybe someone will pay you [laughter] but the pay you thing hasn't worked out but whatever. But it's still like, you know, it's just and if I'm an artist or a crafts person or whatever, I don't that's somebody else some art historians problem. I think everybody's obligation is to make their work. If you're a painter and painting's dead, sucks to be you, but don't make bad videos, like, you know? You're supposed to make your work. And, you know, the vision of labor in the arts, like let somebody else put what section of the book it goes in or. >> Matthew Krousey: Sure. >> Ehren Tool: That's not my I don't have. >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah. There's no line that dictates it. >> Judas Recendez: Yeah, for sure. I definitely find especially myself, when joining the military, feeling especially that brotherhood with other individuals especially, you know, looking after them and then looking after you. But getting out of that a veteran, producing whatever that may be but I produce art, if that makes an artist that's fine I don't whatever. It just helps me continue that drive that the military helped instilled in me and I'm not this serious all the time. I like to have fun but especially introducing ceramics to maybe a younger generation at the community college where I grew up, so that is like huge for me and I try to make it as enjoyable for them to help them learn those fundamentals so they could go on and do whatever they want to do so. >> Carol Sauvion: Right. Yes, Terra? >> Terra: I love yeah I love the small, very minimalist images of the animals that are on your pieces, where do those come from for you? >> Matthew Krousey: Oh, for me? >> Terra: Yeah. >> Matthew Krousey: Sorry, I thought you were talking to Jude, I was like >> Terra: I know it's like >> Matthew Krousey: Oh, no. So for me it's just where grew up, like that picture says it all. And so that environment like I I mean, it goes back a ways. So my grandpa grew up on some property that like no running water and my dad grew up there too and it was, you know, five hundred acres of like untouched Central Minnesota. And so when he passed away and that God sold off it's like, boom, subdivision. And so just it's like my anger from combat and just the nonsense of all of it has just been redirected to that. And so they're just the characters that live there if that makes sense. Like barred owls, Sandhill cranes, fish in the lake, I just like to work minimalist because if you abstract the minimalist the viewer can take in whatever they want from it. But my reasoning is, you know, to preserve some sort of record of them being there because clay and history that's really what I mean, at an archeological dig it's all the clay shards that they're looking at because that's what stood the test of time. And so kind of going with your concept, like, they might break into a zillion pieces but those pieces are going to be there because they're rocks now so yeah. >> Ehren Tool: Yeah. >> Matthew Krousey: Like your cups, you know? If you smash them they're still going to be there. >> Ehren Tool: Shards, future Shards. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's part of thing too is recording. Like, this is happening, you know? Like, I don't like here it's easy to forget that it's happening but it's happening and it's really real for a lot of people and so there's something, you know, rather than just, you know, setting my hair on fire and scream naked down the street, I make cups. And, you know, just record some of the stuff that's happening and, you know, the weirdness of going to Gulf War and coming home and seeing toys, you know, for six year olds, like, you know, wearing gas masks with blister agents, you know, it's. >> Matthew Krousey: Oh, yeah. >> Ehren Tool: You know, how do you explain to a 6 year old what mustard gas is, you know, like it's just not and just how weird and perverse. When I was at USC for undergrad, University of Southern California they were really proud, right when I left they had just opened this new research facility and it was funded 50/50 the military and the entertainment industry and it was virtual reality, you know, for training, you know and that I think, you know, training saves lives but it's also like entertainment history, like mixing, you know, making war fun. And, you know, I think the soldiers and the Marines that are out there now, maybe pilots, everybody, they're more lethal than ever before because of the training, you know, learning how to get people to kill and you know, using sights and using screens and joysticks instead of, you know [inaudible] I think it hopefully it's easier I mean, it's just a weird like, do you want to make killing easier? >> Matthew Krousey: Well, yeah. Make it impersonal, yeah. >> Carol Sauvion: I'll have to think about it. >> Ehren Tool: The darkest pottery conversation. >> Carol Sauvion: We have a another question. >> Unidentified Speaker: Hello. >> Ehren Tool: Hi. >> Unidentified Speaker: Did any of you ever feel like a "struggling" artist and if so, did any of you have a plan B? >> Matthew Krousey: I don't think any of us have a plan B, but do we all feel like struggling artists? >> Ehren Tool: Well, sure. >> Judas Recendez: I mean, yes. Plan B is to produce more, so that is how I'm trying to solve it. >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah. >> Judas Recendez: But basically for how my practice works up is I just ask questions, that's usually what I like to do. And there's plenty of questions you may not like the answer, but there are all these questions. And if I can get somebody to talk about it then I find to be successful