[ Music ]
>> Robert Casper:
Hello and welcome
to the National Book Festival.
My name is Rob Casper, from
the Library of Congress.
I'm here with Juan Felipe
Herrera and Robert Pinsky.
Whose featured books
at the festival are,
"Every Day We Get More Illegal."
And "At the Foundling Hospital."
If you would like
to see Juan Felipe
and Robert's presentations.
Log into
nationalbookfestival.com.
You'll find them both in
the Poetry and Prose Stage.
Welcome, Juan Felipe and Robert.
And good to have you both here
at the National Book
Festival virtually.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Thank you so much.
>> Robert Pinsky:
Pleasure to be here.
>> Robert Casper: I'm
thrilled to have you
as a terrific pairing
of poets laureate.
And my first question is,
have you ever done anything
under the title together?
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Under that title?
>> Robert Casper: Yeah.
Have you ever done a
reading or event as former
or current poets
laureate together?
Is this the first time?
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
This is the first time.
Isn't that right, Robert?
>> Robert Pinsky: First
time on any stage anywhere.
[ Laughter ]
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's it right there.
>> Robert Pinsky: We
had dinner together
in Palo Alto a couple
of years ago.
And I saw a kick ass, if I'm
allowed to use that expression,
reading, by Juan Felipe.
>> Robert Casper: Well, I'm
thrilled to have you both here.
To those of you in the audience,
please send in questions.
I will ask them of
our poets laureate.
And try to get to as many as
I can in the allotted time.
Maybe the two of you could talk
about your experiences
in the position?
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: You
know, I really think that,
you know, for except
when I mention Rob.
I think Robert has done
an amazing project.
Did an amazing project -- a
video project with poetry.
And young people and
people in general.
Talking about their
favorite poem.
I'm at least going to talk
about that and beyond.
I had a great time, you
know, being poet laureate.
And the projects
that we did together.
The Chicago Project with
40 school districts,
40 teachers, was incredible.
The workshops at the
Poetry Foundation
that were connected
to that project.
The Technicolor Adventures
of Catalina Neon.
Where second graders
submitted work to us
at the laureate office at
the Library of Congress.
And how I received those
materials for the creation
of that particular title.
And then I just sewed
together those -- their ideas.
And took off on that.
And then they would submit more
work for the second chapter.
And I really enjoyed the
second graders being part
of a National Project
and being writers.
And having such beautiful
exposure.
And seeing their work up on
the screen of their computers,
through the Library of Congress.
I enjoyed that democratic space.
And access that they had.
And the teachers and librarians.
And it was beautiful.
And they really took
it in many directions.
And I enjoyed the projects.
Bringing the two poets
that I met on the road.
You know, reading and presenting
throughout the nation.
And it was called
The Laureate Chicas.
I saw two very young, I think
a ten-year-old, 11-year-old
and a nine-year-old,
reading poetry.
And talking to me about poetry.
And I said, "What
poem are you writing?
You mentioned a poem to
Elena Marina, Elenita Marina
in San Diego, California."
And she said, "I
just wrote a poem
for my abuelito,
my grandfather."
And I go, "Well,
what was it about?"
"Well, it was about how
life -- how short life is.
And I wanted to honor him
with a poem in memory."
I said, "What a beautiful
concern you have
and putting them into a poem."
I said, "Oh, beautiful."
So, I came home with
that feeling
of her love and her compassion.
And of her wisdom.
And then I also met
Sylvia Gonzales
in Albuquerque, Mexico
-- New Mexico.
And she was just a power house.
Just standing up there
and loving poetry.
And the love of the artist.
And really very serious
about her poetry
and culture in general.
And then later I talked
to you about Casper
at the Library of Congress.
And I said, "You know, I
want to bring those two girls
with their families to
the Library of Congress
to present their poetry.
I mean, they're ready
to get up here."
And let us talk about Laureate
Chicas, also, young Latinas.
And promote their voices.
And their writing.
And their ideas about
literature.
And get them going.
So, when they go back, they can
just pollinate their schools
and their communities.
And also, themselves.
And that idea came from
a meeting at Apple,
in the Apple Headquarters
in California.
I had gone to their
headquarters.
And spoken with them.
And I met the Apple -- I think
it was the Tecnologia Chicas.
The Technological Chicas.
You know, young women
that were working
on new software for
virtual systems.
I said, "I like that idea a lot.
I love that project, as well."
Then we did many projects.
