[ Music ] >> Anne Holmes: Hello, and welcome to the National Book Festival. My name is Anne Holmes from the Library of Congress. Unfortunately, Ann Druyan was unable to make it to today's Q&A, but I am thrilled to be here with Leland Melvin, author of "Chasing Space: An Astronaut's Story of Grit, Grace, and Second Chances." And Jonathan Eller, Director of the Center for Ray Bradbury Studies, and the author of multiple books about the life of Bradbury -- including, "Ray Bradbury: The Life of Fiction," "Becoming Ray Bradbury," and "Ray Bradbury Unbound." If you'd like to see their presentation at the festival, which includes Ann Druyan, you can do so on the Science Stage. The title of their session is "The Ray Bradbury Effect," in which they discuss the impact of Ray -- excuse me -- Ray Bradbury's writing on their work and lives. Welcome, Leland and Jonathan. It's good to have you here. >> Leland Melvin: Great to be here, Anne. Thank you. >> Jonathan Eller: Thank you, Anne. >> Anne Holmes: So for our audience members, please start asking questions, which I will then read to our special guests today. While folks are writing their questions, I just wanted to kick things off by asking you both about the effect of Ray Bradbury's work on your own work and lives. When did you first become acquainted with Ray Bradbury's work? >> Leland Melvin: Do you want to go first, Jonathan, or -- >> Jonathan Eller: Okay, all right. 1962, as a schoolboy, I found a copy of "The Golden Apples of the Sun." With that title story of the magical trip that Bradbury envisioned, scientists going to the moon to scoop up magic golden apples of fusion, to bring it back to earth to give us a new kind of promethean fire, a new form of energy. That was the beginning for me, and then later in the Air Force when I met him, and then after that as a college professor, I studied him quite a bit. And my own publications as a writer and as a scholar have turned almost exclusively to Ray Bradbury. >> Leland Melvin: That's fantastic, Jonathan. I read "the Martian Chronicles" probably about maybe 15 years ago. And it was this, you know, incredible science fiction fantasy that was layered with so much texture and streams. And you know, Ray was so creative. I mean, he wrote in a way that had this beautiful imagination about future worlds. And you know, as an astronaut, you know, we go through the details of getting everything done just right. And sometimes I think we forget about the art being part of what we do as explorers. And I've always talked about, you know, from STEM education to STEAM education. Because the arts are so important in helping us see the possibilities of us working together in a future, on maybe another planet, or maybe going past our solar system if we can get some warp drive going. But I think he was just such an empathetic writer and so creative, that it just inspired me so much. >> Anne Holmes: Beth asks if you could talk about your personal journey from sports, to space, to writing and music and more. >> Leland Melvin: No problem. Hi, Beth. I am -- you know, I had parents who really inspired me to be a, you know, complete student. I mean, you know, they had me playing sports. They had me taking piano lessons and clarinet lessons, and you know, they always exposed me to different things. And also my mom, when I was very young, she read to me two books that are still impactful to me today. "The Little Engine That Could" -- "I think I can; I think I can," which as a little kid, let me know that I could do anything. I just had to believe in it, and I could pull this bigger train over the mountaintop as a little engine. And then also "Curious George." And Curious George was, you know, this book that showed me that you always need a Man or Woman in the Yellow Hat -- someone who has your back. Because if you get in trouble, if you do something you're not supposed to do, those people can help you get out of that situation. And so those were very formative. And as I play sports, as I did math and science, I always believed that I could do anything that I tried. And you know, so going to -- I was drafted to play with the NFL for a little while, and I pulled a hamstring, but you know, I went to another team. But I started graduate school, the material science engineering, and then went to work for NASA. And at NASA, a friend of mine said, "You would be a great astronaut." And I just laughed. I mean, I didn't want to be an astronaut, but he said, "No, you'd be great." And I didn't fill the application out, but another friend of Jonathan and mine, Charlie Camarda, he filled the application out; he got in when I didn't apply. And I said to myself, "If that knucklehead can get in, I can get in, too." So I applied the next selection, and I got into the astronaut program, and flew in 2008 t009 to the Space Station. So I think, Jonathan, Charlie was influential in both of our lives in some ways. But I think that whole premise of, "I think I can," and having someone who has your back has been something that's led me through, you know, having success in different areas, and knowing that you can do it. >> Anne Holmes: Thank you so much. Leland, there's sort of a