>> Stephen Winick: Welcome.
I'm Stephen Winick of the
American Folklife Center
of the Library of Congress.
For many years, we have
presented the Homegrown Concert
Series featuring the best
in folk music and dance
from around the world.
In the year 2020, because
of the global pandemic,
we shifted to producing an
online video concert series
in which artists record videos
of themselves and submit them
to us, and we call that
series Homegrown at Home.
So, 2021 was our second year
of Homegrown at Home concerts.
And it's now early 2022,
and we're doing interviews
with the artists who performed
in the Homegrown at
Home 2021 series.
We were very honored
in our series in 2021
to have a group representing
traditional Corsican polyphony,
Spartimu.
The group has devoted the
better part of 20 years
to traditional polyphonic
singing as passed
on in the oral traditions
of Corsica.
But they have also worked with
artists as far flung as Croatia,
Georgia, and the United States.
So, we are joined today
by Frederic Vesperini
from Spartimu, whose American
friends call him Fred.
So, Fred Vesperini,
welcome to our interview.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
Thank you.
>> Stephen Winick:
So, I guess to begin,
just let us know how
things are going in Corsica
in the pandemic recovery.
I know you had some
troubles early on there.
Are things getting better there?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
things are getting
slightly better,
better and better each day.
By singing we are -- there is
a presidential election soon.
So, politics will be -- will
change, will change very fast
to free everyone and to
catch the mask and to go out
and to eat and to drink
and to sing, I think.
>> Stephen Winick: All
right, well, good luck.
We hope everyone stays
well and healthy.
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
>> Stephen Winick: So, to
begin, before we start talking
about music and polyphony,
what do you think is important
for our audiences to know
about Corsica in general,
so to get the context?
>> Frederic Vesperini: To get
the context, you have to look
for -- to search for
Corsica on the world map,
and you will see a very
small island in the center
of the Mediterranean Sea.
And you will understand when
you see our position in the --
in this beautiful sea, how
we have been influenced
by all the countries and
culture surrounding Corsica,
bringing their influence.
And as we are a very small
island, each influence grew
and melted and mixed with
each other influences
to give what we are
now, our culture.
It's a very beautiful mix
of different cultures all
around this beautiful sea.
>> Stephen Winick: All
right, tell us a little bit
about the Corsican language,
which is a unique language.
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
Corsican language is
strongly connected
and similar to Italian language.
When we go to Italy and we
speak with Italian people,
we understand naturally,
and it's very easy
to understand each other.
But as we are in this very
small island with big mountains,
the Latin and the
Italian language brought
in Corsica evolved its own way
and gave this specific
Latin-Italian style language.
>> Stephen Winick: And
of course, politically,
Corsica is connected more
closely to France than to Italy.
So, how does that affect
the Corsican culture?
>> Frederic Vesperini: If you
studied the Corsican history,
you will see that all the
-- our history is like this,
we are French [inaudible]
this part of Italy.
And we have been
Italian more than French,
and we have been Spanish.
We have been English.
We have been under
many, many, many rule,
and countries will try to
conquer this small island.
So, our deep culture
is more connected
to Italy than to France.
We are French since
now 250 years.
So, of course, Corsica, like
any island, has a unique culture
and unique music and,
one of these features
of Corsican music is a
specific type of polyphony.
What do you understand
about the origins
of this Corsican
polyphony on the island?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
The origin of --
trying to find the origin of an
[inaudible], it's very difficult
because it is an
oral transmission.
So, there is no written papers,
no written old studies
about Corsican music.
But you can find a beautiful mix
of influences with sacred songs
from the Roman culture,
the Latin culture,
and the Christian culture.
So, written sacred
music formed from a monk
and monasteries blended with a
much older singing tradition,
more rough, with not
very just harmonies.
Sometimes harmonies, making
people listening to us,
make like this, because we are
not in a very specific chord
and minor and major
[inaudible], etcetera, etcetera.
So, the blend from those
two big influences gave the
Corsican polyphony.
>> Stephen Winick:
And one of the things
that I've heard you speak
about in other interviews is
the importance of shepherds
in the early tradition.
Can you talk about the sort
of occupational connection
between shepherds and polyphony?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
the shepherd movement inside
Corsica brought the victor
of the transmission and the
evolution of Corsican music.
