>> Kathy McGuigan: Hello, my name is Katherine McGuigan, and I'm from the Professional Learning Office at the Library of Congress, and I'd like to welcome you to today's webinar. This is the last in our series on STEM resources, and tonight's webinar is called Parallel Primary Sources for Enhancing STEM experiences. Some housekeeping items before we get started, as you know, we'll be recording this program and we'll serve the recording as soon as we're able. As this event will be recorded, any questions or other participant contributions may be publicly available as part of the Library's archives. You'll have the opportunity to talk to each other and to our presenters via chat, so let's get started with that. While I'm introducing our speakers today, you can use the chat to tell us your name, where you're joining us from and your subject area and grade level. Please make sure you select to everyone or "All Participants" in the to box, and as I mentioned before, today's program is called Parallel Primary Sources for Enhancing STEM Experiences. Our presenters today, you may have been here for the other webinars, but I'd like to reintroduce to you Peter DeCraene and Lesley Anderson. They are two incredibly educational leaders who come to us via the Albert Einstein Distinguished Educator fellowship program from the Department of Energy, and I'll put that into the chat if you are interested in that program. Peter is a veteran math and computer science teacher with more than three decades of experience in middle school and high school classrooms. In 2011, he was awarded the Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching. It's the highest honor bestowed by the US government for K-12 STEM Educators. Lesley Anderson has taught chemistry, biology, environmental science and math to high school students at the High Tech High Schools in the San Diego area for several years, and served as an instructional coach supporting other educators. Outside the classroom. She's worked with NASA to analyze polar climates, studied sea turtles with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and journeyed to the South Pole as a polar trek teacher researcher. Sorry about that. So I'm going to turn things over, I believe, to Peter, and thank you for being here today. >> Lesley Anderson: Thank you, Kathy. I'm actually going to kick us off today, so we're going to start off by reminding ourselves how we're going to use the observe-reflect-question protocol in STEM uing STEM topics. We're going to do a process called parallel primary source analysis, so that we can observe scientific phenomenon from multiple perspectives, and we're going to show you a few examples and how you might connect this to your science classrooms, your STEM classrooms. Go ahead and go to our next slide. Thank you, Peter. So parallel primary sources are when we look at primary sources about the same or about similar topics. This enables students to have an opportunity to closely examine multiple items and make comparisons between those. Our science and engineering practices for the next-generation science standards really emphasize being able to make that compare and contrast, and so we'll talk about some examples for that, and this also allows students to have a focus on multiple perspectives, thinking about not only their own perspective and understanding the resource, but the different perspectives from these different primary sources. So let's take a take a look at our first primary source. So I want you to take just a moment to closely notice and examine what you see in this picture. There is a QR code that's located on there if you would like to zoom in a little bit closer on this particular image, but I just want you to take 30 seconds to closely look and see what you notice in this picture. All right, you got about 30 seconds just to take a close look at this picture and see what things that you're noticing. I'm going to show you one more primary source, and again, you're just going to take 30 seconds to look closely. I want you to think about what do you see and what do you notice? There's another QR code here and Kathy is going to put the link for this particular primary source in the chat as well. All right. So I intentionally showed you one image first, and I gave you some time just to get a chance to interact with the image, and I showed you a second image. I'm going to have Peter put up a screen so we can see both images side by side, and you're also going to notice a little bit of an item record description. And thank you, Tara, for getting us started. What I'd love for you to share with us in the chat is a bit of a reflection. What do you see, what do you think, and what do you wonder by looking at these two parallel primary sources next to each other? So Tara started us off saying I think of hurricane damage, as my husband is from New Orleans. I noticed the flag and cross and red graffiti so I assume there were fatalities there. Anyone else notice some of those in that first particular picture, some of those same details or additional details? And great observation thinking we're talking about New Orleans. Total destruction? Ah, interesting. The first thought for the first one was that this was a tornado, and what made you think it was a tornado? Any thoughts about the comparison between these two primary sources? Leanne notices trees in both the photo and the mural. Matt says that the house on the left looks like it was moved off of its foundation. Great observations. So with your students, you can use this as an opportunity just to get them to practice close-looking, practice getting an opportunity to get really involved in understanding a primary source and taking time to notice what are some of the details in each one of these primary sources and how are they connected? This might also be an opportunity to talk about natural disasters and make connections in that way as well. This is a shared experience in Puerto Rico, Tara says, and then in America, both images side by side. Tragedy, natural disasters and heartbreak happen worldwide. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. So Peter, do you want to go to our next slide? So that was our first example of looking at a parallel primary source analysis with side-by-side comparisons. We have two different perspectives, right, one in which we're seeing kind of the graphic, horrific look at a hurricane, and then the other one, again, same natural disaster, but we're talking about the ways that we're going to be able to lift ourselves up afterwards. So this particular thinking routine of comparing and contrasting different images is a great conversation starter for students. I also love this as being a multidisciplinary approach for elementary school. How could you combine and get the both the science literacy aspect as well as bringing in the humanitarian side? And then, at the secondary level, how might you connect with teachers outside of your discipline in order to have these really rich conversations with students? We're going to take a look at another example of parallel primary sources, and this time, I'm going to have us use our primary source analysis. What do you observe, reflect and question? So just take a moment to look at this image, and I will tell you, this is not a parallel primary source that you're looking at. This is a stereoscope or stereoscopic image, so these are two pictures that are pretty much exactly the same. One of them was taking a couple of inches to the left, so you can visualize it through like a 3D viewing glasses, so I'm not having you look and spot the differences between these two images next to each other. I just want you to take a moment to use your primary source analysis tool to observe, reflect, and question, and go ahead and type your thoughts and responses in the chat. Thank you, Leanne. She notices that we have the notes a slightly damaged house on the bottom left. Yeah, I would say that's pretty damaged. The Johnstown Flood. We have the Johnstown calamity written here. Maybe we're talking about the Johnstown Flood. We see a tree in the window. Yes, that's not normally something we see in a house. Much impact, one can feel the complete tragedy that occurred. Very interesting. What else do you notice? What questions do you have? So Tara, we're just taking a moment to look at this image, and say what we observe and what do we question? What do we think is happening in this picture? Yeah, there's one glass window that remains sort of intact, very interesting observation. How might that have happened? Are there details in the image? Maybe a house torn off its frame. I'm going to share one more image. Peter, if you want to go to the next slide. And I'm going to see if you notice anything new in this second image? Tara, great question, how can they label it a slightly damaged house? It seems a little more than slightly damaged. What new observations and questions do you have from this second image? Great question, Matt. Who is the gentleman? Where did he come from? He was not in the last picture. So we might, with students, use this as an opportunity to get them to think critically about what actually was happening at the time when these two pictures were taken. Thinking about the photographer, what were the choices that the photographer was making in this moment? PRR, from a railroad? Great question. It looks like a tank in the picture. Interesting. So I love that this is generating new questions, and again, we have a really similar perspective on the exact same event that we're taking a look at here, and we're already starting to develop and create some new questions. So Peter, go ahead and go to our next slide. So with students, a very fun activity is to play the Spot the Difference game. You know, in the back of Highlights magazine, they used to have the two pictures and you have to circle the five different things that are different? Giving students an opportunity to do this with a real life example is an awesome opportunity for them to practice and hone their critical thinking skills, so what we have for you in the chat here is a slide deck with just two slides in it, and it's the two images that I just shared with you. If you open that in a new window, and you toggle back and forth very quickly between the two slides, you'll start to notice some of the things that have shifted and moved between one of the images and the other. In fact, this is what I was doing when I was trying to figure out where the differences were between the first picture and the second picture, and I noticed a few small items that had moved only because I was toggling back and forth really quickly between here. So feel free to practice that on another slide, but my question for you is going to be which of these two photos do you think was taken first? And what evidence do you have that that's the order in which those two pictures were taken? So Peter, go ahead and put up our two next to each other. I've just taken one half of the stereoscopic picture so you can see them next to each other if you don't want to be toggling back and forth on a screen, and see if you can spot the differences. Most importantly, which of these two pictures do you think was taken first and why? And if you want to start off in the chat by telling us what differences you're noticing between the two pictures, that's a perfect place to start. Matt says that the bottom left window is more damaged in one of them. Ooh, interesting noticing. The bottom left window. What other differences do you notice? You think that there's a chair in the lower right hand window in the left photo, but not in the right. Maybe it was removed. Tara notices that there's a man and one of the pictures but he's not in the other. Great