>> Stephen Winick: Welcome.
I'm Stephen Winick of the
American Folklife Center
of The Library of Congress.
For many years we've presented
the Homegrown Concert Series,
featuring the best in folk music
and dance from around the world.
In the year 2020 because of
the global pandemic we shifted
to producing an online
video concert series,
which we call Homegrown At Home.
So 2021 was our second year
of Homegrown At Home Concerts.
We were very happy to present
a program of Shaker Spirituals
and this video is the
second part of an interview
with Brother Arnold Hadd
and Kevin Siegfried,
which goes along
with that concert.
By way of introduction I'll
mention that the United Society
of Believers in Christ's Second
Appearing, more commonly known
as the Shakers, immigrated
from England and settled
in Revolutionary
Colonial America in 1774.
And from their inception the
Shakers composed thousands
of songs, dances,
hymns and anthems,
which were an important
part of Shaker worship.
Sabbathday Lake Shaker
Village in Maine established
at the height of the Shaker
movement in the United States
in the 18th Century is the
last active Shaker community
in the country and one of
that community's members,
Brother Arnold Hadd, actively
carries on the oral tradition
of singing Shaker songs, which
goes back over 200 years.
So we are very happy to
have Brother Arnold with us.
Welcome back for Part Two.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: Thank you.
>> Stephen Winick: Brother
Arnold has been collaborating
with our other guest,
Kevin Siegfried.
Welcome, Kevin.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Thank you.
Good to be here.
>> Stephen Winick:
And I'll just say
that Kevin's choral arrangements
of Shaker songs are
frequently performed
by modern vocal ensembles,
and Kevin also does
archival research and work
in the Sabbathday Lake
Library, as well as with us
at The Library of Congress.
He sees his choral arrangements
as a form of musical stewardship
of this important
American musical tradition.
So our concert offered a glimpse
into the transmission history
and meaning of Shaker song, and
the first part of the interview,
which was conducted
expertly by Kevin,
allowed us to delve far
deeper into the history.
So, without further
talk from me,
let's welcome back Brother
Arnold Hadd and Kevin Siegfried.
>> Kevin Siegfried: So,
Brother, in the first part
of this oral history we
were able to delve into some
of your early history, how
you came to Sabbathday Lake,
and some of the early
history of the Shakers
and early Shaker music.
And I wonder if we can
continue in this second part
to just delve particularly
into the main Shaker repertory
of songs, things that are
unique to both the Alfred
and Sabbathday Lake communities,
and maybe illustrate
some specific details
about the people who have given
life to these songs and help,
helped bring them to this day
and what they mean to you now?
We were able to end Part
One with simple gifts,
so that brought us to the
1840s, and jumping in here
at mid-19th Century could
we pick it up with a song,
Oh Holy Father, by
Alonzo Gilman?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: One
of the most beautiful songs
in the repertoire, a very
small song, and we now use it
as a benediction basically
in meeting on Sundays
to close the meeting
off, and everybody sings
in a kind of a hushed tone.
It's not some loud, but it is
one of the most haunting songs
from one of the most
haunting believers
in 19th Century Maine Shakerism.
It was received by
Joseph Alonzo Gilman,
and he was called Alonzo.
That's something I don't think
most people know about Shakers,
we do not like duplication
of names.
So if you came into a family
and your name was Joseph Alonzo
and there were already three
Joseph's you were not going
to be allowed to be called that.
You would be called
Alonzo, and likewise
if they already had an Alonzo
then they would say to you,
okay, what do you want to
be called, what's your name?
That was the case,
Sister Francis,
she was actually Evangeline
Annie, and we already had an Eva
and we already had an
Annie, so they said to her
when she was 10 years old, okay,
what would you like
to be called?
And just before she became
a Shaker her mother had her
baptized into Catholicism
and the religious name
she was given was Francis,
that's how she became
known as Francis.
So that's the way
things went around.
So Alonzo, anyways, had a
rather interesting life.
He came in as an adult, so he
had some conviction of faith.
They needed help at
the polling hill,
which was our north
[assumed spelling] family,
and they recruited him from
Alfred to come up and help.
And at first he seemed to be
doing well as the second elder
or the junior elder
of the family,
and when the elder was
transferred elsewhere he became
the elder.
And something went
peculiarly wrong with him,
and the family lost
a lot of confidence.
And elder writing to the
Lebanon ministry said,
Elder Alonzo is sick
and bed and most
of the family hope
he never rises again.
So he had really lost the
confidence of the people.
So what he did is he decided
he was going to get even
and what he did is
he started stealing.
Now he didn't steal money
because they didn't
have much money,
but what they did have was
money that could be used
to be buying equipment
and things like that.
