>> Lupita Aquino: Well, good afternoon. [Applause] And welcome to the Library of Congress National Book Festival. I am Lupita Aquino. I am your moderator for today, and I have the complete honor of sharing the stage with the author of The Pearl, The Ballad of Perseus Graves, Alex Jennings and Nghi Vo, the author of Siren Queen. Yes, please. [Applause] So we're going to chat a little bit and talk about their books and you guys are going to get to know about their books. Just to let you know for me personally. New Orleans and old Hollywood were reinvented in ways that I couldn't even imagine. I'm talking zombies, magic, queerness, so powerful. So I'm so excited for you all to get to know more about their books. And towards the end, you all will also get to ask questions. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you to the state sponsor, General Motors. And thank you, Alex and Nghi, so much for the honor of getting to chat with you both. >> Alex Jennings: Thank you so much for having us. >> Nghi Vo: It's so much fun. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. So let's just dive right in. You know, people traditionally ask you like, tell me about your books, right? But I want to--I want to ask you to tell me about your books, not without telling me about them, but with telling me and talking to us about the any like cinematic or musical or literary influences that came up while you were writing them. And we can start with Alex. >> Alex Jennings: Okay, well, I know I had a lot of pop culture influences sort of swirling around. I've always taken in pop culture voraciously, and I would also make connections between images, properties and tropes that didn't necessarily directly relate. But, you know, as a kid watching Popeye cartoons and reading Pippi Longstocking books, like In My Mind, I just kind of decided that they were directly related. So that's one of the things that made it into this book. Like, you know, My Peaches is a super strong red bone girl living in Central City, New Orleans, and her absent father, who is away on the high seas, is a character very similar to Popeye. But there's tons of other things thrown in. There's a Conkey from Pee Wee's Playhouse. There's so many comic book references. There's references to things like The Chronicles of Narnia and even The Lord of the Rings, like just all over. >> Lupita Aquino: That's awesome. And how about for money? >> Nghi Vo: One of the places that Siren Queen started out was with the album by Anais Mitchell Hadestown, which became the musical. So that was a huge influence for me. But one of the things that sticks with me as being part of the genesis of Siren Queen was this incident related in a biography of Marilyn Monroe, where a photographer who knew her well was walking with her one day in New York, and it was just a normal day walking with a normal woman. And suddenly Marilyn turns to her with this look on her face and says, Do you want to see me do it? Do you want me to see me become her? And the photographer really didn't know what she was talking about. But then suddenly she turns around and basically with nothing more than a smile and a sort of a change of her stance, she becomes not Marilyn Monroe, the person, but Marilyn Monroe, the movie star. And that's what I've always thought that fame and celebrity was about that kind of magic. And I just heard jammed it into an 80,000 word novel and went from there. [Laugh] >> Lupita Aquino: And in terms of influences for you both, you know, just you mentioned growing up. How did you two get into the fantasy sci fi genre? Were there specific people in your lives that nourished that or did you catch on early on later on? And we can start with Nghi. >> Nghi Vo: So I was about ten years old and I was at this garage sale and I found this really cool book with a robot horse on it. Right. And it was the--The Warlock in Spite of Himself by Christopher Stasha. And it was just the coolest book. And I was too young to read it. I had no idea what any of it was about, but I'm like, Yes, yes, I want to do that. And then one day I ended up going to school with his daughter, kind of coincidentally enough, and she traded me his autograph for my participation in a sort of made for TV movie sort of deal. And so I'm in Christopher Stasha’s living room and I'm too shy to say anything. And he's looking at me and I'm looking at him. And--and finally his daughter, Eleanor, comes in and she's like, Dad, would you like to sign something for Nghi? And he says, Yes, yes, I would. And she's like, Do you have anything for my dad to sign? I'm like, Yes, I do. Please sign this for me. And that was when I realized that, you know, fantasy writing could be a real thing that people did with, like, living rooms and daughters. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. [Laughing] How about you, Alex? >> Alex Jennings: Well, they're kind of a lot of answers to that. I know that when I was very small, my grandmother on my father's side would tell stories to me and my little brother, and the more sleepy she got, like her wig would slip back on her head and the stories would get weirder and weirder. Yeah. And that kind of naturally led to an interest in fantasy. And my father, who is right here in the third row [Applause], used to read The Chronicles of Narnia and the Lord of the Rings to me and my little brother. And one night he was reading and he--you know, there's a lot of black is evil imagery and the Lord of the Rings books. And he put the book down and said, you know, I wish there was a fantasy where everyone was black and the darkest, blackest one is the hero. And so that really stayed with me for the rest of my life. And I read voraciously and this book was kind of born out of that. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah, I was going to ask. So was that the moment that you knew I want to contribute to the canon of fantasy and sci fi, or did you start off as I know some people start off like nonfiction and fiction with fiction. >> Alex Jennings: I mean, I never really thought about myself in terms to the canon and the overall body of work of SF, but I knew that those were the stories that I like to tell. And you know, my father worked for the State Department and so we would spend time overseas a lot. And while we were in Paramaribo Suriname, one of the only places to get English language books was at the Community Liaison Library at the embassy, and they had just this wealth of old back issues of Asimov's and FSF and a lot of paperbacks by different fantasy and science fiction luminaries. And that's where I discovered the work of Octavia Butler. And this is back when they were still whitewashing the characters on the--on the covers of her books and like realizing, you know, in a--in a gradual sort of way that, oh, no, wait, the people in these stories look like me. That was a huge effect. And it kind of pointed me in that direction from them--from then on. >> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful. How about you Nghi? Would you say the same in terms of like deciding like, you know, was it a decision or did you just naturally. >> Nghi Vo: I feel like when it comes to my writing career, I've made very small decisions along the way that led to me sitting here today, I guess. So I've been a full time writer for about 15 years and I started out with ghostwriting and with copywriting, so very much writing to spec, essentially. So my whole career has been like vacuum cleaner parts and cockroach care guides and how to lance the abscess on an alpaca, which was a video that a client sent me. So, you know, at some point you do get very tired of giving yourself bug phobias from looking at too many pictures of cockroach husbandry. And the way that I kind of got into writing science fiction and fantasy is with a bunch of short stories, first of all, because a short story, the damage you can do is very minor. You're in and out in like 2000 words. >> Lupita Aquino: I love that. >> Nghi Vo: Yeah. I know. And then I found this contest that was run by Angry Robot, which was a call for unagent, unagented submissions. And I actually wrote Siren Queen for that. And they send back and said, We don't really want this. I'm like, Oh, okay, I guess I'd better do something else with it then. And sort of it's sort of like a bunch of falling down stairs is what it feels like most. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. No. And I mean, I guess, you know, I think about the way that sci fi and fantasy are seen, right, in terms of like the default is, you know, white authors. And so I just think that it's just so amazing to have you two at the forefront just writing into the canon. So thank you for that. And--and I wanted to just dive into both of your books. So individually they are so powerful. But the experience of reading them together was just mind blowing. You know, I was really, really, really particularly like drawn to the fact that you both write main characters that are vulnerable but also super strong in their own individual ways. And I was wondering if you could just tell us about your main characters a little bit and then anything that you really--your favorite parts about them or things that you struggled with, just love on your main characters. >> Nghi Vo: For me, the main character of Siren Queen is Lily Way, who's a Chinese-American actress who's trying to make her way in Fairyland Hollywood in the 1930s. And I mean, it's a funny thing to talk about vulnerability with Lily because. How vulnerable does a Chinese-American girl get to be in--in the 1930s? Not very. She has to be tough and she doesn't even recognize it as strength. It's just the way she has to get to school that day or the way she has to interact with Hoovers. One of the incidents was it's like, okay, can I get into the library today? And well, at that point, the Los Angeles Library did not allow black people in. And so she has to wait for the library who thinks she's white enough to get in. It's that funny liminal space that a lot of Asian Americans inhabit. And for her, she's--she loves very much. She is brave because she doesn't have a choice. And the important thing is that-- for me is that she wins--she wins everything at the end. I don't mind that being a spoiler. And I was asked at one point, you know, is--is she a hero? Like, what happens if someone comes to her door and asks for her help? And the thing about her is, I think the first thing she would say is, get the hell off my property. And I love that about her. >> Lupita Aquino: How about you, Alex? >> Alex Jennings: So the main character of my novel is Perilous Perry Graves. He's also the title character. He is a shy and bookish 11 year old boy who loves fantasy novels, who loves comic books, cartoons, all of that. And he lives in a world that has a certain degree of magic as its baseline. But he's also a failed magician because he was in training, but his training failed him at a crucial moment. And so he's decided that sorcery is not for