whether it be funny or some way to too serious so that's it, yeah. >> Ehren Tool: I went to gallery I was trying to get my work into a gallery and the gallery owner said "Well, the work's strong but what's for sale?" And I said, "There's more to art than money, right?" And she said "Not much" which I appreciated her honesty about that I, think most guys would just be like, I'm sorry, sir, your work's just not for us. But I think, you know, part of the I tell the students like if you have to make art then, you know, prepare for the beat down and enjoy your time. If making art as a choice for you, then go talk to the career counselor and figure out what you're going to do because you're not going to do it. So it's not like you know, I'm a little sad at the 1st and the 15th when I look at my bank statements, you know, those are sad but the day to day life, hanging out with folks like you all, you know, getting to travel the world as a potter, not as solider, you know, it's magic. And just, you know, the art collection, the artists that I've traded stuff with, like, if you put a dollar on it, it might be worth something but it's just so nice to me. And I think honestly, if I was doing almost anything else, I would have swallowed a bullet by now for you know, I just wouldn't have been able to. I mean so the struggle's real but and I'm lucky my wife is a ceramic artist, my mother in law, you know, I've got a day job where I can sneak my stuff into the kiln you know but it's a lot of luck and yeah. >> Matthew Krousey: I had a good friend, fellow potter [inaudible] yeah, tell me once, "you know there's no plan B your skill set doesn't allow to you do anything else" and so I feel like I've reached that point and I just I couldn't imagine I mean, I would just never not do what I do. But I think I mean, I'm on the more functional side and so making at living at it, you know, it's easier to argue I think with folks. Like, I feel like I do just as well making pots as I would do in anything else. But every day when I wake up, I mean that's what I do and I do it all the way, you know? I mean, you work way longer hours than we always joke, like, man, if I had been a lawyer, like I'd be the most successful lawyer there's ever been. I'm working like 12, 14 hours a day, but you're working the work and it you know, just feels young. >> Judas Recendez: And, you know, if you're crafty enough you can get hopefully somebody to flip the bill for you. >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah. Yeah. You figure it out. >> Judas Recendez: Yeah, if it squeezes you, you will definitely try to find ways so. >> Ehren Tool: Artist grants and. >> Judas Recendez: Yeah. >> Ehren Tool: But I mean, my granddad, he said he always wished he'd learned to paint. If he had picked up a brush the first time he told me that, he would have been painting for at least thirty years when he died but he never and it went to his grave as a regret that he never did it, you know, and so better not to regret. >> Matthew Krousey: [Inaudible] >> Ehren Tool: Yeah. >> Carol Sauvion: Yes? >> Unidentified Speaker: I was an Army Chaplain for about ten [inaudible] but within and not a Jewish chaplain so I'm going to butcher this a little bit, but it's been important to me, in my process, is within Jewish culture there's a concept of the responsibility of remaking the world. And that's kind of where I couch my arts practice is that bringing beauty and breathing life into the world, and I was wondering if that is something you may not have phrased it that way to yourselves, but in your practice of art or what draws you to what you do, is that part of what brings you to the ceramics. The molding, the creating something out of nothing that takes shape, and particularly with functional art, I mean, there's within the minor profits in those last days, even the cooking pots having [inaudible] and Holy to the Lord, like there's a real sacredness to that work. So that's a lot of thoughts and if anything I'll throw it at the wall and if anything sticks or resonates with you I just invite to you speak to it. >> Matthew Krousey: I mean, for and I'm speaking about my practice, but for my I mean, I want things to be aesthetically pleasing, like make people happy. So you and I we should have a show that's like duality [laughter] but the concept of I mean, more of the other depressing topics can be beautiful. >> Ehren Tool: Yeah, mushroom cloud, it's the beauty of a mushroom cloud. >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah, like out of context it's beautiful. >> Ehren Tool: I do have a fantasy though, like, I don't like saying it public, but, right? So, like, the Oriental Museum in Chicago saw this old bowl it was pre Jesus, Judea and they had painted a demon in the center and then a maze around it and they put it upside-down under the house before they built it. And so like if good and evil is like electricity, like positive and negative, it's just a thing that must manifest in the physical world period. Then my fantasy is that I can catch evil in the clay and that dead baby is a dead baby for a million years and that can save, you know this is my fantasy, you know, if I'm talking snake in a burning bush, like I can have mine too [laughter] but that's my fantasy about it. >> Unidentified Speaker: I'd like the correct [inaudible] [laughter] >> Judas Recendez: No, for sure. Especially with ceramic ware, it's this intimacy that you have with it. I mean, you're bringing it to your face, your lips on it, you know, you're holding it in your hands and I think that's a factor a narration can continue, rather than just having your Starbucks