>> Hi, everyone, I'm [inaudible] in
the learning and innovation office.
Welcome to todays online office
hours from the Library of Congress.
And today we're going to be exploring the Omar
Ibn Said collection at the Library of Congress.
And we're really glad that
you can join us today.
Just so you know, this event will
be recorded, and any questions
or other participant contributions
may be made publicly available
as part of the library's archives.
We're so glad that you can join us
either live today or by recording.
This is your first time joining us, welcome.
And if you're back, again, welcome back.
These office hours are meant
to be short and informal.
So we're going to get started
with that 20 minute presentation.
And we'll follow that up with Q&A conversation,
anything you'd like to discuss
based on our topic today.
You'll also have the opportunity to talk to
each other, and the presenter via the chat.
So let's just get started with the chat.
If you could just tell us your first
name, where you're joining us from,
and the grade level and subjects that you teach.
That would be helpful to know who's here.
Like I mentioned, today, our focus is on
the Omar Ibn Said collection at the Library
of Congress, and we're joined by Laverne
Paige, she is the area specialist
in the African section of the
African and Middle Eastern Division.
And if you have any questions
or comments for her,
please feel free to pop them into the chat box.
And she'll be able to address
them during the Q&A period.
We'll also be posting links as
Laverne's speaking, and, you know,
the team from learning innovation office
or I can address those or post them
to Laverne at the -- at the end during Q&A.
So with that, I'm going to
pass things over to Laverne.
>> Thank you, Kalena [assumed spelling].
Hello, everyone.
I hope that all of you are well today.
Again, my name is Laverne Paige and I will speak
to you today about the Omar Ibn Said collection,
which my division acquired in 2014.
You won't know offhand how to access this.
So I thought I would start
with a slide of the homepage
of the African and Middle Eastern Division.
And this page has lots of information
such as contact information,
whom to contact in the division,
in my section about things.
And we have items of special
interest listed in the center.
And so that's where the Omar Ibn
Said collection is and again,
this is just an access point
for you to acquire it.
And then another access point would be
the homepage of the Library of Congress.
And currently, this is the page, you would
go to the search box, type in Omar Ibn Said,
and then you would arrive at
the site for the collection.
So this page gives you a summary, and
what's featured is the autobiography
of Omar Ibn Said, about which I will speak.
You click that, and then you see more about
the content of this 42 item collection.
And what's on the screen now is the cover
page for the Arabic language version.
And then also there's a translation
of the autobiography.
And on the next slide there would
be -- oh, actually, I'm wrong.
So now you will want to know
who is this Omar Ibn Said,
about which so much fuss has
been made at the library?
So I'll tell you a bit about him.
He was born in 1770.
And we have a portrait of
him here as an old man.
We also have a map so that you can see the
region that he came from in West Africa.
If you look more closely at the yellow portion,
it says Fula Turo [assumed spelling],
that's the area where he's from.
So he was born in 1770.
We know about him because of the autobiography.
It's a small autobiography, but it
really has a lot of information.
So we know that he started school when he
was six, that he studied for 24, 25 years,
that he traveled for his education.
We know that his father had at least two wives.
We know that his ethnic group is Fula.
We know that he spoke [inaudible],
and that he was captured and sold.
Before then he had many experiences,
he traveled to Mecca.
He was a merchant.
And when he was captured again
at the age of 37, that's a bit --
that's a bit old, I would have
thought, but there was a war.
So he was captured and sold and according
to the autobiography, he was on a big boat,
and it took six weeks to get
to the Port of Charleston.
Once he arrived there, he was sold to someone
who must have been a pretty awful person,
I suppose he wouldn't have had
to be that awful, but still,
he was sold to someone and he ran away from him.
He was captured and was put in jail
and he became a curiosity in jail.
He was there for 16 days.
He became a curiosity because he was scribbling
on the wall and -- and making odd -- odd images.
And it turns out that was Arabic.
He came to the attention of Jim Owens [assumed
spelling] whose brother later became the
governor of North Carolina.
His name was -- was Jonathan's apparently
life with the John Owens [assumed spelling].
Apparently life with the Owens
family was quite benevolent for Omar.
He was asked to -- to write
his story, which he did.
It was translated into English
about six years after that.
And it came to the attention of the
head of the -- I always get this wrong.
