>> Eduardo Soares: One example of corruption case involving a former Brazilian president was a criminal conviction confirmed by the superior courts. All decisions were unknown by the Federal Supreme Court, apparently for the lack of jurisdiction of the tribe war. And ultimately, the most financially resourceful a defendant is, the more he or she has access to the many legal maneuvers available during a criminal case. The idea to the later conclusion of the case for as much as time enforcement to the statute of limitation was. And the person goes unpunished. If the Federal Supreme Court changed its understanding regarding when a person -- when a convicted person should be -- finally be incarcerated and serve his or her time. To discuss these issues, the Law Library has invited this distinguished -- a distinguished panel of guests. Mr. Leonardo Augusto de Andrade Cezar dos Santos, a public prosecutor for the State of Espirito Santo, who holds a law degree from the Catholic University of El Salvador and a master's degree in corruption and the rule of law from the University of Salamanca. He is currently doing his PhD thesis on the rule of law and global governance, also at the University of Salamanca. Mr. Santos was a visiting researcher at the Federal Judicial Center in Washington D.C. in 2016. And he's a member of the International Association of Prosecutors. Mr. Henrique de Almeida Freire Gonçalves, a public defender for the State of Parana, who holds a law degree from the Pontifical Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro and a master's degree in constitutional law through the Center [inaudible] Brazil. Mr. Goncalves is a specialist in [inaudible] criminal law, [inaudible], and a specialist in public law at the University of Veiga de Almeida. And finally, Mr. [inaudible] Fausto Martin De Sanctis, a federal appellate judge at the Federal Regional Tribunal for the Third Region. De Sanctis graduating in law from the Center [foreign language spoken] is a specialist in civil procedural law the University of Brazil, has a PhD in criminal law from the University of Sao Paulo, and is a professor and the University of Saint Jude, and the National Institute of Rhetoric Studies. He specialize in legislation to combat [inaudible] and white collar crimes and has written many books on the subject, which can be found in the collection of the Law Library of Congress. This simplified diagram shows the design of the Brazilian judiciary for a criminal case. At the State level on the left side of the diagram, a criminal case starts in the Trial Courts. Appeals then are heard by the Justice Tribunals of the states, and depending on the subject matter being appealed, the case will go either to the Superior Tribunal of Justice or the Federal Supreme Court. On the right-hand side at the federal level, the State starts at the Federal Trial Courts. Appeals are heard by the Federal Regional Tribunals and as a last resort, reach the Federal Supreme Court. The legal remedies of criminal case, general speaking, includes appeals and embargos. According to the Code of Criminal Procedure, an appeal, which in part as we call [foreign language spoken], may be filed within five days of final decisions on conviction or acquittal issued by a Trial Court judge. Appeal may be filed either in relation to the entire court decision or in relation to part of it. [Inaudible] embargos, or [foreign language spoken] may be imposed, again, decisions made by the Tribunals, the Chambers of Panels, within two days from that publication, where there is an ambiguity, obscurity, contradiction, or omission in the decision. Appeals and embargos, [foreign language spoken], I'm just emphasizing how we say it in Portugal because it may sound like the same. What is an appeal? What's an embargo? That's why to make it perfectly clear what we are talking about in this case, are judged by Tribunals of Justice, their chambers or panels, according to jurisdiction established in the laws of judicial organization. So, after all the remedies at the tribunals have been exhausted, there is the possibility of finding an extraordinary appeal with the Federal Supreme Court and a special appeal with the Superior Tribunal of Justice. From the moment of filing such an appeal, it is no longer to possible -- no longer possible to discuss perlative questions or the defendant's guilt, and no evidence will be reexamined in accordance with decision number 279 of the Federal Supreme Court and decision number seven of the Superior Tribunal of Justice. I now turn the presentation over to Mr. Santos, who will discuss the enforcement of convictions and these -- and the issues of impunity. Welcome, Mr. Santos. Why does it seem so difficult to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil? >> Mr. Leonardo Augusto de Andrade Cezar dos Santos: Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. For me, it's a great pleasure to bring legislation on with my colleagues to the American people. First of all, we have to bear in mind that in Brazil, there is a fundamental premise in the penal system. This premise says that the State [inaudible] that oppresses it. In a judicial constitutional system, fundamental rights are the lighthouse of public policies. Nevertheless, courts are still deciding [inaudible], and yet, we continue to be under military regime, subject to the will of the authority that do not respect human rights. Under this premise, many steps [inaudible] and postpone a final decision, including no peace [inaudible]. Moreover, this premise has led to the creation of a penal system designed to curb the punitive power of history. One way to diminish this punitive power was to create difficult to enforce a criminal conviction, whether with more lenient laws or, mainly, through judicial decisions. People adapt in the system, and we need to provide answers so there's a society. The judiciary has appropriate some legislative activity and