observation, Mercedes. The perspective is slightly different like the camera was moved. What makes you think that the perspective is different and that the camera might have moved between these two pictures? And then the bonus question for that would be how might you get students to reenact this? If they think and they're convinced that the camera perspective has changed, how might you set up something in the classroom to actually reenact this so that students can show you the angle in which they think that the camera has been changed? The smokestacks in the background on one of them. Oh, interesting observation. So we can see smokestacks in one. We cannot see them in the other. Maybe a swivel perspective. I'm also noticing in the front corner we have a different foreground in one of the pictures than we do, so perhaps not only swiveling, but also moving forward. Anyone else noticing things towards the front and the foreground? There are objects in front of the tank that when you look back and forth between the pictures looks like one is closer than the other? Oh, interesting observations. You're practicing the toggle method. I like that, that decision. What do you notice about the wood panel on the bottom right-hand side? There's like a light-colored kind of white-looking panel that's up on a slope on the bottom right. What do you notice about that? This might be a private chat just to me but I can share this out as well. It looks like one of them is dirty and the other one is more clean. Growth over the one on the left and cleaned up on the right. Beautiful. Thanks, Margaret. Anyone want to take a guess as to which of these two photos was taken first and what evidence might you suggest? The one with the man or the one without the man? The one with a man could have been taken first because of the discoloration it has. Oh, interesting. So thinking about like the quality of the photograph that we're looking at. Liam, why do you think the one with the man was taken first? So when I've done this with students, I have a lot of students that will look at that window that would have been in the top left hand corner of the house, and in the picture with the man, it looks like there's maybe a curtain hanging on a curtain rod, but it's missing in the picture without the man, so I get students who make all sorts of, you know, stories up about, well, maybe the man went up there, and he took it down, and so we think the picture with the man happened first and then the picture after, but then I have other students who say, well, the picture on the right-hand side, that little wood board seems really clean, and so maybe that picture happened first, and the man went up there and hung the curtain in the little -- the curtain on the curtain rod. And Ann's looking at thinking about the chair. So yeah, was the chair used to get into the house or out of the house? These are really great ideas, and allows students to really make connections and interpret what they think is happening. Let's go to our next slide, Peter. Awesome, thank you. So I actually use this activity to teach about the fossil record, which I am assuming you didn't think I was going in that direction with. So when I teach the fossil record, I talk to students about how fossils are like a snapshot in time. We just have one picture and one image of what was happening in this great fossil record, and the opportunity for science to -- scientists to get together and determine the order in which these photographs are taken is the process of figuring out how evolution and the fossil record has been developed. And so when I get students together, and I show them these pictures side by side next to each other, and they have to toggle back and forth and make arguments about which one they think happened first, and which one they think happened second, this is exactly what scientists are doing when they're discussing what they think is happening with the evidence in the fossil record. So as we get new photos, as we discover new fossils that we need to add to the fossil record, we have a better understanding about the sequence of events that are happening at a particular moment in time, and so when you get new photographs, we can maybe figure out, if we found a picture in between those two, it might help lead us to decide the order in which these particular pictures were taken. So of course, I had to ask myself some questions in looking at these two pictures. Where might I go to get more information about the two that I could find at the library's collections? I went to the Ask a Librarian feature. If you haven't used this before, I highly recommend it. Our librarians are amazing, and they're a wealth of knowledge, but I actually got pushed out to a different site in order to learn a little bit more about the family that lived in this home. This is the Schultz house, and this was in fact the Johnstown Flood, but all six people who lived inside the Schultz house survived this incident with a tree impaling their house. It's an amazing story, and this is the same house, the same picture, but from yet another angle, and actually even a different photographer. And so now when we add this fossil or this picture to our record, it starts to tell us a little bit more about the story, and we can have more conversations using that evidence with students to figure out well, did this picture happen before or after? And what evidence might we spot in this new image that gives us a better understanding about the story in history? Go ahead and go to our last slide here, Peter. So again, this was another example about side-by-side comparisons. We looked at a primary source analysis. We did it twice, and it was the same perspective, maybe just slightly a couple inches or a feet here or there, but we have really the same perspective that we're looking at, but our thinking routine that we were talking