It's an ethnological -- was it American
Ethnological Association or society,
but it came to his attention, and this person's
name was Theodore Dwight [assumed spelling],
acquired more material about Omar, about
the era, about slavery, he acquired more,
and this is what comprises
this 42 item collection.
So the highlight of the collection
is this autobiography.
And it's really quite legible.
The Arabic as well as the English.
It's -- it starts -- the -- the --
the autobiography starts with a
verse from the Quran about ownership.
In the autobiography, he talks about religion.
He -- he talks about quite a
number of interesting things,
you will enjoy reading it, I think.
It's very short.
It's about 15 pages.
And you will enjoy reading
it and it's -- it's --
it's significant, I think for the library
to have acquired this -- this autobiography.
This document.
If you want to know what
else is in the collection,
you can click on the links
and you will see more items.
And then this summary again about the
collections and then you can continue
and learn more about the 42
items which -- which are there.
There is a significant amount of information.
And the library has scanned these,
digitized these and they are available
for you to use with your students.
We received quite a number of collection
-- of questions about the collection.
And so these are some of the questions.
What was the slave trade in Africa?
Where were the slaves transported from?
Do you have maps to show this?
Why did Omar Ibn Said write in Arabic?
What other languages did he speak?
Were there other Muslims who were slaves?
What are some of the resources for
the study of enslavement in America?
Did other slaves write down their stories?
Did their writing survive?
The topics that you might
be interested in that you --
you would explore with your students might be --
because of this collection
might be historical research
on the enslavement of peoples from Africa.
So also the history of Africa in
cultures, heritage tracing, genealogy,
and the pre colonization of Africa.
And I think this was quite important because
many people think that the life of Africa
or the importance of Africa might
have begun with the presence of,
the arrival of the British,
the French, and that's not so.
And so this collection, this autobiography,
obviously shows you that
this was a learned person.
And this blends into, bleeds into why this
is a significant collection for the library.
So it's -- it's a unique
collection of research value.
And it does add to the content of the story
of slavery and enslavement and we think
or know that it's the only
known autobiography to date
of an enslaved person that's written in Arabic.
If you are interested in
learning more about Omar Ibn Said
and the collection there are the expert
resources, which are listed in the --
for the digital collection, this
full day symposium, this podcast,
which is quite interesting, and the blog posts.
During this time of the corona
virus and many of us being --
many of us teleworking from our
homes, we don't have access to --
to print materials and to our collections
to show you maps and to show you documents.
And so these resources which are listed
here online, are very, very helpful.
So these expert resources, related
resources, and if you have any questions
about the collection about Omar, you can
always contact us on Ask a Librarian.
Let's see.
We could circle back to the African
and Middle Eastern Division homepage
and show you a very interesting resource.
Many reading rooms were asked at one time to --
to produce an illustrated
guide to their collections.
So for the African section, you
can access ours from this page.
You would go to -- you would
click on Illustrated Guide.
It would take you to this page that
has the three illustrated guides
for the other two sections in my division,
the Near East section and the Hebraic section.
So you click on the African section,
and you would arrive at this page.
And what we'll look at is the chapter for
African people's encounters with others.
I won't read this paragraph, but
it does -- I will say that --
that it speaks about the rich primary source
materials that we do have in the collections.
Very important items.
We have maps, we have visual images, and
you really should look -- look for them.
On this particular page, in color, there's -- to
the left there's the map of traveling to Mecca,
and it would have been across the
Sahara, it would have been on a camel.
And this -- this map I've
noticed is used quite extensively.
This illustrated guide was -- was done
probably in the 1990s and so with --
with the documents which are here
they -- they're known, they're used,
the library has copies we have
permission to, to use this particular map.
So this is quite interesting.
And when I mentioned the items that are in
the library's collections that relate to Omar,
I should also mention two digital
collections that we produced years ago.
We produced them because in the year 20 --
let's see 2002, a librarian from Timbuktu,
whose name is [assumed spelling], visited
Washington, he was a part of the --
the group from Mali, who
came here for the folklife --
the Smithsonian annual Folklife Festival.
And he had brought documents,
he had brought manuscripts.
So the library was apprised of this and he was
invited to come over and the library did work
on the manuscripts and also scanned them --
scanned them and produced a digital exhibit,
which was called Ancient from
the Desert Libraries of Timbuktu.
These manuscripts show just as Omar Ibn
Said's autobiography, that there were people
who were learned, who wrote, and he wrote --
they wrote in the script of the
day, which -- which was Arabic.
