>> Roswell Encina: This is the
Superman number one from 1939.
And this is the 1940
Batman number one.
Hi, there, I'm Roswell Encina,
Chief Communications Officer
for the Library of Congress.
And get ready to nerd out.
The Library of Congress has one
of the largest comic
book collections
with titles dating
back more than 80 years
with superheroes
from then and now.
So, it is our honor to welcome
five extraordinary talents
of the comic book
industry; legendary publisher
and Chief Creative Officer
of DC Comics Jim Lee,
illustrator Bernard Chang,
writers Sarah Kuhn and Minh Le,
and former national ambassador
for young people's
literature, Gene Luen Yang.
We all have one thing in common.
We started drawing superheroes
and comics when we were kids.
They became brilliant talent
and titans of the industry.
My drawings stayed in my
childhood desk drawer.
They are joining us as part
of the Library's Behind the
Book Series, where we'll talk
about their inspirations,
how their Asian heritage
influenced them,
and how their talents
allowed them to soar
in this fascinating field.
The Library of Congress is
celebrating the rich diversity
of America with this
program in observance
of Asian Pacific
American Heritage Month.
We hope you enjoyed
this conversation.
For more of our literary
events, visit loc.gov/engage.
Thank you, and here's
your moderator for today,
best selling author and
artist, Gene Luen Yang.
Gene?
>> Gene Luen Yang:
Thank you, Roswell.
And thank you, all, for
joining me here today.
Thank you to the Library of
Congress for hosting this event.
I am so excited to be here with
you all today because I get
to introduce you all to Jim Lee.
Jim Lee is a world renowned
comic book artist, writer,
editor, and publisher.
He is currently the Chief
Creative Officer of DC Comics.
He is also the publisher
of the company.
Since becoming publisher in
2010, Jim has overseen many
of the company's most
successful publishing programs,
including the recent record
breaking rebirth line of comics,
and the new 52 initiative, which
rebooted the entire DC universe.
He is a legend in
American comics.
Jim has received numerous
awards and accolades,
including a Harvey
Award, an Inkpot Award,
Diamond Gemstone Awards,
and Wizard Fan Awards.
Most importantly, Jim is
an incredible inspiration
to countless of us in
American comics, including me.
Let's welcome Jim to
the virtual stage.
>> Jim Lee: Thank you for
that [inaudible] introduction.
The feeling is mutual.
Likewise, for sure, Gene.
I just want you to know
you're a hero of mine,
and your successes
are amazing as well.
And I'm just excited to
actually see you again.
It's been a while.
So
>> Gene Luen Yang:
Yeah, it's been a while.
I have to tell you, one of
the reasons why I said yes
to this event is because I feel
like it gives me the chance
to say things to you that
would be very awkward
to say while we're having
like a meeting in your office.
You know? So, I feel like you
mean a lot to me because many
of my fondest memories
from my teenage years
with my younger brother
have to do with you.
It was me and him
waiting in line
at a local comic book convention
in order to get your signature.
And I don't want to get
into too many details,
but there was one
incident where he got
to touch your sacred
drawing pens.
And you were always
just super kind.
You know? You were
always super kind
to these teenage nerds that,
that waited to see you.
And we were always
incredibly impressed.
>> Jim Lee: Well, look,
I'll tell you this,
because I see myself
in those young fans.
And I think when I, you
know, certainly when I got
into the business, when I was
drawing comics and stories,
I was very much trying to
tap into like the stuff
that excited me as a younger
reader and trying to deliver
that same sense of excitement
and bringing that world,
you know, the mythology to
life for other fans and sort
of creating that
next generation.
And it's been a really
awesome ride.
I mean, it's moved so
quickly at this point.
I think 33, 34 years
at this point.
So, yeah, it's been awesome.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
That's amazing.
Well, I would like to dig
in a little bit deeper.
I'd like to start
from your beginning.
You know, every superhero
has an origin story.
So, I would love to hear
the Jim Lee origin story.
Here's, here's just the
basics of what I know.
You were born in South
Korea, but you grew
up in St. Louis, Missouri.
What was your childhood like?
And how exactly did
you make your way
into the American
comic book community?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, I
would say, you know,
my childhood seemed
fairly normal to me.
You know, I have very two loving
parents, a younger sister,
was born in South Korea, came
to the United States when I was
like four and a half,
five years old.
I didn't speak any English.
Neither did my mother.
My father was a resident, he
was a doctor that was brought,
basically brought in
because there was a shortage
of physicians in
the United States.
And I think I gravitated
towards escapism,
because the culture shock,
I can only imagine like what
that must have been like at that
age, not understanding anything,
and seeing everything
really differently.
But that one connection I did
when, and when I was in Korea,
I did, there was a character
called Hunglebachi [phonetic].
It was like this Korean
skeleton with a cape.
I remember that.
And watching these Max
Fleischer Superman cartoons.
And being, see Superman again
in another country I guess
felt very familiar to me,
but I just naturally
gravitated towards comics
because there wasn't a lot
of nerd content in general.
There was no Netflix.
There was nothing, right?
So, you just had to wait for
something to show up and catch
that wave, so to speak.
And comics were ubiquitous
at the time.
They were on every street
corner, newspaper vendor,
when I got my hair cut.
And I think it was just
like looking at the pictures
that they were my
form of entertainment.
And they really inspired
me to understand
or teach myself English.
Right? So, I can understand what
these characters were saying.
But, you know, like
if you have a,
if you have a really great
artist who can, you know,
if they're doing their job
correctly, you should be able
to understand the story
without the words, right?
So, I got my stories
through the pictures,
but then it incentivized me
to learn what they
were actually saying.
And I learned all the language
that would explain what
the white balloons,
dialogue balloons meant,
and then I graduated
to the captions, then
I remember graduating
to the letters columns.
Right? And reading all those.
Because it was just a
different kind of vocabulary.
And I think it really taught me
very early to kind of like, oh,
if you learn something, it
unlocks some other cool thing.
And that's something that has
really I think kind of driven me
or has been part of
my life ever since.
Right? And looking back on it.
>> Gene Luen Yang: Were
there certain characters
that you gravitated
towards when you were young?
>> Jim Lee: You know what?
Again, it was like the Sahara
of nerd, you know, content.
There wasn't a lot of stuff.
So, anything you saw, whether
it was Casper the Friendly Ghost
or Archie comics or movies
about giant insects, you know,
I consumed as much and all
of it as much as possible.
And, you know, I think,
again, there was just a lot
of comic books at the time.
And I remember, you
know, hanging out with
like neighborhood kids on our
banana bikes and just, you know,
which I would never
let my kids do today.
Like, you know, I would just go
out, you know, during the day,
and I would return
when the sun set,
and my parents had
no idea where I was.
And frankly, I've looked at
some old maps, and I was trying
to trace my [inaudible] steps
of where I would go hang out.
It was miles that I'd be
riding on my bike, you know,
and I was like 12 years old, 10,
12, you know, anyway, but we,
there was always like an older
kid that had a box of comics.
And they were just piled in
there like in one big box,
and we would like
kind of dive through
and he'd give us the ones
that he was bored of,
and then we would trade
them on ourselves.
And so it was kind
of a cool hobby.
But, you know, I
always drew too.
That was the other thing.
When I was, even in Korea,
when I was like four years old,
I have an art tutor that came
in, and we'd learn how to draw,
or she taught me how
to draw in oil pastels.
So, you know, seeing
the content,
reading the stories
really fed my sort
of creative passion for drawing.
And so I spent a lot of time
just drawing my favorite scenes
or my favorite characters.
And, again, great, like,
it was great escapist fare.
Like just disappearing
into another world.
And, again, I think,
you know, it was,
it brought probably a lot of
comfort to me as I was growing
up in this sort of
strange new world.
>> Gene Luen Yang: I think
it was the same for me too.