So he would buy wheelbarrows,
shovels and all,
and he had a friend and he
had the friend take it away.
So what he was going to do is he
was going to leave the Shakers
and open up a drive-in store
with all of the ill-gotten gains
and make his money that way.
Well, they removed him from
the eldership and took him back
to Alfred and he was obstinate.
He would do nothing, and
the family had it with him.
And the Shakers really don't, I
mean the covenant is very clear
about what we can and can't do,
but Shakers really had
a hard time with that
and so they always wanted the
redemption of the individual.
And so he was labored by
the elders, he was labored
with his brothers, and
finally the family just said,
we've had it, and he was told
that the family had united
in their belief that
he had to go.
So he said, fine, and
he went back to his room
and he finally broke down,
and he goes to the elders.
He confesses his sins, they
get all of the goods back
at which they can liquidize
and give the money
back to Poland Hill.
But he really isn't happy
and he's very depressed,
and one day he just wandered
off and walked into the pond
and committed suicide because
he didn't know how to swim.
So a very, very unhappy man,
who had a very unhappy end,
but he left us something
far greater than most people
who lived exemplary lives.
So this is it, Oh, Holy Father.
[ Singing ]
>> Kevin Siegfried: And
do you normally just sing
that song one time through?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
That song, and Sister Milda,
that's how she learned
it at Alfred.
>> Kevin Siegfried: That's
how she sang it, yes.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: I
think it's just too short,
it destroys the rhythm of it,
unless you just took
the whole thing through
and sang the entire thing twice.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes, right.
That's always been the
tradition with that one.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes.
That's a song I've never,
never arranged for choir,
but maybe it needs to be
moved to the top of the list.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
You should, you should.
That could have such
power, Kevin.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
It could, it could.
I just jotted it down, so.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Good.
>> Kevin Siegfried: So there are
a couple people that are really,
when you look at the history
of the Maine Shaker community
that really stand out.
And Eldress Mary Ann Gillespie
and Elder Otis Sawyer,
who were in the leadership
along with Eldress Hester
and Adams for, it
was a 25-year period?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Yes.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
And the relationship
between these people
is really remarkable.
Eldress Mary Ann and Elder
Otis were both prolific
in their output of songs, and
I mean astonishingly prolific
as I've been coming across
them in the manuscripts,
and had a special
relationship with one another.
Seemed to almost just goad
each other on in terms
of their output and had a great
deal of respect for one another.
And so I'm curious if you could
just talk to us a little bit
about these figures who
really do loom large
over the second half of the
19th Century at Sabbathday Lake
and Alfred, and then we'll
get into some songs of theirs?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
Well, Elder Otis came
to the north family,
which we call Poland Hill,
when he was 13, being
placed there
because he had lost his parents.
And he and James Wakefield
were contemporaries
and they were the two
young men in the family
who they had set
their whole hopes
on as being the next leaders,
being the elders
and the trustees.
When there came a crisis
in the Maine ministry
and they needed somebody
else to go in he, Otis,
was the one chosen to leave,
but he never really left.
That's the thing, again people
don't understand about Shakers,
when you're a Shaker
you're made, that's it,
you make a Shaker in the
community you were brought in.
So if you were to be transferred
anywhere else your home was not
there, your home was
where you started.
Now Elder Otis was a Poland
Hill boy and he was always was,
and Poland Hill actually
lasted much longer
because of his influence
and he would not let
that community die.
Though he was stalwart
right from the beginning,
nobody had any doubt, this
is the man who is going
to be the man, and he
had musical ability
from his teens really.
In 1859 Maine finally
got its full status back
in the Shaker world
and, in fact,
Canterbury had been pleading
with Mount Lebanon to let them
out of it because they
felt they were going
to get stoned any time
they came to Maine.
That's how little they
would listen to them.
So they finally relented,
but they had to buy out.
And so they had to send people
from New Hampshire to help fill
up places here in Maine, and
Mary Ann and Hester came.
Eldress Hester came to be
first and Mary Ann second.
And Eldress Mary Ann was
just a very lively soul.
She was short and round
and just had life.
Children loved her.
Eldress Hester was always
patrician and dyspeptic,
and you never hear a good word
really about her from anybody.
And she hated it here,
she just hated Maine.
There was this horrible letter
she wrote to her former kindred
in New Hampshire after she
got here about the wastelands
of Maine and the
exile she was feeling
from home, you know all of that.
So but Mary Ann and Elder
Otis, they really had a bond,
and she could not write
Shaker, let alone location.
So she would receive
a song, write it down,
and then he would provide
the lettering for her.
