>> Pat Jarrett: Hi.
My name is Pat Jarrett.
I'm with the Virginia
Folklife Program.
And I'm here with Reverend
Tarrence Paschall Senior
of the Paschall Brothers
and the Chosen Few
from Portsmouth, Virginia.
The Paschall Brothers were
a Tidewater Gospel quartet
that received the 2012
National Endowment
for the Arts National
Heritage Fellowship.
And they are some of the,
Reverend Paschall
represents some
of the last Tidewater
Quartet singers carrying
on the tradition.
And we think he's
just wonderful.
Reverend Paschall,
how are you today?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: All is well, Brother Pat.
We thank God for
another opportunity.
It's always good to see you.
All is well.
That's not a cliche.
It's good.
All is well.
Thank God.
>> Pat Jarrett: All is well.
Glad to hear.
And actually, you've got
the music lives on shirt.
I can't stop looking at it.
That's the Paschall
Brothers on there, isn't it?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
This shirt, this shirt
is a Father's Day gift
that my daughter surprised me
with this past Father's Day,
talking about she did not
know, she was four years old,
but she found this in
the archives somewhere.
And it's the last
program that we did.
As a matter of fact, it
was at Ferrum College
under the direction of
Riley Moore and Vaughn Well.
That was in late
October, I think, 1998.
And that was when, that was our,
that was my father's
last performance with us.
It's ironic that she
didn't know that,
but that's a blessing there.
And I thought I'd just wear
this shirt to remember,
in memory of my father.
>> Pat Jarrett: Oh,
that's wonderful.
That was the, what, the Blue
Ridge Folklife Festival, right?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
That's right, Ferrum College.
>> Pat Jarrett: They've got,
they have some really
wonderful gospel groups
that come through there.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
Ralph Stanley & The
Clinch Mountain Boys,
they were phenomenal.
>> Pat Jarrett: You
can say that again.
That must have been
interesting performing
with a bluegrass group, huh?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Oh, my goodness,
they were actually,
you know, and, I mean,
they're humble guys,
let us tour the bus.
I mean, this was, you know, it
was really humbling experience.
So much, you know,
that we've experienced
with the folk life,
though, we thank you.
>> Pat Jarrett: Oh,
of course, of course.
Well, thank you for being here.
And we'll get off the
topic of T shirts.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, sir.
>> Pat Jarrett: So, Reverend
Paschall, your father,
he was a prominent
preacher in the area, yeah?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
He was the pastor for, a
pastor for 30 something years,
you know, the Mount Moriah
RZUA Church, and the Mount,
the Union Bethel RZUA
Church for years.
And he was always, you know,
they called him the
singing preacher.
He would do events and
do, promote events.
And he was always on the, on
the circuit, the gospel circuit
in the [inaudible] area.
You know, he was singing
until 1981, you know,
that's where they met us.
He was, he could hold
his own, and people,
you know that old adage,
boy, y'all can sing,
but you ain't nothing
like your daddy.
You know what I mean?
But that's still today, he
was somebody's preacher,
and some kind of singer.
He was a philosopher.
And he was so many things.
But, you know, he was a
very prominent preacher.
There's not too many people that
don't know that name, you know,
and all I have to do
is not mess it up.
>> Pat Jarrett: I feel like,
I feel like that when I work
with you guys, you know, just,
we've just got to not mess
up the basics, and you
guys take care of the rest.
You're so good.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Thank you, Pat.
>> Pat Jarrett: Now, you father
sang solo before he started the
group, is that right?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, he did.
>> Pat Jarrett: What
was that like?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: He would singing
at minister's conference,
solo fests,
and he was invited out to sing.
Because when he preached,
before he preached,
he would always sing a song.
He'd take his techs,
sing a song, and preach.
I never understood
how he could do it.
Preach for 10 or 15
minutes effectively,
and he would be done.
I don't know how he did it.
I can't do it.
I'm not as short
winded as he is.
You know? I can't sing
a song and preach.
I've just got to
use all my preach.
But he was known to sing a song.
He had songs that he made up,
you know, people just loved,
he had a wonderful
voice, you know.
As a matter of fact,
singing with him,
I never really did pay any
attention singing with him,
because I was always
concentrating on my pitch.
But I went to see him
perform a solo at a solo fest,
and I told myself, I said,
my God, daddy can sing.
She said, where have you been?
Because I never paid
attention, you know,
we just concentrate
on our own pitch.
But he was a phenomenal
singer and preacher.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow,
those are, that's,
and you followed your father
in those singing footsteps,
and also in the preaching
footsteps, yes?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Well,
I would say I'm following
in his footsteps.
I don't know how much of
his shoes I'm filling.
I'm honored, you
know what I mean?
I'm honored just to
be in the same name,
in the same content
as my father.
