>> Carla Hayden: Hello, I'm
Carla Hayden, the Librarian
of Congress, and I am
thrilled to be here today
with Lupita Nyong'o, the
author, Oscar winning actress,
producer and activist.
And we're here to talk
about Lupita's number one New
York Times best selling book
for young people, Sulwe.
It's about a little girl who
is unhappy with her looks.
But eventually she learns
to appreciate her beauty.
And I think that's a theme
we can all relate to.
We all go through periods
where we're unhappy
with our appearance.
So, Lupita, what inspired
you to write this book?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: Well,
my own life inspired
me to write this book.
When I was young, I was
very much like Sulwe.
I didn't really like
my dark skin.
I had a younger sister who
was lighter skinned than me.
And the people in my world
would always coo and ka
on how beautiful
her light skin was.
And it made me believe that
my skin wasn't as beautiful
because nobody said
anything about it.
And so I went through a
period when I really didn't
like myself, and I tried
the things that Sulwe tries
in the book, like
rubbing off my skin
and praying for lighter skin.
But then when I grew a
little older and I started
to see people like me
on magazines and on TV,
people being called
beautiful that looked like me,
it changed my mind about
how I felt about my skin.
And so I wanted to write a
book for kids to learn how
to love themselves a
little sooner than I did.
>> Carla Hayden: And she
even prays to God to ask
for a miracle when she
wishes for lighter skin.
Could you read that part to us?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: Yes.
With a stomachache,
she went to bed early
and turned to God for a miracle.
Dear Lord, why do I
look like midnight
when my mother looks like dawn?
Please make me as fair
as the parents I'm from.
I want to be beautiful.
Not just to pretend.
I want to have daylight.
I want to have friends.
If you hear me, my Lord,
and would like to comply,
may I wake up as bright
as the Sun in the sky?
Amen.
>> Carla Hayden: It's
heartbreaking to hear that.
And you say in your
author's notes
that you had a similar
experience when you were young.
And so what changed your
mind about yourself?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: Well, it
was a slow process to learning
that I was beautiful
just the way I am.
But I remember when
I was a teenager,
this model called Alek
Wek came onto the scene.
And she was on catwalks
and she went on Oprah,
which I watched religiously.
And Oprah called her beautiful.
And I was stunned because
she was as dark as I was,
if not darker, and she had a lot
of the same features as I did.
And here was Oprah, a woman that
I adored, who taught me so much,
telling me that this
woman was beautiful.
So, it made me think, again,
about how I saw my own skin.
And obviously also my mom.
My mom always told
me I was beautiful,
even when I didn't believe her.
But I think all those things
added together [inaudible].
>> Carla Hayden: And the issue
not being happy with the color
of your skin doesn't
affect just girls.
Right? Boys can feel
just as awkward.
But maybe they don't
talk about it.
And they call this colorism.
So, how would you define it?
And how are boys affected too?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: I
would define colorism
as the preference for
lighter skin in a nutshell.
The idea that someone's
skin determines their value
to others.
And boys experience it too.
I have a nephew who has,
is darker complected
than his sister, and he
recently said to his mom
that he didn't think he was
handsome because he was darker.
So, I think, though, it's a
little more subtle in boys
because there's not as much
emphasis on what they look like,
you know, we're not always,
I think girls hear a little
bit more, you're so pretty,
you're so beautiful, or not.
Whereas boys, I think we credit
them with other things other
than their appearance.
So, the effect of colorism can
be hidden from us, from them.
>> Carla Hayden: And I love the
words you wrote for this book.
I think they're inspirational
for all young people.
And also the beautiful,
beautiful illustrations.
Vashti Harrison is the artist.
So, how did you come
to work with her?
And did you have an
image in your mind
about what this beautiful
young lady would look like?
Or was it an image
of the artist?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: You
know, I knew that I wanted
to work with a black woman.
That was my ideal situation,
because I felt that that would,
the spiritual intention of
this book would be carried
through with a black woman,
and the black illustrator.
And I didn't know what I
wanted Sulwe to look like.
I, I was open.
But I did know that I wanted
the artist to have a really,
really good grasp of light.
Because this is about
brightness.
And I wanted someone who could
capture the light and the dark
in really, really vibrant ways.
And I saw Vashti's work
on, first on Instagram,
and then on Pinterest.