made decisions that sounds more like laws that regulate many aspect of life, which should have been established through the legislative process. Because of this judicial activism and its inclination to the premise that the State, this inclination of evil that oppress the citizen in this era has become more powerful than ever as an instrument to avoid enforcement of criminal convictions. >> Eduardo Soares: And let me ask you, is there an impunity problem in the country? >> Mr. Leonardo Augusto de Andrade Cezar dos Santos: And that's a great question because impunity is one of the biggest problems in [inaudible] all the halls [inaudible]. There should be a strong response for these things. In Brazil, as explained by the recent published Atlas of the organization of the Institute of Applied Economic Research, less than 10% of the criminal investigations are concluded. In the universe, where all the legal maneuvers to avoid enforcement of a [inaudible] collectivist coupled with the lack of structure required for law enforcement officials to work efficiently, impunity is almost a certainty. As a result, there is a decrease in the credibility of the State. And if they -- it is possible to see an increase in the economical and even political power of criminals. Unfortunately, these are all ingredients for a chaos recipe. And now, let's talk a little bit about the monopoly of the legitimated violence. The states monopolize the legitimated violence. This quote, said by a German sociologist Max Weber, summarize how the State has [inaudible] created the violence on people that used to solve conflicts by themselves. Violence [inaudible] are now carried out through a loss of democratic [inaudible]. The expropriation of conflicts makes the State responsible for the social classification. To keep the society [inaudible] requires a strong firm conduct because violence is just resistance in the society. Although, it was defined by the State with the consensus of the law. In order to legitimately fulfill its mission, the State has created this situation and more [inaudible] effectively organized to do this, and the promise made by many [inaudible] institutions [inaudible] among other things, the safety and welfare of the population. It is the effectiveness to the human of the promise social facilities that gives [inaudible] built in confidence to the official source of [inaudible]. The most important institution in this capacity is [inaudible], and the way to make justice is [inaudible]. In criminal case, for those citizens who fail to fulfill their duties and [inaudible], the private [inaudible] also expropriated and sublimated with corporal penalties. Before when a crime occurred, the Father of the victim's family, by their own hands, are [inaudible] the evil caused by the offense. In a given moment, the necessity to diminish the self-wardenship [inaudible] roles, which lead to the improvement of their social peacemaking, and consequently, more humane methods to solve criminal [inaudible]. When they State monopolize the social [inaudible] to the jurisdiction, it provided an official representative to resolve the conflicts with the exclusive power to make the use of force to achieve the resolution. All of the State legislative instruments can use force in this case. And it, again, dependents of citizens or physical punishments. Over time the primitive regularization [inaudible] laws and institutions have developed and ended up almost abolish the death penalty or other cruel forms of punishment. Maybe only need deprivation as the role, possible combination. Before the American French Revolutions, [inaudible] came from defined or had a hereditary origin. With the advent of democracy, the information starts to come from the people. This phenomenon has deeply changed the information [inaudible] State power. From this point on, the existence of the State power depends on the people's acquiescence. Thus, in relation to expropriate the conflict and monopolized violence, it was previously accessed by [inaudible]. It was required. The State changed the way of exercising violence, then expropriated the conflict. All of the method accepted by the people, [inaudible] representative and legislative form of institution. [Inaudible] could be an antidote against [inaudible] exercise of the coercive power of the State. The premise that I just discussed is exposed the Brazilian criminal system and their attempt to curb punitive power of [inaudible]. In Brazil, they attempt to curb the exercise of State violence has reached extreme levels. Every day that pass, we have less possibility to find a crime that law prescribes a custodial sentence. The criminal case is thought -- the State violence is exercised through punitive power. There is the State has the right to punish those who practice crimes. Some may say that, in fact, there is a duty of the State to punish those who commit crimes. Other than these questions, within the limits of the popular understanding, consider the State punishment as evil mostly because in the recent past Brazil live down the State issue or abuse of power [inaudible]. The sanction, therefore, of an individualist point of view is rejected in an attempt to avoid legal consequences caused by the misconduct. In other words, there is an attempt to avoid the responsibility for criminal actions. Thus, literally [inaudible] files [inaudible] in its punitive power are always from [inaudible], which of course both because of the majority charge of the concept of violence. And because of the false premise that State violence is arbitrary. Look into the present with the lens of the past, and in the Brazilian face with the lens of the military dictatorship period. Hence, there is an effective fundamental premise that there is a duty to curb the punitive power of this [inaudible]. With this fundamental premise, many procedure to depend on -- procedure entanglements are allowed to make it possible