He was a wonderful man.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
Well, I can certainly see, I
mean, he made a big impression
on you, and the legacy
is intact for sure.
So, the Paschall Brothers,
you guys started
singing you said in '81?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: 1981, February of '81,
I came out of the Army,
and I came home from Fort,
I just say Washington, but he
was stationed in Fort Lewis,
Washington, in the Tacoma
area, you know, and I got home,
and they sent them, they
were, it was a song,
an [inaudible] my brother
had, The Persuasions,
that's an a cappella
group as well,
titled the Street Corner
Symphony was a song
of them called The
Lord's Prayer.
And we learnt that
song in about 10 takes.
You know what I mean?
In his bedroom.
And we took it to our father.
And he heard it, and
he got a good ear.
He said, that sound all right.
But the next week, which was
the first Sunday in March, '81,
he took us to a program
that he was having
at his church a deacon
and trustee's anniversary.
And we sung a couple of
selections, one of his songs,
and The Lord's Prayer,
and the rest is history.
From that one take, you know,
I think it was a divine
intervention, I think.
>> Pat Jarrett: So, you
just said you sounded good,
and then a week later
you're performing it, huh?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Yes, that's exactly right.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
I only hear you say
hold that pitch.
If you hold your
pitch, you'll be fine.
>> Pat Jarrett: That's right.
And then from there, you guys,
the Paschall Brothers
performed all over the place.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Yes, we've been to churches
and arenas and all over
the [inaudible] area
of Southeastern Virginia,
Hampton,
Newport News, Western Virginia.
I mean, I don't know, that
was before Google Maps.
I don't know how daddy
found some of them places.
I mean, I mean, love
wooden churches.
You know what I mean?
Storefront churches.
Churches in the woods.
But like I said, my
father always told us,
if you're faithful in little,
God will reward you with more.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow, wow,
I didn't realize you guys were
playing such small churches.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Oh, yes.
We turned down a great venue
because we had a
program at a small venue.
And we were like, daddy,
but they, he said, no,
we already promised them,
you know what I'm saying,
that we would be there.
And this congregation
was about 10 people.
But the other congregation,
you know what I mean,
but he said no, a
promise is a promise.
Maybe they'll rebook us,
you know, we can't go,
we can't be in two places.
But that's how it is.
You've got to be faithful, man.
You know?
>> Pat Jarrett: That's
it, that's it.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: But it paid off.
>> Pat Jarrett: It
certainly did.
You played, you played
the Kennedy Center,
you played the Library of
Congress, I mean, the Chosen,
or the Paschall Brothers,
you recorded a Smithsonian
Folkways album, right?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Yes, the Right Road Now,
you know, we even, we went to
the Lincoln Center as well.
And there was, I don't know
what kind of [inaudible]
that Jon had us, was
like a folk festival,
but it was Bobby Blue
Bland and a whole lot
of other great artists
there, you know,
and that was really humbling.
But good experiences.
Great ones, man.
>> Pat Jarrett: Certainly.
And this is Jon Lohman,
Dr. Jon Lohman.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Yes, I called him Jon,
I called him doctor, you
know, he was a friend of ours,
a true friend, you know,
his mother and father,
just like our mother for me,
I don't want to get too mushy,
you know what I mean, but
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, we
can get a little mushy.
But I get it, I get it.
And you all participated
in an early class
of the Virginia Folklife
Apprenticeship Program.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Which is,
this class that's inducting
this year is the 20th.
Can you believe it's
been 20 years?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: So,
I think we were the first.
>> Pat Jarrett: I think so.
And tell me about
that experience.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Oh, yeah.
You know, it was just
like Jon came to the house
to say it's a program that,
I mean, it's okay, we'll see.
But we went there, we took,
my son, my nephew, a couple,
few of their friends,
we took them up there,
we taught them a cappella.
They could sing, you know,
they're musically inclined,
they could sing, and
we took them up there
as an apprentice group.
And that went off well.
They were called
the Voices of Union.
That was the name of our
church, Union Chapel AME Church.
They were called
the Voices of Union.
Our pastor was proud
of those guys.
And the thing that I
loved about it is this.
Two of them, my son
and my nephew,
they ended up really
filling positions
in the Paschall Brothers.
And they bought something too.
Because we were, they
were musically, I mean,
they were apt, they were tight.
I mean, it got even tighter
when they joined the group.
So, you know, they can tell
you that was a C, obviously,
that wasn't a C. They
said that was a C, daddy.
I'm like, okay.
You know? We're sliding or
whatever, you know, it was more,
it was sensitive, it was tight.
You're seeing the chords
and everything bend.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, and let's
talk about that a little bit,
because the Tidewater Quartet
isn't necessarily four members.
Do I have that right?
Tell me, what involves
the Tidewater Quarter?
And what parts are being sung?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
The quartet is usually
four part harmony.