And these -- these manuscripts
have just a wealth of information.
And as the text here says that they --
these particular manuscripts dated
from the 16th to the 18th centuries.
So this was the first set the library
acquired and then the next set the --
the digital display was called
Islamic Manuscripts from Mali.
I say that the library acquired
them, actually, they did return --
these documents were returned to
Mali, but the library did scan them.
And for many years, we've had the
advantage of -- of looking at them.
These documents concern -- these manuscripts
concern topics like astronomy, commerce,
transportation, law, and they
show that the people of that era
and Omar Ibn Said was one of them.
This is his geographic area, that --
that Sahalian region, this is his area.
And so they were knowledgeable people.
They -- they were not the barbarians that --
that sometimes pre colonial life is portrayed.
And so this collection, I think, is --
is a wonderful adjunct or maybe
Omar's a wonderful -- oh, my screen.
I'm sorry, my screen went.
So I will -- I will -- I will just keep
talking and I will get my screen back.
I know that the slide following this
is a slide that shows the blog posts.
Two blog posts that were
produced by the Learning Center.
And they I think would be quite useful for
your students, because they're blog posts
that show the activities of -- of
students who were at the library,
and these students also presented at
the symposium that I mentioned earlier.
So I think since I can't see the slides anymore,
that I shouldn't just stop
and -- and come back to you.
>> That's [inaudible] because
that was your final slide.
So thank you for -- for remembering that and
thanks so much for for providing that context.
And we'll [inaudible] more familiar
with the Omar Ibn Said collection.
Thanks for providing more detail.
And for those of us for whom this collection
is totally new, thanks for that introduction.
If anyone out there has questions or comments,
please feel free to put them in the chat box.
We're monitoring the chat.
I've seen some -- there are
some comments so far.
I think someone has used the story
map and noticed that it was --
it was a great resource that's
been useful for them.
I saw that Mike -- [inaudible] on the
learning innovation team who wrote one
of the blog posts I learned, just
mentioned in the previous slide.
He's here.
So if anyone has questions about
that blog post or the other,
please feel free to ask about that.
Laverne I wondered if we could return
to the frequently asked questions slide.
>> Yes.
>> Because I think that some of
the questions are definitely ones
that I know I have, that others might have.
So if you could just say a little bit more
about why -- why Omar Ibn Said wrote in Arabic,
other languages that he may have spoken, and
that sort of thing, and then I'll follow up --
I'll find more of the questions
in the chat as you're talking.
>> Well, we know that his ethnic group was Fula.
And there are variant names for -- for
Fula people and we think that his --
his mother language was Peul, P-E-U-L.
He would have written in Arabic because
that would have been the script of the day.
Definitely for learned people.
They -- these were people who studied the Quran,
these were people who could read the Quran,
and therefore they could speak Arabic.
And when -- when you're speaking, I think about,
you know, something important, like a book,
you would have been -- it
would have been in Arabic.
And so again, that would have been
the script that he would have known.
I'm a bit amazed that during the time when it
would have been illegal for someone to know how
to read and write, that he
was allowed to read and write.
So I find that quite significant
with the -- the autobiography.
But he was asked to do it,
obviously had permission to do it,
and so by then it seems he had
learned to write in English.
So this is what I think was -- was
happening with the Arabic script.
Why he wrote in Arabic.
>> Right. And thank you.
I'm just going to read out some of the
questions that have come through in the chat.
So someone's asked does the collection or the
autobiography itself include a description
of his [inaudible] that you know of?
>> I don't recall that.
He -- it's a compressed --
it's a compressed work.
It's -- it's 15 pages.
I'm sometimes surprised at
what it does not include.
He does not say anything I
think about his life in Africa.
Except he was six years old.
He must have said something
about his working life.
But -- but no, he doesn't say
anything about the [inaudible].
He does not.
He says that he travelled to Mecca.
But that's all he says.
>> Okay. You sort of alluded to this
in your response to the first question,
but Cheryl's [assumed spelling]
curious about what in the diary,
the autobiography has most
surprised or delighted you?
>> Well, frankly, I was surprised
by what appeared
to be a very long prayer at the beginning.
And I -- I was very curious about
this because I was thinking well,
yes and get on and get on and get on.
I think it surprised me that he talked
so favorably about his condition.
He speaks quite favorably about the family.
About the Owens family.
