>> Carla Hayden:
Hello, I'm Carla Hayden,
Librarian of Congress, and it
is my pleasure to welcome you
to the Veterans History
Project Panel Discussion
on Motherhood and the Military.
Twenty years ago, Congress
created the Veterans History
Project to strengthen
our shared understanding
of American history by
collecting, preserving,
and making accessible
the individual stories
of U.S. military veterans.
Through the efforts of
volunteers across the country,
helping to preserve the
remembrances of veterans
and Gold Star family
members in their lives,
the Veterans History
Project has archived more
than 111,000 personal narratives
from America's servicemen
and women.
With Mother's Day around
the corner, we are fortunate
to be joined today
by four veterans
who will share their
personal histories
as mothers and service members.
Before we kick of the
panel, we are honored
to welcome U.S. Senators Tammy
Duckworth, from Illinois,
and Joni Ernst, from Iowa, of
different political parties,
but both moms and veterans,
which underscores not only the
dual roles of service to country
and family, but also
a shared commitment
to our national well-being that
transcends the partisan divide
and unites us as Americans.
>> Senator Joni Ernst:
Hi everyone.
This is Senator Joni Ernst,
from the great state of Iowa.
As a mother, a combat veteran,
and a Veterans History Project
participant, I am pleased
to introduce today's Library
of Congress panel discussion
on motherhood and the military.
In 2003, when my daughter
Libby was just a little girl,
I deployed to Kuwait during
Operation Iraqi Freedom
as Company Commander of the
Iowa National Guard's 1168th
Transportation Company,
running supply convoys
into Southern Iraq.
It wasn't easy leaving
my little girl
to serve our country half
way across the world,
and that experience left
me with a deep appreciation
for the sacrifice our
military families make,
particularly our
moms in uniform.
In 2019, I recorded and
donated my oral history
to the Library's
Veterans History Project.
Too often, the individual
stories of service and sacrifice
and the impact on
families goes untold,
and I believed it was
important to share mine.
If you are a veteran or a
Gold Star family member,
please consider contributing
your story
to the Veterans History Project
to our wonderful
Library of Congress.
It is important that these
first-hand memories be preserved
and made accessible for future
generations to learn from
and to be inspired by.
Happy Mother's Day to
all of my fellow mothers.
May God bless our men and women
in uniform and our veterans
who have sacrificed so much.
Thank you and I hope
you enjoy the program.
>> Senator Tammy
Duckworth: Hello,
I'm United States Senator
Tammy Duckworth of Illinois.
As a mother, a combat veteran,
and Veterans History Project
participant, I am pleased
to introduce today's Library
of Congress panel discussion
on motherhood and the military.
For many of us, service to our
country is a family affair.
In my family there's
been a Duckworth serving
in uniform during every
period of conflict
in our nation's history, going
to even before the revolution,
during the French
and Indian wars.
I'm proud to have continued
that family legacy of U.S.
in the United States
Army Reserves
and in the Illinois
Army National Guard.
In 2010, I recorded and
donated my oral history
to the Library's
Veterans History Project.
I spoke about my deployment
as a combat pilot in Iraq
and the loss of my legs when
the black hawk helicopter I was
co-piloting was shot down.
Essential to the telling
of that story is my family.
The long stretches
apart from my loved ones
and how my husband
left his job to stay
with me during my
13-month recovery
at Walter Reed Army
Medical Center.
I'm proud of my military
service.
I'm proud of my husband's
military service.
It was privilege
to serve my country
and I want my two daughters
to know how much it
means to our family.
The dual roles of mother and
solider are not uncommon,
but too often the story
of service and sacrifice
and the impact on individual
families goes untold.
Today, you will hear from
four remarkable women veterans
who share their experiences
serving in those dual roles.
If you are a veteran or
Gold Star family member,
please consider contributing
your story
to the Veterans History
Project in our national library.
It is important that these
first-hand remembrances be
preserved and made accessible
to future generations to learn
from and be inspired by.
Happy Mother's Day.
I hope you enjoy the program.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks: My
name is Elizabeth Estabrooks
and I am the Acting
Executive Director
at the VA Center
for Women Veterans.
I joined the military in 1977
and was in the second wave
of women to go through a fully
integrated basic training
at Fort Jackson, South Carolina.
It became clear that
even30 years
after the Armed Services
Integration had passed,
the Army was still learning
how to incorporate women
into what had traditionally
been known as this man's army.
As the only woman in my company
in Germany for six months
and then one of only six, they
weren't quite sure what to do
with me, especially
during my pregnancy,
and then when I had a child.
After all, it wasn't until 1975,
that they even allowed women
to remain when they
became pregnant.
Women my three-year enlistment
ended, I left the military
and since then I focused
on improving services
for women veterans to ensure
that they know we see them,
we hear them, and we are them.
These women today, just like
those who came before them,
remind us that while motherhood
itself can be a full-time job,
some mothers choose to continue
serving in the armed forces.
They juggle the trials
of parenting
with the responsibility
of maintaining operations,
coping with deployment,
and the uncertainty
that can come with it all.
So how do motherhood and
the military intersect?
I will let our distinguished
panelists answer
that question and more.
First up, we have Candy Martin,
a 38-year-old army
combat veteran who retired
as a Chief Warrant Officer five,
but started her military career
in the now discontinued
Women's Army Corps.
In addition to her service,
both active and reserves,
Candy served as an army wife and
parent to four children, Tom,
Laura, Becky, and Sarah.
She became a Gold Star
mother when her son,
U.S. Army First Lieutenant
Thomas Martin was killed
in action in Iraq
in October 2007.
Candy is a proud grandparent who
is an incredibly active member
of various veteran and
civic organizations.
Next, we have Rue Mayweather,
36-year army veteran,
who retired as a
Command Sergeant Major.
Rue shattered quite a few
glass ceilings, being selected
as the first woman
Sergeant Major
and the first African
American woman
in the 4th Brigade
95th division.
She did all of this and more
while raising her son, Kenieth,
who later followed
in her footsteps.
