[ Music ] >> Jane Sanchez: Hello, my name is Jane Sanchez. I have the honor of serving as the 25th Law Librarian of Congress. Today I'm excited to have a conversation with our ABA President, who selects our Law Day theme, which this year is Your Vote, Your Voice, Our Democracy, inspired by the centennial of the 19th Amendment and women's voting rights. Why was it so important for you to focus on this historical movement? >> Judy Perry Martinez: Well, you know, out of each and every movement, Jane, comes lessons, and the ones out of the suffrage movement were spectacular in not only what it did for our country at that moment, but also, what they tell us about what more we need to do today. So, having that moment of Law Day to celebrate the courage of the suffragists, but also to be able to learn from them and apply those lessons to the challenges we face for voting rights and voting registration and so much more in our democracy was something we couldn't pass up. And the American Bar Association has long been about civics education. And so, we thought this was the perfect time to really bring focus to that. >> Jane Sanchez: That's great. Thank you. What has struck you most about the efforts of women who led or participated in the movement? What lessons should we take from the suffrage movement? >> Judy Perry Martinez: Sheer grit. Determination. The courage to bring forth what they knew was right. The notion that even if they hit hurdles, they would pick themselves up with a sense of resilience and commitment to their goal. And remember, that their goal ended up meaning that it was what they accomplished was the largest expansion of democracy in the history of our country. So, you take that moment and have your breath taken away by what they were able to do, you know that there are no battles, no rights too far away from our reach, that we can't go after in terms of accomplishing what needs to be accomplished, for not only equality in our country, but for equal justice under all. >> Jane Sanchez: And boy were they persistent, right? How many years was it? Seventy? Ninety years? >> Judy Perry Martinez: You know, by different counts of different efforts, and you know, it's important to remember that their battle, their collaboration among themselves, was not always perfect, and sometimes it suffered from things we see today, like racism. Like fear of being called out or stigmatized because they were taking on these battles, but they didn't let their voice be silenced, and they worked together. The leveraged opportunities where appropriate, and what they did was really show us that when something's that important, where there's a commitment to assuring not only for yourselves but for all those whom you care about, and that was not only women. That was for the people of our nation. To take that on and to go forward with that fight is, again, something that shouldn't be history that's lost. [ Music ] >> Janice Ruth: Shall Not be Denied. So, it's the actual wording for me in itself, and the subtitle we used, Women Fight for the Vote. It is expressing a key concept that we wanted people to leave here with. Not that women were given, or granted, the right to vote. We all can see that. But no, they had to fight for it, and nobody leaves this exhibit without a better understanding of just how hard that fight was. So, we are trying to make clear that 1920 was an incredibly important moment where the franchise was extended for many women, but there were still challenges afterwards. >> Judy Perry Martinez: Yeah, I think telling the story accurately is as important as telling the story, and I know this exhibit does that. So, it brings us all great pride. >> Jane Sanchez: One of the more significant parades that happened in the suffrage movement was that first national parade that happened in Washington DC on the eve of Woodrow Wilson's inauguration. But this is a graphic showing how women lined up for that parade. >> Janice Ruth: And I think you'll enjoy looking at just how closely in line the librarians and the lawyers were. >> Jane Sanchez: The lawyers and librarians, very good, next to the band. >> Janice Ruth: That's right. >> Judy Perry Martinez: And I must tell you, as someone born and raised in New Orleans, I know all about parades, and this is like a very impactful one. It looks like a very powerful one. >> Jane Sanchez: It was. >> Janice Ruth: There was much like other episodes throughout the movement. There was some tension. It was fraught in terms of how much African American women would be encouraged to participate or not. And that's a story that we talk about in the exhibit, as well. But this people like because they sort of see how each group lined up their group. Multiple floats, many bands. It was quite the spectacle. It's most known, in some ways, though, for what happened afterwards. As the women began to march and start a route, it started out very, very nice. Everybody was -- the mood was good, but as they advanced down the parade route, the crowd started encroaching on the women in the parade, and they jostling women and pushing them, knocking some of them to the ground. Many of the women needed to seek medical attention. Basically, a cavalry unit had to be summoned to restore order and push the crowd -- >> Judy Perry Martinez: The crowd back. >> Janice Ruth: Yes, exactly. It brought more attention, though, than it would've otherwise. There were indignation meetings held all over the country as to how these women had been treated in the nation's capital. The police Commissioner came under investigation, lost his job over it. There was congressional hearings. So, even though the women themselves, at the time, were very disappointed that this happened, and many of them, of course, were injured or certainly shaken up by it, it created a lot of publicity. That was something that Alice Paul and others in the movement were very good at gibbering. >> Judy Perry Martinez: Well, you know, it's interesting, because I think this tells a story of the greater democracy in our country, about how we've also, over the course of time, used peaceful protest and gatherings and bringing together communities, in order to lift our voices together. As effectively as it can be done by