Even though it could be a
number of guys in the quartet,
there are four parts
that are being played.
A lead and four part harmony.
You know what I'm saying?
There's also called a quintet.
>> Pat Jarrett: And then
I'm guessing that's five
part harmony?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: That's right.
>> Pat Jarrett: Okay.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: That depends on, you know,
we could call it what you
want, because it's eight,
do re mi fa so la ti do.
If you can get all of them
in there, seven really,
because you're really, you know,
but if you can get them all
in there, I mean,
there's no room for error.
But we usually did four
part harmony with daddy.
You know, the lead
background was him.
That's how I feel I sing like
him because when he sung,
that was my pitch, the lead
background vocal for whatever,
my job was easy, whatever
he sung, I'd follow him,
I'd mirror him in the
background, which was easy.
>> Pat Jarrett: And do
you still do that today?
Is that what you sing normally,
or do all the guys
sing all the parts?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: All the parts.
We were taught all parts.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: I was not effective bass.
I could sing it, but
not as good as somebody.
You know what I'm saying?
We were taught every part of the
song, just in case somebody was,
you know, you've
got to be ready too.
>> Pat Jarrett: That's right.
And that bass part,
that's the boom boom boom,
that's the real [inaudible].
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
And sometimes we had a bass
pumping and a bass singing.
>> Pat Jarrett: Tell me the
difference between those.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Well,
the pumping is just
tempo, boom boom boom boom,
boom boom boom boom
boom, boom boom.
But the bass is singing a
pitch, you know, like [singing]
and other guys boom boom
boom boom boom boom boom.
One guy's singing while
the other guy's pumping.
That's just like the drum.
You know?
>> Pat Jarrett: I understand.
Being a bass player,
I understand that.
Half of what I play
is percussion
in a lot of these bands.
And same with singing.
Except you've got to
deal with your voice,
which is just mind
blowing to me.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: That's exactly right.
That's why I say
sometimes it's amazing.
When I, when we used to sing,
my daddy would just [inaudible]
to enhance it, he would
sing morning, or hum it.
>> Pat Jarrett: Now,
what's the difference
between singing it
and humming it?
Give me, break that
down a little bit.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Amazing grace, how sweet.
If somebody's singing
[ Singing ]
Instead of saying [inaudible],
ooh, and you could just paint,
we call it painting, everybody
doing their own thing.
You know? You don't need to
know the words of the song.
You don't know the words
of the song, hum your part.
You'll sound just as good.
It will beautify, call
it beautification,
especially a good tenor,
good, Lord have mercy.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
I love it.
That's great.
I'm terrible with lyrics,
so I could do that.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, so,
the performance you did
is with the Chosen Few.
It's a group of fellows
that you sing with.
Tell me about how you met them.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
I met them about four years ago.
I was home just relaxing.
My wife was out of town.
And a friend of mine just
called me, named James Bill,
they called him General, that
was the name, that's James Bill,
the General [inaudible].
That's his name, James Bill.
And he said, Reverend
Paschall, what you doing?
I said nothing.
He said got a couple
tickets to an awards program.
They were receiving an award
for that particular night.
And he said, I've got
a couple of tickets.
Do you want one?
I said yes [inaudible].
So I got there.
And I just met them
and we talked.
And he was, James was telling
them about me, my group.
And that I was looking for
some singers, you know,
I wanted my brothers, but
they, you know, they were not
in a position to sing.
So, this group, when I met
them, we got together at,
Cornelius's mother, he has a,
pastors a church at his church,
and I asked him if they would
do a, I had a minister solo,
but I had to bring
my mail chorus.
As a matter of fact, I had
just, that was five years ago,
because I had just
gotten to this church,
and I didn't have a male chorus.
They didn't have any music.
So, I asked them to help me.
At Mount Gilead in
Norfolk, Virginia,
they have it every year, not
for the past couple years
because of, you know, the COVID
situation, but they were having,
they're having me again this
year on the 29th of July.
So, they sung with me there,
and they were received.
And they've been invited
back on their own since then.
But I always try to,
you know, like I say,
keep them in my pocket.
We're good friends.
That's how I met them.
We've done some things.
As a matter of fact, a couple
of years ago, was it three,
two or three years ago
at the Folk Festival,
they were [inaudible].
We just last year went to
Reston, Reston Folk Festival.
So, they're a very good
group of guys to know.
>> Pat Jarrett: I mean,
they're amazing singers.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: They are.
>> Pat Jarrett: And
your performance,
I remember that folk festival
performance at Richmond.
And it was, it was unexpected.
I think everybody was
pretty blown away,
because people knew you
with the Paschall Brothers.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: And I think
there was some, you know, well,
it isn't going to be as good
as the Paschall Brothers.
And it's, you know,
it's different.