Comic books and the
escapism they offered,
and really the stories they
told, helped me find my place
in the world, you know,
being in between cultures,
I think these stories
about characters
who have two different
identities were super important
to me.
>> Jim Lee: For sure.
Yeah. And also I think that you
could have something that feels
like a curse, but it actually
ends up being a blessing
or a secret power
[inaudible] something
that really kind
of appealed to me.
And, you know, I mean, it's
not that I had endured a lot
of like, you know, you know,
prejudice or abuse or anything,
but, you know, you do feel
like you're an outsider.
You were treated
like as an outsider.
And I think that also fed my
creative passions for drawing,
because, you know, I was really,
and I think still
am, pretty observant.
Right? You're always
watching other people,
like how do I fit in, how do I
stand, what are they wearing,
like how do I like become
more like them so they don't,
so I don't stand out like this
weird, you know, you know,
kid that came in
from another country?
And so I think that's
something that, yeah,
really kind of heightened
my observational powers.
And so when I draw, I'm
pulling from memory and pulling
from life experiences, things
that I've just sort of, oh,
when people are, you know,
annoyed, this is kind
of the body language that
they have, or, you know,
so like I felt that
was a piece of kind
of my creative upbringing.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
That's a great point.
I actually had never
thought about that,
how being an outsider
really does train your
observation skills.
But it's totally true.
It's absolutely true.
When, when did you
start thinking
about making your
own comic books?
When did you start making
your own comic books?
>> Jim Lee: Oh, I think I
was drawing since, you know,
I was like five years
old, you know,
certainly in grade school
I thought I was ready
to break into the pros.
That's pretty sad.
I think I was like,
you know, nine or ten,
and I mailed a half finished
Hulk drawing to Marvel,
and thinking they would
hire me, you know?
But I think later, like
when I was like, you know,
junior or senior in high school,
I started drawing comics,
my own stories, and I was
doing it on typewriter paper,
because that's the
only paper I had.
I didn't know that, well,
yeah, I didn't know,
I didn't know how
comics were made.
Right? So, I was, you
know, do the credits box
and go written by, you know, at
the time my name was Yung Lee.
That was my given name, right?
Penciled by Yung Lee, inked
by Yung Lee, you know,
colored by Yung Lee,
lettered by.
And I was like really
a narcissistic,
obviously, you know, exercise.
I could have just said comic by.
But, anyway, so that
was, that was,
I remember definitely
trying my hand at it,
but I was not disciplined.
And I didn't really
get the discipline
until I was like 21 or 22.
And I think that's usually kind
of a pivotal age I see in a lot
of young aspiring artists, like
the desire exceeds your ability
and your discipline
when you're younger.
And then at a certain point
as you mature, you are able
to focus and commit and
actually finish something.
And so I didn't really finish
a comic book story I think
until I actually got an
assignment from Marvel
when I was like 21 or 22.
Everything was kind
of half finished
because I would either lose
interest, or I think, yeah,
I think I just lost interest.
I didn't really, I
wasn't as focused
as finishing a complete story.
And that kind of
speaks to the fact
that I'm not really a writer.
You know? Like I
wasn't really focused
on beginning, middle and end.
It was more about like, oh,
this would be kind of fun
to draw and bring to life.
And then when I got tired
with it, I would just kind
of move onto the next idea.
>> Gene Luen Yang: Okay,
I want to dig into that,
that choice that you
just talked about.
The choice of actually entering
into the comic book story as a,
as an artist at Marvel.
You have immigrant parents.
I think it's safe to say that
no immigrant parent dreams
of their kid getting
into comic books.
So, what was that like?
What was it like to
make that decision?
What was it like to
tell your parents
that you made that decision?
Or what were the circumstances
around that decision?
>> Jim Lee: Well, were
your parents supportive
of your decision?
>> Gene Luen Yang: No, no.
>> Jim Lee: Spontaneous survey,
like so far it's 0
and 8,928, I believe.
Yes, it was not a popular
decision at the household.
You know, I went to college,
I got a degree in psychology,
my father was a physician, like
I said, and they really came
to the United States
and were the first
of the extended family, they
were the pioneers of the family
that moved to a strange new
country for the American dream.
And that was fully what
they expected me to do.
And I returned this
awesome sacrifice in favor
by basically saying that's not
what I want, you have, you know,
there's, the American spirit
is in me, and I'm going
to do what I think is right.
And I love comic books.
And I just, for whatever reason,
I just had this burning passion
to become a comic book artist.
And obviously I loved the
characters and the stories.
And that was a big piece of it.
But I think also, I think there
was some, you know, desire,
some individualism that was
sort of coming out that hey,
this is what I want to do,
and it's not necessarily
what you want me to do.
And I think that was like
the only time we had a really
major rift.
But after they saw like how
intent I was on this dream,
the number of hours
I was putting
into drawing every single
day after I graduated college
and moved back into, you
know, my childhood bedroom,
set up a drawing table, I
would like roll out of bed,
right onto the chair,
start drawing.
I would draw like 10, 12
hours a day every single day
until my knuckles were
sore and I had to put them
under hot water, I pinched a
nerve, my father got me a brace.
So, they saw that I
was really driven,
and this is what I wanted to do.
And, but once I got the work,
they were actually
my biggest champions.
I mean, they, you know,
they never asked me again
about applying to
medical school.
And they were super
supportive even, you know,
when I was first, my very
first year in comics.
I think they were just really
fearful that I would be,
you know, the proverbial
sort of starving artist
and I would never realize
my dream and be able
to make a living at it.
And once they saw that someone
could get paid for doing this,
because they knew nothing
about it as well, riot,
they were pretty happy.
And they became relentless, I
think, in their support, like,
you know, we'd go to
a Chinese restaurant,
and they'd pull the waiter over
and go like, yeah, you know,
our son, you know what
he does, like, you know,
he draws this comic book.
And they'd bring home comic
books from the ER for me to sign
for like the nurses that
were also comic book fans.
So, you know, I was like,
like, can we just save this
for Comic Con, is that possible,
like can I have some
private life?
So, you know, it was
just, but it was great,
they were very supportive,
for sure.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
So, that was one
of your really radical
decisions, you know,
the decision to actually enter
into the comic book industry.
But once you got in, I feel
like you did not follow
the standard career path.
I think the standard career path
for an artist is to work at one
of the big two companies,
either Marvel or DC, right?
And really try to attach
your name to a character
and do a couple of epic
runs on that character.
But you did that.
You did an epic run on Punisher
and an epic run on X Men.
I have all of those comics at
home somewhere in a long box.
But then you did this
other radical decision.
You made the decision
to make this jump
from fan favorite
artist to entrepreneur.
And that's the other decision
I'd like to ask you about.
Like what, what prompted that?
What made you make
that decision?
Because I felt like you were
at a place where it seemed
like you had a, like
you got to a position
that was very difficult
to get to.
The fan favorite
artist, you know?
And to move from there
to something much riskier
like being an entrepreneur
must have been difficult.
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, I think
the same impulsive behavior,
impulsive instinct that made
me kind of give up, all right,
I've got this degree,
I took my MCATs,
I took my organic
chemistry, I was,
I had all my recommendations
for medical school,
and I remember thinking like,
wow, if I get on this escalator,
four years from now I will
be out of medical school,
another four years I will
have done my internship
and residency.
Another eight years of
specialization or whatever
and I will come off the
top of this escalator
and be this thing, and that
will be the start of my career
as a doctor or whatever,
you know, surgeon,
whatever I was thinking.
And it seemed like putting
life off for that long
and not having any
spontaneity for, you know,
moving away from that
path seemed very,
it didn't seem attractive
at all.
Right? And so I think when I
got into comics, part of it was
that it was all novel, I was
learning as I was doing it,
they hired me before I was
really any good, honestly,
and I was learning on the job.
But then I think that
natural curiosity
that something I learned in high
school and college is what kind
of drove me to keep pushing
and learning about the rest
of the industry,
like, all right, well,
if I do my art here, how
do I make this art better?