to postpone a final decision you can obtain. An example for the postponement of criminal decision has to do with the beginning of imprisonment in the Brazilian criminal system. Recently, the New Zealand federal Supreme Court has decided that for a person to be incarcerated and do his time following a criminal conviction in trial court in the consummation of the [inaudible] in this [inaudible] court, it's also necessary to have a final decision issued by the Supreme Court. In other words, it is required that all Brazilian criminal case be judged by the level of justice that composed the law. Therefore, it's enough for criminals to contact councils to appeal until the case reach the Supreme Court. As a consequence, a criminal case falls into a court level and must necessarily be analyzed by the leverages. This decision has many consequences. First, it is almost impossible to comply with the decision of the Federal Supreme Court. Brazil is a continental country, and there are millions of communities, ones at all levels of the judiciary. With [inaudible], the National Justice Council found out that in 2008, there were 9.1 million criminal process running [inaudible]. The decision of the Federal Supreme Court requires that the [inaudible] justice analyze all these process, which is simply not doable. According to alleged legal principle, [inaudible] impossible [inaudible]. No one is bound to do the impossible. Therefore, the Supreme Court has issued an unachievable command, since this number of process is impossible to be judged by [inaudible] people. It's important for all the lessons of the Brazilian to [inaudible] justice. It's not justice, but qualified and manifest injustice. This the nature [inaudible] criminal case because of the distance between the crime in the country, this form of [inaudible] of the victims to the people, who needed be defended. In all these case, there is a strong contribution to describe the [inaudible] activity of this. Because in the [inaudible], the delay makes the process become an idea of why they cry for justice. As previously mentioned, in expropriating private conflict, the State must solve them by itself. To solve these conflicts, it's important to provide a strong response, in order to give credibility to the accent of this. The way they decide the criminal issues makes this judiciary system become less used because of the lack of precedent. It might force that violence through the use of force by the people without following the law. As a matter of fact, it is already happening in communities that are dominated by drug dealers. This harmful situation affects also the [inaudible]. The rule of law, society must have a law system that gives the people security and predictability. In other words, you live in a community ruled by the law, it is important that conflicts are resolved and that the resolution you make the restitution that the people can expect in all the outcome of future conflict. There is no better example to have as [inaudible]. Through the nature conflicts, mostly criminal ones, effect directly this situation predictability. Society does not know what will happen in the future. It does not know if past conflicts will actually resolve. The foundation of law, since Roman law, are based on security through predictability. Without them both, nobody can expect the existence of a concrete and active legal system. I'd like [inaudible], this delay is harmful to the understanding. A [inaudible] in itself is a heavy burden, for instance, but the [inaudible], therefore, to postpone the decision of a criminal case, which is postponed the defendant's innocence [inaudible] a possible conviction takes hold of both the defendant and his or her friends and family. This prevents everyone involved from living their lives as before, as the stain of a criminal prosecution prevents plans or projects from being made in the future, given that a prison is always itself on the horizon. Moreover, there are white collar crimes and there's criminal prosecution. The prosecution of white collar criminal case requires for a long and detailed investigation. First, because of the complexity and the difficulty together [inaudible]. And second, because of the political power these three [inaudible] process. In the majority of case, white collar criminals are almost always guilty, and they most likely are not able to prove their innocence. Thus, the only way out for them is to postpone the process, plan to some [inaudible] to be [inaudible] impunity to have made example, the resilient judiciary districts that follow this pattern. So, one more point that leads to the judiciary display. Notwithstanding this [inaudible], there is light at the end of them, which makes us hopeful that justice can be [inaudible]. Article 492(1)(e) one of the criminal procedure code, recently amended in 2019 is a way of light. These are coauthored that [inaudible] in the case of sentencing, where punishment equal to or greater than 15 years of imprisonment. The provisional execution of this sentence must be determined by the [inaudible] with the issue of an immediate arrest warrant, thus avoiding the wrong role [inaudible] reaching a final decision by the Federal Supreme Court and an immediate response to the society. It's important to highlight that [inaudible], only felonies committed against life acquired [inaudible]. So, paraphrasing Neil Armstrong, this is one small step for the rule of law but a giant leap for justice. Anyway, importantly, it seems that [inaudible] judicial criminal system, a good criminal is a free criminal. Thank you, everyone. >> Eduardo Soares: Thank you, Mr. Santos. Now we turn to Mr. Goncalves, who will discuss the same issues further and from a different perspective. Welcome, Mr. Goncalves. Let me ask you, what is your perspective on the general perception that it's very difficult to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil? >> Mr. Henrique de