And the Library of Congress
was so generous with me.
And the National
Peoples were very kind.
And it was a great to meet them.
And I was grateful to have that
access to create a new project
for the wider audience
of our nation.
And therefore, worldwide.
>> Robert Pinsky: Something
I'd like to pick up on
that Juan Felipe said.
Was he said that there
was so much cooperation
from teachers and librarians.
This country, with its
different languages.
Its many social divisions.
Its geographical differences.
Different regional accents.
The public schools,
in particular,
the school's teachers.
I think anybody who has had
the poet laureate position,
I hope -- I know Juan
Felipe will agree with me.
You know, discover how many
people are doing a very good job
for not any glory.
And no particular
tremendous financial gain.
And they are going
above and beyond.
And it's a great
friend of poetry.
And of American culture
in general.
When I did the Favorite
Poem Project.
We did these very
high-grade videos.
We're still adding a few now
and then at favoritepoem.org.
Those five-minute videos -- to
get people to be the readers.
People of different
regions and ethnicities.
And find people who
wrote the poetry.
So, you could have a family --
California, Cambodian
American kids in high school,
reading a Langston Hughes poem.
We had no budget
whatsoever for that.
Teachers helped us.
For about 15 years, 15 or
20 years, I did an institute
for K-12 teachers,
based on those videos.
And we included librarians.
And they were not
all English teachers.
History teachers.
Art teachers.
And we have, in those
videos, I know,
a record that teachers
still use.
If you want to do a unit on war.
We have the Vietnam Veteran
who has never been able to go
to the Wall in Washington.
Although, he lives
in Washington.
And for us he went and he
read, Yusef Komunyakaa's,
"Facing It," at the Wall.
And you would have that kid who
reads the Langston Hughes poem.
And relates it to the
state of Cambodia.
So, I think this is an
opportunity to say thank you
to teachers and librarians.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
Thank you, thank you.
>> Robert Pinsky:
And those together.
And in some ways, their
work is worse rewarded
and more threatened than ever.
And they are very
important to us.
They are very important.
>> Robert Casper: Yeah,
yeah, most definitely.
Thank you both for that.
I want to touch upon
a word you used
in describing the laureateship.
And you -- Juan Felipe.
And you elaborated on,
Robert, democratic.
Hope writes in this question
about comparing these projects
that were so democratic.
And I want to expand
upon that question.
To ask about the kind of civic
role of the laureateship.
>> Robert Pinsky: I'm
very suspicious of it.
Because I -- by upbringing
and in a way as an American.
I'm very suspicious of
culture being official,
centralized or governmental.
So, it's important to think
of oneself as a participant.
Not anything like an
imperator or orveture.
One is trying to find
out what is there.
And I've always maintained
that poetry is inherently
on a human scale.
It's about each person's voice.
And the voice is one at a time.
So, that in the nature
of the medium of poetry.
It's the opposite
of a mass medium.
It's the small scale that I
write for a persons imagined
or actual voice and ear.
That makes it an important
civic fact, in my opinion.
That this is not part of
the entertainment industry.
It's not on a mass scale.
I'm very glad we showed the
videos on the news hour.
I'm glad that there
have been, you know,
tens of thousands
of viewings of them.
But in some essential way,
it says the important thing
in this art, is the
dignity of the individual.
>> Robert Casper: Juan
Felipe, have we lost you.
Are you still there?
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
I'm still here.
I was just listening to Robert.
[ Laughter ]
Well, you know, that's
-- it is --
it is so true what
Robert says, you know?
It's a very personal
relationship with poetry.
And all of us want to --
all of us have this
beautiful voice inside of us.
And we project it out, ideally.
And so, that's what
begins to happen.
And listening to others --
others voices in a
book or in a reading.
And then also, you know,
there's a counterbalance
of the collective
and the community.
You know, being a
Chicano, a Mexican, my --
growing up as a Mexican
migrant child.
I'm still -- I'm still a
Mexican migrant child inside.
And that's my experience in man.
And you're always thinking
about the center of society.
You know, we're always battling
with it in one way or another.
>> Robert Pinsky: Sure.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Because we live at the margins.
So...
>> Robert Pinsky: I'll recommend
-- I'll recommend in particular,
the video of a teacher,
Glaisma Perez-Silva,
a teacher in Connecticut.
She reads in English and in
Spanish, Julia de Burgos' poem.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Oh, beautiful.