Well, I can work with a greater
or more experienced inker.
If I work with a really good
colorist, they'll heighten that,
what the art looks like.
So, you see the value in working
with like the very best
creators like that.
And then a great writer can
elevate your art as well.
Well, what does the editor do?
What does the salesperson do?
What does a publicist do?
They all actually all enhance
the quality or the ability
to sell or market the
story you're creating.
And so just learning
about the rest
of the business kind
of fed itself.
And I just, I wanted
to know more.
And then ultimately that led
to, well, you know, what happens
if I leave this and do something
new, what is on the other side
of this, and what is
sort of unlocked by kind
of fearlessly kind of
jumping off this cliff?
And then, you know, like it was
27, 28, something like that,
and I think when
we were younger,
you either think you know
everything or you feel
like you're vulnerable.
And so that also played
a role in it, I think.
And so all that together, it
didn't seem like a big choice
to me, though, honestly, Gene.
I mean, I think at the time,
I felt like it always
could come back, I think.
But at the end of the day, I
was more enticed by the unknown
than what I had already kind of
created or sort of understood.
And, you know, wanting to
understand like, all right,
what happens if I
do my own comics?
How do I create an
infrastructure or a business
or a team to help kind of
unlock the content I'm creating?
And, man, I learned
on the job too.
I think every year I've
been in the industry,
I've kind of learned
different things.
And that's what's
kept me engaged
and interested in what I do.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
Well, you know, just to,
just to describe
exactly what you did,
you founded Image
Comics, which is now one
of the biggest comic book
companies in America.
And then your piece of
that, WildStorm Productions,
was the home of all of these
characters that are still
around today, you
know, decades later.
They're still a vital
part of stories
that are being read
by characters today.
Incredibly radical.
Both of these decisions I think
are just mind-blowingly radical.
I do want to ask, like
did you ever feel any fear
when you made these decisions?
And if so, how did
you deal with that?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, you know,
I think I'm a pretty
analytical person.
Right?
So, I feel like there's the
creative side of things,
and then even in the way I
approach art, I think a lot
of times mathematically and sort
of through geometry rather than,
you know, the emotional
side of things,
and that's something I always
have to, you know, think about
and weigh and make sure I,
you know, bring the emotion
into the art as much as the,
sort of the technical
aspects of it.
For me, I think it was just
really an exercise of, you know,
what are the odds, what are
the risks, and just, you know,
deconstructing the fear aspect
of what am I actually
fearful of, right?
That I'll be embarrassed, that I
will, you know, make less money,
or I will fall flat on my face,
and have to come, you know,
so there are all these things
that ran through my head,
and was just like,
all right, what,
what's the likelihood
of all that?
So, I think that's a way of kind
of minimizing or reducing fear.
Then the other part of
it, you know, I was young,
and I think there's
something exhilarating
about doing something that
people haven't done before.
And then I also had
all compadres,
I had all these other people
who I wasn't doing it by myself,
so I didn't feel
like I was insane.
Right? Like all these other
people think it's a good idea,
then maybe it is a
really good idea.
So, you know, people like Todd
McFarlane or Mark Sylvester
who are instrumental in kind
of, you know, you can create
like a momentum by
talking to your trends,
and that's what we did.
I mean, part of the genesis of
Image Comics was because each
of us were working essentially
more or less alone or with one
or two friends in different
pockets of the United States.
And you've got hours of downtime
where you're drawing
these stories.
And we'd put on these like, you
know, telemarketer headsets,
you know, with a microphone,
and we'd just call each other up
and spend hours talking to
each other while we're drawing
the stories.
And out of that came a bond,
and just like, you know,
what if we were to all
rally or bond together?
What could we do?
And that was really exciting.
It's like, well, let's find out.
Who knows?
And I think that's,
you know, that is,
that is a hallmark
of being young.
Right? Young and stupid, right?
In some ways, right?
Is just willing to
take those risks.
You don't necessarily think of
the implications or consequences
of failure because
why would you, right?
And so I think the timing
just align it and the people
and the situation,
so it didn't feel
like a scary situation
at all to be honest.
>> Gene Luen Yang: Well,
that's some great advice.
So, thinking through your risks,
weighing what those risks are,
and relying on your
friends in order to get
>> Jim Lee: Well, yeah,
yeah, there you go,
that's a much more
succinct answer.
>> Gene Luen Yang: That's great.
Well, now the time has
come for me to invite one
of my fellow Jim Lee fans
up onto the virtual stage.
Bernard Chang is a superstar
comic book artist and designer.
He's best known for his work
in the comic book industry
and in the entertainment
design industry.
He used to be a Walt Disney
imagineer, which means he got
to design rides and attractions.
Bernard broke into the
comic book industry in 1992
at the tender age of 20.
He was quickly voted as one of
Wizard's fan favorite artist.
He made the Top 10 Artists list.
And then he was also nominated
for the Russ Manning Award
during his first year
in the industry.
Since then, he's drawn many
critically acclaimed books,
including Wonder
Woman, Superman,
Green Lantern and Teen Titans.
So, let's welcome Bernard Chang,
assuming he can find
a parking space.
>> Bernard Chang: Yeah, I
think there's one over here.
Gene, better give me
five stars after this.
>> Gene Luen Yang: Oh,
I'm giving you five stars.
>> Bernard Chang: Jim,
thank you so much.
It's such an honor to be sitting
down and chatting with you.
I've always been
a tremendous fan.
Even as a professional,
whenever I'm
around you, I really
fan boy out.
So, you have to excuse my
sensitivity towards how awesome
I think you are.
I want to talk a
little bit today
about art, artistic process.
And, you know, I know you
went through Princeton.
You were almost going to
head towards a career as a,
in the medical profession.
But then all of a sudden, you
know, you took a turn to dive
into the comic book field.
Like as a young artist,
were there any, you know,
can you talk about some of the
struggles you might have had,
or maybe some doubts or
issues that you were fighting,
or was it just smooth
coasting all the way?
>> Jim Lee: No, you know,
the thing I remember most
about the early years, Bernard,
is just this overriding need
to draw, like I was drawing like
every single day, every holiday,
you know, like cleaning
my house one time I found
like an old voucher, or
it was like a summation
of all the work I did
in one year at Marvel.
It was like 200 and
like 40 pages of pencils
and like 80 pages of inks that
I vouchered for, you know,
and I'm like, wow, that's
a lot, that's a lot.
I mean, so I think it was, this
is, it was such a big dream
of mine, and I had worked
so hard to like break in,
in a weird way, like maybe
I felt like if I stop,
it will go away, it will
disappear like some weird dream.
And so I think I was like really
obsessed with the need to draw.
And I guess maybe entertain
or impress the audience
with the work I was creating.
And, you know, there wasn't,
there wasn't the internet
obviously back then.
So, there was a feedback loop,
right, and you go to conventions
and you meet the fans that
would be like months after.
And there was only a
couple of conventions
or a lot fewer conventions,
so there was only these
few regular moments
where you could interact
with your audience.
And so in a weird way, I think
I always had them in my mind
as I was creating this content,
these stories, and it was just,
you know, seeing the
reaction and the feedback
from the fans kind of grow
with every new project,
it just kept reinforcing itself.
And so the excitement I saw
in the fans fueled my desire
to create, you know, more work,
and work on bigger characters.
And, again, as I was
telling Gene, like learning
about the craft, learning about
the business was something that,
again, really sort of
inspired and drove me.
So, it wasn't always just
about finishing pages,
it was finishing pages
in service of a storyline
or finishing pages in service
of working with another creative
that I've always
wanted to work with.
Right? And then, you know,
just meeting new people
within the industry, whether
they worked, you know,
as an executive, a
staffer, or other artist,
and learning from them.
Like I used to bug other artists
all the time, every Comic Con,
like what tools do you use?
Like how do you, how
do you composure pages?