But certainly it's amazing.
You know?
>> Pat Jarrett: Yes.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: What's, now,
is there a big difference
between playing, between singing
with family and singing
with friends?
What's the, what are
some of the similarities
and differences of that?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Well,
the similarities
are the harmonies.
But the difference is what I
would call the syncopations.
If you know someone,
you know what I mean,
you know where they're going.
My daddy taught us
learn the song first.
Then you can play with it.
You know what I mean?
Just like a drummer, a drummer,
they call it stay in the pocket.
And once you get the basic,
then you can roll and play.
You know what I mean?
But get back, get back, don't
lose your footing out there.
Because if you lose
your footing,
he'll tell you don't
do that again.
Until you learn how to do it.
Step out without hitting anyone,
then coming back,
and that's how.
[ Singing ]
That's just one pitch.
And everybody is painting
and gliding around.
But that's the only difference.
They're not, you know, it's kind
of foreign right now to them.
But it's simple enough,
you know,
just because when you don't
have music, you don't,
we don't have gaps to pass,
your brother didn't have gaps,
because we put a sound when
we, you know what I mean,
opposed to this group,
they, you know,
at least they are
singing by hisself a lot.
>> Pat Jarrett: Understood.
So, the Chosen Few
format, there's,
I notice there's
always a lead singer.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: To
the lead in the song.
And everybody else is kind
of supporting that person.
But with the Paschall
Brothers, you're right,
a lot of times it was, you know,
everybody singing the
same song and filling in.
And you're singing as a group.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Okay.
That's an interesting
difference.
And I certainly see
the merits of both.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: And both are
just amazingly beautiful.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Because I tell them,
you know, I said that's a gap.
It's not a gap.
When the harmony
comes in, it's tight.
But it's easier to go right
into it while you're singing it.
You know? That's, for us, you
know, what those guys are doing,
they're giving me leeway to
say whatever you need to do,
Reverend, you know, just tell
us, and they'll do exactly that.
So, we're looking forward
to doing some great
things together.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah.
Well, are there any
songs I'm sure, you know,
most of these are traditionals.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: And are
there some that you sing
with the Paschall
Brothers and some
that you sing they're the same
as what you sing
with the Chosen Few?
And what are the differences?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: There's one that we sing
with the Chosen Few that
the Paschall Brothers sing,
The Old Rugged Cross.
We just sing it different.
But a pitch is a pitch.
They're singing in a bass.
You know what I mean?
They're singing the lead,
the lead singer is a bass.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah,
James, James Carter, yes?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: James, yes.
And all these singers, it's
sort of like a second tenor,
Sam Cook, we have Renard
Freeman, my wife's brother,
he was like that's why every
now and then, the soul stirrers
that was one of our
favorite groups to copy,
what's that word, there's a
word for it, I don't know,
they use today, it's
not our song,
but we just use their
songs, their songs,
because when we were singing,
no one, no one we sang,
we sung first or last, no
one's going to sing our songs,
because no one was going to mess
with that time that it took.
The reason we learned
it, because our father,
we didn't have a
manager, we had a father.
You know what I'm saying?
>> Pat Jarrett: Oh, man.
That cuts both ways, doesn't it?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, know it.
>> Pat Jarrett: You
can fire a manager.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: I be like, you know,
I mean, you've got to
rehearse this, out to dinner,
get the dishes and let's,
you know what I mean,
you got to eat.
>> Pat Jarrett: You got to eat.
You've got to live with them.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: That's exactly right.
But it was very profitable.
I think everybody needs
see, we didn't have any,
it wasn't like a, what's
the word I want to use,
what do you call when one
person rules, what is that?
Not a dictatorship.
>> Pat Jarrett: I mean,
yeah, I mean, a little bit,
I mean, executive, monarchy.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Monarchy.
>> Pat Jarrett: There it is.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
A monarch is a ruler
that's fair.
A dictator is an unfair.
I think that's, I think,
you know what I mean,
a monarch cares about
his subjects.
You know what I mean?
A dictator doesn't.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah, yeah.
So, and probably playing in
a group with a bunch of guys
that you're not really
[inaudible], it's probably more
of a democracy, where there
are a bunch of voices.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: But with your
father, it's more monarchy.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yeah.
With a blue tie, a blue
suit with a blue tie.
It was going to be at 10:00.
No questions.
Just, no suggestions,
just recommendation.
No recommendations,
just commands,
it's what we're going to do.
Yes, sir.
>> Pat Jarrett: Now, all right,
I love The Old Rugged
Cross in that performance.
I think James did a
great job with it.
But I'm remembering, we've had,
we have an old performance video
of the Paschall Brothers
performing that.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: And I
can hear Renard's voice.
I'm remembering that.
And you're right, it's
just that, it cuts through.