him. But he comes to sorcery through a family legacy that he was not previously aware of. And he draws strength from not just his own inner steel, but from the family and the friends who rely on and support him. And I think that the way he discovers his own sorceress power and comes to terms with it and in the end accepts it and accepts what he is called to do, are made possible by the love and the support he receives from his community and his family. >> Nghi Vo: And so really love how just how big Perry is. He's such a little boy, but the impact he makes in the world is huge and his potential is huge, and he just has to get over being so afraid of that. My favorite part about. Reading. >> Lupita Aquino: That, yeah, I was going to ask you both--you both, we were back there talking about how much you two enjoyed each other's novels and devoured them. And so that was going to be my question. Characters that you both loved in each other's novels. >> Nghi Vo: I really like--I really like Peaches. >> Lupita Aquino: This is a fangirl moment for everybody here. >> Nghi Vo: I was completely in love with Peaches. It's like I could see her in my head and just you could see the way she stands and how--how amazing it is, how without fear she is. And that is so fantastic to see. And--and because, you know, I'm a horribly problematic person, I just love the fact that you brought in Stagger Lee. I was telling you about that in the back. And I'm like, Oh, my God, it's a celebrity. >> Alex Jennings: Stagger Lee was--he was really enjoyable to write, but he was sometimes very difficult. There's a passage in the book that describes one of my deuteragonists Casey doing this thing where he would go into his parent's bathroom with the lights off and stare into the mirror until basically a monster face appeared. And that was something that I definitely used to do. >> Nghi Vo: Don’t do that. >> Alex Jennings: Well, I feel like it taught me a lot, and it also made it possible for me to write Stagger Lee. But I also--I drew a lot of inspiration from my family and my loved ones for this story. And so there isn't really a character in the book that I don't love. Like even the villains, even the antagonists. My--my mother, my father and my older sister are sitting here. And Brindy is very much based on stories that I heard about my mother from when she was that age. It took me a few years to realize it, but Perry was very much an imagined version of my father at 11. And Mama Lisa, of course, is sitting right there now. [Laughing] That's my sister Lisa, who taught me to read and write when I was four years old and has been such a great advocate and encouragement to me along the way. >> Lupita Aquino: And how about you Nghi? Would you say there is any influences that you draw from? People in your life for Siren Queen or any of your stories. I know that you've got The Chosen One, too, in a couple of other titles. >> Nghi Vo: Mostly both of these books come from the fact that my family does tell stories, we do it orally, we don't really write things down. And it--one of the things that really struck me is how changeable some of these stories are and how they evolve as you get older. And it's like, okay, you get this version when you're five, you get this version when you're ten. Yeah. And maybe if, you know, if we're all just a little bit tipsy and you're like 25 and you're not looking too closely, then you get that story. You know, there's--there's a whole variety and all of these stories are true, but they're very--they're very sensitive in a lot of ways. And that's part of where how both Lily and Jordan speak comes from, for me. >> Lupita Aquino: So good. And yeah, storytelling is such oral storytelling is so important. And I think the ability to capture it and kind of make it your own on page, the way you to do it is--is fascinating. Honestly, I cannot get enough of the way you guys write. So. >> Nghi Vo: Thank you. >> Lupita Aquino: That's awesome. And so another thing that really stood out to me while reading your books is that you both really write into the duality that exists in power and magic, you know, the good and the evil and how it can change somebody. So I was wondering if you guys could talk to us about that, if it was a conscious you consciously wrote into it or if it just kind of happened as your characters unfolded on their own individual paths. And we can start with you, Alex. >> Alex Jennings: Okay, well. There are a lot of ways that I connect with that idea. One of the things that I've learned over my reading life and my writing life is that magic comes at a cost. And the way I approach sessional tropes in my work is that everything is a metaphor for some facet of the human condition in our lives. And so when you--when you have a dream and you turn that dream into a goal by attaching a plan, one of the things that you often don't consider is how much the progress toward that goal will change who you are. So that by the time you achieve the thing that you wanted to do, you're a completely different version of yourself. And so looking at the way magic and having those energies running through you shapes your character, your outlook on life, and how you move in the world was something that was very important to me to get right. Yeah. >> Lupita Aquino: Wow. And it does come across the page, at least for me. How about you Nghi? >> Nghi Vo: For me, what it boils down to is magic is power just the way that money is power. Privilege is power. And all the power is--is the