>> Mary DuPont: Good afternoon.
Thanks, everybody,
for coming very much.
I'm Mary DuPont and I'm really
proud to be here to talk
about the book, "Mrs.
Ambassador," and the career
and legacy of Eugenie Anderson.
So, again, thanks
very much coming.
And I'd especially like
to thank Meg Metcalf,
reference librarian here
in the main reading room.
But she also coordinates so
many different book lectures
and outreach visits, workshops
and research orientations.
A lot of work.
And I'm so impressed by her
bringing multiple perspectives
to the vast resources here
at the Library of Congress.
And I'd also like to thank Carry
Arfstrom [assumed spelling],
my friend of 35 years, who is an
amazing Washington host and does
so much for me when I'm in DC.
You're a treasure.
So as an introduction, for
those who are new to the subject
of "Mrs. Ambassador," Eugenie
Moore Anderson achieved historic
diplomatic status when President
Truman appointed her the first
woman ambassador for the
United States in 1949.
While she was in Denmark
she was the first woman
to sign an international
treaty on behalf of the US.
She went on to serve as
the first woman chief
of mission behind the Iron
Curtain as minister to Bulgaria
in 1962 and was a delegate
to the United Nations
from 1965 to '68.
In her younger years Anderson
studied music and philosophy
at several colleges, including
Carlton College in Minnesota
and Julliard in New York City.
She got married when she was 21
and was not politically active
until the late 1930s when rising
fascism and threats of war
in Europe motivated
her to get involved.
After a short eye opening
trip to Europe in 1937.
She joined the league of women
voters in Redwing, Minnesota.
And through volunteer efforts
discovered she had a talent
for delivering speeches.
Moreover, she enjoyed
public speaking.
I need a little drink
of water, sorry.
So, where am I?
However, as World War II came
to an end, Anderson determined
that the only way to
truly influence policy
and foreign affairs was
to join partisan politics.
In other words, she needed
to leave the women's
clubs and join the men.
The history and details
of her journey
with the Democratic Party
and subsequent international
appointments and work
in diplomacy are documented
in the biography,
"Mrs. Ambassador."
So why did Eugenie
feel compelled
to put herself forward
during a period of time
in American history when
the presiding assumption
for women was to
keep them shrouded
in domestic feminine mystique?
The simple answer
was her combination
of individual energy,
her own personal magic,
with the power of her education.
But the more complex truthful
answer begs an acknowledgement
of Anderson's refusal to conform
to expectations of women.
Somewhat like her
political stance,
which was solidly moderate,
center spectrum democrat.
She kept her public
record deliberately
on women's rights
fairly neutral.
Throughout her career
Anderson insisted
that gender should have no
influence on one's politics
and that women's rights
were basically a subset
of the more critical rights
of civil and human rights.
In effect, it was her focus
on non-gender specific agendas
and philosophies that allowed
her to stay at the table,
typically the only woman at
that table, to affect policy.
I'm showing you a cartoon
from the 1950s called,
"Strange as it Seems."
It ran weekly in syndicated
newspapers nationwide
and featured news,
history and trivia aimed
to shock the audience
in the style
of Ripley's Believe it or Not.
In January of 1951
Eugenie Anderson appeared
in its full color Sunday comic.
Hers is the largest, most
prominent illustration
by the masthead title.
The surprising nature of the
political appointment bestowed
on her was in the scope
of this cartoon comparable
to horns on a snake.
To a garish and repulsive mammal
and to an abnormally
proportioned bird.
The men she joins
on the storyboard do not have
the same strange natures.
It was their actions
or discoveries
that were considered surprising.
They're noted for what they
did or put into action.
Eugenie's noted simply
because she is female,
not because of something
she did,
but because something
was given to her.
To be honest, I think I'm a bit
of an anomaly here
at this podium today.
Close this out.
Oh man. Nope, I found it.
I'm a Mac person.
This is not a Mac.
Okay. So, I could be intimidated
by the roster of other kinds
of speakers who have been here.