It's a beautiful,
beautiful tenor.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: I can hear that song
in my mind, even as I, you know
what I mean, I mean, the pitch,
I cling to the old rugged cross.
And everybody change it.
You know, I miss those guys.
You know what I mean?
Like I said, that's
why [inaudible].
When you, I'm trying to make
sense, if you cook a good pie,
you've got at least maintain or
increase the taste of that pie.
And that's where my brother
Renard, he, can't find nobody
to fill those voices, man.
You know what I mean?
I think, I think my son and my
nephew and Renard and myself,
if we get one man, and Johnny
Lewis, they don't want to sing.
You know what I mean?
That's, you know.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, you and
I are going to have to scheme
about how to get
them to want to sing.
We'll figure it out
some way shape or form.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: I think we will.
I hope, I hope they see this.
I hope y'all see this.
Because I enjoy singing
with them.
You know? And now I'm enjoying
singing with the Chosen Few.
But, you know, thank God that
they're making the grade.
>> Pat Jarrett: They
certainly are.
What's the history, what is the,
when were the Chosen
Few founded?
What's the history of that band?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Well, [inaudible],
I'll have him explain it.
He said about 12 years ago.
A guy, his brother, and two
more guys got together with him.
And they just started singing.
He said they sung
with other groups.
But they said they didn't
see the reason why we sung
a cappella.
The musicians were
not dependable.
You know? You see
they started off,
what they call street
corner, you know, doowop,
you know, rhythm and blues.
So, but they started
singing gospel.
And they added on a few guys.
You know? And it's
history, you know,
that was about 12 years ago
that they started that group.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
It's interesting.
It's like you're, it's like you
know the questions I'm going
to ask, because, you know,
I was thinking in that area,
in the Newport News, you
know, Virginia Beach, Norfolk,
Hampton area, the quartet
sound was really popular
in the mid 20th century.
I'm thinking about, you
know, Golden Gate Quartet,
the Silver Leaf Quartet, those,
those fellows were
popular not only
with gospel, but in pop music.
You've got that doowop
sound that kind
of comes along with it.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Do you know
if that was gospel
influencing pop music,
or pop music influencing gospel?
Do you know which
one came first?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Well, I could say this.
Gospel music influenced
pop music.
Because gospel was the African
American, you know what I mean,
church, I mean, the church.
And unfortunately, the church
wasn't as, how would I say this
without being offensive,
profitable when it
came to singing.
You know what I mean?
And the thing about
it was people found
out that they could, because
people were singing R&B,
not in the church, but as
members of church, but the R&B,
I don't think people were saying
anything because 10% is good.
You know what I mean?
And I'm not saying that's what
the church but like I said,
no one asked you where
you got your 10% from.
You know what I mean?
And plus, with the name,
now it's more common
that people are attached
to church.
Like I said, I sing gospel.
But Mount Nebo Church.
You know what I mean?
And you can, you know Aretha
Franklin's church was proud
of her.
You know what I'm saying?
And the other members, it's
called The Hailey Singers,
JoJo and K Ci [inaudible]
upbringing church.
There's a lot of groups
that they'll tell you,
even though Kirk Franklin,
he's a gospel singer, every now
and then you heard him
on a secular station.
Him, Yolanda Adams, and
different ones, you know,
BeBe and CeCe Winans, to name
a few, they're serving God.
But like I said,
singing is singing.
You know what I mean?
The gift can be used.
Your gift will make room
for you and cause you
to be before great people.
What you do with the gifts
that those gifts bring
about is totally up to you.
A lot of people share
it with their churches.
A lot of churches were
built on rock and roll.
I hate to say it like that.
Old rhythm and blues.
You know? People don't
forget their roots.
You know? You know,
it's not like, it's not,
I don't think it's
being hypocritical.
I think it's, I would like
to use the term resourceful.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well,
like The Homeless,
you know The Homeless
Brothers, yeah?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, that's
what Windell used to say.
We'll rock them on Saturday
and save them on Sunday.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: That's what I said.
But as long, if you can rock
them on Saturdays and make it
to Sunday, that's the thing.
You see what I'm saying?
That's the gift.
Don't forget, don't
forget, you know, don't.
Home, that's why,
home, no pun intended.
>> Pat Jarrett: Oh,
I like it, I like it.
So, did you grow up here
in these street corner
quartets playing?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: What
was that like?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
I grew up in a place
called [inaudible].
As a matter of fact,
they just honored it.
They were going to
tear that down.
It was a project area
in Norfolk, Virginia.
Right on City Hall Avenue.
It's called St. Paul
Boulevard, downtown Norfolk.
And me and my brothers, we used
to sing, you know, together.
We were in church singing
in the choir [inaudible].
But we used to get on the
street corner, you know,
and get under the tree
[inaudible] what I would call
liquid assistance.
You know what I'm saying?