I love a beautiful phrase; we
say, Corsica is a constellation
of small villages, and
small villages were very far
from each other and not
very -- enough, you know,
fully connected with
beautiful roads and ways.
So, they were very,
very isolated.
So, the movement
from the ship art all
around Corsica brought
some music
to other village,
blended, evolved.
So, it's a very important role
about the evolution
of music in Corsica.
>> Stephen Winick: Thank you.
So, one of the names for part
of the genre of polyphony
that you sing is
[foreign language].
So, if you could explain to
us what [foreign language] is
or what that phrase means.
>> Frederic Vesperini: [Foreign
language] mean, in English,
to sing like a [foreign
language] is a Corsican word.
We don't have a very
specific origin of this word
because [foreign language]
means -- is connected to a pair,
so two, but most of
the Corsican polyphony,
you have three voices.
So, it's not a logical
explanation.
But [foreign language]
was adopted by UNESCO
as the very specific
term for most of the type
of song you can listen
in Corsican traditional
song, three voices.
The entrance is not in the
same -- in the same time,
in the same pitch, and they
blend a very specific way.
So, it gave this specific name
[foreign language] to sing
like a [foreign language].
>> Stephen Winick: So, explain
that vocal technique a
little bit of the three parts
and the different timing
for entry into the song.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
To understand the --
how it's constructed,
a [foreign language],
you have to put it
back in each context.
It's simply a way for
people to sing together,
even if they don't know
each other at the beginning.
They don't have a pitch.
They don't have a piano or
guitar to take the pitch.
So, the thing in the middle,
common male pitch in a G
or A pitch, and you have one
singer beginning the song.
So, the man who will bring
his bass know the pitch,
listen to the pitch, listen to
the words, listen to the lyrics,
and try to put his bass just
below this middle voice.
And then when you
have the middle voice,
the bass who make the harmony,
you have one top voice going up
and closing the court.
>> Stephen Winick: Great.
So, you're saying it's related a
little bit to practical concerns
of how three people coming
together who hadn't worked
out an arrangement
can come together
and sing harmonically,
which is great.
Very interesting way for this
kind of tradition to evolve.
So, that results in a
certain kind of overlap
of the voices as
singing proceeds.
Can you talk a little bit more
about the sort of structure
of one of these songs?
>> Frederic Vesperini: The most
common [foreign language] kind
of music is always
a poetry with eight
and eight syllables,
so 16 syllables.
You can repeat lyrics
or chant lyrics.
So, it's -- this is very fixed.
The range is in G or A sharp
pitch, and the structure
of the middle G is very
specific to a village
or the microregion
surrounding the village.
So, if you know the
Corsican [foreign language],
when you listen to one specific
[foreign language], you can tell
by your ear it's come from
Corsica as [inaudible]
like this, from north Corsica
or from south, east, west,
this village, this village.
So, each Corsican
singer may know
from which village is come
each song only by hear.
So, when you know all
these [foreign language],
you can improvise.
Improvise, it's not
the good term
because you have
to know the rules.
But you can sing with
people you don't know.
You just tell, I will sing
this [foreign language]
from this village.
I begin, you put your bass,
a friend put the voice,
and we make a beautiful harmony.
>> Stephen Winick: Wonderful.
So, of course, this has
been sung in Corsica
for hundreds of years.
When did people outside
Corsica start
to notice this beautiful
tradition?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
It's very strange
that world most famous
ethnomusicologist knew first
songs from the center of
Africa and places from all
around the world very
deep and very far.
And they give an interest
to our Corsican polyphony
in the 19th Century only.
And when they started to study
it, [inaudible] they find --
they found a very old, very old
[foreign language] very vast,
very big, and very
deep and very rough.
So, they looked late
but very deep.
>> Stephen Winick:
And more recently,
you've mentioned UNESCO,
and they've recognized
the [foreign language]
as an important and
endangered tradition.
They call it intangible
cultural heritage
in urgent need of safeguarding.
So, how has that helped
preserve the tradition?
>> Frederic Vesperini: To
have the acknowledgement
that our culture is in danger,
help people to take conscience.
If the message comes
from outside Corsica,
Corsican people will say,
okay, so if all people
around the world say we are
endangered, we need to take --
to take care and to be more
active to promote our music.
>> Stephen Winick: Sure.