coffee cup and something like that. And it can have this dialog where any other medium it's really you really can't get it with that or I haven't seen it yet, like, maybe it's out there. >> Ehren Tool: And you said that too about functional stuff and being able to >> Matthew Krousey: Yeah, I mean, you get to touch it. It's craft art, however you want to label it, you get to touch it and it's like promoted to touch it. Even if it's a sculpture or something because touching is not going to hurt it. >> Ehren Tool: Right. >> Matthew Krousey: I mean, unless it's in a collection. >> Judas Recendez: It seems like we have had this real problem of art and craft, this whole like >> Matthew Krousey: Oh, I mean, I don't I don't. Clay. >> Judas Recendez: Yes, that is true. >> Matthew Krousey: But my problem is like the touching part because of the intimacy of >> Judas Recendez: Yeah. >> Matthew Krousey: You know, it was molded by the hand. I feel like clay removes I mean, we have tools, but you kind of the tools are moved and it's really the individual that's coming through, not to degrade painting and the print making or other things. >> Judas Recendez: Oh, yeah, that's right. >> Matthew Krousey: I feel like the process is so immediate, that like, the thumbprint could be in it. >> Ehren Tool: But that's another thing to talk about. War with ceramics is that, you know, it's real immediate you do your bend, your push, your punch, you make your little marks and then it goes through the fire and five hundred thousand to a million years it's around. Same way, you know, these little, you know, we must do this, we might fight these people. These little immediate things have repercussions last, you know, forever, they don't wars don't end like with a signature so. >> Carol Sauvion: Any other questions? >> Ehren Tool: Which bar? Sorry [laughter] >> Carol Sauvion: I have one last question and it's kind of opened ended, what's next for all three of you? >> Ehren Tool: More cups. >> Judas Recendez: Produce more. Yeah, no. That is a good question. >> Judas Recendez: Do a thing and I'll just rattle something off quick. >> Judas Recendez: There you go. There you go. While I ponder on the >> Matthew Krousey: For me it's just keep on keeping on. I mean, make the work and get it out into the world. I mean, that's just kind of I feel like the stage of my year man, it's that, just keep on chugging. Which I think it's any artist, I mean, your goal is to reach as many the largest audience you can so that your voice is heard. >> Ehren Tool: Yeah. I mean, just somebody was like, when did you, like, master pottery? I was like, what are you talking about I've only been doing it twenty years, I'm still working on it. Like, I think I'm starting to get it. It's not a I mean Ken Price was talking about that like you just don't just retire as an artist, you die. You just work until it's over. You're always obtaining new you know, techniques and, you know, meeting new people and having influences back and forth. You know, even teaching, teaching is a big influencer on, you know, just having the students around and the stupid questions they ask [laughter] but, you know, it's like, okay, why do it that way? I don't know. That's you know, then anyway. [Inaudible] >> Judas Recendez: No, for sure. It's definitely putting some more tools in the toolbox and trying to incorporate maybe cross mediums of ceramics to other pieces. So yeah, just keeping going on, I mean, I'm you know, it's all uphill but the view is great so. >> Carol Sauvion: Well, I'd like to comment that there aren't that many people in our society now who are so satisfied, not that you're satisfied particularly with the work you're doing now, but with your choice. You see a long road to go with this choice. It's not like you're looking for alternatives, you've made up your minds and that's pretty impressive now a days. So I thank you all three for coming here and for working today. >> Ehren Tool: Such a pleasure. >> Judas Recendez: Yes, thank you. >> Matthew Krousey: Thank you. >> Carol Sauvion: And so see this beautiful place and to meet these people. >> Ehren Tool: Yes. Thank you. >> Carol Sauvion: Yes. Yes. Thank you very much. [ Applauding ] Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. >> Karen Lloyd: Just don't go too far, I've got one presentation I'd like to make. What an amazing group of people and I cannot thank you enough for coming to kick this off first. What an amazing weekend, you've started it off with a bang. >> Carol Sauvion: Wow. [ Applauding ] >> Karen Lloyd: So but before you go, I just want our participants to understand how much we appreciate all that they've done for us all day long. It's been amazing for me to watch and others that have come by and seen it. So, Ehren. >> Ehren Tool: Oh, wow. Oh, cool. >> Karen Lloyd: It's like back in the military [laughter] >> Ehren Tool: I'm blessed. >> Judas Recendez: Oh, thank you. >> Carol Sauvion: Oh, thank you so much, Ehren. >> Ehren Tool: That's awesome. >> Karen Lloyd: So again, thank you. Thank you. It's just a certificate of appreciation and that's exactly how we feel about, not just your service, but your choice to be with us here today. >> Ehren Tool: Right on. Thank you so much. >> Carol Sauvion: Thank you very much. >> Ehren Tool: It's so important what you're doing we really appreciate it. >> Judas Recendez: Yes. >> Ehren Tool: Being included. >> Karen Lloyd: It's a team effort just like in the military, that's what makes it so special. >> Carol Sauvion: Thank you very much. >> Ehren Tool: Thank you. >> Carol Sauvion: Thank you. [ Applauding ] Great. >> Ehren Tool: Oh, cool. All right.