Like everything was like this
incredible learning experience
that was on 24/7.
And that's, that's kind of
what I remember from the very,
sort of the first phase
of my career, I guess.
So, it was, it really drove
me for many, many years.
>> Bernard Chang: Where do
you is there something that,
you know, that when you
were a kid that helped build
that particular sense
of discipline
or observation or
just curiosity?
>> Jim Lee: I think curiously
is a big thing, you know,
certainly in high school and
college it was always about,
okay, you need to
learn the content.
But what will serve you better
in life is understanding how
to communicate, how
to do your research
and put thoughts together.
But ultimately curiosity
is something
that is probably the most
valuable thing you can sort
of instill in yourself, because
with curiosity you'll become a
self propelling machine
in a way,
like that's how you will learn,
that's how you will
improve and get better.
And I think even from
my earliest memories,
like learning English,
unlocked all this stuff.
And so to me, like if I can draw
well, that will unlock a career,
and I will unlock
working with this person
and working on this character.
And if I, you know, so
it kind of fed itself.
But I think I've just
always been curious and kind
of obsessive in a way.
I was really into like Dungeons
& Dragons as a, as a kid too.
And I would make my
mine adventures and maps
and then lists of NPCs
and their back stories.
And I found this in
a box in my garage.
I'm like, what was
wrong with me?
Like what, my parents
probably looked at me
like what is he doing,
you know, what,
why is he doing this, you know?
And but it was just, I think it
was I just loved these worlds.
And whether you create them
with numbers or pictures,
it's just something that brought
me a lot of, you know, creative,
you know, satisfaction.
And so that was really
a big part of it.
>> Bernard Chang:
You also mentioned
about digging into boxes.
And for this thing, I went
and dug into my long boxes.
And this book here,
after flight number 51,
when I was collecting comics
as a teenager in Miami,
I'd get like comics
mailed to me, you know,
subscription through Marvel.
But then I'd also go to the
comic book store about once,
once a month to pick
up any specials.
And I remember flipping
through this book when I got it
in the mail, take it out of
the brown bag, that it was,
and just looking at the
artwork instantly drew me in.
And I knew that there
was something different.
It was different, you know,
this was your first Marvel book.
Right?
>> Jim Lee: That's right.
>> Bernard Chang: And I remember
looking in the, after flipping
through the book,
looking back in the front,
and seeing this guy, Jim Lee.
I was like, hmm, back then there
were no, there was no internet.
So, there was no way to like
really know who you were
and connect the face
with the work.
Was there something like,
when this book first came out,
what was going on in your head
and in your life at that time?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, I
think I was just happy
to get my first assignment.
And I thought I was going
to get a new universe title.
That was what Marvel was
publishing at the time.
And I was like, I'll take
DP7, whatever star brand,
I just wanted to get
my foot in the door.
And the fact that
I got alpha flight,
you know, they're mutants.
I mean, they're Canadian
mutants, whatever,
but they're still mutants,
and they tied into X Men,
which was my favorite
book growing up.
Right? And so I was
just really kind of,
I counted myself very fortunate
that I was working on characters
that were meaningful to me.
So, even when I worked
on that first issue,
that introduced a whole new
team of alpha flight members.
And they weren't
recognizable to me.
But I was still happy that,
to work on a prestigious
title like that.
And like I said, I was, I
was learning on the job.
You know, in my head, I'm
sure I was thinking like, oh,
this will really
impress the fans.
I'm going to give them all
this detail and action, and,
you know, put my heart
into every single line
or every single drawing, panel.
But, you know, looking back
on it, obviously I was,
I was learning on the job.
And what I had in my head wasn't
necessarily what I could bring
to life through the
actual work itself.
But the desire and
the imagery was there.
I just couldn't get it from
here to the page just yet.
>> Bernard Chang:
Well, thank you.
>> Jim Lee: No problem.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
All right, well,
it's time to invite
another Jim Lee fan
up onto the virtual stage.
Minh Le is the author
of the graphic novel
Green Lantern Legacy,
which came out from
DC Comics last year.
He also writes picture books.
He wrote Drawn Together, which
was illustrated by Dan Santat.
And it was the winner
of the 2019 Asian Pacific
American Award for Literature.
He did Lift, as well,
with Dan Santat.
In addition to writing books,
Minh has written for a number
of national publications,
including the New York Times,
the Huffington Post, and NPR.
Welcome, Minh.
>> Minh Le: Thank you
so much for having me.
>> Jim Lee: Hey, man, hey.
>> Minh Le: Hey, how's it going?
I love that we're just kind
of taking turns coming up
and standing out and then
trying to embarrass you.
I guess it's my turn, because
I was thinking about this,
and Gene mentioned
your X Men run earlier.
And I have to confess that I
spent so much time when I was
in school trying to replicate
your Wolverine instead
of paying attention in class.
And it was, that was my
education in junior high,
just trying to recreate
some of the stuff
that you've been putting out.
So, it's really such an honor to
get to chat with you like this.
>> Jim Lee: Awesome.
Thank you very much.
I, you know, I had
the same experience.
I was drawing all the time,
grade school, high school,
you know, I would
draw on the notebooks,
the teachers would rip the
paper or the notebooks from me,
I would just draw straight
onto the desks themselves, man,
like just whatever was driving
me I couldn't turn it off,
I guess, right?
>> Minh Le: I wish I still had
it, but I think I had a pair
of pants that I was like
doodling on, like a picture
of Wolverine on the pants,
and just totally ruined,
and my parents are like, you
have paper, why don't you draw?
>> Jim Lee: And I never thought
about drawing on clothing.
It had to be a flat
hard surface.
>> Minh Le: Well, maybe
that's why my skills kind
of petered out.
>> Jim Lee: Right,
right, right, right.
>> Minh Le: But, yeah, I wanted
to talk to you a little bit
about like your role
as a creator.
Because one of the things
I was interested in is
that in your career,
you've tackled
like so many iconic characters.
And so when you're
working on that,
how do you incorporate an
individual's like rich history,
while also bringing something
new and fresh to a character?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, you
know, for me, because some
of these characters were
like my friends growing up,
my imaginary friends
growing up, I, you know,
I remember just drawing
them, and it was really
about bringing them to life
and understanding how gesture
and body language are
critical I think in bringing
out personality, even if they're
not saying a line of dialogue
in that particular panel.
I tried not to have people
just kind of all stand
in the same position
straight up and down.
I really tried to
bring their personality
to life through the art.
And there's like a panel in like
X Men '94, I think, or early on,
but, anyway, it's like the X
Men that are all in the foyer
of the X Mansion and Professor
X has brought them all there,
and I think Wolverine is
sitting there on the table,
and he's got one claw out,
and he's playing Tic Tac Toe,
he's like dug the claw into the
table, you know, and I'm like,
oh, my gosh, he's trashing this
fine piece of antique furniture.
And he was saying something
that had nothing to do
with what he was doing.
And to me, like I don't know if
that was in the script or not,
but I think that's like, to
me, like a classic example
of how little things like that
bring out the personality.
And I just remember
really responding to that.
And so, again, you know, you
file that away as a reader
and go like, when I draw these
characters or any characters,
I want to be able to kind
of bring those moments
to life in that same way.
And I think that's how I
approached these iconic
characters, as, you know, what
is the humanity inside them,
what's the personality
inside these characters,
and how do I bring it to
life through the visuals,
even if the dialogue
is slightly different?
>> Minh Le: Yeah, no, that's a
great, that's a great response.
And I was kind of curious,
on a, related to that,
but on a larger scale, like
one of the big differences
between DC Comics and like a
more traditional publisher is
that you're not just
putting out books,
but you're overseeing
like a universe.
Right? So, what are
the challenges for you
as a caretaker of something
like a universe in that way?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah,
that's a great question.
I think there's a balancing
act that we need to do.
Like we are overseers, right?
