>> Monica Mohindra: Thank you for joining us for this annual Library of Congress Veterans History Project Post Traumatic Stress panel discussion. I'm Monica Mohindra, the Acting Director of the Veterans History Project. For 20 years, with help from individuals, organizations, and communities across the country, we have been collecting, preserving, and making accessible the firsthand accounts of U.S. veterans from World War I through the current conflicts. These over 111,000 stories in the archive represent an impressive achievement and an enriching source for greater understanding of our collective history. But with over 19 million more veterans, we need and rely on people like you to sit down with a veteran in your life, in your community, your loved ones and record their story so that we can share it with researchers across the nation and the world. Please join us to help gather the story of the veteran in your community or your experience of service by visiting www.loc.gov/vets. That's www.loc.gov/vets. While VHP collects plenty of stories about struggle, sacrifice, and successes in the military, some of the toughest struggles of a veteran's life persist long after they have left their military service. Post traumatic stress affects nearly 13% of U.S. veterans and confronting these life altering symptoms is as much part of their story as anything that happens while they are in service. That's why we conduct these annual panels to bring attention to the different ways veterans empower themselves to combat these PTS symptoms and to shine a spotlight on people and programs dedicated to helping veterans overcome PTS. One of those people is our moderator today. Rob Jackson is a founder and director of Beats, Rhymes, and Life, an Oakland, California based nonprofit that uses hip hop therapy to promote healing of Post Traumatic Stress as well as other mental health issues through music. Under Mr. Jackson, BRL has trained over 1500 providers to lead therapeutic activity groups which have helped over 4500 youth participants overcome trauma. His is just one of the really incredible stories you'll hear today, and we hope you find it as enriching as we do. Thanks again for joining us. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you so much and it's an honor to be here today to moderate this esteemed and amazing panel. Beats, Rhymes, and Life, we cultivate dynamic, culturally congruent services that are inspired out of this need to reduce stigma and to create more therapeutic service delivery models that are culturally acceptable as well as youth centered and strength based. And so, when given this opportunity to moderate this panel and talk about how PTS is affecting veterans and affecting our communities, I just jumped at the chance, and I'm really, really excited to be here and represent for not only my organization but this important topic. And if you want to learn more about Beats, Rhymes, and Life, please follow us at hip hop therapy. Ironically and coincidentally, since 2004, actor and philanthropist Gary Sinise has been performing music and raising money for veterans with the Lieutenant Dan Band. 2004 is actually time that Beats, Rhymes, and Life started as well. In 2011, he founded the Gary Sinise Foundation which has raised nearly $200 million for veteran causes. Mr. Sinise is a passionate advocate for vets and a firsthand witness to how music can change the lives of people affected by Post Traumatic Stress. Unfortunately, Gary couldn't be with us in person today, but he recorded a message about his experiences playing for veterans and how important music can be in the healing process that we would like to play now. >> Gary Sinise: Hello. Gary Sinise here. I just wanted to take a moment to thank the Library of Congress's Veterans History Project for the honorable work you do to preserve the personal accounts of America's veterans for future generations. Thank you for giving me a few minutes today to talk about the role music can play in raising spirits of our veterans and their families. After the tragic events of September 11, 2001, my life's focus and perspective shifted as it did for many of us. It was a turning point for me. As our nation's servicemen and women were deploying in freedom's defenses, my heart went with them. I was called to do more. In 2003, about two weeks before my first trip to Iraq with the USO, I called up my pal, Vietnam veteran Kimo Williams, one of the original members, I told him I wanted to play some music that would make our service members smile and honor them with a free night out. Without knowing it, our pure love of music joined with a greater motivation, and when joy connects to mission, a life's purpose begins to take shape. It did for me. I saw how music and someone showing up for them could turn slumped shoulders into lifted spirits. That's the power of music and the importance of expressing our gratitude and appreciation for our service members. When I formed the Gary Sinise Foundation in 2011, raising spirits and supporting the mental wellness of our nation's heroes was and continues to be the heartbeat of our organization, and it is the bedrock of this mission that I continue to serve. It is critically important to me that our military service members, veterans, and their families all know that we are here for them. We are not going to forget them, and that we will always do more to support them. It all started with my love for music, for our troops, and for our country. In fact, you could say that it all started with honor, gratitude, and rock and roll. >> Rob Jackson: So, today we have really, really amazing guests with us from various parts of the nation that are all doing work around using music as a healing tool for veterans with PTS. So, for opening statements, I would like to start with our own Bob Regan. Can you please just give an introduction of yourself and talk about your work? >> Bob Regan: My name is Bob Regan. I was a professional songwriter in Nashville, Tennessee for many decades. In the early 2000s, I had the chance, the opportunity to perform on Armed Forces Entertainment Tour around the world, and I met hundreds and hundreds of servicemen and women with these amazing stories. And songwriters are natural born storytellers, so I thought let's combine the two and see what happens. So, about 1000 songs later with veterans of World War II all the way to those currently serving and their children, it just kind of took off and snowballed. It's been extremely effective, and it's been a great honor for me to be able to make this happen and also an honor to be on this panel. Hello, everyone. >> Rob Jackson: Awesome. Thank you so much, Bob. Next, we're going to go to Patrick Nettesheim. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Thank you, sir. It is an honor to be here sharing the virtual stage with all of you. This is not an easy task, not an easy mission we've set out to do, but a very important one. And so, again, I want to extend my gratitude to you all. What Guitars for Vets is is basically a modality to bring free guitars and lessons to our brothers and sisters that have served and are struggling with the challenges of Post Traumatic Stress. We are not music therapists, but it's easily argued that music can be very therapeutic for those who take part in creating it and listening to it. It's many cliches about music but that are true. It does, it is the universal language. And I'm happy to say that we have grown over the last 14 years to provide brand new guitars to over 5500 vets, 5500, and that's over 50,000 free lessons. After they take their ten free private lessons, they graduate and go into group lessons where teamwork, comradery, common mission are established and community is built. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you so much, Patrick. Last, but certainly not least, we have artist extraordinaire and our fine colleague, Mr. Doc Todd. Can you please introduce yourself? >> George "Doc" Todd: Hi. How are y'all? My name is Doc Todd. It's been, it's hard to find somewhere to start, but I guess the beginning of my journey was, you know, on the battlefields of Afghanistan in service with the Marines of [inaudible] eights Marines Echo Company. You know, six years there, but always, I always had a love for music. Have jumped around a lot of different roles in that space, whether they be like a rhythm guitar or songwriter, backup vocalist. To now being in the hip hop space. I guess I kind of really jumped on the scene in June of 2017. I released an album called "Combat Medicine" which was focused on, you know, the stories of war. It was also focused on some of the things that we go through returning, whether that be post traumatic stress or suicidal ideation, but substance abuse as well. And talking a lot about those issues in "Combat Medicine." The album got picked up by NPR, CNN, HLN, ABC, and a bunch of different news outlets, and I've been, you know, been a working solo hip hop artist since. We've got projects that continue to come out. Did a project called "Strange Pictures" where we took veteran paintings and veteran art and we interpreted them through song, and then we also made new songs and had the veteran artists interpret those songs by like scoring a painting or scoring a piece of art. To our music, and that was called "Strange Pictures." So, I've done a lot of different work in the military centric music space, as I would call it. Focus primarily on our biggest genre now which is hip hop and been doing that since 2017. So, just really, really excited to be here today and share some of my story. >> Rob Jackson: We're excited to have you, Doc Todd, as well as you Patrick. So, thank you so much for joining us on this panel today. And let's just get right