Rue is one of the founding
members of Task Force Sisterhood
Against Sexual Assault and
is an eight-time author
who loves spending time
with her son, grandchildren,
and other family members.
During her 17 years of
service in the Navy,
Commander Rupa Dainer
participated in medical missions
around the world,
including Afghanistan,
where her team was awarded
the Presidential Joint Unit
Commendation for their work
during Operation Marjah.
Her duties culminated
at the Walter Reed National
Military Medical Center,
Bethesda, where she
served as the Chief
of Pediatric Anesthesiology.
Her medical career continued
as the Chief Surgical Officer
at Pediatric Specialists
of Virginia.
Additionally, Dr. Dainer is an
accomplished marksman, musician,
mom to Phoebe and
Aurora, fiancé,
and holds multiple state
records as a power lifter.
Mary Dever was an Air Force
Media Broadcast Journalist
who served as an embedded media
video and photo journalist
in Japan, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Following her deployments, Mary
served her final three years
in in service as an instructor
at Fort Meade, Maryland.
After 10 years of
service, Mary took a role
as the Assistant National
Communications Director
for the one point
two-million-member DAV,
Disabled American
Veterans, where she helps
to fulfill the promises
to the men and women
who served while spending
time with her family,
including her son,
six-year-old Max.
Thank you all so much
for joining us today.
I'm so honored to be here with
such empowered women veterans.
Each of you has had
such different paths
to the military and motherhood.
Military mothers come in all
different shapes and sizes.
They're mothers while
wearing their uniform.
They may also be spouses
running a household,
and they may also
watch with pride
as their children raise
their right hand in service
to this nation, or in the case
of Candy Martin, did all three.
Candy, you were a WAC when
you met your husband Ed.
Can you walk us through what it
was like to run the household
by yourself, while
serving in the reserves,
and then to switch
roles with your husband
when your kids were teenagers?
>> Candy Martin: Thank
you for that question Liz.
But before I answer I want to
thank the Library of Congress,
and more particularly the
Veterans History Project
for bringing our stories
forward and helping
to educate everybody that's
out there listening today.
It was kind of challenging
when we had our first child,
and then the second one,
and then the third one,
and then the fourth one,
and those four little
darlings were born in five
and a half years, so we did
have a very busy household.
And I was an Army Reserve
solider at the time,
Ed being an active duty solider,
it was really a challenge
in finding that balance, and him
being gone quite a bit TD-wise,
things like that, and just the
duty that came along with it.
It was a time when I
learned that as we would PCS
around that I had to find
my own support system,
whatever that support
system was,
whether it was the neighbors,
whether it was the
family readiness group,
whether it was our church.
and things like that.
There was one in particular
that comes to mind when I think
about that support
system; her name is Sharon
and her husband was
stationed with my husband.
And because of that, the two
of us got together quite a bit.
Between the two of us, we had
seven children under the age
of 10, and I was pregnant
with our fourth one.
And it was just an amazing trip
that we would do and people,
we would walk in to the
Pizza Hut regularly.
Tuesday nights was our
outing with the kids
and people would just
panic when we would walk
in with these seven children
and I was way pregnant
with that fourth one on the way.
But it was fun.
You had to make the best of it
and that's just the
way that it was.
It was humbling when Ed and I
did the role reversal shift;
he had retired and I was
asked to come on active duty,
so I did, and we did an
absolute role reversal.
The kids were 9, 11,
12, and 14 at the time.
Sometimes I think I got
the better end of the deal
because we had teenagers and
he was the one home with them.
It was challenging at first
in that he would do all the
laundry, and I remember thinking
after six months, the
towels were folded;
they weren't folded how
I would have folded them,
but they were folded and that's
all that really mattered.
So, you had to just make
sure that you looked
at what made a difference,
what was the priorities.
Were the kids happy, were
they healthy, were things--
were they adjusted and were
they doing okay with that?
It was a balance, a balance
that we had to find as a couple
and we had to find as a family,
and a lot of time
management that went into it.
It was really a challenge
sometimes with particularly
when the kids were having to be
for different events throughout
the day time when mom would be
on duty and here would be
that token dad that would be
with the mom roles, with the
neighbor ladies and things,
but it was-- it was challenging,
rewarding, but we're so glad
that we as an army family were
able to accomplish what we did.
Thank you.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing
those stories
and that experience with us.
Mary, Candy spoke about
limited resources around her
and creating her own
network of support.
You served at a different time
and in a different branch.
What was your experience
like with the Air Force?
>> Mary Dever: Well,
the first thing I'd
like to say is thank
you to all the women
that served before I
did and broke down a lot
of these barriers that
I didn't have to face.
Whenever I came in and
told my first doctor
that I was expecting, I had
been trying for a long--
my husband and I had been
trying for a long time,
there was no repercussion.
Everyone was excited.
And I know from talking to other
people that it wasn't always
like that, so I want
to thank all the women
that have come before me and
really knocked down those walls
so that people like
me and the ones
that are still serving
don't have as much pushback
as I know was in the past,
so thank you for that.
For me, for the-- I
was on instructor duty
so I was very much supported,
like I said, by my command.
Some of the issues I did
run into though was I was
in a joint environment.
I was Air Force working
for the Army,
so there were policy
things that I needed
to make sure I understood.
And as I mentioned before, some
of the women that, you know,
had gone through it before,
were really there for me
for that support that Candy
mentioned, and the best piece
of advice I got was to know the
regs, to know what was my right
and what was not, you know.
I knew that every three hours
I was authorized 15 minutes
to go pump, you know, after I
came off of maternity leave.
I was, at the time, we
were allotted six weeks
for maternity leave and I
saved up my personal leave
so that I could take
a total of 10.
Well, my supervisor didn't
like that and wanted to deny it
and I found in there
that that was authorized
and so he couldn't deny it.
So that was, I think the
best piece of advice I got
from other women
that had come before.
Some of the other
struggles, you know,
daycare was really
an issue for me.
I was Fort Meade, you
know, we're in the DMV,
the DC Maryland Virginia area,
the child development
centers are packed,
the waitlist is long.
More advice I'd been
given is to get
on that waitlist
as soon as I could.