>> Robert Pinsky:
And she reads it
in both languages
with such force.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Right.
>> Robert Pinsky: And
she teaches multilingual,
multiethnic kids in a public
school in Connecticut.
And the poem is about history.
The poem -- Glaisma reading
the poem, makes me think
of Stephen Dedalus,
"So what is history?
History is a nightmare for
which I am trying to awake."
And Julia de Burgos,
demonstrates that in that poem
that Glaisma Perez-Silva,
reads at favoritepoem.org.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: And
we also think often
of the Italian poet,
Eugenio Montale.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Oh, Montale.
>> Robert Pinsky: And his
writing about fascism.
He has an essay about
fascist poetry.
Using basically, there was none.
Yeah. That somehow
something about the art,
they couldn't come up with it.
He says, one person wrote a
poem about Mussolini's hands.
There's a little bit.
But it was mostly
a great vacuum.
And that's significant.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Yes, Montale, yes.
I lent that book out, Robert.
And I never got it
back [brief laughter].
I got to get back to that.
>> Robert Pinsky: He has a lot
of interesting things to say.
A man who is deeply an artist.
And he has lots to say
about art and politics,
in a very cultured way.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Yes, yes, yes.
You know, the question of power.
The question of power is
always either chasing us
or we're battling with it.
>> Robert Pinsky: Yes.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
And that's --
so, that's a good thing.
Even though sometimes we
get lost in that question.
I've been pretty tangled up with
that question, you
know, recently.
And that's what this
new book is all about.
You know, migrants and the power
that's newly upon them to...
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
The whole think, you know,
the borders [inaudible].
>> Robert Pinsky: Crisis.
And everything, including
that video I'm talking about.
That woman, who she's
Puertorriquena originally.
And can't go back, because she
has a mission in Connecticut.
And we're at a significant
crisis.
And poetry, perhaps is
significant in the midst of it.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: There's
a lot of poetry, you're right.
There's a lot of
poetry coming up.
But I did like that reader.
I did like the reader
of that poem
in your video and your project.
It was -- like you said, it
was a powerful voice she has.
And yeah, and it's all these
questions are coming out.
Rather, the poetry is.
All of a sudden, I say,
where are the poets --
where are all these
poets brought from?
I mean, there's just
forests of poets.
There's just forests of poets.
And I remember, in terms of the
Latino, you know, fluorescents,
if we can call it that.
You know, let's call it that.
Like, the late 60s.
And it was, I remember,
[inaudible]
and you know, a Mongolia.
And [inaudible].
It was a good group.
>> Robert Pinsky: You said art.
And it occurs to me
that on the large scale,
on the national scale.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: Is similar
to when people have --
and I know all poets feel this.
People ask me to suggest a
poem when there's a funeral.
And there's a wedding.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Sure.
>> Robert Pinsky: They
leave some important --
that these many people do
make it a habit of picking
up "Paradise Lost," every day.
Or Pablo Neruda, every day.
And then the emergency
is there for the funeral.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky:
Or for a wedding.
It's, hey, I'll use Rob's words,
a civic need, a community need.
And then oh, do you have a poem?
And in some ways, I
think that happens
when there's a large-scale
crisis, as well.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky:
Let's go to this.
I remember after
911, I was laureate.
And there was a flood
of people asking,
what can you read for us?
What can you tell us to read?
What is the poetry?
And this happens in
times of emergency.
It's like medical care,
people suddenly need it.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky:
And God bless it.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's right.
And the good thing is,
is that we always know
where that poem is, you know?
We always have it.
>> Robert Pinsky: Or
[inaudible], yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Yeah, we come up with it.
Oh, [speaking in
foreign language].
You know, let's get together.
You know, there's, like you
said, there's these lifecycles
that are important to us.
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
You know, birth,
marriage, death, all that.
And we just come
out of the woodwork.
Because we have that poem in us.
And it's beautiful.
And it's the people's poetry.
And it's available.
And it's something that,
you know, we all can do.
My mother would just
stand up, you know.
We were just talking
in our little trailer
or our little apartment.
And all of a sudden,
she would just stand up
and recite a little poem she
remembered from third grade.
Which was the last grade that
she attended in El Paso, Texas.
But she remembered the poem.
And most of all, she
had the love of poetry.
Or the love of voice.
And the love of, you
know, being dramatica.
Or, you know, performing.
Because women, as you know,
as we know, weren't allowed
to perform in the theaters.
And present themselves.