He provides the genealogy, he names them.
And I -- I just wondered why life seemed
to have been so benevolent for him.
He mentions that he's -- he's a frail person.
So I thought well, he is not accustomed or had
not been accustomed to doing any hard work.
So, with that being the case, how could he
have survived that -- that middle passage?
There were things that he said
which made me hop around in my mind
and just wonder about other things.
But I think that I was surprised at the
attention that he spent on the Owens family.
And I was surprised at his reticence to -- to
speak about his life, I think in -- in Africa.
I did wonder, because it
says he was asked to write,
I did wonder if he was asked
to speak about certain topics.
I -- I can understand, oh, staying on the good
side of people by saying positive things --
writing positive things about them.
I think I was pleased that this --
this narrative exists to hear from
someone directly their thoughts,
especially when we're not supposed
to have heard their thoughts.
I thought that was -- was significant.
I would like to read it again, just as
I'm told by scholars or I read something
that one scholar said about translations, you
don't just rest with a single translation you --
you want people to -- to look at the work
and the translation from Arabic into English.
She was speaking of you want people to
look and to provide another translation.
And I would look forward to that.
Hearing what others might say.
You know, there may be a term that might
have two meanings or a certain sentiment
that could be interpreted one way or the other.
I'm told that Arabic is a very poetic
language or written, it's poetic.
And so I'm wondering what
quality that lends to his story.
I just found it fascinating.
Just found it fascinating.
>> I think the language -- I agree the
language and the sort of art and science
of the translation is really interesting.
I'm going to address the next question about
the 42 items or 42 documents in the collection.
So the question is, the website
states that there are 42 documents
in the collection including correspondence from
and to Liberia, and even an account for Panama,
where can we find them specifically?
Are they translated into English from Arabic.
So those -- those items are available
on the Omar Ibn Said collection digital
collection page, so that was linked
up above, we can post that link again.
And as far as I know, there --
while there are some items that are
in Arabic, not all the items are in Arabic.
So there is a mix of -- of
Arabic and English items.
And -- and Laverne you can please
correct me but as far as I know,
the only item that is translated from
Arabic into English is the autobiography.
Is that correct?
>> To my knowledge -- to my
knowledge, that's the only one, yes.
I find --
>> You can get to the items [inaudible].
>> Pardon?
>> No, go ahead.
>> No, I didn't hear your -- your question.
>> Oh no, I wasn't asking anything.
Go ahead.
>> Oh, I was just thinking there was
-- I think there's a letter from --
from the president of Liberia, Roberts [assumed
spelling], President Roberts and I just found
that astounding and wondered -- I just --
I'm just curious, you know about
how some of the items were acquired.
Theodore Dwight [assumed spelling], who
was head of that ethnological society,
collected the material, he appeared to
have an interest in anti slavery efforts,
and I therefore wondered how he had become
acquainted with -- with a slave, with Omar.
There's so many gaps there.
There -- there -- there's so many more
things, I think, to the story that --
that I would -- that I would like to know about.
So to have something from the future
president of Liberia, I just --
I just thought this was just very interesting.
So the collection itself,
this accumulation of material
that became the Omar Ibn Said
collection, so it was acquired by Dwight.
And then it -- it went through several
hands over the next hundred or so years,
and eventually ended up with
Derek Beard [assumed spelling],
who I think acquired it around 1996.
And then he came to the library for
a conference and that's when people
in the African section became
acquainted with him and therefore,
his collection and -- and the autobiography.
And so I guess that's really
what -- what kicked off interest.
And he did remain in contract with
the African section over the years.
So I might have answered several questions
at one time, unasked questions, even.
>> You definitely addressed a couple at a time.
So that's -- that is -- that is great.
I want to go to Amara's [assumed spelling]
question, she's asking about the --
the two exhibits that you mentioned
toward the end of your presentation,
and she asks if you could provide
more information about the astronomy
that you mentioned to those collections,
she teaches K-5 STEM and would like to bring
in historical documents into her classroom.
So could you say more about
the astronomy of that?
>> Well, I can't speak about any
one manuscript in that collection.
I don't read Arabic.
And periodically I look through the two
digital displays for one reason or the other.
It could be curiosity.
It could be somewhat -- any
way it could be anything.
As a reference librarian, you get a question,
and it just might go off in
many different directions.
My suggestion would be to --
to look at those two displays.