So, it spurred on
preservation efforts at home.
How do people attempt to
preserve this tradition
at home apart from singing?
Are there collecting
organizations, archives,
and those kinds of things to
keep some of this material?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
There is many ways to
preserve the culture.
You have to study it, to record
it, to try to write on paper,
the worlds, the lyrics,
the chord,
the arrangement,
etcetera, etcetera.
But the most important
thing we can do
to save our culture
is to make it live.
If you have a recipe, it's okay,
but you have to cook, to cook
and to share the food
with people you love.
This is the best way to make a
culture stay alive is to sing,
to sing, to sing, to
sing, and to share.
>> Stephen Winick: Absolutely.
So, in your concert that you
did for us, you sang, of course,
Corsican songs, but you
also sang some songs related
to Croatia and to Georgia.
So, you were sort of making a
relationship among different
polyphonies from
different places in Europe.
Explain those connections
if you could a little bit.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
The connection,
the strongest connection we
have with another country,
far from Corsica, is with
the Republic of Georgia.
And it is very strange, it
does not come to Corsican point
of view because we had the
same crush on each culture,
each other culture, from
Corsica and from Georgia.
I am -- I have a
very good friend,
John John [phonetic],
a known musicologist.
And in his -- one of his book,
it describes a USSR TV show
showing a Corsican polyphony.
And each John John,
people listening
to this radio program said,
how people in the small island
far from us sing like us?
So, it's very strange.
It's very unique relationship
between two countries very far,
singing in the same way.
>> Stephen Winick:
And there's no --
so far, there's no
real explanation
of a historical connection
that people have made.
It's just -- it's
still a mystery.
Is that right?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
It is a mystery.
But you have some --
you have some ideas.
But it's a difficult question
when very far in two places,
you have two similar
butterflies.
Shorter wings can say the
ancestor moved into many parts
of places, and the ancestor
made this bit of life look like.
Or they are two very
different ancestors,
and the evolution made
those butterflies look like,
but it's a coincidence.
But we deeply think
it's not a coincidence
because if you study old
movements from mankind all
around the Mediterranean
Sea and Europe,
we may have common ancestors
with Georgian people.
>> Stephen Winick: Sure.
Well, let's talk a little bit
about [foreign language] music
and songs and some of the
themes that are sung about.
I mean, one of the
things that I noticed
in the concert was
Latin liturgical texts
with [foreign language]
style music.
How did that evolve or come
to be part of the tradition?
>> Frederic Vesperini: The way
we sing Latin and Christian song
in Corsica is very specific.
And it explains what I
told you just before is
when you bring something
to Corsica and you stay
and you keep it in a
very, very long time,
it evolves in a Corsican way.
And Corsican people can
appropriate a specific
repertoire of way of singing.
We modify it with what is
the very strong and old way
of singing we have, and it
gives a new kind of singing,
a new kind of culture.
When we sing a Christian
and Latin song,
we add the melismatic movement,
the ornamentation we have
from old people culture.
Okay? So, we don't sing
straight like a monk
in a monastery you can find in
France and in Italy and Spain.
It's very free.
It's -- it becomes a
free Christian monk song.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah,
I mean, it's interesting
because there are
liturgical song genres
and forms throughout Europe
that are very different
from the way it's
done in Corsica.
So, it's really interesting
to see the adaptation
that's been done
to the Corsican tradition
in more general terms.
So, some of the other song sort
of themes that I've noticed
in -- particularly in your
concert but elsewhere also
in Corsican music, one of
them is exile, people having
to be far from Corsica.
Explain that a little bit
historically and also how
that affects the
singing of these songs.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
Exile is what people
from Ireland are more afraid
from because, as an Islander
and living in a very small
place surrounded by the sea,
we are all afraid to go outside
and to be exiled
from our island.
It's not the same feeling
when you are in a big, large,
flat country, when you can --
where you can move very
far and come back easily.
When you go away from Corsica,
it's difficult to come back
because of the landscape
and the sea and everything.
So, we have this deep feeling
to be afraid to be exiled.
So, it's -- this theme
is very often present
in the song we have
in our repertoire.
Yes.
>> Stephen Winick: Interesting
and another thing that you sang
about quite often in your
concert was Napoleon Bonaparte.
Most people think of
him as French but,
of course, he was Corsican.