Well known authors, maybe other
ambassadors, lauded historians.
I am an unknown writer
from the frozen Midwest.
I'm not faculty of a university
or with a firm or a government,
I have been a stay at
home mom for 23 years.
Granted I have been writing
and researching all that time
and I have lots of
other great ideas.
But I generally decline
to discuss my own politics
with anyone but family
or close friends.
I think I feel that it
is precisely my view
from the outside that
attracted me to try
to draw this illustration
of a woman
who also started
out on the outside.
Eugenie Anderson
was my grandmother.
When I was little I didn't call
her grandma, I called her Genie.
She made really good
cinnamon rolls.
Her home was filled with
books and serious magazines
and newspapers and modern art
and a Steinway grand piano.
While she told me stories about
her grandfather's twin brother,
who was killed in the
Civil War, and ancestors
who hid runaway slaves in their
home on the underground railway.
An English columnist
in the 1630s.
I began to realize that my
life was personally connected
to multiple arenas
of US history,
right back to the beginnings.
But what I did not realize
is that the one gifting me
with those roots and
heritage had affected American
history herself.
She was a story in her
own right and her presence
and contributions had changed
the course for not only women
in the 20th century,
but for all citizens.
There are so many
different aspects
to Eugenie's long
career, but, of course,
I can't squeeze everything
into one hour today.
I'll have to circumvent
many of the personal details
of her life, her modern,
complicated, loving,
yet problematic marriage.
Her struggle as a career mother,
when such a thing was so rare.
Her impressive contributions
to the Democratic Party
in Minnesota and Vice President
Humphrey throughout his
long career.
And I'll have to wrap up before
discussing at length her work
with the United Nations.
All in the book.
Today I'll concentrate
on her two historic
diplomatic appointments abroad
as chief of mission.
Specifically, what were her
most lasting achievements,
both in Denmark and Bulgaria
and what were her
biggest challenges there.
When Anderson began her
first post in Denmark
in 1949 she brought along a
relatively new idea called,
people's diplomacy
and pushed it farther
than any ambassador
had yet attempted.
She learned Danish
to show respect
to the people of Denmark.
Eugenie recalled that her deputy
chief of mission, Edward Sparks,
told her that studying
Danish was a waste of time
and completely unnecessary
for diplomatic relations
with anyone important.
But Eugenie already knew that
neither of the Prime Minister
of Denmark, nor many others in
the government, spoke English.
Understanding between herself
and anyone on the street led
to much wider recognition
of her person
and her goals throughout
the country.
So when she gave a speech to
thousands of people in person
or broadcast over
the radio in Danish,
its people could immediately
hear the intensity and sincerity
of her message of
post-war healing.
This was an American woman
pledging friendship and alliance
and NATO support against the
very real communist threat,
only 90 miles from
the Dane's shore.
In my book I wrote a fair amount
about the highly challenging
situations Eugenie faced
in being a female
chief of mission.
I also examined the effect
that the reverse role
of the sexes put on her
husband, in order to put some
of that in a nutshell.
I looked to fill up Nash's
brand new book called,
"Breaking Protocol."
It just came out,
it's a terrific book
about the first six
women in top positions.
Nash writes, "After some
time in her position,
Anderson retained a mix of
views on the gender issue.
On the one hand, she was
reinforced in her impression
that she was contributing
to gender progress.
She was gratified by the
many letters she received
from women stating how
pleased and inspired they were
by her appointment and how
well it reflected on all women.
But on the other hand, she could
downplay her female identity.
Wanting to be remembered not
as America's first female
envoy, but as a good one."
Anderson said in 1962, "The
important thing for any woman
in public life is to forget
first that she is a woman
and concentrate on
her objectives."
Nash finalizes with, "She also
publicly denied the existence
of any downsides to being
a female ambassador,
which was obviously untrue."
His -- certainly the gender
issue was a challenge,
but one of Eugenie's
greatest achievements came
about because of it.