So they were really
collaborating, and you think
but the funny thing is, and
I know you know this, Kevin,
but Eldress Mary Ann was lively
and her spirit was so alive
and all of her songs,
her sad songs are lively.
Elder Otis, on the other hand,
couldn't write a happy song
if he wanted to, you know
everything was whoa, is me,
burden, burden, burden.
Well, and he had
every reason to be
because everything was
falling apart underneath him
and he had all of
these distrust.
So one of the trustees had
to be thrown into prison
for embezzling, another one
was released and removed
for embezzling, and then you had
all the future prospects leave
or die on him.
He was in a mess, he
was just in a mess,
and he felt very alone
and very besieged.
And if it weren't for the two
sisters he would have been.
So they used to call
themselves the Trio ministry,
and they got all
of their support,
all of their encouragement
from each other,
not from anybody else.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And in terms
of the life they
lived they were,
you know they were the
active ministry for Alfred,
which is to the south
near the border.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Yes.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And
then at New Gloucester,
you know which is up the road
and to the north, they were back
and forth constantly between
these two communities.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
They were, they were,
I mean normally you would
spend approximately six weeks,
however, if you had problems,
and there were always problems,
then you'd have to pick
up and move and go up
and see what was going on.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes, and
you can see how much they moved
around in the manuscripts
as you go
through because it's just like,
you know Otis will sign his name
and you know today, June 4th
he's in Alfred, you know,
and then the next week you
see, you know sign his name,
a new song, he's
south at Bay Lake.
So it's just the -- it seems
like it was often more
frequent than six weeks.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: Right, it was.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: I mean
the sojourn was supposed to be,
but of course if you have
a crisis you're going
to deal with the crisis.
You can't say, well, you've got
to wait another three
weeks for this, so.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And they
made that trip via carriage?
Train?
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: Ah, mostly train,
by that time period
it was mostly train.
>> Kevin Siegfried: So the --
Arise and Sing, a song
by Eldress Mary Ann?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
Because it survives
in the oral tradition we know it
because otherwise
there are two songs
that we sing in this fashion.
The other one was received
by Eldress Anna White
[assumed spelling]
at north family, Lebanon.
But the first stanza
is just normal,
but the second stanza starts out
really little and then it builds
in notes till you
get to the fullness,
and that doesn't appear
in the manuscript,
you have to know that.
So there are heaven knows how
many songs we don't really know
how we're sining them
right or not, we don't,
we don't have the
interpretation,
but this one we have.
And this really embodies
everything that Mary Ann,
Eldress Mary Ann is
all about, right?
It's arousing, it's
singing, it's going forth,
it's going to be joyful.
The life of the gospel is a
joy, and she wants to instill
that in everything
that she sings.
So here we go.
[ Singing ]
>> Kevin Siegfried: And as we,
as musicians would notate
something like that,
that B section really
begins pianissimo
and by the time you get to it
you have a gradual crescendo,
all right, and the end of it
it's fortissimo, so double forte
by the end just thinks the,
is the implied performance
tradition with that.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
And as far as you know
that really goes back to --
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Yay,
and that's the only way,
I mean it's never gone
out of our tradition.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And the
-- and you're exactly right,
it does not appear
in the manuscripts
and with that indication.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried: The -- so
to contrast that with a song
by Otis Sawyer, which as you
say often have a different,
a very different quality,
the song, Bow Down O Zion.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
That is that early
laboring kind of song,
you think from the 1820s and the
1830s, which is still holding
on in his repertoire, because
it just serves him well,
and if you look at the
words they fit a lot more
than they would fit Eldress Mary
Ann's major kind of happiness.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes, right.
[ Singing ]
Elder Otis certainly was a
master of the minor song and,
as you say, definitely hearkens
back to the early Shaker song
and with just a real often
mournfulness to those songs.
The -- which I'm very
drawn to, I have to admit,
but that just says
something about me I think.
The -- I think the -- one
thing that you've talked to me
about before, which I find just
is so fascinating, is this --
and you've already mentioned
it, is the relationship
between Mary Ann and Otis.
And so you have this situation
where I mean obviously there's
the collaborative spirit there
and Otis is the one who is
noting down Mary Ann's songs,
and I've even seen in some
of the manuscripts it's
like you know Mary Ann
seems to write a hymn,
which is actually less common.
So most of the things that they
were writing were you know songs
that 1 AB, 1 A's,
1 and B Section,
but then Mary Ann
would write a hymn,
and then the next week
Otis would write a hymn.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: At the end.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
It was like, so the --
you see things like that happen
all the time with the two
of them, and oftentimes there
was, there's even similar,
you know similar words will
pop up in songs that arose
around a similar time,
like just a turn of phrase,
where one of them would --
so there really was just this
intertwining of their lives
and their music and it's
a fascinating thing.