Well, I got on the waitlist,
coming off maternity leave
and I was still at like
number 90 on the spot to get
into any of the facilities.
So, I was running around with
my newborn baby in time for me
to be able to go back to work.
So, I mean, that was an issue,
and that led to another issue
as far as because I
wasn't on base and I wasn't
with the child development
center, hours were different.
And so, I remember
one time I was written
up because I wasn't
able to make one
of our wonderful fun
runs early in the morning
because I didn't
have child care.
And they continued to push
back when the CDC opened at,
you know, 600 and I didn't
have that until 6:45.
And so, I mean issues like that
where they didn't
really want to bend.
But they are better, I guess
is what I'm trying to say.
So, I did run into some things,
but I know, for instance,
I think it was 2018, they've
extended maternity leave.
I know that they are working
with like the childcare options,
you can get a stipend if
you have to go off base,
things like that that
were moving forward,
but definitely still some
things that needed to be done.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you Mary.
And thanks for sharing
that advice
for the women who
come after you.
>> Mary Dever: Absolutely.
I was shocked when I was, you
know, two weeks from coming back
from maternity leave and
I didn't have childcare.
And yeah, it got tough.
I lost a lot of money
on deposits trying
to just secure myself
a spot, so.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Well, done.
Thank you.
Rupa, we listened to your
VHP oral history interview
and heard you mention that you
are working to pass your boards
when you were pregnant.
You mentioned how not only
did you have that challenge,
but with your second pregnancy,
it was an uphill battle
with some of your colleagues,
who didn't want to
cut you any slack.
Some even suggested that perhaps
you had gotten pregnant just
to avoid deployment.
What was that like?
>> Rupa Dainer: Thanks for
asking about this and thank you
to the Library of Congress and
the Veterans History Project
for giving us all a chance
to tell our stories in all
of these really important ways.
You know, I was thinking
about this whole panel
and these questions and I
thought sometimes it's going
to sound like I'm doing a lot
of complaining about what it was
like to be a mom
in the military.
And the reality is there's
good and bad with everything
and this is-- it's good to
be able to focus on some
of the challenges that the
military's had so that,
just like, you know, for
Mary, things get better
as things move along
in the future.
So, my experience with
my children were--
was in the mid-early part of
the century, I guess, 2010,
and yeah, I mean people
didn't really suggest
that I got pregnant to
get-- to avoid deployment,
they were super clear.
They said you got pregnant
to avoid deployment.
I mean those words, in that
order, out loud, so it wasn't
like a, you know--
it wasn't subtle.
And I'm not that
subtle a person either.
I think, you know, when you're
in the military you sort
of learn to speak up for
yourself, so what that was
like it had turned out
into being a pretty public,
very unprofessional fight is
what it ended up looking like.
So, you know, I went to the
military medical school,
so I had a lot of years
that I owed the military.
So, folks who were enlisted
maybe you signed a one year
or three year, or even a
four- or five-year commitment.
Coming out of the
military medical school,
you have a seven-year
commitment and that's
after you finished doing
residency training,
which can be anywhere between
three to seven years long,
and mine was about five years.
So, that's 12 years in
the military after I got
out of medical school and
I used to think to myself,
what would I have to do to
avoid deployment in this manner?
I'd have to have more kids
than anyone on this call.
So that's not really-- that's
not really the way to do it,
if you're trying to
avoid deployment.
So, it-- you know,
as a suggestion,
it's silly on its face of it,
but it doesn't really matter;
it's incredibly insulting,
it's degrading.
It immediately invalidates who
you are and what you've given
to our country in the
military, whether it's
by being a great student,
or being a great doctor,
or whatever it is, you
give to the services.
So, yeah, I mean,
I got very upset.
I tried to fight it head on.
I learned a lot of lessons
about how to approach any type
of prejudice or bigotry.
It doesn't really work that
well to fight it head on.
You kind of have to, you
know, be a role model
and have some staying power and
stick with it and show people
over time who you are without
necessarily screaming it
in their faces, like I think
I tried to do early on.
But that was-- it was quite
a lesson that I learned,
both obviously and then
less obviously over time.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks: Thank
you for sharing that Rupa.
I think that a lot
of people can benefit
from hearing your honesty.
And I suspect that
there are a lot of women
who have had those accusations
slung their way, so--
so thank you for sharing that.
>> Rupa Dainer: You're welcome.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
So, deployments
and permanent changes, permanent
change stations or PCS,
are tough on any family,
especially when there
are young kids at home.
Rue, you joined the military
when your son Kenieth
was four years old.
It wasn't long after
training that PCSed
to receive a permanent
change station to Korea.
How did you prepare for that,
what was it like during,
and how did you reconnect after
being gone for almost a year?
>> Rue Mayweather: I'm not
sure there's a way to prepare.
You know, you think
you know but then
when that day comes
it's like, wow.
So that was my wow, you know.
And then to be actually
gone for a year,
you know, the days in between.
So, I did I think what
most mothers would do.
Fortunately, there was a store
in Yongsan called
Victorytown, I think.
It was like one of the more
modern department stores.
They had toys and kind of like
a-- not really like a Dillards,
because they had toys too, but
that store became my friend
and my son's friend because
every chance I got I was there
buying him things, and
you know, we talked a lot.
And I engaged with him
as much as I could,
you know, to stay in his life.
And I think the heartbreak
though was when I came home
and because he had been with
his dad, they had bonded;
I mean they were closer
than ever to begin with.
But what I noticed like
they came to pick me
up at the airport and naturally
he was happy to see me,
but then I noticed like he was
just distant, and I thought,
and that just broke my heart.
But then, you know, being a
quick thinker and ready person
on my feet, I had to
analyze that and just size
up what that was, you know.
Okay, you haven't been here,
he's been with his dad,
you know, and it's not
that he doesn't love you,
you just haven't been her.
And so, I basically just
had to just step back
and allow the love
to regrow with us.
And so, we had this thing
before where we would go
on our little dates and we
would always go either to Sonic
or McDonalds and it would just
be his time and he could talk
about whatever he wanted,
we'd do whatever he wanted,
and we still do that now,
whenever he's in town, you know.