through was sequencing. What is the order and what is the evidence that we have that tells us that this is the correct order in which the photos were taken? I think it's a great opportunity to discuss the nature of science, getting students to think critically about seeing small pieces of evidence and information, but it's also a great content connection to earth science and to evolution. I'm going to pass it over to Peter now, who's going to share a couple of other examples of parallel primary sources with you. >> Peter DeCraene: Thanks, Leslie. Before I do that, I was just thinking some other place that we have information about the Johnstown Flood was in Chronicling America, and I don't have a link immediately handy, but that's another way you could use primary sources. The causes of the Johnstown Flood are actually a fairly interesting engineering aspect to talk about as well. And that was a railroad car in the picture, not a tank. Okay, let's go on. So, let's take a look at another set of primary sources. Speaking of Chronicling America, here's an ad from a newspaper, and what I'd like you to do is just take a moment to observe, reflect, and question and go ahead and put your observations in the chat, anything -- things you want to think about, make questions about it, ask about it. What do you see in there? Ann's question, cosmetics containing radium? Oh and thank you, Kathy and Mike, for putting in links to Chronicling America for the Johnstown Flood. The beauty ad is probably radioactive. Thank you, Tara. Dorcas [phonetic] says old beauty print ad, black and white. Let's take a look at some of the text that's in that ad. I know it's a little bit small, so let me zoom in a little bit. Zooming in on something is another way to show some additional detail. Sometimes getting a big picture is way -- a good way to start, but then zooming in on something you want everybody to focus on is a good way to help narrow the focus a little bit from the large picture. So I'll go ahead and leave that there and give you a moment to read that and again, any new observations, reflections, ideas you think this might be about, ideas you might have about how this -- what was going on here? Thank you, Margaret. Very dated ideas of science, in quotes, science in quotes. Matt would like to know more about those doctors. Thank you, Matt. Before they really knew or cared about health standards for products. Thank you, Tara. Dorcas says radium makes me think of the Radium Girls movie. Thank you. I'm wondering what would have happened if I'd only showed you the first two paragraphs of this instead of all four. How -- would that change your perspective? And I feel like you're really understanding this from a modern perspective. Margaret's pointed out actually from a modern perspective, I find this quite horrifying. You've also reviewed several books on Marie Curie. Right. So you're bringing in your own knowledge, the stuff that you bring with you and that's really good. Dan's saying this is an ad presented as a news article. Yeah, and that's still happening, and it's something we need to think about whenever we're looking at primary sources. A question we've got to ask is, where is it coming from? Who's -- who made this or wrote this and why? What's happening here? And that's the other thing. Margaret, I wanted to mention this also. One of the beauty parts about observe, reflect, and question is that any student can get involved in this, regardless of their background, because everybody can notice something. Everybody can ask a question about something. So even if a student is not feeling great about being in their science or their math class, they can still say oh, I see that it says something about radium, and they can bring something of themselves in there. They say I know radium is not a good thing, and then I wonder, why did they put radium into beauty cream? So there's a lot of ways that we can use primary sources to really invite more students in to bring their whole selves into our classroom, especially if a science or math or a STEM classroom is not someplace they feel comfortable automatically. Any other thoughts on this particular ad? I'm going to go back one to just the ad because I find the ad itself, the images on the self pretty compelling. Thank you for the link, Kathy. So we're talking about parallel primary sources. Let's look at a second primary source. Thank you, Leanne. Makes me wonder when we learned that radium was bad. So here's the next primary source. This is just a photograph that also appeared in a newspaper, and I will tell you this is also about radium, and it involves women just like the first one. Any thoughts or questions here? They look skeptical. Thank you, Leanne. So there's not a lot going on in this picture, and usually when you're doing a primary source analysis, you want something more to get into? Oh, I see some people are having some thoughts on this. Cool. Tara says probably workers who made the products or ladies to try new products. Not sure. Thank you, Tara. Kathy's asking what makes you say that? Leanne, yeah, you're saying they look skeptical or annoyed? Why? How do you know that? And that's a really good question to ask. Thank you for reminding us about that, Kathy. Anytime someone, a student or someone, makes a conjecture about an image, why do they say that? What is it about the image in this particular case that makes them look skeptical or annoyed? You want to push that thinking a little bit, one of the math standards is about creating and critiquing arguments, and so when someone makes an argument or makes a statement that could be an implication or an inference as opposed to a fact you want to push their thinking a little bit, and so that's a really good thing to ask about. Dorcas thinks maybe they're dissatisfied customers. Could be. Let's zoom out a little bit to show where this picture