I was creating a Pinterest
board and trying to figure
out what exactly
I was looking for.
And I just kept coming back
to Vashti Harrison's work.
So, then I thought, well, there
she is, let's try and get her.
>> Carla Hayden: And did you
interact much with her, Vashti?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: You know,
in the book world I learned,
this is, this was
our first book,
so I learned a lot
in this process.
In the world of book
making, the writer
and the illustrator don't
necessarily ever talk
to each other.
They don't have a
direct connection.
We work through the
artistic director.
But I felt I needed to meet
her before we started the
whole thing.
So, we actually had lunch
together before she embarked
on the book.
And we got a good
sense of each other.
I think that was a
really good icebreaker,
because I wanted her to, I just
wanted to connect to the spirit.
You know? And then we
spoke of a couple of times
as we were making the book.
And I asked, so that she
could just, I just wanted
to speak directly to
her, and, you know,
hopefully she could hear
the uncertainty in my voice,
and also the curiosity as
well, and that could translate
into her illustration.
I'm very, very happy I did that.
>> Carla Hayden: It seems to
have made such a difference too,
that interaction, because
the book is beautiful.
And it makes, want to
talk about your childhood.
You were born in Mexico City,
but you were raised in Kenya.
So, what's the story
behind that?
>> Lupita Nyong'o: Well, my
father was in south exile
in Mexico, and he was
teaching at a university there,
so I was born in
their last year there.
And then I moved back
home before I turned one,
like right after I turned
one we moved back home.
So, my childhood, all
I remember is Kenya.
And, yeah, but I have this
Mexican name, so I always felt
like I belonged somewhere
else also.
And I finally went to Mexico
when I was 16 to learn Spanish.
>> Carla Hayden: Wow.
And then your career in film,
if we could just talk a
little bit about that.
You won an American Award
for your very first
film, 12 Years a Slave.
So, how did winning an Oscar
for your first film,
what did that mean?
>> Lupita Nyong'o:
Ooh, winning an Oscar
for my first film was extremely
exciting, also extremely scared,
because it meant that I had
somehow reached the pinnacle
of my career at the
very beginning.
And I, I worried that I didn't
know, where do you go from here,
you know, if I'm already,
I've already gotten the
biggest award, what do I do
with the rest of my career,
and I found myself really
doubting my own skills,
you know, and my ability
to stay, stay on top.
But what I quickly discovered
is that I had to continue
to allow myself to risk failure
because it was that attitude
that got me the 12 Years
a Slave job to begin with.
And so I needed to reacquaint
myself with that kind
of daring way of living and not
worrying about what people think
of me and be committing
to how much I love acting
and getting back to that.
>> Carla Hayden: I don't know
how many of our listeners saw
that film, but I have
no doubt that millions
of young people have seen
your wonderful performances
in Star Wars and Black Panther.
And if you could
tell a little bit
about your experience playing
the spy in Black Panther.
You even learned a
new language, I hear.
>> Lupita Nyong'o: I did.
I had to learn Korean
for that film,
which was a challenge I
didn't know I would have
to face in my life.
But, and I also had to learn
a new accent as well for it.
It was a lot of fun to be in
Black Panther, I have to admit,
because we knew we were
doing something different
and something that
could have the potential
to really resonate
with the culture.
And now we see how it
has shifted the culture
in so many ways.
And it's a really humbling
thing to recognize the power
of the work we do as
storytellers and actor
and what a ripple effect
it can have in the world.
>> Carla Hayden: And
speaking of a ripple effect,
do you have plans to write
another book for young people?
Because your first time with
this has been such a success.
>> Lupita Nyong'o:
Well, you know,
I really enjoyed the
process of writing Sulwe.
It was not easy.
It took me a very long time
to write a very short story.
But it was worth it.
I love what, what all the
sweat and tears yielded.
And so, yes, I do
want to write more
for young readers and children.
>> Carla Hayden: Oh, good,
because with this, we're running
out of time, and I just have to
thank you, though, for spending
so much time with us right now,
because I've enjoyed
our conversation.
And before I conclude,
I want to tell everyone
that your book has
received recognition
from the Children's
Africana Book Awards.
And if you go to the link here,
you'll see all of
the award winners.
So, thank you, again, Lupita,
thank you for bringing
this story to light.
>> Lupita Nyong'o: Thank
you so much for having me.
It has been an honor.