One has 30 something items in it, and
the other might have a similar number.
They're not very, very long.
And there would be a summary
of what the document is.
And it's full text.
So if it's 10 pages, all 10 pages would be
provided for you or if it's just one page.
It -- it's -- it's there.
So I would, I would just go through
that collection and look at the summary.
And then if you -- if you speak Arabic,
then you would immediately be able
to understand the content I think.
So I think -- oh, and the other thing to point
out about language is that there are times
when an African language would be
written using the Arabic script.
And so just because you speak Arabic, you
look at it, and it wouldn't make any sense
because it's not the Arabic language.
It's the African language like
Peul or, or Hausa, or Wolof.
So it would be the African
language, but you use again,
the script of the day, and
that would have been Arabic.
And there's a special name for that.
I believe it's [inaudible].
I never pronounce that correct -- [inaudible]
but that's -- that's what that means.
And then that's also something
that's a bit surprising.
It says also that Africans were literate.
>> Right? Can you say a little bit more?
So Mike has a question.
He says, fascinating overview.
And he says it seems like Theodore Dwight
and others went to a lot of effort to acquire
and translate Omar's autobiography.
What do you know about the
Dwight's motivations in doing so?
>> I just know that he was interested in
cultures and was an anti slavery advocate.
So that's pretty much all I know about him.
And I'm sure that because of his work,
there would be a lot more written
about him, but I haven't read it.
I'm sorry.
>> That's fine.
I'm also -- on that digital collection page
there is a bit about, about [inaudible] and also
for teachers out there, please
do check out those blog posts.
We talked a little bit about
Dwight in -- in those.
I have a question that just came directly to me.
It was, what was the -- if you know, what
was the catalyst to the library choosing
to digitize this particular collection?
I have -- I have a sense of that too.
But yes, can you talk a little bit about
why you think the library chose to?
I think you alluded to this in your
why is this a unique collection
for the Library of Congress, but --
>> [Inaudible] collection needing
preservation, the other Arabic language material
from from Africa had been digitized before
digitization had become so widely popular,
I think this is the -- the trend of
the library to -- to engage in --
in preservation of this nature and it -- it
was such a unique item or is such a unique item
to acquire, and -- and therefore,
the other items with them.
I -- I -- I just think that it
was just seen as a burning need.
I'm very happy about it, I think about some
collections -- again my screen has gone again --
I think about some collections which -- which
-- which have not been preserved in time.
They -- they're not in the United States.
they may be elsewhere, such as in parts of the
African continent they have not been preserved
and in -- and scanned and therefore something
may have happened and then they were lost.
There were documents which were lost in that
city of Timbuktu due to civil strife, arson,
because -- because of -- of
war, and you don't want that.
So that's not the same as
the situation here at LC.
But I think that we're just all
concerned about this material,
having a long life being accessible to the
public, and this is -- is the way to do it.
I hope I answered that.
>> I think so.
Yeah. Thank you for addressing that.
And I would definitely encourage all
of you who haven't read them to --
to look at those expert resources,
particularly the --
the podcast and the blog posts that are not
only about the autobiography, and the content,
but also the preservation initiative around
this collection and just sort of the --
the sort of work and energy that went into
preserving this to make sure that it is,
you know, available for a lifetime.
On the topic of blog posts, Mike asked me to --
to say a little bit about the
documentary projects that --
that we alluded to in that
screen cap of the blog post.
And I'm happy to do that.
So those I believe, early --
late 2018, early 2019 our team
and learning innovation office worked
with two local -- this is D.C. --
D.C. local high schools to use media
studies and film studies classes.
And at that time, we had
through the process of digitizing
and making available the Omar Ibn Said
collection on the library's website,
and really unveiling it to the public and they
asked the students to come to the library,
talk to sub-specialist curators, the
conservator, [inaudible] staff to learn more
about the collection, and
document it in short videos.
And the videos that they ultimately
created are shown at the symposium
that Laverne spoke about earlier.
But really, I think that the biggest takeaway,
and I think the biggest value was really just
getting the students hands on experience and,
you know, many of them are interested in
media careers or film careers, cinema careers,
but also giving them a hands on
experience with -- with history --
history that many of them are not very familiar
with and giving them an opportunity to kind
of penetrate the wall of the Library of Congress
and I think many of them were really shocked
by the story of Omar Ibn Said and kind of
remarked on how little they knew or had learned
about American slavery from their
textbooks, for example, and how this --
this new way, this sort of primary of access
allowed them to broaden their view and sort
of complicate their view, I guess,
of [inaudible] had been taught and --
and had learned about and just
got them to see more of the nuance
and I think more of the fuller picture of it.