Almeida Freire Gonçalves: Thank you, Mr. Soares. It's a pleasure to be here. I think that perception is actually misguided. I don't think that it's that difficult to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil in the common cases. What happened is that the media focuses on the high profile cases involving politicians and large corruption schemes. In those cases, [inaudible] in Brazil have several privileges that helps them to avoid the closure of a criminal case. So, and that's kind of processes. They gather more attention from the media, and thus the public have that perception that in Brazil, the rule is that it's very difficult to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil, where, statistically, it's not that hard at all. Those cases where there is -- I'm not denying that those cases where criminal conviction is hard to enforce exists. They do exist, but they are not, far from it. >> Eduardo Soares: And in regard to impunity, do you think there's an impunity problem in the country? >> Mr. Henrique de Almeida Freire Gonçalves: Actually, I will agree with the prosecutor here, that there is an impunity problem, if by impunity we mean that there's a disparity between the number of crimes committed and the number of people going to jail for committing those crimes. If that's the definition that we embrace for impunity, then yes, I do think that we have a huge problem in Brazil. While we do have a lot of people behind bars, Brazil is one of the largest prison populations in the world. When you make that number proportional to the total population and take into account that we have a really high crime rate as well, not just a high prison rate, that large number of prisoners is still very small when compared to the number of crimes that are committed. So, this is a prison population ranking from World Prison Brief. As we can see, Brazil is the third largest population -- [inaudible] prison population in the world. Based on this, some people actually argue that Brazil actually have too many arrests, not an impunity problem. But this, I think, it's a logical leap. When it comes to Brazil, using total numbers, rankings can be misleading as it happens with the United States as well because Brazil is one of the world's largest population overall. So, all of our total numbers will rank high in the world simply because of the size of the population. We have a large population, so every kind of total number will be large in Brazil, whatever statistic that -- what you want to use, you have to use it proportionally in Brazil. So, in order to correctly assess our problems, we have to look at numbers adjusted to the population. As we can see, Brazil, when those numbers are already adjusted to population, we rank really high when it comes to prisoners' rate. That is how many prisoners we have per 100,000 people. And -- but we are ranked even higher, much higher, in fact, when it comes to crime rates. That is the number of crimes committed by 100,000 people. It is intuitive to expect that the countries with the most crime would also be the countries with the most prisoners, but this is not the case. If we call this this discrepancy impunity problem, then I would agree that it does seem that we have an impunity problem in Brazil. Although, we do have a high number of prisoners, this number is disproportionately low when compared to the number of crimes committed. So, for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume that Brazil does have an impunity problem. As Mr. Santos already told us, our appeal system in Brazil is very convoluted. So, from those two propositions that our appeal system is kind of convoluted, and that we do have an impunity problem in Brazil, some people claim that the Brazilian criminal procedure law, especially the maneuvers available to defense, is the cause or one of the causes for the impunity problem in Brazil. But this, I argue, is another logical leap. I'm not saying that the Brazilian criminal procedure law does not contribute to the impunity problem at all. I'm just saying that to me, it seems that there is not enough evidence to support that claim. Although, it isn't -- it is possible to [inaudible] in the legal case cases, where the maneuvers by the criminal defense contributed decisively to this -- to the statute of limitations taking effect. This is not what usually happens. So, here we have-- Here we have a graph that was taken from investigation done by a television network in Brazil. I believe that the main cause for the impunity problem in Brazil starts in the investigation phase that is previous to the actual criminal processes and the appeals. There are many unsolved cases in Brazil for a variety of reasons, and this is an example. A news website in Brazil decided to monitor all the murder investigations in one week of 2017 in the State of Rio de Janeiro. In that week, there were 84 murders registered. Two years later, from that week, only one conviction and one acquittal took place. So, after two years, 82 of the 84 cases were not judged yet. Only 22 of those 84 investigations were finished, 73.8% were still ongoing. And out of those 22, that's the vast minority of the total cases, in only twenty cases the police was able to identify a main suspect. So, in two of those cases, they will -- they were closed before the police was able to identify a suspect at all. So, in those -- we're talking about murder cases here. So, we know that a crime happened. We know that there is an author to that crime, but we can't solve those crimes. The police can't solve -- since unable to identify the suspect. This is not very complex cases. Those are cases that we know that a crime took place, and still the police is not able to properly investigate it. So, when it comes to financial crimes, the situation gets even worse. This is a graph taken from a research by a federal prosecutor in Brazil about white collar crimes. She-- She investigated -- she followed 682 cases of white collar crimes through a period of seven years. In that research, after seven years, she found out that out of that 682 cases, 682 investigations, there were only five convictions. And moreover, only 15 of those 682 cases actually became a criminal process, with the prosecution not finding enough evidence to proceed in another 62 cases. And more than 600 cases still under investigation seven years later. So, those cases as well never became a criminal process, at least not in those seven years. So, it's not the criminal appeals that are holding these cases from becoming criminal processes. It is the lack of resources directed to the investigation phases. So, even if we look only at the allegations that had some kind of conclusion, whether for a criminal process or the prosecution thinking that was not enough evidence to proceed, we see a huge disparity between white collar and blue collar crimes. On the left here, we see up in Pernambuco State the difference between the cases where the prosecution did not find enough evidence to proceed in yellow. We can see that the white collar crimes, the proportion's much bigger than when all crimes are considered. And the same thing happens in Parana States. The orange -- the orange part of the pie chart is the crimes that the prosecution thought that was not enough evidence to proceed to a criminal case. And in gray, we find that the -- those part of the pie sharp where a natural criminal process begin. So, as we can see, the vast majority of white collar investigations do not become a criminal process at all. And why do we see such a disparity between blue collar crimes and white collar crimes? I think there are several possible explanations, but I believe one of the main reasons is that white collar crimes can be very complex and sophisticated. As such, they can require very complex and sophisticated investigations as well. In Brazil, we do suffer from a lack of resources in criminal investigation. So, that lack of resources shows even more strongly when we're dealing with white collar crimes. White collar crimes rarely are caught red handed. So, the investigation of this kind of crime is usually more difficult and require more man hours from the police. For the same reason, these investigations usually take much longer, which can benefit the white collar criminal due to the aforementioned statute of limitations. So, to give you a brief explanation of the Brazilian statutes of limitations, in Brazil, there's a certain amount of time that a criminal cases can go on, and that's true for all kinds of crime. Article 109 of the Brazilian Penal Code limits the time -- that time in six different ways either three, four, eight, 12, 16, or twenty years depending on the penalty for the crime. But the maximum amount of time in any crime can be investigated is twenty years. In Brazil, the maximum penalty for any crime is thirty years. There is no death penalty or imprisonment for life, as Mr. Santos already stated. There are certain marks that reset this statute of limitations count. So, in practice, it does happen that between the commitment of a crime and the end of the criminal process, more than twenty years goes by without this -- the statute of limitations taking effect. An example is when the prosecution presses charges, and the judge accepts those charges, the formal beginning of the criminal process in Brazil. Within the commitment of crime and the start of the criminal process, the statute of limitations taking into account the maximum penalty legally possible for the crime. After that, it takes into account the actual penalty imposed by the court. The statute of limitation is probably the main reason why criminal defenses try to cause delays in processes. Another reason is to postpone imprisonment. As in Brazil, the rule is that until every appeal is decided, the defendant will not be arrested. There are exceptions to this rule, though. For example, if the defendant is threatening witnesses, or there's a plausible cause for concern that the defendant will keep committing crimes if not imprisoned. Or if there is a cause for concern that the defendant will try to run away, like from the country or get away from the authorities if he's not in prison, then he can be arrested before the end of the of the criminal process. So, I'll give you one example of how the defense can delay the process. And I'll call this the declaration embargo loop. As Mr. Soares already explained, there is a type of appeal in Brazil called declaration embargo. It can be used whenever a judge or a court issues in the decision to rectify an obscurity, omission, or prediction, or to correct an error. When a judge issues a sentence convicting the defendant, after the publication of that sentence in the Official Gazette -- and this is not immediate. It takes a couple of days for that to happen. The defendant has two days to file a declaration embargo. After the declaration embargo is filed, the judge usually takes some time to decide. And once again, this decision has to be published in the Official Gazette. This decision about the embargo, about the sentence can also be embargoed but can also be subject to a declaration embargo. And so, that will require a new decision. And that new decision can also be subject to another declaration embargo and so on. So, that could go on forever. Every time that the declaration embargo is filed, the time you have to actually appeal the decision so the State Court can make a decision about it is reset. So, you keep resetting the time you have to actually appeal the decision when you do this, this maneuver. And what can the judge do if he's facing this kind of situation? The Criminal Procedure Code in Brazil does not provide an answer, but the Civil Procedure Code does have an answer to this. The judge can consider the embargo as a clear delaying maneuver and apply a fine. After two embargoes are