follow-up question to that, which is, how do you use music and photography -- and you can talk here, too, about Ray Bradbury's influence -- to inspire the younger generation to explore Stem, or Steam, I know, as you like to include the A in there. >> Leland Melvin: Yeah, I think, you know, one of the really important things about anything that our kids are learning, is that it needs to be inclusive of all things. Because some kids are visual learners. Some kids -- people learn in different ways, and we need to find ways to unlock what's in kids' heads, and find out what they're interested in, what they love. Because if they love something, they will do it. And so if we're trying to force everyone into a STEM curriculum -- science, technology, engineering, mathematics -- and would leave out the A for the arts, which is critical to design, and building, and creating, then we've lost a whole group of kids that could possibly be great writers, great contributors, but also be great scientists, too. And my music helped me with my math. I mean, really, when you're playing these notes, they're overtones, you know. There's physics all layered into the music that you're playing. So if you understand physics and math, you understand music. And when I was in space on my first mission, Quincy Jones interviewed me and said the two absolutes are math and music. Because if you know math, you really know music. And I think we need to let kids know -- and Jonathan, you know this. I mean, the creativity of just living a full life on this planet involves everything that you can potentially do, and I think that's what helped me sometimes, by going back to the music, or with the math, and they -- how they were kind of interconnected. >> Jonathan Eller: Absolutely. The -- you know, the ancient philosophers said the unexamined life is not worth living. >> Leland Melvin: Right. >> Jonathan Eller: And in our session, you talked about how, you know, to have a purpose-driven life, we need the imagination working in concert with the other technical things you describe. >> Leland Melvin: Right, right. >> Anne Holmes: Well, thanks to you both. Jonathan, I'm wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about the origins of the Center for Ray Bradbury studies? >> Jonathan Eller: Okay, that's a long topic, but I'm getting pretty good at making it a fairly short discussion. I'm -- I -- you know, you never expect the events that change your life. I know Leland in his book, talks quite a bit about the unexpected, and how you work those things in your life. For me it was meeting Ray Bradbury as a major in the Air Force. I was teaching at the Air Force Academy. In the last years of my Air Force career, when he was assigned to me and my wife Debbie with -- for a week during a science fiction conference that colleagues of mine put on at the Air Force Academy, a very wonderful science fiction conference. And that's where our relationship began. Eventually I did a lot of projects, some with his longtime bibliographer, Don Albright, and together we did some limited editions of Ray's works. But primarily, I would go out to the house once or twice a year along with Don, to visit with Ray. And Ray was very interested in that young writer he had once been. Because you have to remember that his decade lasts for -- his career lasts for seven decades as a professional writer. And after the 1960s -- after he gets into his 40s, from then on, he's looking back at the young writer he had been. How did he write his work? How did he evolve his work? Because he often would rework his stories to create books like "The Martian Chronicles" or "Dandelion Wine." And that was my doctoral expertise, was in the evolution of texts. So we began to work together, and finally, after his passing, with family. And Don Albright arranged for everything in the household to come. And we pulled a 53-foot Mayflower moving van out of his Los Angeles home, and brought it to the Center for Ray Bradbury studies, where we're still in the process of organizing all these wonderfully complicated files. Because he was a person who had ideas constantly, and his files reflected that kind of reactive, hard-to-follow organization. And I think our people are going to be pulling all that stuff together out of his files for decades to come. >> Leland Melvin: Nice. >> Anne Holmes: That's fascinating; thank you so much. We have another question for you from Carrie, who asks, "I would love to hear Dr. Eller talk about how NASA brought Ray Bradbury in when he was not a scientist, to consult. Maybe explain why they wanted him there, how he felt about it." >>Jonathan Eller: Well, that's a good question. It's good to hear from Carrie. And I would -- you know, you go back to "The Golden Apples of the Sun," for a second. Because that story is scientifically ridiculous, you know. How can you put a crew in a ship at one degree above absolute zero to keep them from dying in the 5 to 10,000-degree heat of the sun, to bring back golden apples? It has no scientific validity, whatsoever; it's the idea. And that story helped inspire countless astronauts, astrophysicists, planetary geologists, astronauts, aerospace