She proved that a relatively
younger, married women
with children still at home,
could go to the office every
day, manage a staff of hundreds
and the responsibility of
chief and could succeed
in bolstering international
confidence
in the United States beyond
just maintaining cordial
formal relationships.
Using people's diplomacy
and her positive image
in the press Anderson engrained
herself in her objectives
so effectively with
the Danish population
that she reinforced
Denmark's cooperation
in the North Atlantic treaty.
Genuinely helping
both the government
and the citizens feel
stronger in their alliance.
This did not happen without
sacrifice or personal strings.
When the Korean conflict was
brewing in December of 1950
and the very real threat
of Russian missiles threatened
any US military presence,
especially within close
proximity, the Andersons had
to decide if they would
put their children
on a ship back home to
greater safety in America.
So I have an expert from
chapter 3 that I'd like to read.
Ultimately Eugenie could
not do it, because she knew
that such an action
would publicly call
into question everything she
had ever said about the strength
of the United States,
its commitment to NATO
and the United Nations and
the calm face of control
that she felt all citizens of
the free world must present
to communist aggressors.
Oh, she was tough on communists.
She would not undermined her
standing as a strong ambassador,
even while it required her
to appear unfeminine
or non-maternal.
She cared more that the Dane's
respected and trusted her
as their political
liaison and ally,
than what they might
think of her as a mother.
By the time Eugenie began
her second top posting
in communist Bulgaria, both she
and the US had changed
culturally.
Glimmers of life beyond the
feminine mystique were sparking
here and there.
Betty Friedan was soon to
publish her now historic study
that asked women and housewives,
"Is homemaking really
all there is for us?"
Politically the glamour
of JFK and Jackie
and the new frontier had
moved into the White House,
essentially painting an
illustration of youth and hope
and progress over a much
more complex reality
of boiling differences in
the American population.
For Eugenie personally life
had changed significantly
since returning from
Denmark eight years before.
Now at this point in 1962
she was a grandmother,
with quite a lot of grey hair.
Two things the press
dwelt on relentlessly.
Instead of Mrs. Anderson
or Mrs. Ambassador,
she was called the more formal,
Madam Minister or informally
in the press, Babita, which
is Bulgarian for grandmother.
Upon meeting President
Kennedy he initially forgot
which ligation she
had been appointed to
and told her he hoped
Belgrade would be not too much
of a hardship post.
Seated next to Robert Kennedy
at a white tie dinner soon
after the President's
brother confused Eugenie
with Frances Willis, who
was then the ambassador
to Sri Lanka.
So, my best illustrations
of her time
in Bulgaria are other
excerpts from the book,
so I will read a
couple of those.
In October of 1963
Anderson flew to Bonn,
Germany to attend a conference
with the complete roster
of American chiefs of
mission to both the eastern
and western countries.
Eastern, western
European countries.
A number of other top state
department officials were there,
in addition to Secretary
of State, Dean Rusk.
So it was quite a
large conference,
of which Eugenie
was the only woman.
After Secretary Rusk
gave his central talk,
the east European mission
chiefs had an opportunity
for a roundtable
of sorts with him.
Anderson sent the
following account
to her family describing
an amusing bit of repartee
between Rusk and myself.
I'll explain the
word amusing later.
Anderson wrote, "Rusk was
explaining to the group
that he felt that the
present dynamic situation
in Eastern Europe offers the
US definite possibilities
to help the individual countries
towards more independence."
Rusk said, "If Eugenie will
permit me to use the phrase,
I might say that we should use
the methods of seduction and not
of rape in this process
towards their freedom."
When Eugenie interjected,
"Perhaps a woman has a certain
advantage in this situation."
Everyone laughed.
Someone said, "Touché."
And Rusk joined in heartily.
No hesitation, no
flinch, no fumble.
Secretary of State Rusk
through a rape metaphor
at the only female
chief present,
who without blinking an
eye diminished its potency
with skillful banter.
And not only did she take
ownership of the analogy,
but she deflected any
continuing emphasis on the fact
that she was the only
woman in the room.
Can't take a joke,
is one of the oldest
and most treacherous methods
of segregating women
from the men's club.