considered as a delay maneuver, the defendant cannot file a third declaration embargo. However, judges rarely do this. And even if that was not the case, you can still use two delay embargoes and face the fine, which can be a small part -- price paid, especially if the defendant has financial resources in order to delay the process. There are other maneuvers that the defenses can do to delay the process. Like using every single appeal available, and there are quite a few. If you use every single day available to file anything, like appealing the decision from the last possible day, asking for the judge to produce useless evidence, like a witness -- witnesses that live abroad. The judge can decide that -- not to hear that witness, however, but sometimes, there are people that asked to hear a witness that -- witnesses that do not live in Brazil. And that requires a very long process to achieve. So, so far, I have established that from my point of view, at least, the main reason why we have an impunity problem in Brazil is the investigation phase, not the appeals available to the defense. Report of crimes that actually become a criminal process, are a minority. And then even -- and then even smaller minority when we are talking about white collar crimes. But what about the small part of the reported crimes that gets into the face where the prosecution process charges? Those the possible maneuvers by the criminal defense, like the example that I have showed, play a large part in the process delays. First, the percentage of processes that ends due to the statute of limitation taking effect is not that large, as we can see from the graphs that I have provided. The graph above was taken from a research study about corruption. So, the numbers only take into account white collar crimes. The first graph shows that about 10% of the criminal cases about corruption ends due to the statute of limitations taking effect. This graph is about one specific State Court, which is the State of [inaudible] was a State Court. But the numbers from the other courts do not differ significantly. You must also take into account that not all of the cases that ended up because of the statute of limitations had to do with the defense stalling or appealing too much. As shown in this -- in the second graph, in the processes that ended due to the statute of limitations, it was not the defense took the longer time with the process. Usually, the prosecution is the one that is taking the longest to do their part. However, you must also take into account that when the defense is acting to stall the process, it demands that the judge and the prosecution act more often, adding to the time that they'd have to spend in order to make the process continue. But this is not -- does not change the fact that if judges and prosecutors could act faster -- and I'm not blaming judges or prosecutors for this. There's a lack of personnel in every single stage of the criminal investigation in processing in Brazil. But if they could act faster, in many cases it could be avoided that the case was closed due to the statute of limitations taking effect. So, to end the presentation, in Brazil criminal process takes an average over two years from the prosecution pressing charges to the sentencing, almost four years in the case of State Courts. In the High Courts, however, over 90% of the Criminal Appeals are over within one year of it. I do not see any evidence to suggest that with the vast majority of the cases it's the excessive number of appeals available that delays the processes. Why then is there the general perception that the problem lies with the enforceability of the criminal convictions? As I already stated, in general, the public in Brazil have a perception that Brazil does have an impunity problem, and that is actually correct. At least, if you take into consideration my opinion about the subject. But as for the cause of the -- of this impunity, I believe it lies with the investigation. Due to a lack of resources, criminal investigations are done in general poorly in Brazil. Although, sometimes leakages occur, criminal investigations are done in Brazil in secrecy. So, the media and the general public do not have access to the investigations as they are occurring. The criminal process, on the other hand, is public. So, most of the attention and the media coverage is directed to the few high profile cases that actually turn into our criminal processes. And the bottleneck of the [inaudible] for investigations remain largely invisible to the general public. As the high profile cases involve more complex and sophisticated crimes, the prosecution may have to during the process makeup for the poor investigation done before the process has started. There also leaves more gaps in the prosecution claims to be exploited by the defense on those high profile cases. Moreover, as I've already stated, often high profile cases involve politicians. In Brazil, legislators creates a series of questionable privileges and immunities to politicians facing criminal charges. Those high profile cases are often the exception to the rule. And they end up taking much longer than the regular criminal process. Due to the major media focus on this kind of process, the general public, knowing that we face an impunity problem generalize the available information as the reason for the -- for that problem. Also, as we just saw, it does take a few years from the crime -- from the time that crime is committed and the actual enforcement of a conviction. That also may give the people the impression that a person that committed the crime face no consequences at all. Since the consequences take place after a long time, often after the crime itself, is not the focus of public attention, or even have faded from public memory. In conclusion, I think that the main cause for Brazil's impunity problems, why -- with the criminal investigation phase and not with our appeal