engineers, and they were attracted to him because he had the dream, and in their lifetimes, and in Leland's lifetime -- his career with NASA, and now past it as an educator. Those dreams became our dreams somewhere along the line in our lives. And so it was just natural for NASA to see him as a talisman, almost as a good-luck charm. And that was so important, I think, for him, being selected to testify for Reagan's -- President Reagan's Commission on Space. And President George W. Bush's commission in 2005, he spoke there, too. And you get a sense of his magic by the way he talks. I'm just going to give you a quick quote, and it sort of answers Carrie's question. Ray said -- They said, "Why go to space, with the budget the way it is?" And Ray said, "Why? Because life wants to exist, wants to survive, wants to be free of the conflicts of earth, even as America, when it was created, was running away from the conflicts of Europe. We're going into space to be free of the politics and the conflicts of the various nations, and to become one new nation on the planet Mars. Nothing is more exciting to our children." And he closed by saying, "The children, knowing that their future is in space, will say to their parents, "Do it." >> Leland Melvin: Wow, that's beautiful; that's beautiful. >> Anne Holmes: So Leland, this question is for you from Ishmael. For someone who wants to become an astronaut, what fields should they pursue? >> Leland Melvin: Great question, Ishmael. I think that you should pursue the career that you love, and if that career matches up with, you know, science or engineering, and -- you know, because I think you have to -- there's -- go to the NASA website and look up, you know, the careers that you can be for a NASA astronaut. But it's science, you know, engineering, medical doctor, you know, those are some of the -- that's kind of the big, broad category. But find some -- one of those things, and that -- if you love doing that, and then, you know, apply yourself, become excellent in some, you know, one of those fields, and then you need three years of work experience. But I think that the biggest thing is, with this -- the new way of doing space besides being a NASA astronaut, you could be a astronaut for Blue Origin, for Spacex, for Virgin Galactic, and get to space without having to do your science and engineering. There are going to be opportunities for people that are writers, that are musicians, that, you know, are going to get to space and be inspired, and bring back even more creativity from getting that orbital perspective. That when we look at the planet -- this picture I took here of the planet earth, over Argentina, Chile, and Peru, those are the Andes Mountains. And that thin, blue line right there -- it's kind of over there -- is our atmosphere. And so you see these incredible things, and you will come back and write, and compose, and you know, and just be -- bring and share that information back to more people to inspire them. Just what, you know, Ray Bradbury did in his writings, in his -- in just this -- his way of living, you know. He -- and Jonathan, maybe you can add to this. I mean, his way of life was just to share the impossible, you know, and make it possible. And I think if you think about things like that, that you want to learn about, you know, you can be an astronaut. And I know that there is a -- someone who purchased six seats on the rocket for Jeff Bezos, the Blue origin Rocket, that they're going to give to people that aren't scientists and engineers, so that they can be inspired. And so, those kinds of things are happening out there. But the NASA route is science or engineering, and then doing something with that in a professional setting. And then applying to the Astronaut Corps. >> John Eller: Yes, and you know, Ray was so honored to even stand among the astronauts sometimes. When he addressed the first, second, and third groups of astronauts in 1967, as a guest at the Houston Space flight Center as it used to be called, The Johnson space Flight Center, he saw when he was introduced, -- He was in the back of the room. And the astronauts, many of them turned around and, like, made eye contact with him, give him - gave him the wink. And afterwards, they said, because he was writing articles for "Life Magazine," "We're glad to have you on the team." And that's when Ray knew that, although he would never go to space, some of his dreams and visions would go to space with those generations of astronauts, and with the generations right down through Leland's generation in the Astronaut Corps, and now beyond Leland with the younger astronauts here today. >> Leland Melvin: Right. >> Anne Holmes: Great, thank you. So here are a couple of fun questions. A lot of folks have uploaded this question. And I suppose both of you can answer it. At this particular time, would you rather be in space? >> Leland Melvin: Jonathan? >> Jonathan Eller: I would rather have surround sound IMAX image of that grandeur that astronauts like Leland have photographed, like you see behind him there. But again now, 20 years in the Air Force taught me that I am not very good orienting in vehicles. So I would say, "I'd