one, it's so much more powerful and sustaining when it's a community that does this, and these women were in community. And the stories have been told, rightly so, about those who were wrongfully excluded. But at the same time, what we know from those lessons is that there are such important tools that we, as lawyers, particularly, use in the courtroom, to advance the rights that we think are critical. But those are even more, I think, effective when they also have the people's voice. They express, whether as citizens to the members of Congress, or in this type of activity, where they are peacefully demonstrating and having their voices lifted. >> Jane Sanchez: There's so much enthusiasm around this theme from bar members across the US, with state and local bar associations and other organizations from the 50 states showcasing the 19th Amendment, as you know. Tell us about the traveling exhibit. >> Judy Perry Martinez: So, the American Bar Association is full in on this opportunity, and what we have done is create a commission on the 19th Amendment, which is chaired by Honorable Margaret McEwen of the US Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and is constituted with individuals, male and female, who care about these issues of both bringing forth and forward the legacy of the suffragists, but also, making sure, as I said before, that we learn from their lessons. The traveling exhibit is something that has been a wonderful collaboration with the Law Library of Congress, and through our standing committee on the Law Library of Congress, I believe the second-oldest committee of the American Bar Association, that has long in partnership done some terrific projects with your law library. That exhibit is now in every state, and we are so proud of the fact that over 125 venues will carry the exhibits. Some of the Supreme Court's, the state Supreme Court's, have actually purchased the exhibit, so that it can be toured across and around their court systems throughout a particular state. I can tell you that I am visiting lots of law schools across the country. I'm going to numerous Bar Association events, and when I walk in and see that exhibit and see how many people it's touching, how many people are getting to see the content, I really know that we've taken up fully this opportunity for civics education. >> Jane Sanchez: That's wonderful. In February, the Washington Post reported that the top 16 law school journal editors are now all women. So, strides are being made in making law school more inclusive for women, but women are still only about 20% of the equity partners at law firms. How do you think law firms can adapt to make the practice of law more attractive for women and provide more partnership opportunities for women? >> Judy Perry Martinez: Well, there's so many ways to approach that question. It's complex. >> Jane Sanchez: It's a big one. >> Judy Perry Martinez: I can tell you, I was a part of that wonderful celebration of the editors-in-chief, and it was a time that we should celebrate, because it hasn't happened before. And it's really telling about the movement that's going on and how women are rising to the top and contributing so much to their law reviews, to their law schools, and to the legal profession. But the fact of the matter is that the numbers are not what they should be in any sense, in the engagement of women, the leadership positions that women are holding within law firms in many places, as well as in other places of employment, whether it's government or corporate life, are really not where they should be. And particularly, women of color have not been able to have the opportunities that they really need to be afforded, not only for them, not only for us as women, in general, but most importantly, for the individuals whom we serve, the public and our clients. What we know is that law firms are really hearing what we're saying. There's a recent report out of the ABA Commission on Women in the Profession called Walk Out the Door, that focuses on big law firms and talks about the issue. Perhaps some people would call it the crisis of women at the top of their careers leaving many of those big law firms. Exploring why they are doing so. Taking a survey and a pulse of not only the women and their attitudes and perspectives about the opportunities they may or may not have, the times that they are given chances for advancement. The opportunities they have and support they get from law firms with regard to the burdens they carry it home for family and childcare, and so much more. But the survey also, in the report, speaks to the perspectives of men in those firms, and you can really see a difference in perception between men and women. But most importantly, it gives concrete steps that law firms can take, in order to really retain this extraordinary talent for the benefit of their clients. And those recommendations include everything from putting in place the processes and procedures and an infrastructure to make sure that members of the firm, at all levels, including staff, importantly, understand that diversity is welcome, and inclusion is a way of life. To that second point, it's really about making sure that there is tone at the top that all human capital is valued, and all will be given the opportunity for the greatest growth and development. And thirdly, and most importantly, making sure that doors are open, so that when somebody sees something or has experienced something that is less than they expect should be the case, that they can walk in, talk about it, have somebody to sit down and say we're going to address this, and make sure that their questions are answered, and more importantly, that their voices are heard. >> Jane Sanchez: That's great. That's great. You know, I heard Nancy Pelosi the other day. She was asked about being the most powerful woman in the US, and she actually said, "I find that very sad that I am the most powerful woman in the Congress." She said, "I wish they were more women who were at my level and/or higher." And I thought that was so touching that she has such a perspective about who she is and where we still are as a nation. >> Judy Perry Martinez: Right. Well, I truly believe an approach to life and