And yeah, you're right, I think it
disrupted the narrative they had learned.
>> Well, I was there that day.
I was there for the symposium
and there were so many things
that I thought was just truly exciting.
It was -- it was a fantastic day, so many
things I thought were just sort of thrown at us.
You had the scholars, you had the students.
You -- you -- you had this account
from Marita Harper [assumed spelling],
for example about Derrick Beard and -- and these
dedicated collectors What drives you to it?
I just thought that it was such
a fascinating day because it --
it had so much, it linked so much,
and I was happy for the students
because I thought is this a
typical place for you to be?
And then everyone was so happy with their
work and I just -- I just thought this --
this is great for -- for them to be
applauded and for their work to be recognized.
And there was -- there were just so many
positive, interesting, exciting and I could go
on with -- with the adjectives
about -- about that particular date.
And I realized at the time that
the -- the chief that we had who --
who has since retired really had a remarkable
facility for pulling things together.
Or if she didn't do it, maybe
it was her presence.
But I just thought this is something -- this
is a learning experience on so many levels.
And I just appreciated that symposium
hearing from the digital team,
Sylvia Albro [assumed spelling], who
spoke about her work with preservation.
I don't think we often get
that, the cataloguing.
I don't think we often get that in one setting,
to hear from start to finish about a process.
We don't get that and I was just appreciative.
And -- and I was happy for the students and --
and happy to see what they had accomplished.
And therefore I could appreciate
your office too.
And what you know, [inaudible]
for education and for youth.
And again, that was a long winded, windy
way of saying I appreciate your office.
I appreciate what you do.
>> That was great, thank -- and yeah,
thank you and -- and just just before we --
we wrap up, I think it'd be really
helpful and really interesting Laverne
if you could do a little bit about your career
up until this point or your
journey to the library.
Just -- we know that you are
African Studies specialist.
Talk a little bit about how long you've been
at the library and your path to the library.
>> I think one reason I talk about seeing
the process from start to finish is
because I've been at the library
for a considerable period of time.
I've been there for decades, and
there are many instances where you --
you just see piecemeal and so
that start to finish and --
and to applaud was significant I thought.
So I've been at the library
for decades as I said.
I -- I started at the library in a part time
temporary position while I was finishing
up an MA in African Studies
from Howard University.
Because I liked what I was doing so well and
thought it was interesting I decided to go
to library school, and so I went to Columbia.
And when I finished there, this position opened
up in the African section, and so I -- I got it.
And so I've been there ever since.
And I've -- I've taken a leave of absence
from -- from time to time to do other things.
Such as I worked as a UN
volunteer in [inaudible].
So in the Sahale, in the area of
Mali and Senegal and traveled to --
to Timbuktu before the airport,
before it became popularized.
I went there on a tender on the Niger River.
And actually it was a -- it
was a German steamboat I think.
This is all tourism, this is all
the cheapest way you can travel.
It was -- it was that sort of thing.
So it was -- it was this boat that went
up to Niger and then you got off and --
and you took -- I think it was
a tender to go into Timbuktu
because it's not right on the river.
And we were actually headed to Mopti
in Mali, and couldn't get there
because the river was low,
so we stopped in Bondi Gara.
So it was exciting and interesting.
So I am interested in this --
this region of -- of Africa and --
and the region where Omar Ibn Said came from.
I won't go on and on and on.
But anyway, that's -- that's basic.
So that's how I got to the library.
And in -- and I like -- I like
working in the African section.
>> Great. Thank you so much Laverne.
This was a great introduction.
And thanks for offering additional resources to
help us get a fuller context of Omar Ibn Said
and the possible -- possible ideas
about the region that he came from.
And I know that I'll definitely
be exploring -- exploring more.
So thank you so much for being with us
today and sharing your expertise with us.
>> Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, goodbye.
>> And thank you everyone
for being with us today.
And next week, we'll be joined by
Michelle Crowl [assumed spelling]
and Josh Levy [assumed spelling] from the
manuscript division and they'll be talking
about STEM resources in the transcript division.
So please join us next week.
We'll be in the same place at the same time.
Thanks so much.