into it. So, I'm going to go into individual questions for each one of you, and I'll do it into segments. So, we'll just go in reverse. And we're going to go ahead and start with you Doc Todd. And your first question is, excuse me, could you share some of the personal messages you've received regarding your music's impact on combat veterans and the quality of life? >> George "Doc" Todd: Yeah. There's several. Obviously, leave names out, but you know, I've had a lot of people reach out to me, whether that be a letter or a direct message on Instagram or the different social media outlets or via phone. I've made my phone number readily available to veterans who follow my career that says that the song "Not Alone" in particular literally saved my life. Like, that's, I'm using their words. These aren't my words. But I've had multiple instances where someone's hit me up, you know, the night that they were, you know, planning to commit suicide and said, "Hey, I was about to, you know, I was about to end it, and 'Not Alone' came on." Or you know, "I remember, you know, your song and I pressed play and decided that, you know, life is worth living." And you know, that's, as an artist, that's probably the most, I don't know how to word this properly. It's the most impactful thing, for sure, that can happen as far at it relates to someone reacting to your work is saying that it physically, you know, kept them from doing harm to themselves or other people and that it helped them to, you know, find identity in the words that you say and the things that you're talking about. To find themselves in it and to find hope and to find a reason for living. There's nothing more important than that. That's, you know, and we say in the business all the time, it's a very tough business, monetarily, financially. It's a what have you done for me lately business. It's a clickish business, and you know, that's one of the things that is constant, that does matter is the impact that it has on other people. And I have to take people at their word because I don't have any reason not to, and I don't have any way to know if what they're saying is truthful. But I feel the burden of the other side of that also because if what someone is saying is true about the positive impacts that my music had had on their life, it's also very possible that my music has impacted some people in a negative way. You know, and we're dealing with topics that are extremely sensitive and, you know, unbelievably tough and traumatic for some people. And I dance all over the line. You know, that's my role in this. That's my job in this is to speak from the battlefield and to speak from my own substance abuse issues and my own issues with Post Traumatic Stress and my own combat experiences. And I know that more often than not, the stories are always positive. In fact, I have never gotten a negative story of impact, but it does make me aware that with that being true that the other side is also possible. So, you know, I take what I do very, very seriously. I know that we're, you know, dancing in a very, very serious field, like, in that there's a lot expected of me and that I must, you know, honor what I do, and I must bring the right mindset and spirit to what I do because it does absolutely. I have no question that it impacts people's lives from all the messages and things that I've gotten that I'll talk to you about. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you, Doc Todd, and then a follow up to that is do you consider the impact of your music that it's had on veterans a byproduct of the story and the relatability, or is it a result of you taking those experiences and then approaching your work with more of an intentionality since you have now become a veteran? >> George "Doc" Todd: Wow. That's a phenomenal question. I think, I mean, hey. The, we're talking about the story. Like, I'm talking about things that these war fighters can relate to. I'm talking about being overseas. I'm talking about being in the midst of, you know, some sort of kinetic or violent activity. I'm talking about, you know, putting the bottle down or the drugs. I'm talking about, you know, waking up in a cold sweat. So, like, obviously, those things, at face value 100% story. I mean, because when they hear these things, it's like, wow. That's incredibly relatable, and wow, I've experienced this same thing. So, I think there is the sense of common story that's most important, but I definitely go into my work with intentionality to impact. I go into my work trying to positively impact. So, I'm very conscious of what the goal is. The goal's not fame. The goal's not money. The goal is impact. So, when I go into songwriting or when I go into the studio, I'm very thoughtful about the things that I'm doing, to answer your question. But I think you're right. I think mostly it's story, and then it's the fact that I do attack the work with the right mindset, I think. >> Rob Jackson: Fantastic. And before we move on to Patrick for Patrick's segment, do you think you can possibly kick an acapella for us? Maybe a couple bars of some of your powerful work. >> George "Doc" Todd: Yeah. For sure. I'm going to probably have to be quiet because of the microphone. So, yeah, no problem. [rapping] Never really thought I'd hit rock bottom again, but since I'm in the creek then, I'd better learn to swim. My mind's been battling my soul in the world so cold, regain control of my spiritual harm and never let go of the man I was before. Still stand toe for toe, go blow for blow until it's my time for growth. See, I've shown so much resilience my words have been so revealing, not appealing for y'all, for me to fall. So, I made the call to knock the damn ceilings off. There's no task too tall and no problem's too great for me to take my foot off the gas and decelerate the pace. Never too late to snap back into focus and kill these damn rodents with a flow so potent. See I gasped for breath, but I couldn't find my grip. The spectrum of humanity is making me sick. I vent through these secular words about America's curse, a beautiful burn, spectacular verse. >> Rob Jackson: Bars. Bars. That's, in my organization, we talk about discovering your authentic narrative, and I think, you know, the genuineness and the realness of which you just paint a vivid picture with your verse. If all of hip hop was like that, man, just imagine just like how amazing and how many advances we would make? Thank you so much, Doc Todd, for sharing that. That was incredible. >> George "Doc" Todd: Yes, sir. Thank you so much. >> Rob Jackson: And we will have much more questions for you in the open segment. We're going to move to Patrick. What is it about the guitar that you find particularly cathartic and healing for vets with PTS? >> Patrick Nettesheim: There's many aspects to that, Bob. One of the things that we didn't expect, and I'll start with that, is when I was working with a Marine and he had a strap on his guitar, and he was holding it. And he said, "You know, I really relaxed when I got this thing on because I fought in a lot of urban conflict in Iraq. And it was wearing my automatic rifle that gave me a sense of protection." Most people see that as a weapon of destruction, but I understood how it is viewed through the eyes of many combat vets. It's the instrument that keeps them alive and keeps their brothers and sisters safe. And so, when you come home, you don't have the same weaponry that you carried around out in the theater. Having the guitar around the neck and holding it like that gave him that sense of comfort again. That sense of protection. So, I think that's really special. When you strum a guitar, you feel it resonate in the center of your being. It has been said that we have two different brains. We have the one that's in our head, but we also have the one that is right there in our solar plex. It's that gut feeling that people get. We could also say we have one in our heart. You know, various emotions we feel in different areas of our body. Well, that guitar resonates right into the heart and right into the power center in the body. Now, I don't know what the science is between, you know, behind that being therapeutic. What I can say is we have observed it time and time again being very comforting when you start with our very first chord. We like to work with an E minor chord. It resonates into the whole being and really brings forth a lot of emotion with that. The other thing about guitar playing, there's many different modalities that get people to focus and disengage from the trance of horror that post traumatic stress can bring with it. Some people do knitting. Others do fly tying or just getting out in nature. You know, many, many different ways. Support animals. But the guitar is, it's a sexy instrument. We at, most people at some time have fantasized about being a guitar player in a band, whether it's a rock band or country or whatever that might be. And you know, to Doc Todd doing rap, there's a lot of rappers out there that have some real rocking guitars playing with them. So, it is attractive, and the thing with guitar that is really powerful as opposed to some of these other activities, it pays itself forward. You know, the sort of stuff that helps you with focus is really self-centered. And I don't mean that in a negative way. It's a different type of meditation and motion. The playing of the guitar, though, touches everybody around you. So, many can benefit from the therapeutic benefits of the harmony. And most people just see that as enjoyment. I just want to add, you know, there was a major foundation that we had talked to about a grant, and we didn't have the metrics that they wanted to see behind what it is we do. You know, we try to quantify the