came from. Thank you, Leanne. You're looking at their facial expressions and body language. Yeah. Let's zoom out a little bit. This is the article that went with that picture. And I just realized, Leslie, we have some pretty horrific things happening in our webinar today. Let's zoom in a little bit on the captions so you can read that. I'll give you a moment to read the caption. And I've got the banner for the newspaper as well. Tara says their expressions and demeanor now makes sense. Yes. They're definitely not putting their hands to their faces as the woman in the beauty ad was. Someone asked earlier when we found out that radium was bad, and I want you to notice in here the date is pretty visible in this image that I've put up, and it's 1938. The previous one, the ad, was actually from 1918. Yes, it's also on Valentine's Day, right, this one. The earlier one was 20 years prior to that. So there was certainly some information that came out in the 20 years about what was happening, so thank you for that. Does anyone want to think about how you might use this in your STEM classroom? How you might use something like this to show that the difference in -- this particular one in fact, how would you use something about radium poisoning in your class? Ah, Leanne is asking now I want to know what sort of factory in Ottawa, Illinois was producing something with radium. Thank you. Does anyone have a guess about what was being produced in Ottawa? Matt's suggesting watches. How do you know, Matt? What makes you think that? They used to -- they used radium to make the numbers light up in the dark. Yes. Definitely Also they used it in certain makeups for stage plays to make people glow a little bit on stage. Any ideas about how you might use this in your STEM classes? Thank you, Margaret. There was a book about watches and radium a few years ago. They would look the brushes with the radium on them as they painted dials. Yeah. Kathleen is wondering about EPA/FDA oversight and approval. That's a great thing to get into. There's a whole lot of science and research you could get into about those kinds of approvals. Dorcas is suggesting teaching science of radium, the effects over time, putting paintbrushes to your lips, right. Lesley says she'd like to share this with her students during lab safety trainings, that students learn hy it's important not to touch chemicals to their face. Yes. And certainly not taste them. Right. Matt's wondering what sort of justice did these victims get? That's a great question also. And suddenly, we also have an interdisciplinary opportunity here because not only do we have the science and the chemistry behind the radium, but we also can talk about the social studies aspect and what was going on at that point in time. It's interesting that the -- in this article here, the superiors for the one woman said, "You're going to cause talk. Sorry, you'll have to go." So we also have some issues there about labor laws, and I think that's also could be an important connection to make for students as well. Thank you, Leanne. An article from The Atlantic about a Superfund, a century later, the factory that poisoned the radium girls is still a Superfund site. Thank you. Let's go on and talk about this, summarize this a little bit. Thank you, Margaret. She probably wish she had been fired a lot sooner. Thank you. And thank you, all, for maintaining a sense of humor through some of this pretty gruesome -- the articles we found for this webinar. And Tara, thank you. Yes. This always makes me think of lead in paint as well. Right. That's important. And what an arbiter is? Definitely. There's a lot of connections and a lot of ways for students to bring themselves into this and to bring their own experiences into these primary sources. Thank you for that. So again, this is a sequence comparison, showing one primary source and letting that one kind of simmer a little bit for students, so we looked at the beauty one first, and by looking at the large picture of it, we get one view. By zooming in a little bit, we get more detail. And then we sequence and look at the second one that came 20 years later, and it's definitely a change in perspective, and that brings up a lot of discussion about the nature of science, that in 1918, scientists knew that radium got rid of skin cancers. That was something they knew, so they thought oh, this is wonderful for skin. 20 years later, we realize, wait a minute, not so wonderful over the long term. And then there's also the content connections in chemistry and biology. Let's do one more. I want to show you a picture -- some pictures from Alexander Graham Bell's notebook. These are pages are dated from May 6th, 1878, and one of the great things about the Library of Congress is that you've seen a number of things tonight. You've seen some photographs, stereographs, newspaper articles, and now we're looking at a manuscript, and the Library has all of those kinds of things available for us. And Kathy just put in a link about lead paint from the teachers blog. Going to the teachers' page on the Library's website and looking at the blogs there gives lots of ideas about how to use primary sources in your classroom, including STEM classes, and all the different items that you can find like manuscripts and newspapers and pictures. There's videos, all sorts of things to look at. What do you notice about this particular page of the notebook? Anything in particular that you want to say? Let's look at the second page. This is the very next page in the notebook. As you're thinking about how it's going from one page to the next, what are you noticing? Thanks for the additional links, Mike. I appreciate that. Let's go to the very next page in the notebook. So that's three pages in a row. Margaret's wondering if he mentions Adams in 1878? Yes, he does. Dorcas is noticing the order in which he's processing