And express themselves.
And move and dance and perform.
So, my mom was one
of those women.
She wanted to do
all those things.
So, suddenly, it would be,
like, burst with a poem.
And I love that.
And I encourage that.
And let's do that.
And you mentioned crisis.
I think we've always
been in a crisis.
And like the migrant question.
I'll go back to that.
The border question.
The LGBTQ question.
The women's question.
The gender question.
The Jewish question.
The African American question.
The black question and all that.
The question of color,
race and class.
So, we're always in
crisis, in a sense.
And that -- those feels enforce
a poem, poets, are ready to go.
It's so true.
And I'm glad we're
talking about it.
>> Robert Casper: Well,
let me jump in here
and ask the question Libby asks.
"Who and or what first
inspired you to write poetry?"
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
My mother, you know,
my mother inspired
me to write poetry.
I grew up with the Sons of the
Mexican Revolution as a child.
Imagine that?
And lullabies in Spanish.
And rhymes and riddles,
all the time.
From the -- from I don't
know, the first ten minutes.
The first 20 minutes.
All the way through high school.
She was always doing that.
And I was always following
her and repeating it.
And, of course, by the
time I got to high school,
I had my folk song guitar.
My Stella -- my Stella six
string guitar, $20 guitar.
So, I would play
those same songs.
And we would sing together.
Which were perhaps one of
the most beautiful moments
that I had with my mother
was to sing together.
And I stuck to the harmony.
And [inaudible] that
I had a harmonic line.
It was beautiful.
>> Robert Pinsky:
All right, I'm back.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
So, I think those poems
from my mom, the root of poetry.
>> Robert Casper: Happy
to have you back, Robert.
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
Just like grade school,
I was playing hooky.
It happened in high
school many times.
But I could hear my
eloquent friend the poet.
And I was -- when I left
accidently, I was going to talk
about the poem by Carlos
Drummond de Andrade.
The poem translated from the
Portuguese by Marks friend.
And how that became one
of the poems for 911.
And it is part of that,
where we go to poetry,
when we need something
that is both communal.
And that is, to repeat myself,
related to the dignity
of the individual.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Yeah, yeah.
>> Robert Casper: Annia
[assumed spelling] asks,
"If either of you have ever
experienced writers block?
And how you've overcome it?"
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Every day.
>> Robert Pinsky:
Doing it right now.
And every day I --
if I, to go extremes,
I'll pick up something I love.
And read something I love.
Or listen to music I love.
So, if I listen to
Thelonious Monk or Mozart.
Or if I read that
Strand translation
of the Carlos Drummond
de Andrade.
It reminds me why I love poetry.
And then I just am
accustomed to saying to myself,
write something stupid."
Maybe it would work
better if I stay with it.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's right.
>> Robert Pinsky: And you
must undergo the humiliation
of being stupid or
uninteresting.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: And people who
stop writing, are not the people
with the least talent.
They're the people with the
least -- the strange almost,
I guess it is this
masochistic willingness to say,
I'm going to fail, in
hopes I can succeed.
I'm willing to have
the humiliation
of something not really good.
And then maybe it will get good.
And to remind myself of what's
good, I'll pick up my anthology.
My personal anthology.
Or my one from the
video project,
"Americans Favorite Poems."
And I'll read.
I'll open it at random.
And here's, Gerard
Manley Hopkins.
And somebody's saying
why they like it.
So, if Hopkins can do it,
this neglected, unhappy,
miserable, homosexual Jesuit.
I'm so lucky.
I'm just a white man
in Massachusetts.
He wrote a great poem.
Maybe even if I write
a dumb poem,
it can get a little better
if I think about him.
That's my story of
writers' block.
And it's perpetual.
[ Laughter ]
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's so true.
That's so true.
I'm persecuted by
poetry, you know?
I can't stop.
And just like Robert says, I
think I just don't have that DNA
where it says, stop for
a while, Juan Felipe.
And actually, know
it, it's like,
a poem that's going to work.
I mean, come on, slow down.
Look at that poem.
And give it attention.
And, you know, look
at it, you know,
and see what the
[inaudible] is and its images.
And see how it's all working.
But poetry just persecutes me.
It pushes me to the next task.
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
And there I am,
writing again, scribbling.
>> Robert Pinsky:
Like it or not.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Huh?
>> Robert Pinsky:
Like it or not.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Like it or not.
And I'm counselling Belinda,
the librarian of Photographs
and Prints at the
Library of Congress.