So, explain the importance
of Napoleon still
in Corsican culture.
>> Frederic Vesperini: Napoleon
Bonaparte is born in Ajaccio.
It's the city where
I live and I work.
So, even if what he did is
controversial [inaudible]
because of, he wasn't a big
emperor who ruled over Europe.
He made beautiful
things and bad things.
So, in Corsica we have the
same feeling toward him,
from the good things,
from the bad things.
It's very strange feeling
with Napoleon Bonaparte.
But we are very proud to
have this little man who had
such an extraordinary destiny.
>> Stephen Winick: So, Corsican
polyphony now has been a global
music that people have
been aware of, I mean,
on the music scene at
least now for about,
I guess, 30 or 40 years.
I can think of groups like
[foreign language] these groups
that were important
on the European traditional
folk music scene.
Talk about that sort of
revival movement that occurred.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
This musical revival
movement is connected
to a political movement we
call in the Corsican language,
[foreign language],
mean the reappropriation
of a culture by people.
In the '70s, we took conscience
that our culture was
slightly dying by the dilution
in the French language
and French culture
and the French political
influence.
So, the political
movement was followed
by the musical movement,
who helped a lot
to promote language,
music, culture, etcetera.
And we made -- a Corsican
group made the opening
of the Winter Olympic
Games, if I am not mistaken.
So, yes, it was a very important
moment for Corsican culture
to spread and to be promoted.
>> Stephen Winick: And it's
interesting that you mentioned
that tat sort of
regional language
and culture movement
because, of course,
within the larger
political scene
of France that's also occurred
in other places like Brittany
and Alsace to some
extent and other areas.
Do Corsican groups communicate
with their counterparts
in Brittany and other
areas of France
that have had similar movements?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
Yes, there is a strong
connection with each region
of France, we struggle to --
for the survival of language
and poetry and music
and culture.
But the very particularity
we have in Corsica is
that we are on an island.
So, it is a little bit -- it
is a little bit more different.
The culture is maybe more
strong, and when we have --
and we have to fight more.
Okay? But the French
government is very afraid
if it gives some freedom
to one region, it is --
the French government is
afraid to give freedom
to all the region who ask.
So, it's very difficult.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah.
So, they're thinking
of the larger picture.
And it impedes what people
can do in the smaller areas
in places like Corsica.
Interesting.
So, we're -- so we've
talked about the sort
of revival movement that
occurred in the '70s and after,
and then let's talk
about Spartimu itself.
When was your group founded, and
how did it fit into that scene?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
We don't count,
but we can estimate maybe 15
years ago, first gathering
between friends who want to sing
like [inaudible] just
sharing music, singing,
come to [foreign
language] together.
And a step after a step, we
took a health professional way.
Because we don't live with the
music concert and promotion.
We don't earn money.
It's not our job.
But we try to make it
like professional people
with a lot of works.
I think we did not miss
one rehearsal in 15 years.
Rehearsal are very important.
Because [foreign language],
you don't have any instrument,
and you only can rely on
your friend next to you.
So, you are building
a kind of music
with no instruments
only polyphony.
It's very, very difficult.
>> Stephen Winick:
Yeah, it's interesting,
because you mentioned that the
way the tradition evolved was
to let people spontaneously
come together
and sing songs together.
But that's not what we're
hearing when we listen to groups
like yours because you have
worked work together so much.
So, it's sort of -- it allows
for that at the outset.
But then you have
to be very detailed
about your work together
in order to get it to work
as beautifully as it
does for Spartimu.
So, talk about that
work of rehearsing.
What are you working
out in those moments?
>> Frederic Vesperini: We try
to -- when I make -- when we --
by example, when we
work on a new song,
I try to keep the way the song
where [inaudible] centuries ago.
I don't play the whole song
to my friends of Spartimu.
I sing the middle voice, so
they have my melody in mind.
I tell them at this
moment you make this bass
and this bass and this bass.
So, the bass enter, and once
you have my voice and the bass,
I tell to the tenor of the
group, you will make this voice
to make this harmony, a
major chord, a minor chord,
a fifth chord, the seventh
chord, etcetera, etcetera.
So, we try -- I try
to let the surprise --
to give my friend the surprise
of discovering the song.
And we tried to build
it from the ground.