>> Pat Jarrett: Uh huh, uh huh.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: And we were right too.
You know what I mean?
We were singing Temptations,
we were singing the Spinners,
the Whisperers, the Manhattans,
anything [inaudible],
anything that had harmony.
And people would enjoy it, man.
I mean, we didn't, we were the,
I'm not proud to say it, but,
I mean, you get from a room,
you know, we were at, go to the,
what they call the gong show.
That was a thing.
The nightclubs would
have gong shows,
where we would perform
with $100.
We would go in with
gospel music.
>> Pat Jarrett: Outstanding.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: You know what I mean?
And one time we, my father
always hears about things,
and he says, we come to
rehearsal that Tuesday.
On Sunday night, we won the
gong show, got that $100.
Tuesday, at the rehearsal,
my father said,
how many people in this group?
We said five.
Why? He said, because I
heard y'all at a program.
And I'm like we didn't
have a program.
He said, didn't y'all sing
at the club Casablanca?
Yes, sir, he said.
And did y'all win?
Yes, we did.
He said, how much did you win?
We said $100.
He said, now, if
there's five men
in the group, that's $20 a man.
He said, I would have came.
Y'all didn't tell me.
We didn't tell him because
we knew we had no business
in there.
You know what I'm saying?
>> Pat Jarrett: Oh, man.
You guys were caught.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Somebody told him.
We [inaudible] what
we were thinking.
Everybody knew us because
we were from the area.
We were the locals.
We had fans that
were proud of us.
And [inaudible], you
know, so we all had
to give him $5 apiece,
give him his cut.
But he said, at least you won.
But then he told
me some stories.
But that's the way we came up,
you know, no one, I don't know,
we all have a history.
You know what I'm saying?
But it's not where you came
from, it's where you are,
and where you're heading.
So, it's a lot of history.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well,
I mean, on that note,
where is this heading?
Where is the, where is
the singing style heading?
Where are you heading?
What's the future?
What do you see as the
future of this tradition?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Well, like my shirts say,
the music still lives.
As long as I'm living.
You know what I mean?
And see the guys that I'm
with, some of them are younger,
and there are other
people that would like to,
I'm trying to get a base, like
he did with the apprentices,
about four or five guys, and
show them like we did before.
And to, you know, because
I could share with them,
from this, from this
platform right here, hey,
it is very, very gratifying.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm at an interview,
I'm on an interview
with Virginia Folklife Library.
Come on. You know?
It's worthwhile.
You're helping somebody.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah, yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: You're helping somebody.
Gospel, I think it's, I
think it's going to continue,
because I think there's
still some a cappella singers
out there.
They are just, they have
not been what I would
call discovered.
There's a group in Norfolk
called The Brothers, you know,
they asked me to sing with them.
But they were good too.
But like I said, I don't want
to be where I'm not needed.
You know what I mean?
>> Pat Jarrett: I
understand, yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: You know?
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, and also
especially with a gospel group,
you know, what you
were saying before,
you've got to stay
in your pitch.
What do the guys say
in the Chosen Few?
Don't step on your pitch?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Don't step on your toes.
You know, you stay in your lane.
That's what the young
people say.
You know, if you can get, if you
could squeeze between somebody,
you know what I mean,
but the way we sung,
the Chosen Few sings,
you can get
in between the bass
and the baritone.
But every now and then, that
bass will slide up, slide back.
You know? But someone
would know it
because he don't
stay there long.
You know, like if you heard
somebody sing your pitch,
we're taught, don't
stop singing your pitch.
>> Pat Jarrett: Man, that's
got to take some practice.
I know that, I'm terrible
at singing harmonies.
But it's, to be isolated in
your own, in your own lane,
where you've got six
other pitches going
on at the same time.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: You can hear
where you're not supposed to be.
You know, like I say, if I
push you, you've got to move.
You know what I mean?
It's called, it's a thing
they call invert or modulate,
when one, when we go
up, the second tenor,
take the first tenor, the
first tenor go to falsetto,
the baritone take the
second, and the bass,
do you know what I mean,
where everybody just scoot up.
That's how that goes.
But it's harmony.
That's how me and my
brothers, we knew each other.
Like one time somebody scoot up
and didn't nobody
move with them.
Like they're to say, wait a
minute, we could have done that.
Let us know if you're
going to move.
You know what I mean?
So we can all move together.
Because he didn't like
us trying to stand out.
He would say you're
trying to stand out.
You know what I mean?
>> Pat Jarrett: That's spoken
like a true monarch right there.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Don't stand out.
We're together.
If you go there and come back,
everybody be like,
but what was that?
Because if you know the
song, sometimes it fits,
because you know the song.
And if everybody
at the same time.
And it's like, ooh, there
sometimes they look back.
Oh, but behave back there.