So, there's that heavy
responsibility, like the mantle,
the weight of responsibility
that you're curating,
or sort of the, you know,
safeguarding these characters
that have been around for
80 plus years at this point.
Right? They're beloved, they
are fixtures of pop culture,
they are iconic all
over the world.
And but at the same time, we
recognize that over the years,
we've had to change them
and update their mythology
to keep them fresh
and contemporary.
Right? So, we can't
just let them sit idle.
They can't be frozen in amber.
We have to intervene and kind
of bring them into the present.
How do we do that?
What do we update?
How do we update?
And I think that's the
balance we have to find.
And so I think that is
our primary challenge.
>> Minh Le: Yeah, speaking of
like that kind of like sense
of refreshing and
updating, New 52 is like one
of like the most radical things
to happen to the DC universe.
And one of the biggest
shifts in DC's history.
Can you talk a little bit
about like how that came about
and what that was like?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, you
know, I think that came
out of a creative
sort of symposium.
We brought a lot of
our creatives together
at New York Comic Con right
after New York Comic Con I
believe, and we were talking
about what we were
planning on doing
with the characters
going forward.
And we just kind of talked
about each individual character.
And then when we got to
Superman, we talked about kind
of his situation, being
married to Lois, and, you know,
talking about the early
origins of that character
and how there was this weird
love triangle between Clark,
who loved Lois, Lois
who loved Superman,
but Superman was Clark,
right, and, and, you know,
how we could address that.
And I think that's when
the first idea like, well,
what happens if we kind
of reboot the universe?
That would allow us
to sort of tackle it
from a fresh new perspective,
even though we're revisiting
kind of an old trope,
an old sort of relationship.
And then when we start talking
about all the characters
and what could be
unlocked by, you know,
kind of rebooting the universe,
it just got everyone's sort
of creative juices
going, and this excitement
and momentum built, and that's
kind of what led to the genesis
of New 52, sort of what cool
creative stories could we tell
if we were doing this.
Right? We don't want to
just do it, renumber it,
because you know you're going
to get a certain amount of,
you know, buyer, you know, fan
buy in, and your sales will go
up because you're
doing new number ones.
But we wanted to
actually, you know,
present a fresh creative take
on these classic characters
that have been around
for many, many decades.
And that was super exciting.
And not just for the creative
work, but it was also something
that really unified and brought
the entire company together.
And on top of that, we
decided we'd go day and day
with our digital books.
That pipeline had never
been really built.
That was a whole new way of
creating and releasing content.
So, every single part of DC
from manufacturing production
to publicity to sales to
distribution, editorial,
of course, was involved.
And it was a great unifier.
It was just a great,
great experience
bringing that to life.
And, you know, I think
the first two years
of it were just magical.
Obviously everything that we
set out to do we achieved.
The numbers were incredible.
We went back to impress
multiple to like I think six
or seven times on our first
releases that came out.
So, seeing that kind of
response from the fan base,
seeing the excitement from
the retailers, was, you know,
it was, it was, you know, it
was magical and made us giddy,
I think, you know, it was
just really, really awesome
to be part of something
big like that
that just really kind
of reinvented DC.
>> Minh Le: Yeah, I love hearing
that kind of behind the scenes
and hearing how organic it felt,
or it seems like that
whole process was.
Because when we think
about the DC universe,
a lot of times it feels very
much like a living entity.
And so I was wondering, when
you think about its evolution,
do you have any particular hopes
for the future of DC comics?
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, I, you know,
I think, you know, we've been,
we're in the process, I think,
of continuing to update,
you know, like going back
to what I originally said
about kind of the
twin challenges.
Right?
You want to preserve and curate
and keep what's special
about the characters.
But at the same time,
continually push them
into the future, because
I think if you don't,
they can become sort of, you
know, nostalgic, you know,
products of yesteryear and
not what really defines
and drives pop culture
in the here and now.
And when I think about our
challenges or our opportunities,
you know, I would love for
DC to be even more embraced
by fans all around the world.
Right? Not just the
North American market.
And I think there's huge
upside and opportunities
in the global marketplace
as we bring our characters
to our fans everywhere.
But at the same time, I think we
owe it to our fans to continue
to diversify, right,
and make sure
that our universe really
reflects the diversity
that we see in our readership
all around the world.
Right? And that doesn't
mean just sort of coming
up with characters
from this country
and kind of checking the box.
I think it's, it's deeper
than that, it's about finding,
you know, authentic voices from
the countries themselves that,
that, you know, and
give them their break
into mainstream comics, and
teach them how, you know,
our business works and
sort of the methodology
of creating comics and
welcome, welcoming them
into our creative community.
Right? So, it's
about diversifying our
creative community as well.
And I think, you know,
and then you have
to really effectively do this,
I think you need that also
within your own company.
I think the company itself needs
to be more reflective
of, of our aspirations.
And I think, you know,
looking at DC now
versus DC 10 years ago, I,
the company is different.
I think the product line,
the stable of characters
is different.
But we still have a lot
of work ahead of us.
Like how do we, you know, I
would love to create a bunch
of South Korean characters,
heroes and villains,
not just one, but
just a whole kind
of subcorner of the DC universe.
That would be really fun to
kind of unlock and create.
So, I think there's
a lot of great things
and opportunities
for us going forward.
So, I think that's the mindset
that we all share right now.
>> Minh Le: Yeah,
no, that's great.
And personally, I just wanted
to take a second to thank you,
because I really appreciate
how much care you've taken
with not just individual
characters,
but kind of like the universe
as a whole, and how much you've,
the role you've played in
shaping the world of comics.
I really appreciate that.
And it's been a pleasure
to talk to you.
Thank you.
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, and thank
you for, you know, creating Tai
and bringing him into the Green
Lantern family of characters.
I mean, I don't know if there's
been another Green Lantern
that was like generational,
right,
that was passing
within the family.
And I think kind of
that speaks to Asian,
you know, culture and heritage.
And I think it was just a great
way of kind of marrying two kind
of big ideas together
and getting something
that's really unique
and has really diversified
obviously our mythology
and brought us a really
special character,
so thank you for that.
>> Minh Le: Oh, no, thank
you for the opportunity.
It's been a, it's been an honor.
>> Jim Lee: Well, I'm a big
Green Lantern legacy fan
as well.
That's, that book has made
its rounds in our family over
and over and over again.
>> Minh Le: I was just
saying like, you know,
like our content
comes from everywhere.
Right? I mean, obviously there's
the stuff that we produce
in house through
the publishing line.
But, you know, Harley Quinn
was creating the Batman,
the animated series,
you know, and, you know,
when there's a good
idea, it doesn't matter
where it comes from,
and so I love the fact
that the character
is actually part
of the DC Festival
of Heroes book.
I want to just plug
that for a second.
Right? So, you know, spearheaded
by our amazing editor Jessica
Chen, I think it's out in May.
But like, you know,
it's an anthology
of all the great
amazing Asian characters
within the DC universe.
And it's great to be, to have,
you know, Tai represented
in that, in that lineup.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
Sarah Kuhn is the writer
of the acclaimed graphic
novel Shadow of the Batgirl,
which is illustrated
by artist Nicole Goux.
Sarah's also the author of the
popular Heroine Complex novels
of the beloved Japan [inaudible]
romantic comedy I Love You
So Mochi.
And the Star Wars audio
book original Doctor Aphra.
Sarah's newest novel is From
Little Tokyo, With Love,
a modern fairy tale with
a half Japanese heroine.
She is also the finalist of
The CAPE New Writers Award
and the Astounding Award
for Best New Writer.
Welcome, Sarah.
>> Sarah Kuhn: Thank
you so much.
It's so exciting to be here.
I'm so honored to get, to talk
to Jim Lee, and with all of you.
I mean, I've just been
sitting here the entire time
and really taking
this in as like a fan.
And then it was like, oh,
right, I have to do something.
So, I will do something
now and ask some questions.
And, you know, Jim, I just
wanted to say that like Minh,
I have really loved being part
of the young readers line.