I never play as -- for Georgian
music and [inaudible] music,
for outside Corsican music.
We always build the
song together.
We don't learn from
the whole song
in the [inaudible],
in the [inaudible].
>> Stephen Winick: And that sort
of brings up another question.
You talk about the chords
that you're forming,
the seventh chords
and everything.
What is the musical training
like typical in Corsica?
Do people get music in school
and have an understanding
of harmonies?
Or is this a specialty
that you study?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yeah.
I don't -- I have very
strong difficulties to read
and to write music as
all Spartimu member.
We only work with our ears.
I will say that singing Corsican
[foreign language] is mostly an
ear training process more
than a vocal performance.
We don't learn how to sing.
So, we sing from here.
Sometimes we end a
concert very tight
because we don't have a
beautiful turn off technique
and the technical.
So, it's very difficult to
have a concert because we sing
like it comes, like it goes.
But we pay a very strong
attention to chords
and to what your friends
are doing with you
and in -- at the same moment.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah, it's
a deep, deep listening as --
is more important in a way
than the singing itself.
You have to just
be in that group.
It's very -- it's amazing
what you're able to do,
and it's wonderful to hear it.
So, it -- so, interestingly,
I mean,
this is one important aspect
of Corsican music tradition,
but there must be other
Corsican music as well.
How does the [foreign
language] kind of fit
into a larger Corsican
music scene if there is one?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
You can find different
aspects of the Corsican music
when you move all
around Corsica.
Corsican [foreign language],
only the polyphonic part
of the Corsican repertoire is
mostly present in the middle,
in the center, in the
mountain region of Corsica.
Okay? When you go close to the
sea and to the beautiful beaches
with beautiful blue
sea, you are more --
you have most the
chance to descend
to musical [inaudible]
most close to Italy,
Neapolitan songs, you know
with mandolin, with guitar,
with the flute, with violin.
So, it very depends on
where you are in Corsica.
Okay?
>> Stephen Winick: And so --
but there are movements of
other kinds of folk music,
and I assume there's also
classical and popular music
around in Corsica as well.
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
We -- I will say, we love each
kind of music and we like --
and we love to sing whenever,
in the car, in the bathroom,
in the building, and
everywhere we sing.
We sing a lot of
different variety of music.
And it's like -- I will
say like Georgian people.
We love to sing more in harmony.
So, when you have people close
to you singing the main melody,
what your instinct
tell you to make a bass
or voice, never the unison.
This is very, very old reflex.
>> Stephen Winick:
So, professionally,
has Spartimu been able to tour
within both the French
folk scene
and the larger European
festival scene?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
and we have been more
often outside France
than in France for concept.
We have been in Australia,
in Chicago, in Georgia,
in Sardinia, but only one
of two concert in France.
We love to go -- we
love to make big steps.
So, when we travel,
we travel very far
to discover a very
different culture from ours.
>> Stephen Winick:
And what is it
like to be presenting
traditional Corsican music say
in Australia?
Who are you mostly seeing at
your concerts, and how do you --
how do you teach
and learn from them?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
It's a very strange feeling
when you sing a Corsican song
outside -- from outside Corsica.
You don't sing it the same way.
So, when we move and we
go to another country
to make a concert, we rediscover
our music, our culture,
and we sing it with more heart ,
nd we are more involved
in singing.
Because we want to
share so much,
but sometimes we make surprise.
We had an old Scottish song
in Australia in a village,
and the people from this village
were from Scottish migrants.
Yeah, so it was fantastic
to see Australian
people singing our music
and singing with us together.
>> Stephen Winick: That's
-- yeah, that's wonderful.
It must be -- you know, now
in the days of recordings
and things, people have heard
at least some Corsican polyphony
when you get there, and they --
you have little fans in
Australia and wherever you go.
So, that must be a
nice feeling as well.
So, tell us about --
you mentioned that
you've been to Chicago.
So, tell us about your
experiences in the US
as a touring Corsican group.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
As we are friends
with the [inaudible] Village
Harmony, we were invited by --
so by [inaudible] and Molly
Stone from Village Harmony
to perform concert in Chicago.
In Chicago, it was a
very beautiful moment
because this [inaudible]
Village Harmony,
and Molly Stone is
music teacher.
And she taught a Corsican
song to 100 young singers
from the Chicago Children's
Choir, and we made a concert.