It took quick reflexes, guts
and political expertise to grab
that analogy, dilute it
with her own sense of humor
and squash it before it
got more confrontational.
I have no doubt that Eugenie had
parried dozens of times before
with similar verbal challenges
and probably preferred
crossing swords
with men she could
call fellow patriots,
versus communist
party officials bent
on their own agendas
of intimidation.
Switching gears.
So, Eugenie's reputation in the
press was always problematic.
A lose, lose situation.
Even as more and more
political insiders continued
to take her seriously and on
her own merits, newspapers
and writers persisted
in focusing attention
on the contradictions
of her femininity.
Neil Hurley, a business
writer for the magazine,
"International Commerce,"
published an article titled,
"Blue Eyed and Faithful,
the Ministers a Doll."
In the piece he described
his impressions
of the legations
in Sofia, Bulgaria.
"There is hardly a
picture to brighten a wall,
but a third floor sweet was
as cheerful as a daiquiri,
made so by its occupant,
the minister
of the United States
legation, Eugenie Anderson."
An embassy official said,
"Just do not mistake the
natural warmth in her expression
for tolerance, those baby
blue eyes can turn icy
as Siberian weather."
Mrs. Anderson is a lady in the
fine sense, pretty as a magnolia
in springtime Charleston.
She serves at this
austere outpost with faith
as strong as the Marines.
Oftentimes femininity
takes over.
At a United States reception
this week she asked an aid
to perform minor chores
before guests arrived,
while she checked
on main concern,
the arrangement of canapés.
Except for perhaps Mrs. Frances
Willis, and Mrs. Catherine White
in Denmark, she is the only US
chief of mission in the world
to put a priority
on the delicacies.
One evening the minister
at a business reception,
carefully quaffed and wearing a
fashionable dress of green silk,
stood before a standing,
pushing crowd of 500 packed
into a space small
enough for a cloak room.
In Bulgarian first and
then translating herself
into English, she spoke of her
hopes for friendship and trade.
An American stepped to the
stand when the crowd dispersed,
"Madam Minister," he
said, "you are a doll."
And she really is.
End of the article.
Still aware that she was best
served by ignoring labels,
like doll, dame or lady boss,
the quips were getting old.
In the last month of her
mission in Bulgaria, delivering
yet another protest to the
Bulgarian foreign ministry
for some transgression
or another,
Eugenie recalled using her
familiar code phrase for anger,
one rather amusing thing.
She wrote, "Finally the
deputy foreign minister,
Angeloff [assumed spelling],"
he was an old Stalinist,
he said in desperation, "Mrs.
Anderson, I really don't
like to be rough with you
because you are a
very charming lady,
but after all this I
cannot except your protest."
And I said, "Mr. Minister,
I am not in your country
because I am a lady, I am
here making this protest
as the American minister and I
insist that you must accept it
on behalf of my government."
I'm just really furious to be
told he didn't like to do it
because I was a charming lady.
When I said this, he was
a little bit embarrassed.
He didn't really quite know
what to say or what to do.
I think in the end I walked out
and left the paper on the table.
One second.
I find it hard to encapsulate
Minister Anderson's time
in Bulgaria.
With top bullet points of
accomplishments and challenges.
Even the fact that she
survived the restrictions
of the constant secret police
and government surveillance
and the impossibility of
cross-cultural exchanges
under such a harsh Stalinist
regime, even that was a triumph.
She did successfully negotiate
and sign financial war claim
settlements between the US
and Bulgaria that
had been hanging
in limbo for 12 or 15 years.
And she made temporary progress
providing the Bulgarian people
with glimmers of
American life in commerce.
But even her small advances
were considered dangerous
by the Soviets.
After President Kennedy's
assassination,
when Bulgarians came out
by the thousands to stand
in line outside the
American legation,
following through the office
to sign a guest register
and offer sympathies when
the police weren't listening,
to Minister Anderson,
their babita.
The communist party contrived to
embroil the US in a spy trial.
Anderson was far too popular.