number of suicides you've prevented. There's no way. There's no way. You can't. We only get the ones that were attempted and the ones where they succeeded at it. So, what Doc Todd was talking about hearing these folks saying, "Hey, your song came on, saved my life," that's not evidence you can put in a mathematical equation. And this person, this grant that could write us a very significant grant said, "Well, it sounds like to me you guys just have a feel-good operation." And I was like, "Well, isn't that the point?" So, you know, one other thing I, and we did not get the grant, by the way, until we get the proper metrics. How can a nonprofit afford, you know, $250,000 to $500,000 for a good, you know, longitudinal study? A pilot study is pretty profound, but that wasn't good enough. As the Doc said, too, it is very serious what we deal with. It's life and death, and there's a lot of ways, you know, group therapy and talking, seeing your therapist, medication is indicated in some areas. Combination is probably the best. But what we really focus on is reestablishing joy. So, we take, we find something, people are doing this because they want to do it. And we find that spark that's still there in these severely clinically depressed because they would be breathing if it wasn't, and we try to throw rocket fuel on that, and that's the playing of the guitar. If you look at cancer treatment as a metaphor, you go into, you know, radiation, chemotherapy. You got to do these things to get better in many cases, but they're not fun. There's a lot of ways to work through PTS that isn't very fun. The music aspect, that is where we cultivate joy. And once you do that, it makes, in my opinion and the opinion of many that have shared them with me, the whole process, you know, much more tolerable. >> Rob Jackson: And, Patrick, I read on the Guitars for Vet websites, in quotations, "You have the opportunity to enrich the lives of those who have laid down theirs for us." And in particular, what stood out to me was that you all have developed a robust volunteer program throughout the country, and I'm hoping maybe you can speak more about what the responsibilities are of your volunteers and how do they enrich the lives of the vets who have sacrificed so much? >> Patrick Nettesheim: The main responsibility of our volunteers, and they're not all music teachers because we have to, our program is free for the vets that take part in it. So, we have to raise the money to pay for the instruments of change here and all the accessories that come along with it. But I would say the main responsibility of all volunteers, and we tell them this, is an acronym that I came up with. I call it PAGE, P for patience, A for acceptance, G for gratitude, and E for empathy. Those are the requirements. That's what all of us, we all need that, and we all need to be able to express more of that. But when you are in the throes of not sleeping for days, months, years, panic attacks, you know, staying in your cave because of all the potential dangers that lurk beyond. Whether if it's just in your mind, it's still a real thing for you and your perception. And all the judgment that society, I'll just say. I won't say all society, but many in society bring to mental illness, and in particular to vets who struggle with mental challenges. So, when you come into that nonjudgmental atmosphere and our volunteers, many which are civilians, are there because they also want to be there and they. You know, some of these lessons, these hour lessons are just conversations. It's opening up with a guitar in your arms, and then strum a few chords. It's not up to, it's not our mission to make great guitar players. It does happen from time to time. But that guitar is that catalyst for the positive human interaction. Back to the volunteer thing, though. We are truly blessed. We have over 500 volunteers throughout the United States in our 110 plus chapters. I believe we're in 43 states. We have a cyber chapter. The magic with the volunteers and the veterans we work with, especially with the civilians that volunteer like myself. I'm not a volunteer any longer. I make enough money to stay married. [laughs] I don't know why I'm laughing at that, but. It creates this estuary of civilians and veterans that come together and out of that manifests a better understanding of what it is a warfighter goes through. And a really amazing thing that comes out of this is people on the instructor side, they share, too, because guess what? PTSD, or as it's now called PTS, is not simply a malady of war fighters. It's probably, you know, I don't know if epidemic is the right word. Maybe pandemic is a stronger word here. But there's millions throughout the United States. Now, certainly, somebody in combat is just getting hammered, and so it's going to be more profound. But point is, this mission and our vets and our volunteers coming together is healing on both sides of the equation. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you, Patrick, and before we move on to Bob and talk about the Operation Song, I saw that you brought your guitar in. You want to give us a couple chords to strum a little bit for us? >> Patrick Nettesheim: I think we should come back to that as I bring in one that's in tune. >> Rob Jackson: Okay. Sounds good. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Just go to the next guest, and I'll be ready to rock. >> Rob Jackson: That sounds great. Looking forward to it. So, we're coming to you, Bob, and certainly looking forward to hearing about Operation Song. So, my question for you. How do you use the process of songwriting, creating music, to help veterans with PTS process their experiences and emotions? >> Bob Regan: Again, we are not, as Pat said, we're not therapists. But it can be very therapeutic. So, basically, I think this is kind of, I think this is how the process of Operation Song works, and this is how I think it's effective. So, [clears throat] we do two kinds of programs, our one-on-one which have in person up until this last year, but then we switched over to virtual which is really remarkably effective as well. And then we have group sessions where a group of anywhere from four to six veterans will meet with a songwriter or two over the ten-week period. But the process is essentially the same. You just get the veteran or their family member talking. It's very low pressure. Nobody goes into this saying, "You've got to write a song. You need a particular skillset other than storytelling or musical ability." We almost prefer they are those with whom we work have no previous songwriting experience. We just start with a conversation, and if you can get people talking, they'll almost always get around to what's important to them. And these songwriters, then all the songwriters we use are skilled professionals. They're, you know, Grammy Award winners, all very accomplished professionals, and they're very empathetic and adaptive, just starting that conversation, building trust in a [inaudible] we have to do. So, that's the first thing. Once you get somebody talking, and again, they get around to what's important to them. And songwriters have these antenna and we're listening for these phrases, and when they say something, you can go, "Now, wait a minute. You said this, and you know, how does this sound?" You put some chords and a melody to that, and it's just immediately disarming. It's like, turning a lock and the tumblers line into place, and the door opens. And myself and all the songwriters we work with are always just very gratified and sort of incredulous at how quickly people will open up in the situation because we are not therapists. We are not friends. We are not family. We're just a completely, you know, someone with no dog in the hunt. Our only intention, our only purpose is to help them tell their story. So, once you get somebody talking, and they may not, if you have PTS and you're suffering from some trauma that you've gone through, your emotions and your experiences are scattered, and they're weighted. You have triggers and all these different things that are, you're having trouble sorting them out. But in the process of songwriting, you can hang all this, everything these people say, and sometimes in the sessions, I've had veterans talk to me for three hours before I'll even take up the guitar. I was just taking notes with their permission. And then, sort of thinking, I think this is what you keep coming back to. This is the big idea. So, that's our chorus. And then, how did we get there? So, you can take their words, just massage them slightly to make them rhyme, and then all of a sudden, you've taken all this big jumble of chaotic experiences and emotions and hang them on a narrative arc with a beginning and a middle and an end. And with the music that props it up and fortifies it and amplifies it. It's very cathartic. And again, when someone hears their own words sung back to them in a genre that they, we always say what genre of music do you like. You know, we cover a lot, not everything. We can't do, this is Nashville, by the way. So, it's, Nashville's a story town, and these are stories. But anyway, I think that's what happens. You can take this again, a lot of chaotic experiences and emotions, hang them on a narrative arc with a song with resolution. We always try to put hope in there and some people come to us and they're hopeless. But we try to find that light and make sure that song is a way for them to move forward in their life and to feel like this is my story. These are my words, and I can play this for myself. This one woman, the MST survivor said, "Now, I don't have to think about it. I can just listen to my song." And they can also play it for their friends and their