And we let them sing
this Corsican song.
I had tears.
When you listen to people
from so far singing your
culture, it's incredible.
>> Stephen Winick: And
especially when they're kids
and you know they might grow
up and, you know, keep doing it
and keep learning more about it.
So, have you worked with Village
Harmony and other contexts
as well as the Chicago trip?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
Village Harmony comes
each two years in Corsica.
They bring a group of
twenty or thirty singers.
We make beautiful workshop
in Corsica, northern Corsica.
So, I teach them Corsican songs.
And after a few days, we
make concert with them.
And people from Corsica ask
us each two years, Fred,
when does the American comeback?
We want to listen
to the American people
are singing Corsican music
in the small church
of [inaudible].
You can only put 100
people in the church,
and it's a beautiful concert.
>> Stephen Winick: And I
know they've been important
in helping you also teach the
tradition to Americans, as well.
So, talk a little bit about
your teaching as opposed
to the performing part.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
The teaching is very --
it's a very difficult process
because our music
is not written.
You don't have scores.
We don't have any music sheet.
So, the process of learning
Corsican music is only
by the overall transmission,
then your audience,
your students have to focus on
what you say, what you sing.
And they have to
reproduce the voices and try
to blend the voices together.
So, it's a very difficult job.
But it's so grateful job
because when you build this song
with people you don't know
in one hour or two hours
and they sing like you of
Corsican music, it's wonderful.
They don't read music.
They have to reproduce only by
hear what I tell them to do.
So, it's very difficult
for me and for them also.
>> Stephen Winick: And you've
done that, not only in the US,
but in Australia and other
places in the world as well.
Do you find there's any
difference in the --
in different countries
about how people are able
to assimilate this?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes,
I think that the youngest
countries in the world,
especially when -- where you
don't have a strong polyphonic
culture, they are not
used to work like this.
So, they are asking always
for scores, for music sweet.
But friends, we can sing.
We don't have the partition.
We don't have the music.
Okay, so I will tell you,
you will make what I
do, and it will work.
Okay. So, it's a --
but it's beautiful,
because we give them a new
process to learn songs.
So, they can focus on other
countries like Corsica,
like Georgian music, and like
other polyphonic tradition.
It gives them a new
way to learn music.
So, it's very nice.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah,
you're giving them new tools
that they didn't have before
because they were too reliant
on the ones that they had.
Yeah. That's very interesting.
So, you had talked
a little bit before
about politics in general?
How has politics
affected Corsican music
over the last few
years do you think?
>> Frederic Vesperini:
It's a difficult question
because music is connected
to language, to identities.
So, you have to take a step
back and to have a global vision
of what France action was
toward Corsican culture.
Like I said before, France does
not want the France territory
to be cut in pieces, you know,
and to -- okay, and to explode.
So, they took a lot of
decisions that are not very good
from our point of
view for our culture.
Corsican language is not
a language for France.
It is, according
to the definition
in the book, it is a language.
A language is an
ensemble of words
to communicate in a community.
Okay? But Corsican language,
it's not recognized by France
like a specific language.
It's just a way of talking
in the small islands.
It's not a language.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah.
So, that's going to affect all
kinds of interesting things.
Yeah, everything.
Yeah. Yeah, that is
-- that's unfortunate.
And so, one thing that I
noticed also is that --
so we're talking about
politics, but there's also sort
of social changes and social
developments all over the world.
And one thing that's interesting
about the Corsican
polyphonic tradition is that,
until recently, it's
exclusively male.
That is, you know, this
is a singing tradition
that men traditionally
did and women didn't.
But now I think that's
changing to some extent.
So, talk about the entry of
women into the tradition.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
Yes, the entry of the woman
into Corsican tradition,
it's -- it is logical.
And when we make workshop,
we have more women than men.
It's not because we are nice
guys and with black shirts
and with the kind
of [inaudible].
But women -- but it's not --
because they want to appropriate
the Costigan polyphony,
and they want to
sing Corsican songs.
Now, they can because we
are in this century, now.
They are allowed.
The world is not allowed.
They can because
they have time to.
About 200, 300, and
400 years ago,
they did not have
time to sing with men.
It was -- singing Corsican
polyphony was a role devoted
to men because of the social
conditions of this old time.