system. That is what should be the focus of any kind of reform that aims at solving that problem. >> Eduardo Soares: Thank you for your comments, Mr. Goncalves. Mr. De Sanctis will now give some further insights into this issues. Welcome, Mr. De Sanctis. Let me ask you directly, why does it seem so difficult to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil? >> Mr. Fausto Martin De Sanctis: Good afternoon. I'd like to thank the Law Library of Congress for inviting me to this event. This is an honor and joy to participate in this conference. Thank you, Eduardo Soares, being our cohost. I'm so glad to be here now. So, thanks for your question. Due to the developing of bureaucratic criminal appeals system based on the junior doctrine [inaudible] pretense because of an excessive amount of abuse, judicial activism in the current revelation of the statute of limitations, which [inaudible] causing criminal laws to be ineffective. Organized, political, economic crime has had a free space in its efforts to perpetuate criminal activity. In an attempt to reverse the situation, it's all changed for many institutions and also for some agencies to carry out a great strategic effort contributing to a more rational and effective institutional framework. >> Eduardo Soares: Do you think there's any punitive problem in the country? >> Mr. Fausto Martin De Sanctis: So, when we look at the treatment given to economic or financial crimes in comparison with common crimes, there is a popular feeling and technical opinions about the duality of treatments present in the Brazilians justice system, which invariably nullifies major operation cases involving white collar crimes and criminals. Brazil, okay, has had the eight Federal Constitution, the last one was issued in 1988, due to a long period of dictatorship, and then many abuses oppressed during that era, which usually means representative [inaudible] the purpose of the law, there has been a declaration of the law and in the importance of respecting the law. As a result, a constitution of 1988 expressed disfavor for the law. That's why addresses legal issues and contains 250 articles plus 114 articles included the extenuatory provisions. The Constitution established rights and duties. Its purpose is to reflect the people's voice through habeas data, popular action, habeas corpus, injunction write, writ of mandamus included. Another consequence of the dictatorship here [inaudible] and it appears it [inaudible] at that time is that fundamental principles gain enormous strength. And the Constitution has been praised as a diploma that should have as many principles and rule as possible. Next slide, please. Are you talking about the car wash case? Car wash case is considered the top of all corruption iceberg. It initially involved with Petrobras, a mixed capital company, and then Odebrecht, a big private contractor, and finally, JBS a big food and meat producer. This case revealed the big scheme of corruption that also allowed for the financial and political campaigns and the distortion of the most important two bidding principles like equality [inaudible] and demonstrated with [inaudible]. During the course of the case, it was possible to, I think, [inaudible] defense moves [inaudible] this judicial decisions, like with use of habeas corpus and appeals to get a favorable decision even is taken by a single justice. In this way, the destruction of cases begins. The arrest of the defendant is following their conviction demonstrated that the measures taken by the Federal Police, public prosecutor results, and the federal judge were appropriate, showing that the country was acting to correct its course. The conclusion that it was reached during the investigation that perfectly firms that have been deviated spurious payments to many congressmen. Let's be clear how [inaudible] enveloped it was in neglecting the actions of these people, these groups were in order to achieve their objectives. If revealed -- it revealed, so far, money laundering of approximately $3.5 billion and the 10 billion -- sorry, $1.7 billion of kickbacks. Unfortunately, now the car wash case is at the risk of being annulled due to single or collective decision being made as a Federal Supreme Court in a continuous process of reveal their own decisions, although previously they withheld. Then next slide, please. The current judicial issues are now is the onus excessive in the repetitive litigation, lack of efficiency in the decision-making process, although good transparency, lack of a rational appeal system. Since there is the abuse of defense rights habeas corpus against any single decision, even from the [inaudible] that are not in jail. And we can -- I can code our system in some way in the inner apartheid [inaudible]. Why? Because there are special courts for high level authorities. If your politician is not reelected, there is a ping pong effect that sends the case to the first instance. But if the politician is reelected, the case returns to the special court usually is the Brazilian Supreme Court. So, all this represents this course scarce activity of the judiciary, which discouraged all good actions taken by law enforcement body for fighting corruption. Some attempts to rationalize illegal systems include simplification of civil procedures, reform of criminal procedures, implementation of electronic lawsuits, which helps you to expedite procedures and make it a little faster. Despite this innovation, there was no significant change in their right to appeal with the existing instruments. Also, constitutional reforms was made -- were made. Some attempts to rationalize the legal system based on the Brazilian constitution were creation the binding precedent was introduced in 2004 at the Federal Supreme Court. Certain decisions are binding to the entire judiciary. And now, we've established our hybrid system called law and civil law. In Brazil now, we have with a discretionary