I said, oh, here's
some big paper.
And go ahead.
And away I go, you know?
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
And she took some photos
and video of that.
And had a great time
together with Katherine Blood,
at the Library of Congress.
But I'm kind of persecuted
by it.
You know, I have,
you know, stuff,
you know, this is green ink.
And on and on.
But there does come
a time, right?
There does come a time
when you kind of settle in.
And that poem really
starts working out.
And then I just slow down.
And I see it, you know, where
it's really saying things.
Where I get some depth.
And stuff that's
just experience.
And I just take it out
and give it some time.
>> Robert Pinsky:
It's extraneous --
it's extraneous until you
find a way to have it in.
My prescription for writer's
block to students, always is,
type up with your fingers
something you love.
Type up your favorite
Emily Dickenson.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: Or
[inaudible] or Neruda.
And this is my anthology
that I have owned
since I was quite young.
And at some point, I learned
the word processor can arrange
them alphabetically.
So, I can open them at random.
And here's George Herbert.
And here's Allen Ginsberg.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Oh, yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: I -- it's
like an autobiography, too.
And over the years,
it's gotten quite thick.
And, you know, it's
your familiar font.
You're sitting in the
position of writing.
And maybe the poetry Gods
will say, "Look at Robert,
he typed that Emily
Dickenson poem.
Let's reward him.
We'll give him a little help."
[ Laughter ]
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's a good thing.
You know, I really hadn't
considered doing things
like that.
But, you know, it's
a great thing to do.
I was listening to a kind
of a Buddhist calligrapher
on a podcast from the
San Francisco Zen Center.
And he was talking
about calligraphy.
He says, "You know, we
don't write a whole thing,
when we start learning
calligraphy.
We don't -- you know, all the
letters in a big old line.
No, no, no, no."
He says, "Pick one letter.
And we go over it and
over it and over it again.
And then when we get going,
we'll copy a poem or a line
from the early novelists
of the third century
or fourth century, I believe.
And then we do that, you
know, slowly, slowly, slowly.
And that also connects
us with them.
You know, their repetition
and their..."
>> Robert Pinsky:
All the ancestors.
Everybody whose every made
that character is behind you.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yes.
>> Robert Pinsky: And I find
that if I have a poem by heart.
I especially love it if I hadn't
quite get it by heart, but I do.
So, if a poem -- William
Carlos Williams poem,
"Now they're resting in
the fleckless light."
And they're resting in
the fleckless light.
And it's like that character.
If I think about it
in one consonant.
One sound.
Resting. Fleckless.
Resting in the fleckless.
I can just stay with it a while.
It will -- calms me down.
And wakes me up a little bit.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yes.
>> Robert Pinsky: Oh, fleckless,
oh, that's what it is.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: And
you've written about that
in one of your books, right?
That you talk about the accents
of the lines and the terms.
>> Robert Pinsky: Yeah.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
And you're right.
That's what gets us, too.
>> Robert Pinsky: It's a
bodily -- it's a physical art.
And it's somewhere here.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Pinsky: And you
can remind yourself of that.
It's like music or sports.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
It's like music.
>> Robert Pinsky: It's
the physical part of it.
You start to remember it.
And perhaps you get a
little bit better, too.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
That's right.
And that's what plagues us.
Isn't that true, Robert?
This is what we look at.
You know, this is
what we listen to.
This is what we know.
Little tiny, you know,
little tiny little
fragments of a poem or a line.
And then we are listening to it.
And then we are looking at it.
>> Robert Pinsky:
That's what's life.
That's what's life.
I don't mean to ban
the intellectual.
It's good to hear smart things.
It's good to know things.
But the heart of the art is
in the physical sounds
of the words.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera: Yeah.
>> Robert Casper: Well, I can't
imagine a better place to end.
I didn't get to very
many questions.
It was just a joy to hear the
two of you talk to one another.
And I hope that everyone
watching, takes the opportunity
to listen to you read.
And discuss your poem.
Thank you so much,
Juan Felipe and Robert.
>> Juan Felipe Herrera:
Thank you.
>> Robert Casper:
Poets laureate,
Juan Felipe Herrera
and Robert Pinsky.
Whose poetry collections are
"Every day We Get More Illegal."
And "At the Foundling Hospital."
Please go check out their
presentations on the Poetry
and Prose Stage of the
National Book Festival
at nationalbookfestival.com.
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