We go to dinner, a movie,
and we eventually rebonded.
But, you know, and it took about
a year for us to reconnect.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Wow, thank you.
That's-- that was so
touching and so beautiful,
and I think so important for so
many women who are experiencing
that to hear, so thank
you for sharing that.
The deployment of military women
with children is a
growing phenomenon.
According to an article
in Military Medicine,
women represent anywhere
from 15% to 20% of all active
and reserve military
members, and more than 40%
of military women have children.
Rupa, I understand that Phoebe
and Aurora were in preschool
when you found out you were
deploying to Afghanistan.
Same question to you, how
did you prepare for that
and what was it like during
and how did you connect
after return?
>> Rupa Dainer: Thank
you for the question.
It's nice to be able to
answer that along with Rue,
being here to kind of
hear her story as well.
I think the first thing I did
was have a little miniature
panic attack where I felt
like I couldn't breathe
and wasn't sure what to do next.
And like Rue, I had to take a
minute and just say to myself,
hold on, you can
think through this.
Something's going to
change, you've got to--
you'll be able to prepare
for this somehow or another
and the kids were two and
four and they did stay
with their dad, who
wasn't used to taking care
of them quite the same way
I was, so that was going
to be a big change
for him as well.
So, I just-- I did everything
I could think of actually.
You know, now we're looking
at a different timeframe,
the internet is just kind
of growing at this point,
so I was able to go on at
that time, very very high,
cutting edge website, Snapfish
and print out a blanket
that had photos of me and the
daughter who I gave the to,
so I made two blankets, one
for each kid, and I printed
out photos and called
it a mommy blanket.
That was like very
forward thinking back then,
because no one else
could do that.
They were like what
website did you go to?
So, I did that.
And I had an amazing
friend at the daycare
that I had my kids at.
Her thing was creating life
stories that was her work,
and she volunteered her
time to me and my family
and we made stories,
little short stories,
kind of like Dora the
Explorer level stories,
where I'd say good morning to
the kids or I'd say good night
and I wished them
a happy holiday
for all the holidays I
knew I'd be gone for,
and they called it
the mommy show
and they would watch
it while I was gone.
And then, you know, at ages two
and four years old they
don't really understand time
very well.
I'm a pediatric
anesthesiologist, I spend a lot
of time with kids and
have a pretty good idea
where they are developmentally.
You could be gone for a day or
a week and it's hard for them
to really quite understand
the length of time.
So, I made them this super big
posterboard that had the days
of the week on the
months that I'd be gone,
with a couple extra months
at the end because, you know,
with deployment you never
know when you're coming home.
So, every day they would cross
off a day and they'd get a kiss,
a Hershey kiss, which
was a kiss from mommy.
So just these things.
I had gifts pre-wrapped
for them so that
at various intervals their
dad would give them a gift
from mommy because they're like
oh look this gift just came
from mommy in Afghanistan,
were I didn't even know
in Afghanistan where
I was going to be.
So, things like that it
seems like I was so prepared.
But that's like the typical, you
know, type A kind of woman thing
to do is to pretend
like you're prepared
and then realize you're
totally not prepared.
So, you go and you're in
country and you're just--
you know, you're
taking care of toddlers,
you guys all know even better
than me how much effort that is
and all of a sudden,
your kids are gone
and you have nothing to do.
Like you're busy, right,
because you're deployed,
but you know how kids are;
they're just constant,
they're constant diapers,
constant food and
constant feeding.
Well now they're gone and
there's nothing to do,
and then you realize like
part of you kind of likes it
because you're exhausted and
it's nice to have a break
and you can sleep all night
long and nobody's crawling
into your bed and saying
your name while you're
in the bathroom.
But then you feel guilty
because now you feel
that you have a break,
and then you cry
and no one else is crying
because you're the
only girl there.
So, there's a lot to kind of
manage and over time you sort
of have to let yourself not
feel guilty and not be ashamed
of how you feel and realize
that this is all normal and look
at the guys; like
I don't know if any
of them are feeling what
I'm feeling, I'm not sure.
And then I came home.
And my daughters also
recognized me at the airport.
One of them threw up,
that was super awesome,
because they were a
little motion sick,
I think from the car ride.
And I think, just like Rue, it
takes people time to get back
in the swing of things
and I looked different
after I came home
from deployment.
I mean, I'll be honest,
the Navy's weight standards
aren't really all that tough,
and prior to leaving I
was on the high end of it.
And when I got home, I had lost
a lot of weight, and it was,
you know, good, I
was in great shape,
but my kids were a little bit
like you look like the lady
in the mommy show,
but 30 pounds lighter.
So, it was a little
hard for them to sort
of understand I was
the same person
and it takes a really long
time, not only to integrate
from being back form deployment
or from another country,
but also, you know, to kind of
get back into that role of mom
and you don't want to push
yourself on someone too fast;
you just have to kind
of let them come to you
and they do eventually.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Wow again.
Great. Thank you
for that honesty.
I think that between
you and Rue,
mothers watching this will just
walk away with some really good,
you know, mothers who are
getting ready to deploy
or may deploy will have
some great lessons learned.
So, thank you both for
what you've just said,
because I think it
matters so much.
So, since the draft
ended in 1973,
being born into a military
family has become a much more
important marker of the
future in the armed forces.
Candy, I have a three-part
question for you.
How did you feel knowing
Tom wanted to join the army?
What was it like
being in the military
at the same time as your son?
And, knowing that he was de--
that he deployed to some
of the same precarious locations
you had just returned from?
>> Candy Martin: Wow, that's
a triple question, isn't it?
It's-- Tom came from a long line
of service and we can go back
through every generation
back to the revolutionary war
that we trace our family's
history of service,
and I was always thankful that
he really wanted to serve.
When he was a little boy,
he was about six years old
and someone gave him a poster
of West Point and it hung
on his bedroom wall, it
was thumbtacked up there
and I thought gosh, gosh, gosh
he's got all these aspirations,
but will it ever come,
and eventually it did.