It's been so much fun.
It's been such an honor.
And I feel like through that
I've been able to write stories
that I think resonate especially
with young Asian American girls,
which is really,
really important to me.
So, I wanted to ask
you, you know,
that's kind of what the
line has meant to me.
I was wondering if you
could talk a little bit
about what having that line
at DC has meant to you.
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, look, I think
one of the things, you know,
comics started out as really a
medium for very young children
of disposable, right,
entertainment.
And then as it got a
little progressively older
as the fans stayed with it and
then became creators themselves,
and we've done a great job of
kind of servicing that audience
and that marketplace, but in
a way we've kind of abandoned
like the younger end of things.
Right? Like the younger readers.
And we've tried, like we tried,
like sometimes we'll take comics
and we'll use simpler
vocabulary, simpler art styles,
and then it wouldn't return
the results that we expected,
like the audience didn't
gravitate towards that.
And then at the same time, we
were seeing tremendous success
in the YA space, like, you know,
if you measured just
the business metrics,
the fastest growing piece of
it in the book market, was,
you know, the books for young
adults, and middle readers.
And obviously, you know,
the success like Araina
[phonetic] Tagalmyer [phonetic],
and like, like whoa, you know,
like that's where the kids are.
And so we came up with a
strategy of like, you know,
tapping into people like
yourself, and then people
that had success in
this marketplace.
You know, maybe we should
tailor make something
for that audience, like we
shouldn't necessarily lean
on our creatives and just
simplify the language
and the art.
Like maybe there's a
different way of doing it.
And out of that idea came
the, it was the genesis
for middle readers line and
our YA line, really driven by,
you know, Michele Wells, Bobbie
Chase at the time, Marie Javins,
Jim Chadwick, Sarah Miller.
I'm sure I'm missing
some other people.
And they brought together
this really eclectic
and interesting line up of
creatives that hadn't, you know,
you're an exception, I think,
but a lot of them had
never written, you know,
in the comic book space before.
And really, and we gave
them the creative freedom.
This is the biggest part,
to really reinvent
these characters.
Right? They're not like, you
know, your Batgirl is, yeah,
it's Cassandra Cain, but
it's a different origin.
You've introduced
new characters.
You really made it
for the audience
that would want to read it.
Right? And I think that's really
exciting, and it's something
that was long overdue.
And so now we have a way of
reaching readers 6 to 11,
13 plus, whatever, you know,
however categorize
the two groups.
And that's something
we were missing before.
And also the really important,
you know, female readership,
because that is the
bigger piece of it all.
And our content can be very, you
know, male centric in its focus.
And so I think in many ways it
helped supplement what we were
doing kind of in the
traditional direct market space.
>> Sara Kuhn: And you
were saying, you know,
like a lot of the creators
on this line were kind
of updating characters.
I really liked what you said to
Minh about how kind of evolving,
you know, both the DCU, but also
other pockets of this space,
like there is a need to sort
of update, to diversify,
to make these characters
resonate for a modern audience.
But I'm just wondering
for you, you know, having,
being such a legend in this
business, having created
and worked on so many like
amazing iconic characters,
what was it like for you
when you started kind
of seeing new versions
of these characters?
Was it exciting?
Were you like, oh, that's
not how I remember it?
Or like what was
that experience like,
just seeing like these
new designs and new takes
on these characters come in?
>> Jim Lee: Right.
I think it was, it was,
I'll tell you at first
when the art came in,
particularly, and it looked more
like traditional art, but
maybe a little softer in terms
of the application
of the line work,
I remember Dan [inaudible] you
know what, this feels too much
like what we're doing.
We actually wanted the
line to look different.
And that, I think that's
where Nicole came in
and the spot color, like the
limited palette of it all,
and the expressiveness
of her line
and the way she brought
Cassandra to life,
I think that's what it needed.
It should be its own thing.
It shouldn't necessarily
look like a different version
of what we do over here.
It should be its own vibrant,
you know, creatively driven,
you know, kind of line of books.
And so I was excited for that.
And I think, you know,
reimagining these characters
for a younger audience,
you know,
Cassandra Cain has a pretty,
like it's a pretty tough,
you know, origin story.
And you took elements of that
and then added other elements
to make it a little softer,
I think more inviting
to younger readers.
Jackie's a fantastic
introduction to the mythology.
So, I think there's a lot of
great stuff there that works.
And we should be open to
that, because when you think
about the evolution of even
the most iconic characters
like Batman or Superman, there
were a lot of twists and turns
and different versions
of the character.
Even the radio, the Superman
radio shows had a different take
on, you know, his origin.
Just for some random reason, I
was just listening to him again.
Like, whoa, that's, that's not
the way I remember his origin
story being and stuff.
And I think that's kind of how
these characters are created.
It's talent sourced, but
curated by the editors.
So, when you introduce
something really cool,
to me like we should take those
cool elements and weave it
into what we're doing in the,
sort of the comic book
continuity over here.
And that's, I think
that's how it should work.
I think, you know, what Minh's
doing, has done with Tai is,
well, is there a way to
incorporate this somehow?
And that's, and look, if we
can bring a character back
from life, we can figure
out ways to incorporate this
and make it make sense.
So, that's the way I look at it.
And everything should
be an inspiration
and help drive the line,
especially if it's a great idea.
>> Sarah Kuhn: Yeah.
No, that's all really
cool to hear.
Because I do think, you
know, superheroes are kind
of our modern mythologies.
Right? So, they kind of,
those stories change,
depending on who's telling
it or whose point of view,
whose point of view it is.
And I think that's
just so interesting.
And I love that you say,
you know, you might want
to find ways to incorporate
some of these new characters
into different parts of the DCU.
That's something else I
was going to ask about.
Because obviously you have
characters who debuted
in the line, like Minh's
Vietnamese American
Green Lantern.
Or you mentioned Jackie, who
is, you know, a character Nicole
and I created, who
we thought was kind
of the classic Asian
American auntie.
You know, I really wanted
Cassandra to have an older woman
who was an Asian American role
model, because that's something
that certainly helped
me in my career.
So, can you think
of, do you think
that there will ever be more
of an effort to bring some
of these characters
into the main universe?
Because I do feel like Jackie
would have a lot of advice
for all the DC [inaudible].
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, look, there's
a flexibility in all.
Like, you know, I think like
Superman, how many stories were,
both his parents or dead, or one
survives, or they're both alive,
and it's changed over the years.
So, you know, I'd like the
introduction of a, you know,
obviously you have
Batgirl in there as well,
and that was kind of, you know,
aligned with what was done,
you know, in the
direct market, you know,
in the mainstream
continuity of all.
But, you know, Jackie,
as another influence,
I think that's great, because,
you know, in a weird way,
her she was very one
dimensional, I think,
and it brought a different
element to that character.
So, you know, figuring out,
you know, and like, you know,
where's Batman without,
you know, Alfred?
And so that's the kind
of thing, like, you know,
you can't discount those kinds
of characters and the value
and what they bring
to the universe.
So, again, I think it's
just a matter of, you know,
finding a creator that has
a passion for it, yourself,
you know, included, that figures
out a way to bring in a version
of Jackie that obviously,
you know, it's inspired
or it resonates with the
one that you did in Shadow
of a Batgirl, but is
slightly different and fits
into the Cassandra
Cain mythology
that was created over here.
And I think that's a great way
of bringing readers that might,
you know, discover DC
through our young reader line.
And then when they
sort of migrate over,
or if they're interested in the
floppies or the comic book side
of things, to find
those connection points,
even though they're
slightly different
or reflected differently,
because not everything
aligns 100%.
So, I think we welcome the fact
that the writers were doing
their own thing with it,
with the characters, because
they had an obligation
to their audience to deliver
something that was meaningful
and entertaining to them.
And it's not always
necessarily the same things
that drive our other
audiences in other [inaudible].
>> Sarah Kuhn: Right, right.