Then they orchestrated
another street mob attack
on the legation, supposedly
calling it a reaction of anger
against the Americans
in the spy trial.
And if this sounds
like a complicated plot
out of a John le Carre novel,
it was often like that.
The bottom line was
that Eugenie,
the silver haired grandmother
who learned Bulgarian
and charmed the people,
if she had no hope
of diplomatic progress
behind the Iron Curtain,
it was hard to imagine
anyone who would have.
Phillip Nash wrote that
the decidedly non-feminist,
George Kennan, who had one
fame as intellectual architect
at the containment policy,
Kennan wrote Dean Rusk a letter
about his Sofia colleague
Anderson.
He said, "She has shown
not only common sense,
but exceptional shrewdness
and courage
in tackling this
diplomatic task.
It's among the most
formidable faced
by any chiefs of
mission anywhere."
Eugenie Anderson came home from
Bulgaria in December of 1964.
She had weathered the
hardship post for 2 years.
Under President Johnson's
administration,
with Hubert Humphrey's
sponsorship,
Anderson came very close to
appointments as ambassador
to both Canada and then Israel.
But ultimately she joined the
United Nations delegation headed
by Arthur Goldberg and
served on many committees
and counsels from 1965 to '68.
When her team was on vacation
in July of 1966, necessitating
that Anderson cover all of the
UN needs, she was recognized
by General Secretary
Yuthond [assumed spelling]
as the first woman ambassador
from the United States to sit
on the UN Security Council.
I think, again, of that
strange as it seems cartoon,
with the human slash
animal, vegetable,
mineral abnormalities
highlighted as stupefying.
A woman as ambassador.
Organic biologists marvel at
that tiny percentage of time
that human beings have been
on Earth compared to the age
of the entire planet
and I marvel
at the very small percentage
of time in our history,
comparatively, that women
have occupied public roles
and influenced foreign policy.
The most important
work is, of course,
present day, what's
happening now.
Do that work, apply your mental
power to its best potential,
whether you are male or female.
And that's what Eugenie preached
throughout her entire career.
But I feel that to solidify
any progress towards global
understanding and build
on positive initiatives
it's essential
to see the whole
history behind it.
And that includes the work of
overlooked women trailblazers.
So I'm very proud to have
brought one of these women
into the bigger history.
So, I'm equally proud to offer
a collection of film clips.
Eugenie's husband, John, was
a photographer and an artist
and he created -- well, I'm
biased, but other people aren't,
they agree, just beautiful,
thousands of still shots,
black and white slides, films,
both 16 and 8 millimeter.
So, wonderful quality films.
And I put together some that
show a bit of Eugenie's career
from 1949 through 1964.
It runs about 28 minutes.
So it's a good chunk of time
and I think there was a hope
for maybe a few questions
afterwards.
So, that's where
we'll be at right now.
Okay, I can do this.
And tell me if it needs
like volume adjustment.
[ Music and Singing ]
I'm so sorry to pause
it, but I have to.
Sorry to pause it.
Very quickly, there's
a little segment coming
up where it's captioned that
she is with Ralph Bunche,
that is an extremely
embarrassing era.
It's Carl Rowan.
So forgive me, it
will be changed.
[ Music and Singing ]
[ Silence ]
[ Applause ]
Thanks. Where we at at time?
>> So we have about 10,
15 minutes for questions
and then book sales
and signings out front.
>> Mary DuPont: Great.
Yes?
>> You mentioned
that she studied
and learned Danish while she
was the ambassador of Denmark
and I saw she was chatting very
amiably with the Bulgarians,
did she also learn Bulgarian?
>> Mary DuPont: Not as much.
She did -- it was
harder, obviously.
>> Yes.
>> Mary DuPont: And in Denmark
she studied every morning
for an hour.
In Bulgaria I believe she
mastered pleasant phrases.
She always had an
interpreter with her.
So it got a little
better as she was there,
but certainly not fluent.
Yep. Yeah?