He spent three years as an
enlisted soldier before he went
to the Academy where
he graduated in 2005.
So, I'm glad that that part
kept up, as far as his fruition
with wanting to be a solider.
He-- when you're a teenage
boy, it's not cool to hang
around your mom, but if your
mom happens to be wearing BDUs
and combat boots it's
pretty cool sometimes.
He used to like it when I
would come to the high school
to pick him up for
certain things or come
for an appointment or anything,
and initially I thought
he's going to be
so embarrassed walking
with me and he wasn't;
he was extremely proud that
I was serving in the military
and he was very very proud when
he took that first step too.
When I think about his service,
I was always in his corner
and championing the idea
that he wanted to serve.
I was so proud that
when he asked me
if I would administer the oath
of office for him to join,
I was thrilled to
be able to do that.
And then later on, when he
received his commission,
I was his first solute,
my being a warrant officer
and him being a brand-new
second lieutenant,
that meant that he
outranked me real quick,
and so that was really
a highlight too
of our time together.
It was really really special.
When I think about-- when
I think about his service
and people would ask me
are you afraid for him.
And I said, no, that's what the
military does is they teach us
to be leaders.
They taught him to be a leader.
He was born to be a leader
and I don't know if that was
because of his--
the way he was born,
the first of our four
children, but he just had
that natural innate
leadership ability behind him
and so I think that
he really did well.
About four years ago I had
a friend call me one day
and her son was preparing
for military service.
He knew that he either wanted to
go one of the service academies
or he wanted to become
a cadet with one
of our military ROTC programs.
And I will tell you that
right now he's getting ready
to graduate next month and
he will be commissioned
as a second lieutenant.
He's with the core cadets
at Texas A and M University.
And when she called me, she
said I want you to talk me
out of this and I want you
to talk him into this--
talk him down and not have
him go into military service,
and I listened to her for
quite a while and I said
to her calmly, I said I just
have a question for you.
And she said, absolutely,
what's the question.
I said if not yours then whose?
Whose child would you be willing
to say raise your right hand
and go ahead and support and
defend the constitution that all
of us enjoy every single day
with the benefits and the rights
and the privileges that we have
for living in this country?
And to this day, that
mom is so thankful
that I actually asked her
that very strange question,
but she's bursting with pride
because of her son is a leader.
And I'm confident to know
that my son died doing
what he believed in.
And it's just-- it
warms my heart to know
that Tom truly was a leader.
There's a quick story I want
to tell you and share with you.
I was deployed, I was in
Iraq and Tom was finishing
up his OBC course;
he was at Fort Knox,
Kentucky in the Armor School,
and he called me in Iraq
and said, mom, I got
the drape reward today.
And I said, oh honey, I'm
so incredibly proud of you.
That is just fabulous.
I'm really really proud of you
and I just could imagine
he was bursting with pride.
And I hung up afterwards that
short phone call thinking,
what's the drape reward.
I had no idea what
the drape reward was.
And I soon forgot about it and
it was a couple of years later
when Tom was killed
in action and all
of his personal belongings came
home and in the box that came
with all of his belongings
was the coveted drape reward.
And I looked at it and
I thought, oh my gosh.
Well then, I Googled it
and realized what it was.
It was the leadership award for
the Armor Officer Basic Course.
And I thought, here is my son,
who just received this top honor
and boy I felt like the
worst mother in the world.
I had no idea what it was.
But I do remember thinking back
to my cheerleader moment where,
yes, you did really really great
and mommy is so proud of you.
But here he was a solider,
something that I had had for all
of my life and I was so glad
that I thought back that time.
I wish that he were here now
so that I could tell him
how proud I really was,
but I think he always knew it
and that's a really
good thing, so.
I was proud being a
solider, proud being a mom,
and proud being a
mom of a solider.
Thank you.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks: Wow.
Thank you for sharing that
beautiful and touching story,
and I'm pretty sure he knows
how proud you were of him.
So many powerful and
empowered mothers here.
I just am so touched.
Thank you all.
This is-- it's just wonderful
to hear your stories.
Rue, your son Kenieth also
deployed just after you
to a close by location in Iraq.
Do you have some piece of
mind knowing he was close by
and can you share about a very
special Mother's Day you were
able to cook up?
>> Rue Mayweather: Yes.
Kenieth and I always spent
Mother's Day together,
or we tried to.
So, when we deployed to Iraq, he
was in Taji, I was in Baghdad.
And so, unknown to me, he was
planning to come to Baghdad,
while I was planning
to go to Taji.
So, I had picked up
the phone and I had--
I was coordinating with
his CSM to travel to Taji.
And so, I-- my plan
actually was executed.
So, I actually arrived in
Taji; his CSM picked me up.
And so, his S3 or someone told
him that they needed to talk
to him, like very sternly.
So, he was like I couldn't
imagine what they wanted
to talk to me about.
So, in a way he comes in the
room and I'm standing there
and he's just like [gasps].
And so, he told his
commander, she's always
up to something [laughs].
And so that was great.
And so, after that,
you know, we were able
to spend Father's Day together,
because I was there
still in June.
And also, later on,
he got promoted while I was
there, so I got to pin him.
And if we could travel back,
when he got commissioned,
I was able to pin him, give
him his first solute also.
So, yes, so that was wonderful.
That was wonderful.
And while I was there
visiting him for Mother's Day,
he is an Apache fighter
pilot, so he just took me
on a little tour and showed
me the Apache and how it works
and all the things that
was of interest to him.
So that was really good.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing that.
You know, it just goes to show,
no matter how old they get
or how much rank they have,
they can't outsmart
their mothers [laughs].
Mary, you transitioned
out of the military
as a young mom with
a one-year-old.
I did the same thing
with the army in 1980.
My daughter and I arrived
at midnight at Fort Dix
and no place to stay and
no plans for the next day.
With no plan for my daughter,
it was even suggested that I had
to [inaudible] and be-- and
show up at 0500 for formation,
just like everyone else.
What was your out-process like?
Were there any transitional
programs
to help you find your
footing as a new civilian mom
and was it hard for you to
reconcile the societal roles
as caregivers, mothers, and
wives with where you are?