like to be there through proxy. >> Leland Melvin: [chuckles] But you get used to it. You know, the body figures it out, Jonathan, once you get up there. I would - You know, I think I'm where I'm supposed to be now, so that I can bring the perspective that I was able to get, and blessed to get in space, on two missions, back to Planet Earth, so that we can have a perspective while we're going through these pandemics, and all of this social unrest. But to bring some calm to this, and to say that, you know, "Together we saw these problems." In space, if we didn't work together, we would perish. And I think that we need to bring that here, because this is a Spaceship Earth that we're on. You know, it has a life support system. It has ecosystems. It has all these things, just like a spaceship. And you know, to survive on this, we're going to have to get along, or we're going to perish. And so, I want to be here to help with inspiring that next generation to take my place, you know, to take Ray Bradbury's place, and, you know, and help inspire the more people to have a human civilization working together. >> Anne Holmes: thank you both so much for that - those thoughtful responses. Leland, we have a question from Emily. What role does or did literature play in your career as an engineer and astronaut? >> Leland Melvin: Oh my goodness. I read all the time. I mean, I read more, you know, before getting into the Astronaut Corps, because I had so much training and stuff to do. But I was still reading. It was just a little bit less. But, you know, as Jonathan said about what Ray has given to the universe, this ability to communicate this fantasy, these things that have not been achieved yet. But as we as explorers are trying to achieve it, you know, in real time, it gives you that blueprint of ways to do it. And you know, when conflict comes up, you know, how do you resolve conflict? How do people work together, you know? Tough it out, you know the isms: racism, sexism, are all these things that are happening, you know? And that happens in space too. That - And you want to shut all that down so that you work as a team together. And I think it's just, you know, so important that we have a balanced life. You know, we have a technical side as astronauts. We have a creative side. We have the - We love to - In space we have space smorgasbords where we have these meals. And everyone comes together and shares their food from, you know, all over the world. And we're like a family. >> Leland Melvin: And I think that's what literature does. It exposes you to so many things that - from your room, you know, from your house, from your favorite chair. And let's you go on these journeys, to allow you to maybe go on those journeys in the real world, and not just fantasy. >> Anne Holmes: thank you so much Jonathan, we have a question for you that a bunch of people have uploaded. They want to know what the buttons on your lapel are. >> Jonathan Eller: Well, you know, I spent 20 years of my life in uniforms. And you learn to read this. They're symbiotic of people's ribbons. So I have continued that habit a little bit with these pins. Ray gave me the top one, which is Mars Global Surveyor, which was the - so, you know - that was, you know, the Mariner 9 in 1971, gave me the first photos of mars. But the Global Surveyor in the mid '90's, man, that was the one! That was the one that really has continued to take a lot of pictures. And then that's a little planet Mars. You can get anything in a porcelain pin, these days. So, there you go. I'm happy wearing them. >> Anne Holmes: Thank you so much. - >> Leland Melvin: And one other thing: Jonathan reminded me that the Phoenix Rover in 2008, on Mars polar caps, had "the Martian Chronicles" on board, along with other science fiction pieces. Jonathan? >> Jonathan Eller: That's true. That's right. And we have Ray's personal duplicate disk in the Bradbury Center. >> Leland Melvin: Nice, nice. >> Anne Holmes: Thank you both. Leland, this question is for you. And it goes back a little bit to what you were talking about earlier, about studying STEAM and STEM. Teenagers are living during this pandemic, while contemplating their futures. What inspirational words can you pass on to them to continue to stay motivated, to learn STEAM coursework, and pursue their dreams, specifically teen agers of color? >> Leland Melvin: I am - so, you know, I - my heart has been heavy a lot lately. But I always know that, what we're going through now is temporal. It's a finite amount of time. And we can choose one of two things. We can stay down, depressed, and go to another place. Or we can be that light, you know, and try to be uplifting. And you know, for me, I've been playing the piano more. I've been walking my dog more. I've been cooking more. I've been using this as a chance to grow in different ways that I haven't necessarily had the time to do before. I've been reading more. And so, finding out internally inside of you, what is it that really motivates you and inspires you? And what is the thing that you want to do to make a contribution to society? What brings you joy? Try to hone those things, do those things. And find out