>> What was the relationship
with her husband,
you had mentioned
earlier in terms
of him being the
accompanying spouse?
>> Mary DuPont: Complicated.
John was an artist
and a photographer
and he did not have
a career of his own.
He had inherited money, so
he was able to accompany her
on all of her travels.
He was extremely supportive of
her career and very likeminded
when it came to the philosophy
of politics and male or female.
Personally it was not a
whole different story,
but as everyone knows, you know,
a marriage is not what
you see to the press.
So they had a lot
of disagreements
between them on day
to day things.
But he was probably one
of the reasons she could do
the work she did at the time,
because before her all women in
chief top positions were widows
or at least -- if
they had children,
they were grown and gone.
There might have been
a respectable divorce
in there, I can't remember.
But nobody had a spouse.
So the reverse roles they
had to play, I think of it
when I watch The Crown, with
Prince Philip, certainly not
that grand, but it was hard.
And there's a lot
about it in the book.
Yes?
>> Is the young man your father?
>> Mary DuPont: Yes.
So, in the beginning in Denmark
he was 11, he's the little guy
in the argyle socks, and by the
end he's the tall one at 15.
>> How did the children
fair in that --
growing up in these
ways [inaudible]?
>> Mary DuPont: Again,
complicated.
Many good things came of it,
but the process was tough.
Yep. Yes?
>> did Copenhagen have
an international school
in those days so they
could go in English?
>> Mary DuPont: It
did and that's
where they had planned
to send the kids.
I think they lasted a week.
It was very badly run at
the time and very elitist
and the kids were miserable.
They were used to public
school in small town Minnesota.
So right away they transferred
them to public schools,
where they had all
Danish friends
and gradually became very
fluent in the language.
And they thrived at the
public Danish schools.
>> Mary DuPont: Yeah?
>> Your video is priceless.
>> Mary DuPont: Yes, it is.
>> I mean, it really is, so I
hope you enable to share it.
>> Mary DuPont: It's
a long story.
It's -- these are original
movies that my grandfather took.
These are original movies that
my grandfather took and --
now this is like fourth
generation copy, copy, copy,
so it's not great quality
that you're looking at.
The original films
are unbelievable
and they have been digitalized,
but it's still an ongoing
conversation with my family
about what to do with them.
So, no, this -- I mean,
this will be recorded just
for the talk, but it won't
be distributed anywhere
at this time.
I'm -- we're all looking
into -- there's so much.
There are hours more of
other countries and places
and it's just -- it's stunning.
Yeah. And still photography too.
Yeah?
>> Did she talk to you about any
of her experiences
or [inaudible]?
>> Mary DuPont: I wish
there had been more.
I was about 18 to
20 when she started
to really lose her memory
and her good health.
So, right at the time when I
was getting the most interested
and would have said,
"Oh my gosh,
tell me everything,"
she was not able to.
So my relationship with her
was very much grandmother.
Yeah. But I was lucky.
She died when I was 30, so
it was a long relationship.
Yeah. Yeah?
>> I know you mentioned
she signed a treaty really
to Greenland, I think.
>> Mary DuPont: Yes.
>> Did she also travel to
Greenland and the [inaudible]?
>> Mary DuPont: I
don't think so.
Boy, she traveled a lot,
but -- and I could be wrong,
she may have gone there...
>> They're part of the
kingdom of Denmark.
>> Mary DuPont: Oh yes.
I'm just -- I'm ticking
through the timeline
and she traveled
extensively around Denmark.
I'm not sure if they
had an official trip
to Greenland or not.
>> Thank you.
She's clearly so brave.
I mean, you can't watch this
and not come of [inaudible]
and see all of these places
that she lived and one thing
that struck me, even
just seeing the airplanes
and -- it's not like today.
It's --
>> Mary DuPont: Like cutting
out a hole in a tin can.
>> Yeah. Is there
anything in her writings
about any trepidation about
that or were there any incidents
or how did she [inaudible]?
>> Mary DuPont: Lots.
She handled it terrific.
I think she was a very good
traveler with a strong stomach.