>> Mary Dever: Thank
you for that question.
My experience is a little bit
different because I stayed
in the area so I
didn't have to move.
But I will say I had a
colonel and my son has autism
and so I had decided I was
right at that 10-year mark,
to get out, rather than
continue on and retire.
And I received a bit of pushback
and things like that, but --
when I went to the colonel
and I explained the situation
and I told him about DAV
because I had some friends
that I had served with who
had gone on to work for DAV,
and I actually had a job offer
letter from that organization
to continue after
my terminal leave.
And so that colonel
became very supportive,
knowing that I had a plan
and things like that.
And so, the rest of my
out-processing went fairly well.
I think the biggest challenge
I faced was that I don't--
there's not a lot of preparation
for all veterans really,
but separating when you have
that young family and things
like that, as far as the
mental toll that it takes,
the transition, the-- just
your life, whether you stay
in the same area or not,
it's completely different
and there was a lot of issues
with that, issues getting care,
issues just kind of dealing with
some of the things that you push
down when you're active duty
and that you just, you know,
the thing that my chief
always loved to tell me,
shut up and color, you know.
You can only shut up and
color for so many years,
and then you get out and
you have to deal with it
and there wasn't anything there
to kind of help that along.
So, I think that
that was a challenge.
And I don't think that's
specific to, you know,
motherhood or things like that;
I think that's any
veteran leaving service
after however many
years they've been in,
whether they did a whole
career or one tour.
So, I think that that's
something that we need
to continue to work on.
I will say, again, with the
organization that I do work for,
but they were very helpful
as far as helping me
to get my benefits, helping me
to understand what I needed,
what I had earned, and helping
me understand that as a woman--
a woman veteran, I was
entitled to the same benefits
as my male counterparts.
And over time, I've
learned that a lot
of women don't actually take
advantage of those programs.
They don't identify as veterans.
They don't wear it as proudly.
Often times they're assumed
to not be the veteran
if a family walks in.
My son's father, he was in the
army, so we were both veterans.
But it was rarely brought
up that I was the veteran,
you know, and so
having, you know,
we talked about support systems,
having that support system
around that had gone through
it before was helpful,
but I think that there's still
a lot to be done when it comes
to changing-- changing the
dialogue around mothers
in the military and
women in the military.
And once we cross
that bridge and get
out into the civilian life, what
support is there to help us make
that transition and how
can we help each other?
Because I had a friend
who got out
and I remember her telling me
that she'd started this new job
and she'd gone in and she'd,
you know, been happy and ready
to work and, you know, she
met another woman there
and she said, okay, are we best
friends now because, you know,
women in the military,
whenever we go on assignment,
we immediately click with each
other, and then we're there
for each other, you
know, just like that,
you know, no questions asked.
And she says the lady kind
of looked at her crazy
and said I just met you and,
you know, she's thinking,
well if this were a
deployment we'd suddenly be,
you know, hip to hip.
So, I think that we
need more support there,
especially as people
get out and go to places
that maybe don't have a strong
military or veteran presence,
because it is psychologically
challenging
to make that transition.
Without going too far
into details, you know,
I mean my life has
obviously completely changed,
but I mean the relationship
that I had
in my marriage, I'm
now divorced.
There was just a lot of things
there that I wasn't prepared
or wasn't expecting
to have to deal
with as a young mom
starting-- not starting over,
but starting a new chapter
without that kind of knowledge
or preparation, I guess
is a good way to say it.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you.
I think you've touched on
some really important topics,
transition being one of them.
And that's a difficult
time and the realities
that women veterans face, not
being identified, etc. So,
and thank you for talking
about earned benefits
that women veterans earn.
I appreciate hearing that
as well, Mary, so thank you
for what-- everything
that you just said.
Again, really important stuff
for all the women veterans
who are watching this recording.
Now I have a few questions
for all of you and so please,
any of you can feel
free to answer.
The first question, what
challenges or advantages--
Mary, you gave us
a great segway.
What challenges or advantages
have we yet to discuss?
Candy?
>> Candy Martin: I
think the challenges
that we haven't really
discussed,
Mary hit on it a little bit
with where do we go from here?
Where-- how do we get
the VA to recognize
that there really are
women veterans out there?
How do we get, not only the
big VA, but our local VAs?
And I've had some challenges
with that specifically.
And not only that but
the general public.
I just-- when we would
PCS around, people would--
we would meet a couple at church
and they would automatically
look at my husband and say,
and tell me, what do you do?
And Ed would very proudly say,
I'm a kept man; I
follow her around.
And so, it was really kind of
challenging for us to say that,
yes, women can be that leader
of the family bread money
that comes in and that's okay.
And that's really a
challenge, and I don't know
that we will ever get there,
but I think with programs
such as this that get the
word out, that there are women
with unique challenges,
women who serve our country
with very unique challenges,
and it doesn't stop
when you take the uniform off,
so I think we need to continue
with these type of education.
Great question.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you.
Mary?
>> Mary Dever: I would
just piggyback off
of what Candy said.
We've made significant progress
over the last few years.
We-- the passage of the
Deborah Sampson Act that went
through the last Congress,
helps incorporate a lot
of these things that
we've talked about today,
including education and
resources for women veterans.
But one of the things, whenever
we talk about motherhood
and things like that is a
recent study came up that only
about 11% of the [inaudible]
have maternity care.
And so, if we want women to
take advantage of those benefits
and those earned, you
know, earned healthcare,
we need to kind of bridge that.
And if they have to go out in
the community, we need more
of a continuity of
care, a communication,
electronic health records,
things like that, to make sure
that the whole veteran
is being cared for,
and that includes maternity
care or fertility care,
women specific needs that
sometimes aren't addressed
at these local facilities,
and then if they're sent
out into the communities
there's no communication.
So, I think that that's
something that, as Candy said,
as long as we continue
this conversation
and keep it moving forward
and educating other people
around that to know
what needs to be done,
I think that we'll see
significant increases.
But with, you know,
women who serve
in the military have a higher
risk of at-risk pregnancy.