his thoughts or his notes. Maybe let's look at all three pages together. What do you notice? What do you wonder? Tara sees a lot of math. Yup. Thank you. And thank you for the links again, Kathy. Leanne's wondering does that say angle of impact? I believe on that third notebook, it does. It looks like it says angle of impact equals 90 degrees. Thank you, Dorcus. You see the word Adams formulas. Yeah. Direct and tangential. Thank you. Yeah. It does take a little bit of imagination to read some of his handwriting, but certainly, it's doable. I also really appreciate the fact that the very first diagram he's got or the I guess the second one on that first page is completely scratched out, and it says see over, and he redoes it. And that's fantastic. And he makes a couple more notes, and then on the third one, he does a whole another diagram about it, and it looks really well done. Tara says genius is what I think of. They are often messy. Yeah, but don't we want our students to know that also to realize that it's okay to have a mess as you're solving a problem, right? That's the nature of math and science is that our first go at it doesn't always work. It's not the direction we want to do -- we necessarily want to go. Mike, yeah, we want people to show their work, and this is Alexander Graham Bell showing his work, and I really appreciate that every iteration, the diagram gets a little bit better. Before and after impacts an image. Yeah, he adds to them. He has more information. It's interesting. I'll show you the next two pages in the notebook also because it's also interesting. The page right after that has this diagram. Can anybody read what it says at the top? Investigate following cases. Thank you, Leanne. Thank you, Mike. Yeah, that's what it says. And isn't that amazing? That's what we want our students to do in our STEM classes. It's not about finding the right answer. Once you've got an answer or an idea, now you got to ask the next question, and that's what's happening to Alexander Graham Bell right there. Right? We just saw the evolution of a thought, and then now what happens if -- thank you, Leanne, right. So those diagrams, the atoms he's looking at are coming in at slightly different angles, slightly different distances, so I just think that's amazing, and what's really fun is that he adds in another diagram, and he's got some more math that he scratches out. And I didn't add in the page after this, but the page after this is just math scribbled all over it. So seeing that evolution of thought and those questions coming up, I found really, really inspiring, and something I definitely want my students to understand when they're doing math. For some context for this, this is actually his notebook as he's exploring ideas that actually were the precursor to what is now fiber optic cable. He was trying to figure out how to get information from one place to the next. No one mentioned that he actually invented the telephone, which he did. He was talk -- here you see about the wires and how to get the information from one area to the next without a lot of loss of information, so that's what was going on here. And I love the fact that he asks more questions about it. So again, with the sequence comparison, we're seeing an evolution of his thought and evolving perspective as we do the primary source analysis. And again, we get the nature of STEM in here, right? -- that it evolves over time. First tries are not always the best tries. It requires revision. And also, there's a lot of questions that come after that, and so there's a lot of content we can get in this also about physics, engineering, and math. And thank you, for more links in there. Yeah. There is a blog post on mathematical rough drafts, and Alexander Graham Bell's experimental notebooks. So to summarize, today, we've looked at the observe-reflect-question protocol. It's a way for students to engage with primary sources, and connects STEM ideas across the curriculum using observe-reflect-question, and giving students time to really observe and just look at something first, and not ask them to solve something, not ask them a question about it, just let them see and explore what they think about it. What are they reflecting? Why do they think that? And then ask their own questions. Those are really important ways for me as a teacher to really get inside students brains and see what they're thinking and maybe give me some ideas about how to proceed with the lesson, but it's also a way for us to give the students an opportunity to bring themselves into the classroom, and to think about it and say, yes, I am part of this learning process and part of science and math and technology. And then also, parallel primary sources provide multiple perspectives for students to compare contrast and sequence ideas, and to understand the nature of STEM fields. Thank you, Lesley. You like to share examples of real scientists' notebooks with your students so that they can understand why you're asking questions? And thank you very much, Kathy, for the extra link there on getting started using primary sources. Any other thoughts or questions? We've got some time. So thank you for sticking with us today, and for sticking with these students these last few years. I know it hasn't been easy. Lesley mentioned the Ask a Librarian, so you can certainly go to that link to ask questions if you can't find exactly what you're looking for. There's plenty of teacher resources on the teachers' page, including the blog. There's also some primary source sets around STEM topics. There's one about women in STEM. There's one about charts and graphs. I think there's one about natural disasters coming up. There's a number of primary source sets that are already curated that you can take a look at. >> Kathy McGuigan: Thank you all and good luck for the end of the school year. Thank you very much.