There was one story about --
she was going on a study tour
of Vietnam for President Johnson
and the plane was leaving
somewhere and after an hour
in the air the -- two of the
engines caught fire and they had
to make an emergency landing in
Siberia and then be transferred
onto a cargo plane to
continue to Vietnam.
I'm probably messing
up the fine details,
but things like that happened.
And once when she was getting
off a plane in Africa for work
on a committee for the United
Nations there was a huge protest
going on at the time.
Rooted in the Soviet
American conflict.
And they were -- stuff was
thrown at them and got spit on
and it was -- there were a
lot of really tough moments.
Probably more than I know about.
Yeah?
>> Can you talk about the
process of researching the book?
>> Mary DuPont: Um, yes.
So, a few years ago I
turned 50 and I said, "Okay,
get off your butt and do
something about this."
I'd always wanted to look
more into Eugenie's career.
So, several different areas of
resources had to come together,
because I didn't want to
write a dry academic book.
My talk is actually more
factual than the book is.
I mean, not to say
that it's a biography,
it's accurate, trust me.
But I wanted the book to
read more as her story,
because I really felt
that was the best part.
So researching it involved
using her official papers,
which are housed
at the Minnesota
Historical Society Library,
and fortunately I
live in St. Paul,
so I could just drive
five minutes over.
But I spent a long time
going through those boxes,
photocopying, photographing
and drawing in all
of the things I thought
might be pertinent.
So that was a lot of time.
Then I drove to my
parent's house
and brought home boxes
of personal letters.
The things in my family
that would not have been
housed anywhere else.
A lot of photographs, a lot
of letters, correspondence.
Online research involved
newspapers,
searching by all kinds of
different key words and pulling
in all of the articles I could
find in the press about her.
I didn't manage to
get Danish press,
because I tried a few avenues
of contacting newspapers
in Denmark, I was so busy
with other things I didn't
follow through on it.
So, fortunately in the
History Center there were a lot
of copies and original
clippings from Danish papers.
Let's see, so, personal,
archives, newspapers, books.
I read about 35 books, because
I needed to brush up completely
on my mid-20th century history.
Especially Minnesota
history with her --
the development of
her friendship
and work with Hubert Humphrey.
There's so much more that
I didn't talk about today.
So, that's kind of
the umbrella of it.
Was that your question?
>> Sure.
>> Mary DuPont: Okay.
Yeah.
>> The accounts were
well documented.
>> Mary DuPont: Yeah?
>> Just to comment, I feel
like the film you could
really see her charisma
and her ease with people.
>> Mary DuPont: Yes.
>> Her personality
comes through so well.
>> Mary DuPont: And it was
not different in private.
No. She could be strict.
She could say, "You can't
sit down for the meal
until you go brush your hair."
But, as far as her natural
warmth and quick, you know,
quickly picking up
on some what --
the person with her really
wanted to know, she was.
Yeah. Yes?
>> I liked her approach
to her work and her --
although she was a role bending
person, she was going to areas
that had not been reached
before by women, I like the fact
that she didn't think of
herself only as a woman,
but as a professional who
was taking her talents
to whatever way that
she was serving.
And that was a very -- very
impressive for her time,
since she was so
early in this game.
>> Mary DuPont: Well, and
it was very important to her
to make sure that
whoever she was talking
to did not attach a
label of feminist to her.
She didn't want that label,
because she knew it
would exclude her
from certain areas at that time.
So she was really smart
about -- even if she had --
I know she did -- if she had
ideas about women's rights
and where the work could be done
and how much progress needed
to be made, it was not at the
top of her conversation list,
because those things would
diminish her dignity in front
of other people who were
more ignorant about it.
>> So what -- I guess my other
question that it lead me to is,
although we heard you give
examples of her responses
to rather impudent -- what's
the word I want, imprudent.
>> Mary DuPont: Impertinent.
>> Impertinent, that's the
word I was looking for.