You know, a lot of
times with PTSD or MST
or substance abuse issues.
And so, if they are-- if they
do need to go into the community
for that maternity
care, there needs to be
that education element
to help make sure
that everything is
covered for that veteran.
>>
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Rue and Rupa, do you
have anything to add?
>> Rupa Dainer: You know what,
I don't think I have
a whole lot to add.
I definitely just
was nodding along
when I heard the stories
from Candy and Mary.
I think I was telling someone
on the phone the other day,
might have been Kerry.
When my now fiancé and
I go to the Home Depot,
Home Depot has a 10% military
discount, which I love
and you know you got to
show them your DE 214
or your veteran card or
something like that to get it.
Well, my fiancé is six foot
four and was in the army
for 10 years and maintains
a pretty short haircut
and is a very fit man,
and we walk in to get
that military discount they
just like they're falling all
over themselves to
give it to him,
like he definitely doesn't have
to show any ID or
any kind of card.
When I ask for it, I
feel like a criminal.
So, and I have to show, you
know, the proof of service.
Of my ex-husband,
my fiancé, and me,
all three of us have
served in the military.
My ex-husband was a United
States Naval Academy graduate.
And of the three of
us I'm the only one
who deployed to a war zone.
The rest of them sat at home.
And so, and yet I feel
like I'm the one who has
to prove it all the time,
so definitely we have
a long way to go.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you.
Rue?
>> Rue Mayweather: Yes.
I would mention sexual
assault in the military
because it's still
alive and well
and growing like an octopus.
And if I could be allowed
to mention that's what my lady's
book is about, In Her Boots.
And the other thing is I would
say senior leadership and--
senior leadership
receiving veterans' benefits.
I guess if I can
say it that way.
And I'll use myself
for as an example.
It isn't that maybe that I
didn't have time to go to take--
to go and take care of
myself, but if just--
you can't do it as regularly
as your subordinates can,
because you're busy
managing and taking care
of other people and
other things.
And so, it does become an
issue later on, you know.
So, I would-- my goal or
my wish is that the people
at VA would recognize that.
But I know if it isn't
documented they don't know it
and, you know, if it isn't
in black and white, you know,
it didn't happen, but I just
wish there was some common sense
there, you know.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you so much.
So, next question.
Do you think that serving
in the military made
you a better mother
and did being a mother make
you a better service member?
Rupa?
>> Rupa Dainer: I think being a
mother makes me a better service
member because I've noticed
that in every leadership
job I've ever had,
including the one
I currently have,
it's like having all
these extra children.
And so, you learn
how to manage kids
of very many different ages,
even some in their 50s,
when it comes to this stuff.
So, and the same lessons
I learned with my kids
when they were little
or teenagers,
I kind of carry over
into my work.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you.
All the hands went
up at one time.
>> Rue Mayweather: Okay.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Rue still has hers up,
so I'll let her go.
>> Rue Mayweather: I would say
being a mom made me a biter
leader, you know, because
at the end of the day,
like with my son, you know,
everybody wants attention,
everybody wants to be heard,
everybody's view is important
and which it is, you know.
So, what I always tell my
folk, like when you come
to me the first time and
you don't get my attention,
if it's really important to
me come back to me, you know;
come back to me again,
because there are
so many things going on, top
level, that is important.
I'm not saying that what
you need isn't important,
but I'm just-- my
focus is elsewhere,
so just come back
to me, you know.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Excellent.
Thank you.
Candy?
>> Candy Martin: I think
back about my role, my life,
I couldn't have been a
solider without being a mom,
and I couldn't have been a
mom without being a solider,
so for me they went
hand in hand.
But I do remember back when
I'd been at about the 19-
or 20-year mark and I had
soldiers that were working
for me under my supervision
and they had not even--
they weren't even born
when I first enlisted
into the Women's Army
Corp, and I thought, gosh,
that means I'm really
really old.
But they looked at me with
respect, they looked at me
with that mother
figure with, gosh,
maybe she does know
what she's talking
about because she's
been doing this longer
than we have been doing this.
A funny story that
happened one time,
this was about three years ago.
I was asked to be a key note
speaker at a dining out,
and there was about 900
soldiers that were there
and I think this had
been the first dining
out that they had had in
years and years and years.
It was the [inaudible].
And they wouldn't stop
talking during all
of the key introductions,
the [inaudible] commander
couldn't get them to stop
or the brigade commander
couldn't get them to stop,
the command [inaudible]
major was trying
to get them to hush down.
And finally, I was introduced
and when I took the steps
up to the dais I thought,
gosh, what am I going to do?
They're not going to hear
a word that I have to say
because they won't quit talking.
So, I just stood at the
microphone and looked
across this whole sea of
900 young solider faces
and said it's a mom
thing, I'm going to wait
until they all get quiet.
And eventually that quietness
just rippled through the room
and you could have heard a
pin drop and then I was able
to deliver my remarks to them.
And afterwards the brigade
commander came up and said,
I never thought about
doing it like that.
You're probably right, it was
a mom thing, and it worked.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
It's so true.
Mary?
>> Mary Dever: Well, I
became a mother at the end
of my Air Force career,
so I would actually say
that I think my military service
has made me a better mother
in some ways.
I remember very early on,
a mentor talking to me
about triaging your
priorities, you know,
what needs to happen now and
how can you overcome this now?
What can you do within
your control to, you know,
take care of business,
basically?
And so, I remember when my
son was diagnosed with autism,
rather than, you know--
any reaction is okay,
but I remember I just kind
of took some of those skills
that I had learned through
being a leader in the military
and saying, okay, this is
the information I need,
this is how I need to get it,
this is who I need to talk to,
this is how I need
to document it.
You know, you learn
all of those things
to get business done first, and
then kind of deal with it later.
And I think in a lot of ways,
especially having a six year old
little boy during a pandemic,
it has made me a better
mother as far as, you know,
keeping things going
during Zoom kindergarten
and healthcare visits and things
like that that organization
and that, I don't want to
say the word discipline,
but that love and that
consistency that I had form some
of my better leaders in the
military I've been able to kind
of use that, because there are
those leaders that, you know,
they're strict and they're
to the point, but you know
that they care about
you and your well-being,
and that's how I feel that
has impacted me as a mother.