review. Supreme Court only reviews our case if it considers the case to be relevant to the nation. And [inaudible] for also, there was the creation of the National Council of Justice that sets unified standards, goals to the judiciary, unifying proceedings, and the receipt and the hearing complaints against the member or bodies of the judiciary. Talking about the effectiveness and the transparency, it's important to summarize the current situation of the Brazilian judiciary and [inaudible] mistreated and the social control. At the end of 2018, Brazil have in all the judicial system 77.1 million cases pending. The role of the National Council of Justice appointed to the Supreme Court was open-ended judge ethical, and the disciplinary proceedings against judge can be generated by the National Council of Justices despite local courts, internal affair investigations. In Brazil, we have the live TV broadcasting online portrait of the judicial sessions. So, the trial session of the Brazilian Supreme Court is it -- has free access of the people, which represented a new space for public knowledge, subjecting judicial decisions to all kinds of pitch seasons. It's a new space with new critics. Talking about [inaudible] cases and their outcomes. In coming, in almost all cases, there was the use of individuals to send money abroad by foreign exchange dealers all the [inaudible] to offshore companies. That's why you needed an international cooperation. Except, the fourth [inaudible] mentioned mostly corruption that was subjected to the statute of limitations. There was the unknown element concern of all of them. Here, I would like to take a small look at the last two case, car wash case, as a I expressed above, is currently at the risk of being annulled due to the set of decisions made by the Federal Supreme Court that's understood by the plenary on April 15th, last week. That the case should have started in Brasilia. In addition, it's currently being decided whether the federal judge in the cases involving former President Lula was partial, as taping the cellphone conversations between the federal jury and the prosecutors were allowed to be used by the defense to demonstrate the judge's partiality. The last case, combine salary is started to be investigated by the Public Prosecutor's Office of the State of Rio de Janeiro, for the alleged embezzlement scheme of [inaudible] that occurred in the [inaudible] of a former State deputy of the State of Rio de Janeiro. Cabinet officials returned part of their salary as the main beneficiary, this term of the current President Jiar Bolsonari [phonetic]. The Superior Court of Justice consider that the decision issued by the Trial Court of Rio de Janeiro that authorized the State police and the prosecution -- prosecutors to have access to the bank and [inaudible] of the State deputy was not duly supported by evidence and annulled the use of the information pertaining to the bank records. So, talking about the complexity of the Brazilian appeal system. This can be evidentiary by the many different possibilities of the deals, habeas corpus, and criminal review actions. Changes made by the Higher Court is [inaudible] risk potential understand with the retroactive effect to reach basic decisions is common. And going directly to the conclusions, we can conclude from the analysis of the main corruption and money laundering cases that the car wash case along with all other high profile case against one of the people [inaudible] cases in shaping the Brazilian [inaudible] corruption landscape. It deeply challenge the Brazilian judicial system, which has been marked by decisions that's changed the legal understanding of previously decided issues. There is a perfect inconsistence in the Brazilian appeal systems in, on one hand and admitting if a person be arrested following a criminal conviction the first instance, even if there is pending appeal, in cases of crimes against life, like homicides or murders, when the penalty is equal to or greater than 15 years. And not, on the other hand, admitting this same treatment in any other case, which must wait for a final decision of the Brazilian Supreme Court. Or admitting as evidence messages stolen by hackers from public official cellphones to unknown decisions based on information of any -- in violation of the law. But unfortunately, the public perception also the Superior Courts is that they are becoming a place that -- where cases involving political, economic crimes go to die, and where the outcome of investigations that upset politicians, executives, banker, CEOs, and private companies are burnt. The Brazilian experience when it does not distinguish social [inaudible] has been successful. The same cannot be said of political, economic crimes. That's why a careful review of the appeals system must be done in order to ensure greater effectiveness of anti-corruption acts. And finally, Brazil either opts for a perineal weak justice system that remains up with interminable, political and economic scandals, or improves it definitively. I ended that here. Thank you very much. >> Eduardo Soares: Thank you and thank you, everybody. As we come to the end of this presentation, I'd like to thank you, all three panelists and also our reference librarian, Barbara Davis, for her help, one more time for their interest, insights, and discussions. In this webinar, we discussed the challenge to enforce a criminal conviction in Brazil under the perspective of a public prosecutor, public defender, and an appellate court judge. I just would like to apologize for going a little bit over time, but I believe it was worth the effort. Because as I said in our message, the topic is very complex and demands a little further investigation, little bit more detail. And I don't know if we have time for questions but submit your questions. We'll do our best to provide the answers to the best of our ability whenever we can. Thank you for listening.