The -- and then there's,
of course, the year 1884
where Elder Otis passes
away and then one sees
in these manuscripts the --
Mary Ann is receiving these
songs from Elder Otis.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried: From the
spirit land, and I'm wondering
if you could just
talk about that
because that's a unique
aspect of Shakerism?
So that in terms of the embrace
of that notion of the presence
of those who have gone before
and those who have passed away
and that it's consistent
through all
of Shaker history,
it seems like --
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried: -- in
terms of the predominance
of you know Mother Ann
receiving a communication,
you know from the
angel of light,
when their ship sprang a leak
on their way to the New World,
and just this conversation
between -- there's a --
it's just a -- there's a
different kind of thin veil
between the -- our world
and the spirit land.
And I think it's worth some
clarification, I think?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Sure.
So the church friend [assumed
spelling] is all around us
and you're right, Mother Ann
starts the whole understanding
of that when she
talked about the angel,
but also there'd be young
believers who would die
and she would see them and say,
I see him traveling from grace
to grace and, or I see
this one or I see that one.
And then very early on
you start having believers
of the understanding
that those who have gone
on before still being with them.
And usually it's encouraging,
it's not usually to recruit,
but it's usually to
encourage and to bless
and to keep you on
the right pathway.
And it's been -- it's
still a part of our life,
it's still very,
very much around us,
and those who can have
the eyes to see and hear,
you know blessed are they
because they help
us to understand it.
When Brother Ted passed, and
his passing was as mourned
and as unexpected
and as unwished
for as Elder Otis'
had been in his day,
Brother Ted would
make appearances.
And one of those appearances
he made was to Sister Milton,
and he was at the head
of the brethren stairs.
And Sister Milton went, Ted,
Ted, get out of the way,
like he was actually there.
And she realized after she said
that, you know but she said,
he was here for a reason, he
wanted us to know something.
And he appeared to her again,
and he just wanted her to know,
to let the family know
that all was well.
And so they -- everyone is here,
I mean I'm not going to bore you
with all these stories
I can give you
from my own life experiences
here with the various people,
especially if they're passing,
and knowing that somebody
is coming to take them home.
Elder Otis was in
that same vein,
I will give you this bit yet,
so he died on a Sunday morning,
the family here was
anxious beyond belief.
They would get a telegram, and
Elder Otis ate a piece of bread
with a -- a two by two inch
piece of bread with a little jam
on it, and we rejoice.
You know, but then he dies.
And Sister Mary Ann Hill
was getting ready to come
down to come to meeting,
and she looked out
and she saw Elder Otis and Elder
Joseph walking down the road
and going into the
ministry shop.
And she broke down and
she says, he's gone,
he's gone, I just saw them.
And shortly thereafter the
postmaster brought up a telegram
and it announced that Elder
Otis had, indeed, died.
So the understanding of that,
and then you take the
personal relationship
that Eldress Mary Ann and
Elder Otis in particular had,
she mourned his death for
the whole rest of her life,
which was not long because
she got tuberculosis.
But she couldn't get over it, I
mean every day was a death day
for her basically thereafter.
But what is the song she gets,
you know the very first song,
Sweet Summerland, and
that's not mournful.
>> Kevin Siegfried: No.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
You know, it's as powerful
and strong and up, like so it's
like Mary Ann had a
very different way
of expressing grief
than most people do.
But you know when you get
into the journals like they,
once a year they take all of his
clothes out from the built-ins
and they wash them and dry them.
You know, and then they want
everything preserved just
as if he were still there.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: So the
sense of loss was phenomenal.
And they decided they were
going to try to save her life
and they were going to
send her to South Union,
which is Kentucky, in the
hopes that it was going to --
the climate would help her
and that she would live.
And she stopped in Philadelphia,
and why did she stop
in Philadelphia?
Well, she stopped at the
Shakers in Philadelphia,
but really she stopped
because she wanted
to see Elder Otis'
sister, Annie.
So and came over to
the believers' house
and they had a long
conversation,
and she was in bed, and she had
her last song, which was given
by Elder Otis, and she
wanted Annie to know that,
that her brother
had given a song.
So right to the very
end there was
that connection between them.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
Yes, yes, and that song,
I Walk With Christ In Valleys
Low -- could you sing that song?