Okay? It's not a will to
separate men and women,
but it was different
activities depending
of if you are a man or woman.
>> Stephen Winick: Yeah.
So, when we talked about
the shepherd connection,
and that's one of
those conditions.
Right?
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
>> Stephen Winick: That the
shepherds were typically men,
and so they worked together
for long periods of
time [inaudible].
So, there was never a --
it was never a forbidden for
women to sing these songs.
It just didn't happen
naturally very much.
>> Frederic Vesperini: Yes.
And if you go in a wedding
or funerals in Corsica,
in some villages you
have always 'til today,
the way of placing peoples in
the church, the men in the left,
the women the right, and
only men are allowed to sing
with the priest, the abattoir.
Okay? So, it's a -- 'til today,
this separation is
still life [inaudible].
>> Stephen Winick: Interesting.
So, well, you know, it's good,
I think, that, as you say,
women are entering
this tradition.
And it's very logical, and
it sounds like it's going
to be popular as well
for women to sing this,
so we can be happy about that.
What other changes do you think
might be in store for the future
of Corsican music, polyphony
and other types of music?
>> Frederic Vesperini: I think
we are a little bit afraid
of the changes we can bring to
the Corsican way of singing.
Each time I make a workshop,
each time I teach Corsican
music, I try to be as close
as possible as what I
heard when I was a child.
And from the recorded --
the recordings we have from the
beginning of the 19th Century,
we try to keep this
specific way of singings.
And we don't want to be pop
singers singing Corsican music,
everything to be flat, to be
perfect, to be beautiful, to be,
you know, with all
the assistance
of the computer you can bring
to music, to erase all --
not outside the box,
outside the ranch.
We want to sing as
close as possible
as the traditional
singers we heard,
and we respect it very much.
>> Stephen Winick:
Very interesting.
So, let's talk just
a little briefly
about making the video
that you made for us.
You went to several different
places to sing but one
of them is the place where you
said you never missed rehearsal
in all these years and, you go
to the same church to rehearse.
So, talk about your
relationship with that place.
>> Frederic Vesperini: When
we sing in this church,
it is not because we make
the promotion of our work
on [inaudible] Christianity
or of our religion.
But when we sing in a
church with our team --
as a team, we are five singers.
When we sing in a church, we are
six because the harmony we try
to make in a church, like
Sardinian singers trying
to make beautiful
harmony, beautiful chorus,
only with the three or four
notes, it's a challenge.
So, we are strongly
connected to our churches
because they are the first
houses built in Corsica
and where all the
Corsican people gather
and make baptism,
wedding, funeral.
So, there is a strong
connections with the churches,
but mostly for the sound,
not for the religion part.
>> Stephen Winick: And
another aspect of the film
that was wonderful was the
drone footage of Corsica.
How did you -- how did you find
that and work it into the film?
>> Frederic Vesperini: I wanted
people to see more Corsica
than Spartimu singing.
And I am so amazed by our
landscape, even when I go
to work and when I go
from a place to another.
Sometimes I stopped in my
car or in my motorcycle,
I look at mountain to see
everything surrounding me.
And I am so happy to live in
this beautiful piece of heaven,
that I wanted to show
you where we live,
and I hope you enjoyed all
the beautiful landscapes.
>> Stephen Winick: Well,
I have to say it was a --
it was not just a
wonderful concert,
but it was a wonderful film.
And it looked like, you
know, a real piece of cinema
that you could go to the
-- go to a theater and see.
It was just beautifully done.
So, thank you so much for
putting that together, Fred,
and thank you for
participating in this interview
and in our concert series.
We're just delighted
to have you.
So, for a last question, just
what would you like to say
to our audience if --
that we haven't touched on
yet if there's any advice
or anything you want
to tell them about
your tradition?
>> Frederic Vesperini: I
hope you enjoyed this movie.
I hope you enjoyed what
you saw, what you heard,
and I hope you will
come to Corsica
to discover this
beautiful, I say again,
piece of heaven on Earth.
Please come to Corsica and
visit and contact us and meet us
and just go to Corsica.
>> Stephen Winick: We
will all try to come,
and we will take you
up on your offer.
Thank you so much once again.
Frederic Vesperini
from Spartimu,
Corsican polyphony,
thanks once again.
>> Frederic Vesperini:
Thank you very much.