families and say tell the wider world and the veteran that this is my story. This is how I feel. This is what I did. This is what I want the world to know about me in three minutes in a very relatable package which is not easy for people to do for the most part. >> Rob Jackson: Right. In our organization, Bob, we call, we create CD projects, and we call them transitional objects. And it's exactly what you're talking about is we want them to be able to listen to the CD or the song or the verse that they wrote ten years from now and be automatically taken back to that feeling and that expression of healing and that feeling that they had of happiness and joy in that process. No matter what they're going through in their life. >> Bob Regan: It's always very remarkable that many, many, many times I've been told and the other songwriters, you know, they'll say something. They'll be talking and they'll come back and say, "I've never told anyone that before." This last week in Fort Benning, this gentleman wrote, Vietnam veteran wrote and was writing a song. I said, "How did it go?" at the end of the session. He said, "I told him things I haven't even told my wife, and we've been married 37 years." >> Rob Jackson: Wow. Wow. >> Bob Regan: So, again, just something about that process and the trust that gets generated very quickly by virtue of the caliber of the songwriters and the experience. It's a little bit disarming, and by, when you get into a disarming situation, you're a little bit left footed, and you tend to, you know, reveal things that you might not reveal in another situation. When we started doing this, I thought, well, we're going to help, you know, veterans like Doc who are just back from Afghanistan or Iraq. But in our program through the VA, Vietnam veterans started coming, Korean veterans, and you would get these amazingly powerful groups with Vietnam veterans sitting with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans sharing their stories. And you know, the phrase "same story different war" would come up repeatedly. And they could prop each other up and, you know, kind of use each other's songs to help relate to each other. And we've also worked with a lot of World War II veterans now, believe it or not. There's, we're losing them at a rapid rate, and there's no expiration date on PTS when you get these, you know, some of these. We just wrote a song with a gentleman who was 102 years old. And he said, you know, my songwriter said, you know, "How did you live so long?" and the guy said, "I guess the devil doesn't want me." He said he had two chances in Normandy and you know, one at Vietnam. So, he said, "We're writing that. The devil didn't want me." And this old guy, and sometimes, the World War II veterans, you might talk a little bit, but it's kind of coded, and you sort of have this one little narrative. But if you break through that, there's still real emotions. Seventy-five years old and he heard the song and broke down crying which is incredibly gratifying. >> Rob Jackson: Yeah, the devil didn't want me is a powerful title for a song. And another powerful song that you shared with us prior to this panel was called "Somedays," and what I noticed in that song, there were scenes of alcohol abuse, drug abuse, loss of family and friends, night terrors, loss of mental control, loss of innocence, isolation, depression, self-harm. All those things were discussed in that song. So, could you maybe just walk us through briefly what's the process like for vets that walk through your door for the first time to getting to the point where they can create such powerful compositions? >> Bob Regan: In the case of that song, "Somedays," that was written with a veteran Ryan Taylor who had actually written that pretty much the rap part of it on his own. So, we didn't take any credit for that song. We just kind of threw the "Somedays" and put a beat to it and gave it the top line melody. But for most, the process for most of the veterans that come to the program, they just come through the door. They've heard, I mean, they have a willingness to open up or they wouldn't be there. But we just, our programs will start off, and this has to happen in a very compressed timeframe. Probably 80% of what we do are in our one-day retreats. And so, we'll start off with a couple of the songwriters will play a few songs they have written, maybe a hit song that somebody might have played. And they'll go, "Okay. Wow. I get to sit down with the guy that wrote a hit for Tim McGraw or Keith Urban or whomever." And then, they just go in a room and just have a conversation. And my, for our songwriters, I have a little sheet of paper, a training such as it is. I said the three rules for writing with veterans are listen, listen, and listen. And when you're done with that, listen harder. So, the process is get them talking, and you are sort of a would-be therapist for the first hour, two hours, even three hours. But then, when it comes time to turn your hat on backwards and become a songwriter, then you need to sort of have your, you know, be able to work quickly and, you know, get something done. So, these songs. Sorry, I'm going to, I'm not a major league baseball catcher. I'm going to turn my hat around. These songs, I mean, usually maybe four to five hours, and it's truly remarkable the quality of songs. Everything you hear on our website or on our band camp page or our YouTube, they were all written in just a matter of hours. And so. >> Rob Jackson: Wow. >> Bob Regan: Again, that's the process. Just get a conversation going, and once the songwriters are onto the, you know, where the verses go, what the chorus is, where the song's going, put some hope in it, wrap it up. What do they want to say? And it's very interactive. With every line I do, I say, "Does this sound right? Does this feel right? Is this how you would say it?" And if they go, "Not really," I go, "Okay, let's keep fishing." So, the more interactive the better, and at the end of the day, people kind of start off at the beginning of the event kind of sitting back like this, kind of wincing. By the end of the day, everybody's arms open, hugging, high fives. And it's truly a remarkable, cathartic process. >> Rob Jackson: All three of you have such an incredible and impertinent and important space that you can tell it works because it's organic. It's not contrived. You're not forcing it. You're just creating a safe space for veterans to be able to share their stories. Which I, if I had a hat, I'd take it off to all of you. Bob, but because you turned your hat around, you went into artist mode real quick, is there a particular lyric, let of lyrics, a composition that maybe you could just kind of share with us or? >> Bob Regan: Yes, and I've thought about this a little bit. There's so many. Really about the first six years of this, I wrote almost all the songs, but then I just go overwhelmed with running the nonprofit. So, we kind of turned more into an admin guy. I've got other songwriters writing. But this one really kind of struck me fairly early on. The VA asked me to sit down with a flight medic, Ian, who had just come back from the Korangal Valley in Afghanistan which was a very, you know, rough time in just repeated medivac missions day after day after day after day. And he came back with, you know, serious PTS and his adrenal system set on 110. He was just fluttering, wired. And so, I just started asking him question. Where are you from? And he was just motor mouth talking. Just spilling out stuff about, you know, all these different, the medivac missions, what would happen. And I was a couple hours in. I was just, my head was reeling. I've got like seven pages of notes. Going, I have no idea what this song's going to be about. And he was talking about the chaos when you get the medivac call. And he said, "You have to have your headphones on, and there's a very specific cadence of calls through your headphones to try to get [inaudible]." You know, so anyway, I said, "Well, explain to me what you hear in your headphones." And immediately he goes, "Medivac, medivac, medivac first up and chase go red con one. Clear up left. Clear up right. Get in the air." So, I went, "Wait. Stop." So, I went. [ Music ] And. >> Rob Jackson: Wow. >> Bob Regan: And these guys are poets. These men and women. And then, you know, I said, "Okay," but anyway. He was just so shocked that I took that cadence and what he was hearing in the headphones. And then, I said, "Then what happens?" And he said, "Their pain gets lost on the rotor wash." He said, "You just, these ungodly screams of these people that are dying." So, that was his line. You know, I said. [ Music ] He said, "But you can't think about it." [ Music ] And I said, "Well, what do you want the song to be called?" He said, "I want it to be called 'Dust Off.' That's the call sign for medivacs ever since Vietnam. So, anyway, it's just very collaborative, and it was his words. And at the end of it, he was, he just kind of slumped in his chair because all that, it was just jumbled, and he, and we're not going to cure PTS. I wish I could say we were. We're going give them one more tool in the toolbox, one little three-minute song to encapsulate that experience and say, "This is what it was like when medivac call came in, and this is how honored I was to serve as a dust off flight medic." >> Rob Jackson: Wow. >> Bob Regan: I keep in touch with all these guys. Not being a therapist. Again, like Doc said, the first thing I do is give them my phone number. So, I got my phone just always blowing up, and I'm honored. >> Rob Jackson: I mean, the work you're doing is really, really incredibly important, and you know, the service that you're providing is, it's obviously people rely on that. So, I personally want to thank you, and I look forward to going onto the website and hearing more songs. And thank you for sharing that with us, Bob. And Patrick, it looks like you are, you're ready to give us a little taste as well before we jump into group discussion? >> Patrick Nettesheim: Ready to rock. >> Rob Jackson: Let's do it. What you got for us. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Got an instrumental piece here that this was instrumental in some of the things we do because I wrote it while was laying down with my eyes shut. And that's when I realized we could teach folks that were, that had some paralysis and were also blind. Now, I already knew how play guitar, so it made it easier for me. But possible. So, here we go. It's called "In the Moment." [ Music ] >> Rob Jackson: Yes. So, I don't know about y'all, but I feel like Doc Todd and Bob and Patrick, y'all need to do a collaboration after this. Y'all need to like hook up and make some music together because all three of you are incredibly talented. Thank you for sharing. >> Patrick Nettesheim: You're welcome. >> Rob Jackson: Actually, into our open portion of this panel discussion, and so the way that's going to work is I'm going to ask a series of questions and just kind of open it up to all three of you, whoever wants to jump on these questions. But the first question we have is actually for all three of you. So, we're just going to go in the same order, and I will ask the question of all three of you, and then we'll open it up for more of an open discussion afterwards. So, the question for all three of you, the Veterans History Project, our host for this discussion, is primarily a storytelling organization capturing the experiences of U.S. veterans throughout history. Whether in song or through oral history, why do you think it's important for veterans to tell their stories, and we'll go back to you for this first one, Doc Todd. >> George "Doc" Todd: I think I matters, first and, you know, one of my old mentors used to say to me all the time, "Our work matters." And you know, it just matters, the perspective of it, you know, what we've done, what we've gone through, it's not just. I feel like it gets put in a box, like just military stories, military ideas, veteran ideas. I feel like it's subjugated to like, you know, political affiliations and news and all these different things when it's just like very much a human story about, you know, sacrifice, commitment, or willingness to, you know, willingness to put your life on the line for other people slash, you know, a lot of different things. I just think the story is extremely relatable. That's why you see all the movies. It's why you see all the military movies. It's why you see all the books. It's why you see all the stories. It's because it's a meaningful and important thing. And you know, I look at, you know, Patrick and Bob as people are trying to heal veterans, you know, and tell great stories. One of the things that matters to me that may be a little different than them is I don't think that we have appropriate representation in the entertainment space. I don't think we have appropriate representation in, you know, about our, you know, who are the, you know, to 50 to 70 to 100 artists and songwriters that are out there right now. You know, where is a military voice? Where is a veteran voice? It doesn't have to just talk about military centric music. We have life experiences, too, and that in and of itself is a life experience. So, I'm an advocate for, you know, veterans getting work in the music industry, whether that be production work, whether that be writing work, whether that be if they're someone [inaudible] you know, the front facing artist. You know, I just think there's poor representation of the stories and of the talent that exists in the space. I spend a lot of time working with organizations that just help, you know, help veterans tell their story. And we have one that's nowhere near as revered or, you know, just with the pedigree of what Bob's doing, but we have one called Alchemy Sky Foundation here, running into a lot of veterans that can't play guitar and can't play keyboard and things like that. And you know, it's kind of an easy way for them to express themselves immediately is because it's vocal and it doesn't require melody or singing ability. It's vocal in a sense of, like, you know, you don't use the same parts of your voice for rap. You know, it's why people from different countries have an accent when they rap. You know, so it's just different. And you know, the idea is not to get this great song out of this. Like, that's not the point. Like, the point is like the way the look on their fac when they, like, hear themselves on a record for the first time or whatever. But I feel like I'm getting off topic. But like one, like, the story is important, and two, I think the perspective is important. Not just the story but the perspective that you bring to other aspects of your life. And I feel like, yes, the military and veteran community is hyper underrepresented in the entertainment space. Whether that be movies or music. And those are two things that I'm extremely passionate about is film and music. So, I hope that makes some kind of sense, but that's what I got for you. >> Rob Jackson: No. That makes great sense, and I think it's a really powerful point, and I look forward to figuring out how we can get more representation because I agree. The stories, not just on the battlefield, but I mean, to put your, emerge yourself, immerse yourself in a situation where you are constantly in danger and constantly in threat. And the human capability that that takes to be able to endure that. That in itself is a powerful story. Let alone all the experiences on the battlefield or the experiences with PTS. So, I 100% agree, and I look forward to doing what I can to support that effort. >> George "Doc" Todd: And how does that impact a person's outlook on love? Right. How does that impact, you know, there's a lot of love songs out there? How odes that kind of, you know, life experience impact the way that, you know, veteran or military songwriter may look at love or may look at self-discovery or may look at political and social issues. These are what great records are about. Great records are about love. They're about, you know, social issues. They're about self-discovery. They're about healing. You know, that's a perspective in those big global mainstream spaces of what it's like to be a human being or be a person where that perspective is going to be extremely valuable. You know what I mean? And you know, overcoming adversity in love is, you know, is I mean, if anyone's married in the panel. You know, you got to overcome some adversity, you know, to have some good things happen, right. So, I just think bringing those things into the, into L.A., Nashville, New York, I think those would be good things. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you, Doc Todd. And Patrick, same question. Whether in song or through oral history, why do you think it's important for veterans to tell their stories in the same way the Veterans History Project does? >> Patrick Nettesheim: Well, I have a couple points in that answer. First of all, Doc Todd, thank you for that. You are absolutely right. In the music industry, though it is so cathartic to share the stories of combat experience and war fighting experience in song, that's part of the human experience. And people who are veterans were civilians prior to being veterans, and then they come back to civilian life. And there's a whole spectrum of things that are not that much different. If any at all, then the rest of us. So, I think it's important that that's who get past that initial stage, like Mr. Regan is working with here. Being able, you know, those songs being able to express that pain and then move beyond that is to be able to be seen for writing songs like any other musician would be that they're not just pigeonholed into writing about pain or agony. They can write about pain and agony, but that might have to do with their relationship that just happens to be with the opposite sex for, you know, it's just like any other tune and right about joy and happiness and, you know, the truck they love or whatever that is. It's just so much more to this, and that's where that, you know, that joy aspect comes into it. So, as far as sharing stories, you know what, I'd like to share a story that a vet shared with me. And I'll try to be brief with it. But you can see the power of this. When we were doing our pilot study research program in Milwaukee, Wisconsin back in 2011 and '12. I was the principal instructor, and a gentleman came in to see me. And for his first lesson, he was extremely angry. He had served in the infantry in the army in Iraq, and it didn't really seem like wanted to be there. He was very vocal about calling Middle Eastern people sand rats and towel heads and other things that I won't mention. In this interview, there was an old Vietnam, well he, the Vietnam vet called himself a river rat because that's, but they embrace that term. Was in there that had seen four tours in Vietnam, and he told this younger man that I get it, objectifying your adversary, your enemy, because sometimes you got to realize they are people, and you do have to reconcile that in your mind, body, and soul. And so, he said something. That didn't bring him down, but it was a good point made by another vet. So, he sat down. I handed him the guitar, a little more grumbling. Held the guitar. I showed him how to do that, and with a bunch of resistance, it got him to that E minor chord. I got him to play. [ Guitar Chord ] Strummed it, and we use this chord, too, because it's