if you're - if it's, you know, STEM, if it's the A with the arts in STEAM. You know, try to figure out how to weave those things together, so that when we come out of this, when there's vaccine, and when we go forward, that you're bringing your best self forward to help others and yourself go - rise and go to whatever level you want to. And I think of, you know, 400 years we've had the slavery. We had a woman named Harriet Tubman, who even during oppression and slavery, was able to escape, come back, bring more people to freedom, and then lead scouts and armies. And so, under such dire conditions, she was able to do some incredible things. And I think we can do anything if we put our minds to it and believe in it. And I think that's what, you know, Ray did in his writings. He believed in it. He did it. He wrote it. And inspired people like myself to go to space when I didn't even think about going to space. >> Jonathan Eller: Yes indeed. You know, Ray observed in 1969, for Apollo 11 landing, in an interview with Mike Wallace, he said, "You know, the real war we should be fighting - the real conflict should be with the cosmos - should be with space, because the space doesn't give a darn about us. >> Leland Melvin: Exactly. >> Jonathan Eller: We have to make our way. And, you know, Leland's been there, and has been one cabin wall and atmospheric pressure away from annihilation. - >> Leland Melvin: Right. >> Jonathan Eller: And that's really the war we should be fighting. >> Leland Melvin: Yeah, and to add to that, Jonathan, when I was interviewing to become an astronaut, after the interview, we had a social. And John Young walked up to me. John Young walked on the moon. He flew the first space shuttle flight. And he said to me, "Leland, once we stop exploring as a civilization, we will falter. We have to continue to explore." And whether it's in space, the oceans, it's explore relationships with people that don't talk like you, they don't eat the same food you do, maybe wear different headdresses, this is all about exploration. And it brings us together. And space is an incredible place to explore, you know. >> Anne Holmes: Thank you both. We have another question for Leland, from another person named Leland. He says, "Hello. I'm in school. And I was wondering how you entertained yourself in your down time in space, and when working on tough science problems? >> Leland Melvin: yeah. The first one: looking out the window. You go around the planet every 90 minutes. You see a sunrise and a sunset every 45 minutes. And I was listening to Sade while having dinner, looking out the window at my home town. So you really get entertained by just looking at the grandeur and mastery of the planet. It's just such a stunning and beautiful place. And then doing math homework, I always do the even problems. I do the odd problems. I do all the problems, because usually the odd problems - if you're doing the even ones - are on the test. So you can make your grades better if you do all the problems. And I usually listen to music while I'm doing math problems. >> Anne Holmes: thank you for that. We are almost out of time, sadly. So we have time I think for one or maybe two more questions. This question is for both of you. It's from Myra. And Myra asks, "Do you think science writing should get more place in school reading curriculums?" and then a separate question: which is, "What do you think of Ray Bradbury's 'Illustrated Man?'" >> Leland Melvin: Jonathan, do both of those. >> Jonathan Eller: Okay, well, "The Illustrated Man" is what Ray himself would call super fascinating. He - when he was really moved by something, or wrote - And he always wrote about things he loved. That whole concept was "super fascinating" to him. A tattooed man who was never able to work as a tattooed man in the circus, because everybody around him would see that the tattoos, if you stared at them long enough, would start to tell stories. And they would start to tell the future. It was well before that, you know, kind of art became fairly widespread in American culture. So he sort of was a foreseer of that particular aesthetic coming from other lands, very popularly, into America. But he also used it to weave 18 stories into a story collection called "the Illustrated Man." Each story is immerging from one of those tattoos. So visual writer - very visual writer, his words are meant to be spoken as much as to be read silently. And that's a natural fit with the whole world of tattoos. >> Leland Melvin: And science writing is a must. It inspires us. It motivates us. And I'm working on a graphic novel now - a three series graphic novel for kids to look at them going to space. So it's really important. >> Anne Holmes: Wonderful. Thank you both so much. And unfortunately, we are out of time. So thank you, Leland and Jonathan for sharing your time with us so generously. For our audience, again we've been speaking with Leland Melvin, author of "Chasing Space: An Astronaut's Story of Grit, Grace and Second Chances," and Jonathan Eller, director of The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies and the author of multiple books about the life of Bradbury. [ Music ]