[ Inaudible ]
>> Pat Jarrett: I can definitely
see the influence your father
had on your singing.
And his lessons really,
really do stick with you
for your whole life, don't they?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, it does.
You know, because he's there.
You know, he's physically not.
But there's nothing that you're
a part of that's not in you.
Experiences, I can
hear his voice.
You know? I look in
the mirror, I see him.
You know what I mean?
Because every now and then,
I'll say, my daddy used to say,
when I'm preaching,
my daddy used
to say experiences give
you more to say and do.
You know, I could never miss my
father because he's right here.
And I think if we look at
that, I'm an extension of him.
It's a strange thing.
I don't want to get to, you know
>> Pat Jarrett: We won't, yeah,
we won't get too far into it.
But I can definitely see the
influence in the path you took.
And I can, you know, I never
heard him sing in person.
I think that I've
heard some of it,
because I've heard
the Paschall Brothers,
and I hear you singing.
And if I've heard that, that
means that's a connection.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: That's it.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: You know.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
I'm trying, I'm going through
this list of questions here.
And I've covered, we
covered quite a lot.
Is there something that
you would like to talk
about that we haven't
talked about yet?
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Well, I would like to talk
about the response
to a cappella music.
You know, it's the distinct
form of art, because we've been
in venues where there have been
other artists that use music.
And hear me, these are
some phenomenal musicians.
But when you sing a cappella,
those musicians are
like awestruck.
And to this day, they still
sing, guys that are now 35,
40 years old, remember us
when they were children.
That's the impact.
You know what I'm saying?
And they complement you as
if you're still singing.
You know, that's
what I'm saying.
Something good is lasting.
You know what I mean?
Until you mess it up.
You know? Because people will
remember, if you're doing,
if you've done something that's
noteworthy, it's noteworthy.
You know what I'm saying?
People remember you
by what you did
if you're not doing
anything right now.
You see what I'm saying?
It's like I remember, you
know, but that right there,
you can use that as a copout,
or be encouraged to go on.
That's what I choose to do.
You know what I mean?
The food I ate last week, as
good as it was, it's gone.
>> Pat Jarrett: Right, right.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
And I can't you know
what I mean?
I want to keep eating.
And I want to continue, like
I said, that's why I say,
the music still lives
because I still live.
As long, since the
time you were born,
you were sustained
by food and drink.
Even until now, every day,
you had to eat something
and drink something, every day.
And even I am 62, the music
that was, that sustained me,
it sustains me, you know what I
mean, it, I don't say drive me,
but I don't think, I wish,
because I can't pray,
because it's not
something I want.
You know what I mean?
Everybody's not like me.
But I wish that everybody
had the same drive that I had
when it comes to
singing a cappella.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: You see?
And I think the Chosen
Few have that drive.
But because they rehearse.
If you rehearse,
you're in there.
If you're a musician, you know
exactly what I'm talking about.
>> Pat Jarrett: You've
got to practice.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Practice makes perfect.
It doesn't mean perfection.
It means maturity.
>> Pat Jarrett: So, let me ask
you a nuts and bolts question,
because you brought it up.
How many times, how many days
a week are you guys rehearsing
together to get that
sound so tight?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Well,
they rehearse Mondays
and Fridays.
>> Pat Jarrett: Two days a week.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Two days a week.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well, then,
do they sing on Sunday?
Are they a gospel
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: That's
a lot of practice.
That's fantastic.
I can see why you
guys are so tight.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: And sometimes they sing
on Saturdays and Sundays.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Sometimes they thing
on Fridays, Saturdays,
and Sundays.
>> Pat Jarrett: It's a
lifelong pursuit, isn't it?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Yes, yes.
But it's, you've got
to want to do it.
Because the truth of the matter
is, if you've got to be forced
to do something, this is the
art of choice, not force.
You know? Like the guys were
just excited as I was, you know,
you saw them, you know, they
were singing [inaudible].
Every floor has a ceiling,
if that makes sense.
>> Pat Jarrett: Every
floor has a ceiling.
Yeah, I can see that.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
One man's floor is
another man's ceiling.
>> Pat Jarrett: All
right, yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: You know what I'm saying?
So, we all got something
to aspire to.
You know what I mean?
No matter where you are, you
ain't high as you can be.
>> Pat Jarrett: Well,
and one last thing.
We've got just a
couple minutes left.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Okay.
>> Pat Jarrett: But
there's one more thing.
Because you brought
up instrumentation
and a cappella singing.
And it's, you know, certainly I
spoke to a close friend of mine,
and we talked about, I said
something about gospel music.
And I said, oh, yeah,
gospel bands are great.
I said, well this one, I mean,
there's no drums,
no bass, no guitar.
You think about a gospel group,
and you think about the organ,
you think about the drums,
and you think about that drive
and baseline, I think about
that drive and baseline.