pretty easy to get to right away. [ Guitar Chord ] Did it again, and he paused, and he looked up at me, and he said, "I'm going to tell you what I think about this program right now. And so, I thought, "Okay. This guy's going to totally dress me down again, but that's okay if he needs to do that." He strummed it, and he started to shake, and then tears started to stream down his face. [ Guitar Chord ] And he said, "This is the first time I've felt peace in four years since I've been out of the service." And he just kept strumming that chord and weeping. And then we both smiled. So, that was a transformation that was very profound because then you started singing. Then, he started writing his own songs, and he found that voice that he could not find. It took that energy that was anger, and you can understand where that anger came from. This guy was a walking, I believe they call it like a walking paraplegic or something like that where he could still walk, but his time walking was limited. It was going to be reduced, and he would be in a chair, and that's the rest of his life. And this was at the hands of the Iraqis that this happened to him. However, I think with that seed that the Vietnam vet planted and this chord, you can transfer that anger into passion and that passion into music and that music into joy. Because it is joyful to release all of that, that huge weight, that big rocks that we're carrying around. Take that big rocks and play rock, you know. I mean, let's let that go, and then it touches other people. And then, other people start smiling. And then, as one vet said to me, "I used to think the only thing I could do was destroy because that's what I was trained to do. And now, with this guitar, I'm creating something. I'm creating something beautiful." And I'm very confident out other panelists have heard stories like that, and that is the inspiration that I take from all of this to keep doing what it is I am doing because that was healing for me as well. So, it's pretty profound, man. >> Rob Jackson: That was needed. Thank you, Patrick, for that story. I think what really stood out to me about that I shad you turned your back on that veteran because they were, you know, using offensive language or that that anger was resonating in a way that didn't feel healthy, they would have never got to that breakthrough and they would have never had that opportunity to get that message from the Vietnam vet, and I think all of you have highlighted the importance of when you create that safe space, you're going to welcome in all kinds of personalities and feelings and anger, but where else are they going to release that if it's not in this safe space that you've created. And so, I just want to highlight how important that is. So, thank you again for that, Patrick, and Bob, same question. Whether in song or through oral history, why do you think it's important for veterans to tell their stories similar to the way the Veterans History Project has? >> Bob Regan: Well, the one thing, again, this was not intentional when I started doing this. This was just sort of let's try it and see if it works. But after doing this for a while, I realized that speaking to these veterans and relaying my experience to all my civilian friends, I [inaudible] serve. I realized that [inaudible] between the military and the civilian communities. Once the draft was eliminated, it was all volunteer and you had an inverted pyramid where 1% of the population was bearing the weight of 100% of the military service around the world. And people do not, civilians do not really understand who serves, why they serve, what their service and sacrifice entails. So, it's really important for the civilian community to understand [inaudible] all those things I said who's serving, why, what they did, what the sacrifices on the part of the men and their families, and the Veterans History Project is a great way to do that. But music is a great way to do that because they can hear the songs, and again, it's relatable. You don't have to listen to a war story to listen to their song. And the other thing, and I've been working with Veterans History Project for a couple of years now, just tangentially, but it occurred to us that at the beginning of this year, we were kind of going through kind of a strategic plan, and you know, one of our goals, and we sort of talked about we were sort of, we've accidentally created a musical military history for sure in Tennessee, and we have stories of Tennessee World War veterans, Tennessee Korean War veterans, dozens if not hundreds of Vietnam stories, Iraq, Afghanistan stories with families. So, we are going to, we're very short on resources like everybody else. [inaudible] do a keyword search like the Library of Congress. Where if a Vietnam veteran wants to go to our catalog and say, you know, I landed in Long Bend. So, he can type that into the Operation Song database and boom, there's a song that talks about that. Or here's someone who served in Kaesong or Da Nang or the Tet Offensive in World War II. We just wrote a song about a month ago where somebody visit Iwo Jima. So, that aspirationally, we want to kind of help create a historical database again so these stories are not lost and so that the wider world can understand what military service entails. And hopefully inspire more people to get, to join the military and for the people who did serve and the families to get a greater sense of pride and empowerment for having done so. So, I took a few notes for that question. I think I, yes, I think I covered it. >> Rob Jackson: You nailed it, Bob. You got it. >> George "Doc" Todd: I tell you, when Bob talks, I take notes. [laughs] [inaudible] like man, this is good for me to listen to Bob and Patrick. I'm like this is going to help my life, man. You know, like, I'm your target audience, you know. So, you guys are helping my life today. >> Rob Jackson: Well, you know, that's actually a good segue, Doc Todd, into my next question is to help us civilians understand more around what veterans go through with PTS. What are maybe some messages that you would want regular civilians like me to understand about veterans who are dealing with PTS? >> Yeah. So, I'm going to take the music hat completely off and just speak as a veteran. So, one who is, who does have Post Traumatic Stress, and it's well adjusted and well treated and all that. It's not all the same, right. So, like the symptomology is not all the same. People aren't going to present to you with Post Traumatic Stress with all the same symptoms. You know, there are specific symptoms that exist that are somewhat universal, but the way that they're displayed or the way that they're dealt with is going to be different. One of them is isolation. So, that's why, you know, what Patrick and Bob is so meaningful what they're doing is they're creating groups. They're unisolating people, if that's a word. You know and bringing them into group and bring them into community because one of the number one things that someone struggling with severe PTSD or PTS, excuse me, is going to do is they're going to isolate. They're going to self-isolate. So, that breaks that wall down. Another thing is that I'll speak from personal experience and a little bit of knowledge as well is a hypervigilance. So, this sense of feeling like you have to be in control of or protect your environment. So, when you step into areas where you're not able to either assert control or know or predict what is going to happen or what's going on, it can cause anxiety and stress because we're very hypervigilant. You know, I just now got to the point where I can, you know, really, really truly kind of not freak out if the door's open. You know, or some, that little stuff like that, just you know, stuff that you wouldn't think of. So, but just know that no two veterans are going to present exactly the same way, and it doesn't always mean that you wake up in cold sweats in the middle of the night or you hear some sound, and you just lose your mind or whatever. It can be a lot of different things. And a lot of the symptoms can be more subtle and less, you know, obvious than like the way it's portrayed in film, especially. And in a way that, you know, it's usually hyperbolic accounts. So, you know, the symptoms. So, like, you know, it's a lot easier to notice something like what Patrick was talking about just a guy being real jittery and kind of bouncing around and saying outlandish stuff. Like, he doesn't really have any type of control over this thought patterns or the filter doesn't exist between his brain and his mouth. And like little things like this, like, you know, it can be, you know, harder to readily identify, but everyone is different, and it's difficult, it has varying degrees of difficulty for everyone who deals with it. And it is, the number one thing I want them to know about is it's manageable. It's treatable. It can't, you can get to a better place with it. Me, it's been a combination of, you know, not drinking and several, you know, the music, and a lot of different things. I've kind of found a recipe that works for me, but I just would want everyone to know that it is treatable, and you can get it to a place where you can be a high functioning adult and functionality is really what we're looking for. We want these people to be productive. We want them to function at a high level. We want them to continue to give gifts to our nation, our society, and humanity, etc. So, you know, I'll wrap it there. But, yeah, it's different for everyone, and it is treatable. >> Rob Jackson: That was well said and super helpful and insightful for me. Thank you, Doc Todd. This next question, I'm going to open up to either Patrick or Bob, whichever one of you wants to take it. And the question is what if any difference are you noticing with how Post Traumatic Stress is affecting black and indigenous people of color versus white veterans, and the second part of that question is are you noticing a difference in services slash help that these particular groups are receiving? >> Patrick Nettesheim: I believe the question was do I see, have I observed differences between ethnicities, how they've reacted to the Guitars for Vets program. Is that the question? >> Rob Jackson: Yes, Patrick. That is exactly what I'm trying to get at. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Okay. I'll give you the long and short answer together. No. There is no difference between somebody presenting with PTSD, they might, as Doc Todd said, they might have different symptomology and different ways. Somebody might be really keeping to themselves. Somebody might be very loud, saying obnoxious things, but that's not tied into ethnicity. That's tied into the disorder or PTS. I don't know why the D was dropped off of PTS. Somebody maybe could enlighten me with that. But let's just say that the stress of Post Trauma, but no difference. No difference. That's where the humanity is raw and all the same. It's all the same. Now, there was a second part to your question, though, sir, and I. >> Rob Jackson: Yeah, it was just so, the first part was honing in on your actual experience through what you're doing. The second part was just in general, are you noting a difference in services and help for those particular groups? Like for the VA, for example. The, are you noticing, like, there's a difference in services for between ethnicities? >> Patrick Nettesheim: From my standpoint, the VAs that I have worked with have seen very good with even distribution. And I know they've worked towards getting better and better. I think the one area where, in my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Sell it for twice as much if you think you can. But in my opinion, in all seriousness, women need to be served more in the VA. And I think one of the problems with that is just the nature of the trauma that women suffer from. If they're victims of rape or, you know, MST, but we truly try to keep it real and call it what it is. It's tough to be around a group of men. It's just tough. Until they are better managed in their symptoms and the triggers. And they have to regain trust. Because some of these MST cases, they're not just one incident. It has been piled upon. The one incidence is just as bad, but we would like to see as an organization more women involved with what we're doing. I would say I think we're somewhere around 15% of women being involved as far as black, white, Latino. You know, indigenous, we've had a few indigenous folks in our program. But that seems to be very evenly distributed. But it's been hard for women to come to the VA, come to group lessons that are essentially all men. And so, what we're striving to do is start women's groups so they can feel comfortable with women instructors. We have, definitely have women instructors, and then we can get a little more coed as we move forward with that. There's a solution to this, and I think we all put our heads together and perseverance, spreading the message that message of being inclusive amongst sexes is really important. And but starting off, I think, with more women focused groups in our mission, I think that will up those percentage numbers quite a bit. >> Rob Jackson: That's an important point. Thank you so much, Patrick. Bob, did you want to follow up with that, or? >> Bob Regan: We have a pretty wide demographic spectrum. A lot of females, a lot of indigenous Americans, African Americans. The military is a real melting pot. I don't know what the actual percentages are. You know, the demographics of the military. But I'd say Operation Song actually tracks that pretty closely, but we do have a lot of programs for women. They come to our regular programs. They also, we have the last eight years. We've done a military sexual trauma specific retreat, and that's very impactful. And that's not just a problem for females, sadly, but for the purposes of our program, it's all female. And we've written a song called the American Indian Veteran, which is used to help promote the, in Riverside, California, they set aside a little acre or so of the Arlington West at the Riverside Military Cemetery for American Indian Veterans because the operation specific rituals. You can't just back up the hearse in VA mortuary. So, anyway, they used our song as the theme song to help fundraise funds for that. So, I'm rambling a little bit, but a lot of our, we've got programs at the Vet Center, for those of you who know what the Vet Center is. That's it's under the VA umbrella, but they don't really share information with the VA. There's a little stigma sometimes, especially with Vietnam veterans belong to the Va. Vet Center is strictly combat related therapy, and there's, I'd say, probably 50% African American and those programs. So, even though we're Nashville. People think Nashville country music, we've been able to reach a lot of people. Doc, I need to talk to you off to the side about helping us with some hip hop writers because people come to us and say, you know, we want to do hip hop. We can kind of fake it, but we, you know, we need more people that can, that and metal. Somebody says we love. I say, "What kind of music do you like?" If they go, "Keith Urban or Brad Paisley or Carrie Underwood," we've got it covered, but if they say "Pantera, Five Finger Death Punch, Cemetery Gates," then we kind of go "Uh-oh." We're going to have to outsource this one. So, anyway, yeah, that's an ongoing conversation that span our other genres. >> George "Doc" Todd: So, I have something to add to that question. >> Rob Jackson: Please, Doc Todd, please. >> George "Doc" Todd: Yeah, yeah. So, I want to get into it. So, I don't have any, it's important to state that I have no evidence of any kind or like statistics. All I have is my observations, right. All I have is what I've seen with my own eyes. If there's a big disparity in what we're talking about access to programs, access to opportunities as they're expressed and access to treatment, etc. That's what we're talking about. The same as Patrick and Bob in the sense of I've seen some, you know, very reasonable, you know, distribution of attendance among treatments and that nature in my personal life I have. Where I have seen, if any, a lack of access or opportunity for people of color, it has been in the recreational area. Whether that be tickets for, like, events, whether that be the recognition, like, on the football field, or whether that be, like, go on this cool, like, outing or go on this fishing trip or go on this, you know, adventure or whatever. Those, I've been around a lot of those, and those are the places that I've seen a very, very homogenous or, you know, kind of lack of diversity in those events or seen, you know, that there could be some work done on, you know, providing some equal access to opportunity for some of the fun stuff. I have noticed that. As far as, like, the hardcore treatments and the programs that are really, like, you know, in that space, I haven't noticed as much. But the recreation, in my personal life, I've noticed some lack of access to opportunity for, you know, people of color. And then, the other piece that you said, I think there is some differences in the type of programs that people participate in based on the things that they like. So, I think that, you know, some of those things you'll see some disparity there as well. But as far as the VA in Atlanta, extremely diverse place. The different places I've gone to get, you know, different treatments and things like that, those have been, you know, seem like very fair and equitable places. But some of the fun stuff, I've noticed some, you know, a lack of diversity. >> Rob Jackson: Thank you. Thank you for raising that issue, Doc Todd, and you know, the great thing about his panel is it's going to be seen by a number of people that hopefully will be at, this will be able to resonate with them. And the messages that you all have been, that the jewels that we like to call them is that you all have been dropping today, I'm sure are not only going to resonate with people. But I'm hoping that we can bring people to the cause and get more and more support. Not only for your organizations but for veterans at large. We're running a little short on time, so I'm going to ask all of you one more question, and then, and hopefully, you can keep your responses somewhat brief because it's hard because this is a doozy of a question. If somebody was to start to write an autobiography about your work and you as a leader, what is it, what's the message that you would want readers to gain from that autobiography, and in particular about your leadership style and about the work that you're doing? I mean, we'll just stay with you, Doc Todd. >> George "Doc" Todd: Yeah, so same mentor as I mentioned before, but I'm all about, at least I hope this is coming from an extremely real and authentic place, but I'm super focused on servant leadership. Like I want to serve people. I want to serve humanity. I want to not only serve veterans but serve, you know, just the world as a whole. You know what I mean? And if there's one thing I want to be remembered for is that, you know, Doc Todd was of service to other people. That's it. It's that simple. You know, and we talk about our, you know, successful self, like what we want the world to see on our career and our [inaudible] and then we have our eulogy self, like what people, we want people to say about us at our funeral. And for me, there is no separate success