an approach to a professional career of no ladders up. >> Jane Sanchez: Right. >> Judy Perry Martinez: Which means that if you are a woman or a man or an individual who is one of our LGBTQ colleagues or a person of color, and you have made it to at least a place where you've had any level of success, any level of getting part of your dream fulfilled, that you have to take a no-ladders-up approach. And that means leaving no one behind. That means not leaving, and any sense, our multicultural sisters behind. Never leaving behind our colleagues with disabilities or different abilities, and always embracing and bringing forward with sauce our LGBTQ colleagues. And it is when we bring all that talent and commitment to the table that we, as a profession, will really achieve what we want to achieve, in terms of service to our clients and the public. >> Jane Sanchez: Do you know how many women marched? >> Janice Ruth: Again, yeah, we know that protests are always controversial, the counting of them. Anywhere from 5,000 to 8,000 women. >> Jane Sanchez: Wow! Wow! >> Janice Ruth: It was a big turn out for 1913. >> Judy Perry Martinez: And I think importantly it's not only what they did on that certain day. It's the stories that they went back and told in their own towns and villages and communities and cities. It's what they told their daughters and their sons about what this meant to them to be a part of this. It's about what they told their politicians about what they needed to pay attention to, because women were coming together for something really big and important to our democracy. So, the start of the march is always exciting, and the march itself, but it's really more about what happens post-march, to your point earlier. >> Janice Ruth: Exactly. Exactly, and that's one of the things that also comes out in this display is that women could unite for a single purpose. But their reasons were different, and they would come together, and then, they would break apart over disagreements on strategy or tactics. I mean, there were many women that thought suffrage should be achieved at the state level. And there were some longtime suffragists, particularly from the South, that, actually, at the very end opposed ratification of the 19th Amendment, because they saw that as an affront to states' rights, even though they had devoted much of their lives to fighting for -- >> Jane Sanchez: For the right to vote. >> Janice Ruth: Right, exactly. Exactly. So, it's a very complicated, you know, movement. And so, it was kind of -- I think that was one of the things that was so challenging about this exhibit was to try to give as sweeping overview of it as possible, but be sure to touch on some of the -- both the personalities, the personal stories, but also some of the setbacks and the challenges. Kind of the continuation of the fight. >> Jane Sanchez: To tell the real story. >> Judy Perry Martinez: Right, to tell the real story. >> Jane Sanchez: That's right. >> Judy Perry Martinez: No, and that's why the American Bar Association and our standing committee in the Law Library of Congress is so excited about this partnership, this collaboration, because you have the facts for us to be able to help tell the story in classrooms and in community squares and in public libraries across the country, as lawyers can do and others who join us. >> Janice Ruth: Right. >> Jane Sanchez: If you had to choose just one thing to accomplish during your tenure, which I'm sure you have, as President of the American Bar Association, what would that be? >> Judy Perry Martinez: You know, I think as lawyers, we are public citizens, as the Model Rules of Professional Conduct tell us, and because of that role as public citizens, we have so much more of a greater duty than only the important duty of serving our clients on a regular basis and daily basis. So, in that role of public citizen, I think what it calls upon us to do is to educate our profession, in terms of how they can be better through competency and greater skills building, as well as ethics and so much more. Looking at innovations. How we can take upon reforms, regulatory or otherwise, that, in fact, will help in the delivery of services to clients. But I also think it means educating the public. And it this moment in time, I can think of no greater contribution for lawyers to make to the public, to our nation and well beyond, than to help the public understand their role in our democracy. Help them understand the importance of learning and civics education as a lifelong journey. Helping young people in schools understand about the values that we have in this nation, of the role of citizens and so many more in bringing forth the best of our nation. And, frankly, as Chief Justice Roberts just talked about in his annual report on the State of the Federal Judiciary, taking an active role in civics education, so that we can really stress the importance of judicial independence. We can talk about due process. We can talk about the roles of the three co-equal branches of government, and do so much more to support our democracy. >> Jane Sanchez: You know, related to that, recently, we had the Supreme Court fellows. They have a celebration at the end of each year, and associate Justice Gorsuch announced in his conversation, that more people know the three names of the Three Stooges then the three branches of government in the US. How sad is that? >> Judy Perry Martinez: Well, the American Bar Association will release this spring, around Law Day, which is May 1, its Second Annual American Civics Survey. Last year, it gave us quite similar data on what people didn't know. For instance, not understanding that noncitizens who are in this country have rights of freedom of speech. Not necessarily knowing any of -- the Chief Justice or any of the other names, so many people. And also, just not understanding fully their roles in our democracy, as I said before. That survey and that report is a tool that we hope will spur conversations in schools, in community centers, in public libraries, and in coffee shops, and most importantly, around dinner tables across the country. So that there will be a greater understanding of the roles that we each play in our country. [ Music ]