[ Singing ]
And that's in 1987, that's
three years after Otis' passing.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: And then
Eldress Hester is going to die
in 88, so within those
four years the ministry
that had been, the
ministry of 1859 were gone.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Gone, yeah,
yeah, and the -- in the --
another one of the unique
things that you have happening
in the -- in the 1880s
is upon the passing
of the Elder Otis is the need
to fill that gap, fill that gap
in terms of spirit and
guidance and the energy,
clearly that was
spurred on by those songs
and the leadership and what-not.
And so you have this --
these holy generation
of young Maine Shakers
at that point filling that
gap, actually doing that,
stepping in along with
Eldress Mary Ann, right,
in the last years of her life.
And so you have that
what you've referred
to as this final
flowering of the --
of Shaker song in
the 19th Century
in the Maine communities.
Who were some of the people who
were involved in that flowering?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
It's like everybody.
It really became
quite contagious.
Eldress Mary Ann reached
out to the young sisters,
and the young sisters are
usually people you would refer
to once they had left school,
as it were, probably from 16
to 25, that's a grouping.
And they loved her, and her
lively spirit spurred them on,
and when got a song another
one had to get a song.
And if you, and I
know you have looked
at the manuscripts you can see
name after name after name.
They all wanted a song, and
some of them are good and some
of them are not so good.
And you know here at Sabbathday
Lake Eldress Prudence received
many, they're hopelessly
mournful mostly.
We do still sing one of hers,
Precious Faith I Call Onto Thee.
Sister Sarah Fletcher, who
was the family deaconess,
she received a lot of songs.
We still sing two of hers, My
Dear Companion, Let's Move On,
and O Give Me A Little Love.
And at Alfred you had everyone,
you know Sister Aliza
Jeffers had them,
Eldress Ariad had them.
Oh, you just keep going,
it's literally everybody
in that generation all
had, and they all see
to be really inspired
by Eldress Mary Ann
and you get the whole character
of the song and you get
that whole commitment to faith.
And really in a very strong way
these were all things saying I
am going to stay a Shaker.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: And
you know with the beauty
of my home how could
I ever leave it?
And these were the songs
that they were all receiving.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: So it
was definitely a commitment,
and I want to go
back to one thing.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: One
of Elder Otis' last gifts
to the community, which
was total and everlasting,
was in 1880 he redid the
structure of Sabbathday Lake,
and he put in Elder
William and Eldress Lizzie,
he put in Sister Sarah
and Sister Amanda
as the family deaconesses.
And those four people stayed in
the positions of power from 1880
until they all died,
1923, 1926 and 1930.
So you've got this incredible
span with the same group
of people, who were all
trained by Elder Otis,
who were all very much of his
philosophy and his theology,
guarding and trying to guide
through two generations
of Shakers thereafter, to
stay with -- stay the course.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
And that carries
over into the 20th
Century Shakers who left
with those people and so
you have a really a direct,
a direct linkage there.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
And because we're living
in this house, you know
this is what killed him.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: Build this house.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Building
this house that you're --
that you're in, which was --
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: That's right,
in 1883 this was his last house
and the builders were
always doing something wrong
and Elder William would
write and say this,
so Elder Otis would
come over from Alfred.
He came over in January
to correct whatever they had
done wrong the day before,
and he went up to his house, the
ministry shop, and he slipped
on the ice on the granite
steps and broke some ribs.
And it felt bad, but he went,
well, of course, you know one
of the big things with broken
ribs is you get pneumonia
and in 1884 there's
no hope for you.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yeah.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
That's just what happened,
and so he got pneumonia
and died.
But it was this house.
So he was seen around
this house all the time
of its construction,
and when they dedicated
on Thanksgiving Day of 84 it
was really a two-hour funeral,
is what it was.
It was a total dedication, not
of the house, but of Elder Otis.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: But
the ministry Sisters oversaw it
and they made sure that's
what was happening --
his songs, his hymns,
everything about him,
that's what this whole house
was about, was about him, so.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes, and
so I mean you live in that,
that memorial really,
the dwelling house is a
memorial building in a way.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
Yes, and the --
how about hearing a couple
of those later songs?
The Mother Let Us Come
With a Beautiful Song?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
Okay, I think we need to talk
about that song because --
>> Kevin Siegfried: Absolutely.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: --
that is one of those
little minor songs,
which you know would have
passed away, and again it's only
because of one person
that song lived,
and because of that one
person who was so connected
to that one person it lives.
And that again it's Sister
Mildred, who is above me,
when she was a little
girl she was
to help Sister Paulina Springer,
who was the oldest member
of the second family, and
she was to make her bed,
sweep her room, dust
things, keep it clean.
And she loved Paulina
and Paulina loved her,
and Paulina had these
little peppermints
and she would give
Sister Mildred one.