I feel like I'm able
to kind of bring that.
My son knows that he
is my son and stars,
but he also knows don't
mess with me, you know,
if I've said this
or I've said that.
And I've had to pull
that out, you know,
at certain points during his
care for advocacy reasons
and for, you know, the school
board and things like that.
And so, I think that experience
in the military and learning how
to advocate for those around
me has really helped me
in my journey through
motherhood, so far,
my early six years in.
So, I am grateful for
that in a lot of ways,
but I think the biggest way
is knowing how to advocate
for my son and for his needs,
just like I was shown how
to by leaders that I had,
and in turn hope I was able
to do whenever I was
in that position.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Excellent.
Again, great advice
for those watching.
Thank you.
So, the last question,
any advice
or knowledge you
would like to impart?
There's been some great
stuff today too, but this--
I know that we're going to wrap
it up with some good stuff.
Any advice or knowledge
you would like to impart
for anyone watching this panel,
whether it is a mom considering
joining, someone on active duty,
a parent ready for her
son or daughter to deploy,
or a civilian simply watching?
Who wants to go first?
Mary.
>> Mary Dever: I'm
always ready, I guess.
I would go back to what I said
at the very beginning
is know the regulations,
know the policies, know your
rights, and find your support.
Find your support system,
and that might come
from somewhere unexpected,
but get yourself
out of your comfort zone
and learn what you should
be advocating for yourself
for because some
well-intentioned people might
steer you in the wrong direction
and, you know, you find yourself
in a position where you're not
where you need to be as a mother
or as a caregiver or as,
you know, a family member.
So, know what those roles are
and what those policies are
and how they apply to you
and how you can enforce them
and follow them and take care of
yourself and your family and get
that support system that
you need, because none
of us can do it alone,
none of us can.
No matter how strong or
independent we are we need
that support system and it's
there, you just have to find it.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Excellent.
Thank you, Mary.
Rue.
>> Rue Mayweather: Yes, I would
agree on the support system.
That was-- that was
invaluable to me for 36 years.
But I would also add to
know that you are value--
that you have value,
that you are invaluable,
and for the females not
to lose your femininity.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thank you.
Thank you, Rue.
Rupa and Candy, would
you like to add anything?
Yes, Candy.
>> Candy Martin: I'm
trying to unmute.
It's-- that's a great
question to finish up with
and I love what Rue said,
to not lose your femininity.
That's so-- that's so key.
Even though we are women that
are serving today, I think back
to my own basic training when
I was in Women's Army Corp
and we had poise and
etiquette classes;
that was that they thought
was important at the time.
And we had Max Factor
makeup classes.
It was kind of a crazy
time for the military,
but that's what they taught us.
They don't teach that anymore,
but it is important not
to lose being that
feminine side.
I also think it's
important to let women know
that it's okay to be emotional.
Not all the time, not
fanatically emotional,
but it's okay to show
emotion and that just shows
that you are a woman,
you are a service member,
and you can still remain
professional while you're also
showing that emotion
or non-emotion.
It's a good thing.
Make sure that when you do
make mistakes, and we all do,
that you're okay to admit that
and learn from your mistakes.
And we all do, and don't be
afraid of making those mistakes.
Just like I think Mary's the one
that said get out there and get
after it, and just
be what you can be.
Be proud. There are not many
women in the military today.
I think the number is
like three million women
who have ever raised their
hand to serve, to support
and defend our constitution.
And I will tell you that
I'm extremely proud to say
that I'm a solider for life
and I wish that everybody had
that same feeling that I do.
Remain proud.
Thank you.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Thanks Candy.
Rupa?
>> Rupa Dainer: You
know, I would say,
just like what Mary said,
find your support system,
but find a role model.
Find somebody that you can
look to, whether it's a man
or a woman, who you
can look to to be
like if that's what
you want to do.
And if you can't find a
role model, be a role model.
Just do whatever it is that
you think your dream is,
because the one thing I've
learned over this short time
on Earth I've had is
that as cutting edge
as I thought I was 10 years
ago, you'd be surprised how
in just a few years
everyone agrees with you,
how all of a sudden everything
that you thought the Max
Factor makeup class was stupid,
it is and they quit
teaching it, right.
And so, you know, eventually
time will catch up with you,
so don't let what's going
on around you slow you down.
Be your own role model.
>> Elizabeth Estabrooks:
Love that.
I love that.
And I would-- I think that all
of this has been
really good advice.
Thank you.
And I would re-emphasize
the know your rights.
I think that is so important.
Know your rights.
I talk to women.
They tried to force me to
discharge but I knew my rights,
I knew they couldn't throw me
out because I was pregnant.
And I talk to a lot of
women today who are still--
there are still attempts to
coerce them or force them
to discharge because they're
pregnant and I always say
to women, know your
rights, that's so important.
And, you know, wrapping
up, I couldn't--
again, I couldn't agree more
with all of the brilliant things
that you've said today
that people hopefully
have been taking notes.
There was a 2010 DOD report that
let us know that since 2001,
over two point one million
American men and women
in uniform have deployed
in support
of the various post 9/11
Middle East conflicts;
19% of them have been women.
The number of women
enlisting is growing,
outpacing the number
of men enlisting.
Approximately 58% of women
veterans are parents,
11% are single parents.
We must acknowledge that many
of these individuals
are our newest group
of incoming veterans.
They're the mothers,
the wives, the warriors,
and we need to listen and
learn from their experiences,
just as we listened today
and learned from yours.
I hope this Mother's Day
each of you watching thinks
about the women veterans
in your lives.
Ask them to share their story
with you for the Library
of Congress Veterans History
Project so we can all learn
from their memories and
continue to build better futures
for our next generation.
On behalf of the VA Center for
Women Veterans, our panelists
and the Veterans History
Project, thanks for watching
and we wish all of
you, your mothers,
and mother figures a
very happy Mother's Day.