Okay, so finally, I just wanted
to wrap up by asking you,
this is something that kind of
goes back to things you talked
about on all sections of
this panel, I really loved
in the beginning when you
were talking with Gene
about how you just kind
of consumed, you know,
all geek things as a kid, like
all comics, everything that was
out there, I think
that's a mindset
that will be very
familiar to all of us.
And so you've always been known,
you know, for just being really
into all different
kinds of comics.
Not necessarily just the
thing you're creating,
just the genre you're creating.
And, you know, when we were
getting ready for this panel,
we were kind of talking
about how back
in the 90s you were sort
of known for going to a lot
of alternative comics events.
Maybe not just superheroes.
Which was perhaps seen as a
bit unusual for, you know,
a superhero, creator and artist.
So, I just wanted
to know, you know,
where does that just curiosity
come from that decided to sort
of know about all of
these different things?
>> Jim Lee: I think it's just,
you know, because I see myself,
I think, in anyone that's
obsessed with something,
to the point where
they have to do it
and they congregate together,
even if the content
itself is very different
from what I would do, I think
I went to eighth, and I've been
to like, you know,
the Anime, no,
Anime LA is what it's called.
It was the big convention in LA.
And then there was
one in like Lancaster.
I've gone to a bunch
of different shows.
And that, the anime
stuff was driven really
by my three daughters that
were really into Monga,
they were into TOKYOPOP.
And they were into that so
intently, I was like, all right,
I can connect with
them through the love
of what they're reading,
but, you know,
the material is so different.
And I love Monga, you
know, the Tomo, Akira,
and the Churo [phonetic]
Masamune [phonetic] apple seed,
they were big influences to me.
So, but I just, I think
I just loved the fact
that when people find
their calling, like it's,
like it's unavoidable,
they are almost
like they can't help themselves.
And I'm kind of attracted
to that kind of behavior.
And I think they're
just, you know,
you want to experience that.
I think to me like the
whole zine culture,
something that wasn't around
when I was a kid, but if I knew
of it, I know for sure I would
have drawn comics, stapled it,
then tried to sell
them online, you know,
through whatever marketplace
existed at the time.
And so it just interests me
to see all the different
expressions of fandom
and how powerful that
can be, to the point
where [inaudible] cosplay to
anime expo I think my kids said.
That was, like they
would read the Monga,
and then they would create
the costumes and then go
to the conventions, and I, and
I dressed up as like Asuma,
I think, from Naruto
or something.
I don't know.
It was the old guy with
like the cigarette.
So, I did that, and it
just gives you insight
to the diversity of fandom,
because sometimes we get trapped
in our own little kind
of little, you know,
snow globes of, you know,
and you can't see beyond it.
And I think it's vital to
understand that storytelling is
so powerful and meaningful
to people.
And it is not limited to just
the content that you love.
And in many ways, there
are bigger, you know,
arenas of storytelling
that exist,
or bigger groups of fandom.
And in a weird way, I was
just attracted and interested
in learning more about these
other very kind of obsessed fans
that I could connect
to in their, you know,
in their fandom, but I
didn't necessarily love the
same material.
So, that was kind
of the driver of it.
>> Sarah Kuhn: Very cool.
Well, I think that definitely
shows in what you have done
with the DCU as a whole, and all
of these different
kind of pockets of it.
Thank you very much for
answering a few questions.
It is, again, an
honor to be here.
And I think now we
are back to Gene.
>> Jim Lee: Thank you, Sarah.
>> Gene Luen Yang: Yeah, don't
go anywhere, though, Sarah.
I'd like to invite
Bernard and Minh back
onto the virtual stage.
And we're going to,
we're going to end
by just talking like Asians.
Because we're here not just
to, not just to celebrate Jim,
but also to celebrate Asian
Pacific American Heritage Month.
A question for all of us.
Asian Americans are kind of
having a moment right now.
It's not necessarily
for the best of reasons.
Right? The hashtag stop
Asian hate is trending all
over the place in both our
social media and our news.
And many of Americans,
many Americans,
not just Asian Americans,
but all Americans,
are finally becoming aware
of Asian American issues.
What sort of responsibility
do you think this moment puts
on our shoulders as Asian
American storytellers?
>> Bernard Chang: And
I'll jump in a little bit.
And I think it's interesting
during times like this
as a creator, like
you try to think
about like what role
that we can play.
And I started to think about a
lot when I'm telling the kids is
that the underlying racism
or the overt racism that's
behind all of this is
as a creator in makes me think
about the fact that racism is
like a profound failure
of the imagination.
And like how we as people
put content out there,
who put out stories that
celebrate our broader humanity,
have a, play a role
in counteracting
that, that failure.
Right? And have,
flushing out the,
ourselves for the
broader community.
So, that's the thing that I
hope as people who write stories
and celebrate the power of
stories, I hope that's something
that we can do, and that that
is playing at least some role
in counteracting all this.
>> Sarah Kuhn: I would say
that, you know, when I think
about this, I still think
of my responsibility
to Asian American audiences.
I don't necessarily think of it,
you know, as a responsibility
to a broader audience.
I think of it really
as a responsibility to,
to my readers, many
of whom are, you know,
young Asian American people.
And in that sense, I think
it's a similar thing.
I want to have stories out
there, both for me as a creator
and by, you know, people that
I think all of you people
that I think of as my
colleagues that really show
and celebrate all different
kinds of experiences,
that show that we can
really be anything,
that we can do anything,
because, you know,
I think like with something
like, like that girl,
like my version of
Cassandra, you know,
part of her struggle is that
she feels like she is not worthy
of that mantle, she is not
worthy of being a superhero,
she is not worthy kind of
of being a main character.
And I have certainly
talked a lot about how
in my real life I did not
think I was the main character
for a very long time because
I just never saw that,
I never saw Asian Americans
centered in the kinds
of stories I enjoyed, or a lot
of times as creators, you know,
as a kid, I think, you
know, Jim Lee was one
of the few Asian American
creators that I was like, wow,
that's someone doing
that who is like me.
So, I do feel that very deeply
to be able to show that variety
of stories, variety
of perspectives,
and to really show all
those, all those kids
and younger readers, and,
you know, adults like me
who didn't really realize
until later in life
that I too could be a
main character, you know,
you were important, you matter.
Whatever you are going
through, whatever you are doing,
you are always worthy of
being the main character.
>> Jim Lee: I can
just build onto that.
The great thoughts.
And, you know, to
me, I think for me,
it wasn't just seeing
myself, but I think we need
to represent these
characters in a great way.
Growing up, you know, in the
70s and 80s, I was embarrassed,
I think, by a lot of, like if
I saw an Asian character on TV,
it was never presented in
a pros light, you know,
or Charlie Chan was actually
portrayed by a Caucasian actor.
Or, you know, even Bruce
Lee, who's super cool now,
was something that was of
great embarrassment to me.
And, because, you know, kids
would tease me about it.
And, you know, it's just, and
it's heartbreaking to think
of kids that are ashamed about
their culture or who they are,
how they look, or how they fit
into the wider culture
of it all.
So, I think as storytellers,
we want to, you know,
present kick ass representations
of these kick ass,
you know, Asian characters.
And I think that's vital.
And I think the other
thing is really, you know,
we need more creatives, we
need more Asians, you know,
like I was saying about kind
of what our mission at DC,
we need to bring
in wider diversity
in our creative talent pool.
And I think that's
a big part of it.
And then more broadly speaking,
I just think we need more Asian
leaders in general, we need,
you know, in politics,
in Hollywood, obviously,
in all the facets that kind of
control, if you really think
about it, our culture
and our destiny.
And, you know, and I
feel more galvanized
about this than ever before.
I'll just share a
personal story.
You know, the other
day, you know,
I've been helping
my parents move,
downsize from a two story
house to a one story.
My dad's like 87,
my mom's 83, 84.