Comments that were
made in a public way,
do you think she would say
if she was sitting
here we could ask her
and she could take off her
official mantel, would she say
that in general she did
not feel on a day to day --
whether in Denmark or
Bulgaria or wherever,
that she was being put in a
box because she was a woman
or would she say, oh, there
were plenty of examples, I just,
you know, let them go?
Of people treating
her differently
because she was a woman?
>> Mary DuPont: The layer
of protection she gave
herself was very thick.
And, so, because she has not
experienced American history
in the last 20 years it's so
hard for me to answer that.
Because she had conditioned
herself so deeply
to avoid discussions
of women's rights.
It started to leak
out in the 1970s.
She would say, you know, that
women are valuable and need
to be -- and she always
said that all along.
But she had such a passion for
defending global human rights
and civic rights that
she tried to keep women
out of the conversation
at the time.
Yeah?
>> Kind of along similar lines.
So, for diplomats who were
working at the state department
who weren't presidentially
appointed, there were women,
they weren't allowed to
be married until 1971.
>> Mary DuPont: Right.
>> And so there was a huge
debate in the state department
in the late '60s, was she,
like, dragged into that
at all, how did she navigate?
>> Mary DuPont: I
think -- let's see.
Obviously she was a political
appointee in 1949 for Truman.
At that time Bess Truman
was very much involved
in her husband's decisions.
And Bess Truman and India
Edwards, who was the head
of the democratic national
committee, vice chair,
Bess and India wanted to get
women into top positions.
So they convinced
Harry Truman to do it
because he was spouting
civil rights.
They said, well, this
has to accompany it.
So in that sense
the beauty of it was
that Eugenie was not
just a good figure head,
she really knew her stuff
and she was good at the job.
So, they were lucky
that they had her.
And I don't -- it was more
of a positive publicity spin
that she had -- and
it didn't hurt
that her husband
was really handsome.
Tall, good looking, he
hated speaking in public,
but he looked good and the
kids were charming and sweet.
So, I think they
managed it really well.
In Bulgaria John was with her
as well, but the kids were grown
and back in the US with their
own families and she was more
of a grandmother type.
So I think there wasn't
too much pressure on --
what's the word I want --
rationalizing having
that spouse.
So I'm not really
answering your question,
but I know that in her
case it was always seen
as a good exception, versus
taking away from her work.
Yeah?
>> Since the publication of your
book, have people sort of come
out of the woods
that you didn't know,
either professionals she
interacted with here or verbally
or in Minnesota where
both stories?
>> Mary DuPont: It's
almost the opposite.
It's so disappointing,
because she was born in 1909
and there are very few peers
of her that are still around.
I had trouble finding people
to interview personally.
There were some people who
were much younger than her.
In Minnesota, I will --
especially near her hometown,
there are plenty of
people who say, "Oh,
I remember her, she
was wonderful."
And she's very well
known in Minnesota,
but not nationally yet, I hope.
Yeah.
Yes?
>> She worked for several
different presidents,
it sounds like, in different
roles and, of course,
then several different
secretaries of state,
did she happen to have any --
provide any comments about her
feelings about any of them?
>> Mary DuPont: She was
really careful about that.
There's nothing about
that in, like,
in the History Center there
are lengthy oral interviews
that were done in 1971
and they're actually
available online,
you can get the transcriptions
for free.
Anything public absolutely not.
It was all just praise
and diplomatic statements
about their relationships.
In the personal letters
there's a lot of great stuff
and I can't think of it
off the top of my head,
but I love reading the personal
letters between her and my dad.
Oh, she really hated
Barry Goldwater.
And I could, you know,
name off a few others.
So, anyway, yes.
But I -- knowing Eugenie and --
I'm sure I did write
certain things
that she would not
be happy about.
Things that she would not
have chosen to write herself.
My excuse was that if
Eleanor Roosevelt could do it,
maybe I can too.
To talk about real life.
But, no, Eugenie was
perhaps too cautious
about not bad mouthing anyone.
It was another tactic to
stay in a job as a woman.
Enough? Yeah.
Great.
>> Thank you so much.
[ Applause ]