and eulogy self. I just want to, I want them to say that Doc was a servant leader and he cared about impacting other people. That's it. Like that is, that's, you know, and when I get offline with that, I struggle with that. Sometimes, it does become about me and my career and the opportunities that I'm getting or lack thereof or this or that. Sometimes it does, we all get lost a little bit along the way and forget the actual mission at hand. And I do. I'm no different. I fall into the pity parties, and I fall into like why am I not doing this or not doing that. These things happen, and you know, we mentioned, Bob mentioned the Grammys earlier. I just want to get on the moratorium. So, like, when I die, I want them to know that I lived. You know what I'm saying? Like they have a moratorium on the Grammys where they say, like, this person died in music this year. And it's like everyone who passed away that had a huge impact on music. Look, if I never go the awards show, if I never get one, damn it, I better be on the memorial. Man, like this guy represented military issues in music. He tried to serve other people. Like, we know who he is. Like, you know, and then just that I fought for others, right. Like, that's all I want [inaudible] for. >> Rob Jackson: Right on Doc Todd, and just know, like, this I panel is partially to give you your flowers while you're here. So, not just in eulogy, but like we're here to celebrate you today as well and the powerful leader you are. So, thank you. Thank you [inaudible]. Patrick. Same thing. Somebody writes your autobiography, what is it you want the reader to know about you as a leader and your work? >> Patrick Nettesheim: Thank you. You know, I was thinking about the title right away, because the book cover's going to mean everything. >> Rob Jackson: Absolute. >> Patrick Nettesheim: I don't have the imagery, but I got the title. "Windows of Serenity" because that's what we're opening up here. We, the playing of guitar is what I like to call a wise distraction. There's many unwise ones out there we can go to, but what it does when someone close to you dies or is very ill, there's, or if you're taken by tragedy in some form whatsoever. It can hang with you, and you can, I talked about the center of your being before your heart. You've got your mind, and you get into a trance almost because that feeling tone doesn't subside. You got to bed with it. You wake up with it. When you start playing and getting into a song, it leaves because you're engaging your hands and your mind and your body and your feeling. And you're getting, if you're playing for people feedback from them. If it isn't verbal, it's emotional. Smiles and so many things are going on in this creation process, you open that window of serenity. So, I would say as far as what I'd like people to say about me is that I have inspired folks to act upon their innate goodness in order to optimize their human being and better serve the greater good. >> Rob Jackson: Man, that needs to be a t-shirt. Somebody needs to put that on a t-shirt. That's awesome. Thank you, Patrick. I love it, "Windows of Serenity." I look forward to reading that book. Bob, same question. Somebody writes your autobiography. They begin to work on it tomorrow. What is it that you want to shine through about your work and about you as a leader? >> Bob Regan: Well, I mean, I have a few mottos, one of which is it's amazing what you can accomplish if you're not worried about who gets the credit. So, I'm always trying to offload credit to the other people, to the veterans telling their story, to the songwriters who help bring these songs to life. I would just like to feel like I maybe moved the needle a little bit, and I was lucky to have a, knocking on wood here, I was lucky to have written some good songs, but really, I would, the last chapter of my life as a songwriter was just using whatever gift I had. And I hesitate to call it that, to use my skillset as a songwriter to put it to a higher use. And let's face it, if you're a commercial songwriter, there's only so many ways you can write something in cup, you know, sun coming up, tan legged Georgia girl, blah, blah, blah. But in this iteration, it gives you a chance and the other songwriters that have taken part in this, a chance to use their skillset for something that really flat out matters to one person. We may never write a hit song in this program, but for everybody that we've written with, that song has really impacted them. So, you know, my autobiography, I'd like to think I created something that will outlive me, and I'm a lot closer to my eulogy being read than anybody else on this panel. So, we'll see. you'll probably be able to see if that happens. So, yes. Just I was able to use what skillset I had for, you know, a better purpose. And I really do like what Patrick said about giving people a channel to use their innate goodwill and impulse to help others. Because a lot of these songwriters, they would not have thought to do this themselves, but if I call them up and say, "Hey, can you write with this Korean War veteran? Can you write with the Gold Star Kid?" They go, "Absolutely. Yeah." So, it's allowed a bunch of people to challenge their, to channel their altruistic impulses to a greater good and a wonderful outcome. >> Rob Jackson: Awesome. And Bob, I'm going to stay with you, the final question of our panel. What is a way that people can get in touch with you and support your work through Operation Song? >> Bob Regan: Well, I'm not going to give up my cell number, despite what I said earlier. Just go check us out at operationsong.org. We're on Facebook. We're on most media. You can message us anywhere in the messages will get to someone who will get back to you. And we have one thing I did not mention we do, this is kind of a force multiplier. We have a YouTube channel, and we encourage the veterans, so they have photographs. Say, "Send us your photographs. We'll make a slide show video or even video footage." So, we have some amazing stories that have, you know, increased the impact of the song lyric, some footage of them serving. So, our YouTube channel is a great place if you just want to browse around. I think you'll be pretty impressed. >> Rob Jackson: Fantastic. >> Bob Regan: Operationsong.org. >> Rob Jackson: I'm on it. I'm going right after this. >> Bob Regan: Okay. >> Rob Jackson: Same thing, Patrick. what are ways that people can get in touch with you and support your work with Guitars for Vets? >> Patrick Nettesheim: So, they can email at info@guitars, with an s, for F-O-R, vets, V-E-T-S dot org. Or they can call (855) G4V-HERO, (855) G4V-HERO. Operators are standing by and given that the VA recently put us in their newsletter, and we are now pushing 3000 new requests for lessons, boy. I mean, I absolutely respect Bob with not wanting his phone overtaken. However, going out on a limb, sir. Here it is (414) 339-3648. (414) 339-3648. That is my direct cell phone line, and I do expect my phone to blow up. But time for me to get an upgrade anyway. Would love to hear from you. There's so much that we can do not only for our brothers and sisters in this country. When I say brothers and sisters, that's all. We're only removed by distance and time throughout the world as well. So, thank you, sir. >> Rob Jackson: Well said, Patrick. Thank you. Doc Todd, give us your math. Give us your info. How we get in touch with you and support all these amazing bars that you're spitting out here? >> George "Doc" Todd: Yeah, yeah. So, I have, I would say a catalog of around 80 to 100 songs that are available now. I'm streaming on all major platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, [inaudible]. So, wherever you listen to your music, you can find me by just searching Doc Todd. Secondly, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook are @therealdoctodd. So, that's T-H-E-R-E-A-L-D-O-C-T-O-D-D. So, @therealdoctodd as well as YouTube. So, I mean, if you have a computer, you can find me. You can find my music. Just type Doc Todd into it, and you'll get some results. My phone number is (404) 281-6649. That's (404) 281-6649. It is open for business, however only legitimate business. You know, or legitimate emergencies because my phone is also overrun. But it is available. That's what we do. We're here to serve, so there it is. But the internet would be the short answer. >> Bob Regan: Alright. You guys have shamed me. (615) 400. [ Laughter ] >> Rob Jackson: four zero zero what? >> Bob Regan: Lead me at 400-0764. That's (615) area code. Leave me a message. I probably won't pick up but leave a message. >> George "Doc" Todd: I just wanted a Grammy songwriter's phone number so I can. >> Rob Jackson: Alright. So, that is our time. I definitely want to thank our panelists Doc Todd, Patrick, and Bob for all of your insightful information. And certainly, I know I'm inspired to get more involved with supporting veterans, and particular with this issue of PTS. We definitely want to thank the Congress, the Library of Congress Veterans History Project and you know, this, I, my name again is Rob Jackson. It's been an honor to moderate this panel, and we look forward to the next one. Thank you. >> George "Doc" Todd: Well, let us thank you, Andrew and Rob, for putting this thing together. Means a lot. Thank you for having us. Thank you for giving us the platform to share and for all, I'm sure, the incredibly hard work that y'all put into it as well. So, I just want to say thank you from us to you as well. >> Bob Regan: Ditto to that. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Okay. I'm going to end this with a quick song. Here we go. [ Music ] >> Rob Jackson: Hey. There it is. >> Patrick Nettesheim: Yeah. [ Laughter ] [ Music ]