And one of the houses that
we looked at had a driveway,
and the driveway just kind
of blended into the driveway
of the next door family.
And they were like, and I
could see that would feel
like it was a little awkward
the way it was laid out.
May dad, you know, shared
with me, like, you know,
I don't think this is the
right house for us because what
if the neighbors don't like
Asians, and like, you know,
we're going to have
these problems.
And I just, you know, it kind
of broke my heart to hear him,
like, you know, he
gave up everything,
moved here as a doctor to help
people over his entire life,
and that was his first thought
about, well, there are people
out there that don't
like Asians,
and I have to be careful
and be aware of that.
And it just, you know, seemed
really, such an antiquated,
or such a, you know,
awful lot to have.
And it really just sort
of, again, motivated me,
like we have to, we have
to make a difference.
And to me, the way you do that
is by getting more involved,
becoming decision
makers, and making sure
that we are represented in every
facet of life and entertainment.
>> Bernard Chang: I
think I had a story
when I first got my
first job drawing comics
at [inaudible] Bob
Laden was my mentor,
Bob being [inaudible]
legend in comics.
Halfway through my first
assignment, which was a fill
in issue, Bob came to
me and said, Bernard,
we want you to draw
a monthly book.
And we're going to launch
you with a number one issue.
And would you like to be, would
you like to be the artist?
I was 20. I had a lot
of cajones back then.
I said Bob, I will draw this
book on one contingency.
He said, what is that, Bernard?
I said, if you make the
lead an Asian American male,
an Asian American male
who didn't know Kung Fu,
but was a lover, not a fighter.
And, you know, and it became a
book called Dr. Meraj, you know,
but I think it's also, like
you said, Jim, you know,
taking risks, being
observant, absorbing everything,
but also taking risks, and being
able to put yourself out there
in order to create
characters that represent us
and that aren't stereotypical,
but are wide ranging.
>> Gene Luen Yang: That's
actually a great lead
in to announcing a book
that we are all involved in,
everybody on this panel,
and we're all proud of.
DC Festival of Heroes will be
debuting this May, just in time
for Asian Pacific
American Heritage Month.
How, what, what does this
book mean to us as creators,
as Asian American creators?
>> Jim Lee: Well, Gene and I
get to, we get to work on our,
create a new character
called Monkey Prints.
And, you know, thanks
to Jessica and Gene.
I mean, it's loosely
based on Monkey King.
And as a kid, as an immigrant
growing up in the states here,
I read a lot of American comics.
But I didn't know
how to read Chinese.
And so my dad saw that I
took a liking to all these,
you know, superheroes.
And he said, you know, I've
got a Chinese superhero.
And he started reading
to me bedtime stories
about the monkey king.
And so I would go
to sleep and dream
about these wondrous
worlds and adventures.
And to be able to create
a new character based off
of that legendary mythology
is a life dream come true.
So
>> Jim Lee: You know, I am
excited for this, because,
you know, it's shocking to me
that it's the first time
we've done this in, you know,
the 80 plus years that
DC has been around.
I want to thank, you
know, editor Jessica Chen,
really her brainchild, and
really a force of nature
that brought this together.
And excited as I am for this
first issue, this debut issue,
I know that we're probably
going to do this every year.
And it's just going
to grow as a program.
And so I'm really
excited for that.
And if this can inspire
young people to want
to become creatives themselves,
I feel like that's something
that has become a big part of
what I do now is like, you know,
the work is great,
it entertains people,
people look up to the content.
But it can also be
very transformative.
It can inspire people
to become creative,
not necessarily comic
book artists or writers,
but just anything in
the creative arts.
And I think that's vital,
especially amongst Asians where,
you know, you're a failure if
you don't become like a doctor
or a lawyer or something
like that.
So, I look forward to the
generations of comic book fans
that this inspires and
brings into the industry.
>> Sarah Kuhn: And I
also wanted to make sure
that we mention also, you know,
obviously the wonderful
Jessica Chen,
but also the wonderful
Andrea Shay, who is, I think,
her partner in crime, editor on
this, and was kind of the person
that brought me into it.
I got to write a story about
Emiko Queen, a Red Arrow,
and that's with the marvelous
Victoria Ying doing the art,
and that was really cool because
I think it might be the first
time I have written a half
Japanese comic book character,
which is what I am.
And that was very exciting.
But I wanted to especially
mention Andrea because,
you know, both Andrea
and Sarah Miller,
who was my amazing editor
on Shadow of a Batgirl,
remembered by, at my
failed application
to the DC Writers'
Workshop years ago.
And they both mentioned that
when we got to work together.
And I think that really speaks
to kind of what has come
up a few times here about not
just the importance of having,
you know, us as creators
come into it,
but also having gatekeepers who
understand why it's important
to have that authenticity, to
have the diversity of voices,
to, you know, kind of
remember someone's, you know,
failed application from years
ago, that they're like, oh,
what about that person,
or when, you know,
I just come across their
desk, they remember me.
So, I think that is something
that's very important too
in making, you know,
these, these characters
and these [inaudible] and
these heroes into sort
of modern versions
of themselves.
So, yeah, for me, it was
just really exciting for all
of those reasons to get to
work on it, to work with Jess,
to work with Andrea, Victoria,
it was all just so, so much fun.
>> Jim Lee: Yeah, for
me, it's great to revisit
and to do some Tai and
his grandmother again.
I got to do a short story
with [inaudible] who's
such an amazing Vietnamese
artist.
And just the idea that there
are enough Asian American
superheroes to have an anthology
is kind of mind-blowing to me
that there's this whole
constellation of superheroes
out there now that
didn't necessarily exist
to this extent when
we were kids.
Like Gene, you mentioned
what this is going to mean
to a new generation of creators.
I feel like they're, like
readers now are starting
at such a, so much further ahead
than we were when we were kids,
that it makes me excited to
think about, like you said,
like what, where they're
going to take the storytelling
in this next generation.
So, it just makes me excited
to think about the readers
and the seeds that it's
planting in the next generation
of books that are to come.
>> Roswell Encina: Absolutely.
>> Gene Luen Yang:
I'm so excited.
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
>> Roswell Encina:
No, no, go ahead.
I was just thanking Sarah for
reminding me the other sort
of partner in crime
that Jessica had.
So
>> Gene Luen Yang:
Yeah, that's right.
And I was going to say, I'm so
excited about this book not just
as a creator, but also as a fan.
Like Bernard said, the Monkey
King, the monkey print story
that we're doing, which
is based on the legend
of the Monkey King, is a, is
a bucket list item for me.
You know? I think
many of us who grew
up with Monkey King stories
have always wanted to marry him
with Western superhero
traditions.
And this is our way of
doing it in the DC universe.
And Sarah mentioned how, you
know, how you never saw yourself
as a main character in any of
the stories that you grew up in.
And Minh talked about how
racism really is this failure
of imagination.
I think this book covers
both of those things.
Right? This is a book full of
imagination, with characters
who are like us as
main characters.
That's something that
would have blown my mind
when I was a 10 year
old for sure.
Well, I think that
about wraps up our time.
I want to thank Jim.
I think I want to thank all
of you, but especially Jim.
I think as just, I have
to say, I think, you know,
being a teenager and seeing you
progress through your career,
seeing the comics
that you created,
they provided endless
amounts of inspiration for me.
I really genuinely think
that your example changed
the course of my life.
It gave me a different way
of talking about comics
with my parents, you know,
with my immigrant parents.
So, I want to thank
you for that.
And I want to thank
Sarah and Minh
and Bernard for joining me here.
And also to the Library
of Congress
for hosting this amazing event.
>> Bernard Chang:
Thank you, Gene.
>> Jim Lee: Yeah,
thank you, Gene.
Thank you, guys, like really,
this has been an incredible
experience, and I look forward
to seeing you guys
and thanking you all
in person hopefully very soon.
>> Roswell Encina:
Thanks, everyone.
>> Jim Lee: Thank you.