And Eldress Harriet found
about that, she put a swift end
to that, she said you don't
take that Elder lady's candy.
And she said, she offered
them to me, Eldress Harriet.
And so then the next day
Paulina tries to give her one
and she said she
can't, she said Sister,
she said Eldress Harriet will,
she won't like it at all,
and she said we won't tell her.
So anyway, but she was just a
saint of God, and she loved her
to death, and she was the
first person she knew who died.
And Paulina, and she said didn't
really die of anything special,
the life just kind
of went out of her
and she knew she
was going to die.
So the family was all called
in to make their farewells,
and they do it by age, so Sister
Mildred was the youngest one
in the family so she was
the last one in line.
And she took Sister Paulina's
hand and Paulina said, noted,
I want you to promise
me something.
And she said, oh, I would
have promised her anything
in the world.
And she said I want you to
promise me you'll make a Shaker.
And she said, well, of
course, I promised her,
but it took me a great
many years to find
out what I had really
promised her.
And so that love, Paulina
lived because of her song.
So when she would sing the song
she's seeing Sister Paulina.
And, of course, what
happened in turn was
when we hear the song we
think of Sister Mildred.
And that's the song, that's the
last song she heard on earth,
excuse me, as we surrounded her.
Shakers aren't supposed to die,
as we live together
we die together.
So when it's possible when
you know the spirit is leaving
everybody gathers around
the person and in prayer.
And in her instance we gathered,
not only in prayer but in song,
so we sang Mother Is Coming --
>> Kevin Siegfried:
And this was the song.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: And
over and over again for her.
So anyways --
[ Singing ]
That song is unusual
from the 1890s,
to still have vocables
being incorporated into it.
And Sister Mildred said
that Paulina told her
that she learned it
from a little bird.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And so
it harkens back to the 1840s
in a way, that era,
manifestations era when you --
when that kind of
song with vocables
in the B section
was very common.
And there's another
song, a later song
from that fervent
later period --
I Will Come Down The
Valley by Eva Frank,
which is a song you still
sing and that it's --
these are oral tradition songs.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
Right, and I don't know who,
whose fancy that caught
that it stayed, that it kept
on in the repertoire because
it is a Sabbathday Lake song,
so it wasn't something, it was
something that Sister Elsie
and Sister Elizabeth and all of
those would have known and sung.
Because Eva, it was
Eva was brought up here
and was I think not so
secretly not happy about it,
but she was trained as a
schoolteacher and so she stayed
and she taught school
for two terms,
which would then qualify her
as being certified,
and she could leave.
And she had her brother
come serendipitously
and take her off, and sort
of that was the end of her.
So when you leave a kind of bad
feeling in the people's minds,
as that did, it's really
odd that the song lasted.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh,
but clearly it struck something
and it also, it also
feels like it,
it's a song that harkens
back a little bit also.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: It's
the whole, that whole kind
of flowing thing that goes,
and it must have been
almost a walking march
because it just flows so slowly.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: You know,
but it has a lilt
and a beauty to it.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. Let's hear that song?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Okay.
[ Singing ]
>> Kevin Siegfried: It's
a haunting song as well.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: It is, isn't it?
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes, yes.
And I agree with you, it
seems like almost a walking,
walking slow march, yes.
The -- I think that one
of the things that --
that, and if we could sort
of just switch gears and pull
out a little bit in terms of
like a wider, a wider focus?
I often wonder is if, certainly
and I have that experience
in going through
the manuscripts --
one of the outstanding aspects
of Shaker song is the sheer
prolific quality and the --
and it makes me think
of a number of things.
For one I feel like it seems
like the Shaker focus has always
been in a way on moving forward
and these songs, I feel like at
some point there would have been
such a saturation
of music and songs
that people would have
stopped and it would have been,
they would have said enough,
we have enough songs, you know?
So the -- but there was
always, it was moving forward,
but it also makes me think that
the songs are more an outgrowth,
almost you could
even say a byproduct
of the spiritual practice.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Right.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And the
gripping onto them as material
or as -- or as it was not
the point, it was really
about the songs happened because
of something else happening,
meaning living the
life of a Shaker.
And I'm wondering if you
could just talk about that
because I've always been
intrigued by this notion,
just because it's unique in --
it's unique in the
history of American music.
We can just contextualize it
within that we don't
see anything
like this happening
anywhere else in terms
of the sheer number of people
because we're never talking
about in terms of all of
Shakerdom we weren't talking
about how many thousands
of people.
I mean we're not talking
about a huge number of people.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Right.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
But the volume
of musical output is really
extraordinary, so the --
I guess I'd love to hear
your thoughts on that?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Sure.