And for gospel singers, I
mean, for singers, you know,
doing completely a cappella
without the instrumentation,
that to me almost
seems like walking
on a tightrope without a net.
There's nothing,
there's no safety net.
You've got to have the pitch.
You've got to have
the harmonies.
And it's the human voice that's
responsible for all that.
And, I don't know, do you
think that the human voice,
that there's something
to that that's different
than playing with instruments?
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
An unsure musician
don't play loud.
You know what I'm saying?
Like my son, he was
practicing with earphones.
But then he said,
daddy, I need an amp.
When you're sure,
you know what I mean,
it's just like once you hear
that oh, that's your pitch.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: You know what I mean?
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: And like if you know,
if you rehearse, your
confidence is in everything.
You know what I mean?
Them basketball players,
football players, your job,
there's a degree of
confidence that's required.
You know, even though
we're rolling and loud,
there is a degree of,
what's the word I want
to use, inherent nervousness.
>> Pat Jarrett: Apprehension.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: There you go.
You know what I mean?
And but we do, you know, when
you're used to doing something,
it's not so much
that you messed up.
It's so much so that you
messed up, and you're so good
that people didn't even notice.
A group will say we
weren't good today.
You know what I mean?
Because they were there.
You know what you can do.
You know what I mean?
Like I tell people all the
time, my father used to say,
don't try to fly a plane
when you know you can't.
Encouraging, when
people encourage you,
you know what I mean,
that shows you, you know,
if you know you weren't worth
those accolades, I'm just,
you know, I could do better.
And they called me bishop.
I'm not a bishop.
But that's something
to aspire to.
You know what I'm saying?
So, I will behave
myself accordingly.
You know what I mean?
Humility is the way up.
We've learnt this, Pat.
People are, boastful
people disappointment.
Humble people impress.
Because Gomer Pyle, Jim
Nabors, I don't know if you've,
you're not expecting
that from him.
>> Pat Jarrett: Correct.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: You know what I'm saying?
But my father said if you
blow your trumpet loud,
make sure it's right.
>> Pat Jarrett: That
is the perfect way
to describe y'all's singing.
You practice it, you get it
right, and then you get in front
of people and you
blow your trumpet,
and you impress [inaudible]
humble.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.:
A man with a Volkswagen won't
impress a man with a Mercedes.
You can't show off
your Volkswagen
to a man that has a Bentley.
Best you can do is keep on
going until you get a Bentley.
And then people will
start paying attention
to your Bentley.
You ain't, you know, stay low.
>> Pat Jarrett: Stay low.
Stay humble.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Stay humble.
You don't say you're humble.
Be humble.
>> Pat Jarrett: That's it.
That's it.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: That's the best way to be.
Because when you're humble,
people aren't expecting
much from you.
And that's how you
impress people.
>> Pat Jarrett: You
know, I've got to say,
you guys must be some of the
most humble people in the world,
because I'm very impressed.
And you all sing beautifully.
And I always, it's always an
honor to hear you in person.
And I missed you
during the pandemic.
I missed seeing live music.
And I'm glad we were able to
connect over the pandemic.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Hopefully we'll connect so.
And the guys told
me to tell you,
please tell Pat and
Katie thank you.
>> Pat Jarrett: Pleasure is
all ours, Reverend Paschall.
Thank you so much.
>> Reverend Tarrence
K. Paschall Sr.: Yes.
>> Pat Jarrett: Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
And also thank you for sharing
your thoughts and stories today.
I feel like this is
a great conversation.
And, you know, I'll have to
come to church down there
in Portsmouth sometime
and see you.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Come on down.
>> Pat Jarrett: All right.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Come on down.
>> Pat Jarrett: Mount Nebo,
right, Mount Nebo Rzua.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Mount Nebo Rzua Church,
2515 High Street, Portsmouth,
Virginia 23707 [inaudible].
>> Pat Jarrett: Wonderful,
wonderful.
Well, Reverend Paschall,
is there anything else
before we sign off today?
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: Well, no,
there's nothing other
than thank you.
I love you.
And thank you for
the opportunity
that you've provided
for this interview.
And we thank God for
all that are involved,
the Library of Congress,
Virginia Folklife, you, Katie,
and whoever else that
is behind the scenes.
Because no tree stands
without roots that's unseen.
>> Pat Jarrett: Wow,
that's beautiful.
Thank you very much.
And thank you to the
American Folklife Center.
And I think that's it for now.
So, have a good day,
Reverend Paschall.
>> Reverend Tarrence K. Paschall
Sr.: Have a wonderful day.
And thank you again
for the opportunity.
>> Pat Jarrett: Thank you.
>> Reverend Tarrence K.
Paschall Sr.: God bless you all.
Bye bye.
>> Pat Jarrett: Bye bye.