Well, a couple of things.
One, Sister Aurelia
writes down in her journal,
reminiscing of her life.
And in the 1840s there were
so many songs coming in,
one of the Elders said we will
not know any song then before
this time period.
And Sister Aurelia spoke up
and says, oh, nay, I know songs
and they'll never
leave the repertoire.
And she's writing in 1890 and
says, and now I'm the only one
in the community who knows
this song, and I'm going
to have somebody
else note it for me
so it doesn't die all together.
And it was true,
so what you had was
and especially what
really derails in the sense
of this tradition is the
1840s, during the revival.
Songs, being given as gifts
in some appreciable way,
either you have a vision
or you have a song,
you were receiving a notice
from the heavens and, therefore,
it is like you know sort of
a gold star on your head.
And some of the people
would just receive hundreds
and hundreds and
hundreds of songs.
They would just turn
around, the beginning
of a song, and something else.
And the scribes just
talk about we can't keep
up with this production level,
you know this is impossible.
And also because they
saw this as a notice,
so when they had
some young person
who was receiving hundreds
of songs and they up
and leave they don't
understand it.
They said, this is not one
and one equaling two here,
this is something really wrong.
And you know human nature,
of course it's always
going to be wrong.
But so the song and the
songs are going to live
because they have
purpose and use,
and a lot of songs were received
because of certain
circumstances.
And we know that only
because we know that.
So there's a lot of
other songs, we just have
to assume were also, because
there was some tension going
on in the family, that
somebody starts writing a lot
of union songs, let's
bring people back together,
let's start thinking
about how the oneness
of the faith is going to be.
And you start thinking about the
themes that are always apparent
and repeated through
probably 40, 50 years,
and it's about being obedient,
it's about loving God,
it's about loving your home,
and most importantly it's
about loving one another.
So obviously you
have the usual grind,
it's you know people aren't
getting along and we're trying
to work that out in the songs
to make you appreciate
what you're supposed to do.
And we also have to realize
Shakers don't really have a
theology, right?
We do not have a
creed, therefore,
what we really believe
theologically comes out more
in our songs than it
comes out anywhere else.
And your average believer
is not going to sit down
and read 600 pages of
Christ's second appearing,
that was for the world
who wanted to look
at things academically.
Shakers wanted to look
at things practically,
and that comes through
in a song.
And so you're also encouraged
in those songs to think
about humility, to
think about givenness,
to think about forgiveness
and all those things
that just make life easier and
harmonious when you have 40
to 80 people living together
and trying to get all
of those problems, and
how do you solve them?
So that's how they could
just keep coming in,
and no one thought anything
of it, because first
of all they wanted something
new and we are looking
for something more progressive.
And so right up until the
1890s that's what you get,
and then you get just we
kind of lost it, frankly.
I mean it was just we wanted
to be like everybody else
in the world, you
know they started
to lose the distinctiveness of
what it was to be a believer
and what it was, how
our music looked.
For instance, when early
Shaker spirituals came out,
because Dan Patterson
comes in in the early --
around 1960 and here's a
man discovering Shaker music
for the first time.
He doesn't want to
hear four-part harmony
from you know the 1905
Canterbury hymnal,
he wants to hear what was the
power within the communities
that made it last so long?
He wants to hear I want, I feel
the need of a deeper baptism.
He wants to hear
those kinds of songs.
He wants to record them,
document them, and
have them live.
And through his relationship,
especially with Sister Mildred,
he pulls that ahead and that's
how early Shaker Spirituals
comes out in 63 or 65.
And so he took it to Canterbury
and they wouldn't even listen
to it, they thought it was
horrible and they were ashamed
of it and embarrassed.
They didn't want their neighbors
to know that those were songs
of the Shakers because
it wasn't worldly enough.
>> Kevin Siegfried:
Those older songs, yeah.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Yeah,
they wanted nothing
to do with them.
They had done with them, they
had given them the benefit of --
from generations before, that
was going to benefit them,
whereas, what it did at
Sabbathday Lake was say, okay,
Sister, teach us more.
And so she gets to
reintroduce her childhood
to a new generation of
people, who were just hungry
to hear them and take them up.
And so meetings starts to change
from these little
Canterbury songs,
these little what Sister Mildred
called Sunday School songs,
and actually gives more grit,
more firmness to the testimony
of believers, not
only what we said,
but more importantly
with what we sang.
So that's where we are today.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And
that's where that --
that's where you get that link,
I mean Sister Mildred really
being that crucial link, right,
in terms of having
those songs in her ears,
having those memories and
stories and being able
to I mean really be the conduit
for those, for that early --
for that early repertoire.
You really have sister
Mildred being the conduit
for those early songs.
>> Brother Arnold
Hadd: Completely.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Yes,
and that -- and, as you say,
that brings you to where you're
at in the present day in terms
of how these songs
have remained alive
in an oral tradition
throughout this time period,
even though there was a period
where you said essentially
you get to the --
you get to the end of the 19th
Century, early 20th Century,
where it, essentially the
new songs stopped, right?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Right.
>> Kevin Siegfried: So the
new songs stopped and so
that constant fervor that
you find in really all
of the documented Shaker
history through the manuscripts,
you know all of the history,
you know and going back
to the beginning, you know
that fervor is there, it stops,
but then Sister Mildred forms
the bridge to the present day.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Correct.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And the --
I'm curious to get a sense of,
as we reach the end of this
Part Two, just to get a sense
of your -- we've been through
a very unusual two years,
and the steady flow of visitors
that you were used to having
at Sabbathday Lake has
obviously, you know needed,
has been required to stop
because you've been
closed to the public.
The -- and yet at the same
time the level of outreach
and extra programming and
Sabbathday Lake has just entered
into a capitol campaign,
a very significant one,
which is documented
on the website.
It seems like you're now in the
place of reaching more people.
Your community is widening
beyond your immediate
environment and their reach
in terms of the workshops
that you've been doing.
You've been doing weekly videos.
You've been doing
you know workshops --
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Uh-huh.
>> Kevin Siegfried: --
and the Shaker kitchen
and you know just
bringing people
into your life and home there.
And I'm just, I'm curious where
you are at right now in 2022,
and how you're visualizing you
know your role and your place
in the world, and
what your dreams are?
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
In 30 seconds or less.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Big vision.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd: Well,
you know I think it's been
a good time of reflection
for us actually, to be able
to better understand
ourselves and our lives.
Sister June, before she came to
the community was a librarian,
and she has a librarian's
disposition.
So not having people
around has made her as happy
as she's ever been in any
years of vocation here.
But you know practically
speaking we can't stay closed
forever and nor do we really
wish to, and we're hoping
that come upcoming season
beginning in May we'll be able
to open up again and
have more people in.
We have to define what that's
going to be because we have
to be safe and we have to do
things practically as well,
but we need to support
ourselves,
so we also need that outreach.
And I think it's very
important that we have outreach,
so I'm willing to give of my
time and talents to make sure
that happens, that our voice
is heard, that the message
of the gospel is spread
in any way which we can.
What we've always been
taught is that it's done
in very practical terms.
Mother Ann said, you are my
epistles to be written on event,
that the gospel will go
to the ends of the earth,
not so much by the
preaching of the people,
but by their good works.
What behooves us in our good
works, we can't just get
up in a meeting and say
something and then go
out of the door and practice
something totally different.
And so it is a way of us helping
to bridge that gap of isolation
for some other people to bring
them close to Sabbathday Lake.
Before the pandemic we had
between 20 and 30 people coming
to meeting on Sundays, every
Sunday even in the winter,
and so they were
feeling that loss
of community more than most.
So that's why we decided
to do the weekly videos
and we'll continue
on in that tradition
for the foreseeable future.
And the workshops,
that was Jamie's idea,
our Office Manager, to get
things more opened up and try
to bring in some income as
well, which is much needed too.
So it's all about engagement,
I guess, and the need
to engage people and to let
people know about the message,
and the message is
Shakerism is alive
and living at Sabbathday Lake.
And it is our prayer and
it is my fervent belief
that that is always
going to be the case.
How many, I can't tell you, but
there will always be a community
because I think if we're called
to God and we feel we are
and we're doing God's work
and we feel we are we'll
always be sent vocations.
So it is our prayer
to continue on,
and we would ask your
prayers for the prosperity
and the security of
this community as well.
And what we send to all is that
our universal peace to everybody
out there because you know
we're all in it together.
And one thing we have to
remember at this time,
especially of great division,
is that there are no divisions.
God has created us all, every
single one of us and, therefore,
we're all equal in
God and, therefore,
we're all in one family.
And we have to start practicing
that unity, which is at the core
of believers' lives, and we
have to make it not just for us,
but we have to make
it for all of us.
>> Kevin Siegfried: Beautiful.
It's been a pleasure
talking with you today.
>> Brother Arnold Hadd:
It's been a pleasure to talk
to you, as always, Kevin.
>> Kevin Siegfried: And
we could go on, of course,
for many more hours, but I --
there are obviously many more
songs to sing and to talk about,
and we'll get another chance
to do that another time.
And thank you, all, for
tuning in, and thank you
to The Library of Congress.