ability to do what you want to do, to go as far as you want to go, and also to stop people who would stop you. And that's what Lily is trying to get for herself in the Chosen, the Beautiful. It's what Jordan isn't quite understanding that she swims in and that she has limits for it as well. And navigating power, both being seen to obviously have it or just having it at all, is an inordinately political position for marginalized people. And I think that that interplay is so interesting because power is situational, power is localized. I might have a lot of power in one scene and completely lack it in another one. And how is that all one person? How do you contain that all within yourself and still see yourself as whole? And that's just an interesting struggle and an interesting piece to put together. >> Alex Jennings: Yeah, that comes through extremely well in--in Siren Queen. And one of the things that drew me to it was that I feel that blackness is very similar to that in terms of the experience, because it's this thing that was created and sort of cast around the necks of an entire people as a sort of albatross and this othering factor. But at the same time, it's become transmuted into this sort of cultural force, this power to move and change the world. And, you know, in some ways it's under attack. And so I just loved seeing that from a different perspective in your work. >> Nghi Vo: It's basically like they hang weights on us and they get to complain if we swing those weights at their heads. >> Lupita Aquino: And in terms of your characters, that--that we're like battling and struggling with this throughout the--the your novels, like was did you struggle individually writing them? How did you resolve that? Because and I'm just saying because so many of the characters I was struggling with them while--while they were figuring this out. >> Alex Jennings: Boy. I mean, that's a--that's a loaded question. >> Lupita Aquino: I'm so sorry. >> Lupita Aquino: I knew I was going to ask one loaded question at least. >> Alex Jennings: This book pretty much took me ten years to write from the time I first came up with the idea to the time that I actually managed to sell it to a publisher. And originally, you know, I've been in the SF field since 2005 is when I sold my first story and I came up with Ballard as a way of putting together a quick story that I could get out to market without caring about it too much and like, agonizing over it. But over the course of writing it, I honestly hit several different walls. Like, you know, the bottom fell out of the economy. I was without a job for a while. I didn't know how I was going to keep things together. I also had some health issues crop up during that time, and it was. Honestly the greatest struggle of my life. And I think that--that difficulty transformed this story into, like, the most important thing that I had ever done. >> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful. >> Nghi Vo: Okay, let's see. For me, when it comes to my characters navigating in waters that are so very perilous to her, I think what it boils down to is at one point someone calls Lili a feminist icon, and I'm like, that's please, please. That's not entirely right. She is just--she is trying to get by in a world that is very difficult to her. She helps who she can help. She leaves behind a lot more people. And as I was writing it, one of the things that really was kind of weighing on me from time to time as I was trying to make word count around alpacas and cockroaches, was the fact that I'm like, Hun, you could be doing so much more. And the response is inevitably, No, I couldn't. I'm tired. I am scared all the time. And, you know, and one of the things that Lily really helps me accept is the idea that your first responsibility is always to survive. It's you have to do what you have to do, and you can feel bad later. You can feel guilty later, you can start making up for it later. But the first priority is always to get yourself through a situation. And it's a very imperfect place to live in, both for her as a character and for me as a writer. And I'm like, Well, it's published now. I can't do anything about it, so that helps. [Laugh] >> Lupita Aquino: And just diving into a little bit more specifically into Siren Queen, you know, I thought often while reading it, I thought often about and we touched on this too, about how queer people and people of color are often othered when you know they're other, when they're they become the villain, right? Or they become this. That's just the way they Hollywood and movies and film tend to other us. And so, you know, your main character, Lily, just kind of leans into that. And, you know, for a moment I was, like, shocked. And then I was like, wait a minute, this is so liberating, you know? And so I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about the thought process behind that. >> Nghi Vo: Okay. Part of it for me, for Lily, is one of the things that went into writing her, who she is during the time when I was writing her and spending a lot more time with her is, okay, let's, let's break it down. What is a monster? And the idea that came to me is a monster is something that gets to do whatever the hell she wants to do. And that makes you monstrous. If you're--if you are marginalized, if you are a woman, if you are queer, if you're not white, doing what you want to do is seen as monstrous. And if Lily was going to embrace her ambition and if she was going to embrace the dream she wanted, you know, the house and the Palisades, the rules, the world that she wants, she has no choice but to be a monster. And once again, we're back to that brick that if you're going to give me a brick, don't be surprised when I throw it at you, you know? Right, right. And that's. Lily. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. And so in both of your books, like I was--I was so happy that you included trans and queer characters, because I think often in music and historically, they kind of we've kind of been erased. Right. And this real erasure, even though they have existed within the history of music and, you know, cinema. And so I was wondering if that was a conscious choice to include trans and queer characters and center them in your novels. And we can start with. Alex. Yeah. >> Alex Jennings: it was absolutely a conscious choice. When I moved down--down to New Orleans, one of the things that I noticed was the way the queer and trans community operated in the city. I noticed on my first trip down there in 2003, I think it was how, you know, like nobody was really hassling anybody. And that was very important to me. And as I learned more about the city and its music and its history, I learned about the contribution that queer and trans people had made to not just the music that makes New Orleans run, but to music that influenced the entire world. Like, you know, Little Richard was operating in the New Orleans music scene. And then, of course, you have Sissy Bounce, you've got Big Frieda, Cissy Nauby, like all those people. And, you know, I also knew that I had queer and trans people that I cared very deeply for. I'm queer myself, but a lot of the folks closest to me are trans and non-binary in some way. And so it was--it was a natural decision to highlight those folks as well in this story. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. >> Nghi Vo: I think for me it's the fact that I'm like down to like two straight sis friends at this point. Like it's like I just don't know if I'm comfortable writing that perspective in fiction, you know, it's. But, yes, it has. Unfortunately, it has to be a deliberate decision when you're looking at sales and when you're looking at what--is what can be marketed or what someone's going to want to pick up. And once again, I know how profoundly lucky I am to have both the agent and the editor. I do. Diana Fox and Rosie Chen, respectively, because they could look at my stories and they could see, yes, there is merit here. And these stories, if not universal, are big enough to draw in people, even if they don't necessarily share those identities. And for me, part of it is just paying it back to the openly queer people I've known throughout my life and also paying it forward to the readers who are going to come after us, the ones who are looking for themselves, who desperately need to see mirrors of themselves as a way to survive. Like so I wrote this novella called When the Tiger Comes Down the Mountain, and I released like little bits of it here and there. And someone wrote to me and said, Oh my God, I can't believe how important it is and how amazing it was to see my own name, which is a very Vietnamese name. And I'm like, I don't know how to tell you this is a man eating tiger, but just, you know, this is what I got. So things like that mostly. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. And just Alex, I wanted to let you know that I was so obsessed with the way that you wrote New Orleans and you depicted it New Orleans in the novel. It just, you know, it was just so powerful and like the heart of New Orleans music. And I'm specifically thinking for those who haven't read it, basically the songs come alive. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that and tell us about the songs, I guess, without spoilers for anyone that hasn't read it? >> Alex Jennings: Well, you know, New Orleans has been very influential in the--in terms of at least two of the most recent great American art movements. First, jazz, and then it's been very influenced and influential and hip hop and rock and roll as well. And so. Just the way music operates in New Orleans is very different from the way it is anywhere else. There is a high quotient among the population of quote unquote amateur musicians. And like they are--they're amateur not because of their level of ability, but because of the way music and the performance of music is integrated into their lives. Like a lot of people still have day jobs and they consider that they're their main work, but they'll also be in the clubs playing on the weekend or at night. And, you know, I first lived in the French Quarter right next door to a dance club for two years. And just seeing the way I could step outside my house and see a second line or a brass band go down the street and hear people practicing for the parades that we have, not just during Carnival, but all throughout the year. And it's very much woven into the fabric of the New Orleans experience. So if I wanted to write a novel honoring the culture and the people of New Orleans, there was no way to do that without integrating the music as well. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah, and it's so creative. It's so creative. And for both of you, like setting in your book, they feel like main characters that just jump off the page. And I was wondering if you could talk to us about the setting, the choice behind the setting, any research that you all had to put in to really just bring them alive so vividly? We could start with you Nghi. >> Nghi Vo: Oh, sure. When it comes to the way that Ella is portrayed in Siren Queen, one of the first impulses I got when I started to write the book was, you know, we were talking about this backstage about like shows from the 1990s, how white and overtly or covertly racist and homophobic they are. And when I think of the LA that I--that I actually know the one where my cousins and my aunts and uncles live. It's how dare you leave us out. How dare you get us so wrong? So that's one of the places that that LA started out from. I also started looking at property deeds actually, to see who owned what and how many black owned businesses there were in certain--in certain areas of it, which was very enlightening. I started looking up things like ownership, statutes, bus routes, and then I started just making stuff up, which was fantastic. And a lot of where that comes from is being an drama kid. And if you've ever worked on a high school play and then went to the wrap party, there is no time quite like that for big stupid mistakes and awesome times than after high school wrap party. And you just sort of take that feeling and you just expand it and blow it up until you get the Friday night fires in Siren Queen, which is sort of like an enormous backstage party where you might not come back on Monday. So. But from there. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. How about you, Alex? >> Alex Jennings: Well, let's see. I knew that I wanted to set the story in New Orleans because it was sort of based on the stories that I heard when I first moved down the summer after Hurricane Katrina about kids who were forced to return to the city after it opened up without their parents. And of course, I connected that to Pippi Longstocking in my mind. But I would say that there was not a lot of direct research I did saying specifically, I'm going to look this up and see how it fits into the story that I'm writing. But the process of falling in love with my adopted home, with New Orleans and learning everything I could about it, and also being an obsessive music nerd and very much into different forms of pop culture, helped to me develop a sort of infrastructure of thought and consideration in how to interact with the city and integrate myself into its fabric. And so once you do that and once you once you learn to talk to people and listen to them, you start to notice that there's a common phrase, ain't there no more where people are talking about this or that landmark that's been torn down or its passed away for some other reason. So a lot of the dead side of town brought that back and. It just--it kind of took on a life of its own after a while. And I knew that I wanted to honor the city without speaking on it and its experience authoritatively. So I knew that my main setting was going to have to be at a slight remove from the new New Orleans so that I wasn't making any egregious mistakes and positioning myself as an authority on this city that's in sort of a battle for its cultural soul right now with all the gentrification and the erosion of its culture. So I was very conscious of all of that, but I feel like I was able to think about it just enough that I could stop thinking about it and sort of feel my way through it. And that's when it really started to click for me. >> Lupita Aquino: Nghi, I was just curious, was there anything that you just had to unlearn about Hollywood, old Hollywood, that, you know, while writing Siren Queen. >> Nghi Vo: The incident that comes to mind when you when you mentioned that was at some point I have lily actually leave and leave the city for a bit. And then her friend asks her, just asking, which bathroom do you use? Do you use the one for black people or the one for white people? And she's like, I--I don't know. So that was just a whole field of research once again in that kind of liminal space that Asian America often lives in, you know? So it's like, well, let's--let's explicate it. What happened, what was everyone's experience? So and I knew a lot less about that than I thought I did. So that that was the place to start. >> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. So we will be going to audience questions in a little bit. I have one more question. So if you all have questions, I guess line up at the mics and we will do that. But I'm curious about what you guys are currently reading. We're at a book festival. Who are you excited to see? Who did you who were you like? Oh, my God, I have to go. Go see this person. >> Nghi Vo: I really I picked up a copy of Tatiana, your Goliath, that I am so excited for. >> Alex Jennings: I'm very excited for that one myself, honestly. And like no crap, I was so enraptured by siren queen. Siren queen. I was so excited about reading it and meeting you. I think--I think we met at World Con in December. Were you? >> Nghi Vo: Yeah, I was there, I think. >> Alex Jennings: Yeah. Yeah. And. >> Nghi Vo: that's a big blur. >> Alex Jennings: Yeah. I like just getting into that book was like slipping into a hot bath. But I'm also very excited about Touchie’s, Goliath, and basically everything else. It was great to see Leslie. Penelope here we have the same editor. And, you know, we've met a few times and getting into her work is super exciting. And, yeah, those are the-- Those are the main ones. >> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful. That's so awesome. So, again, if anyone has questions, feel free to start lining up. Yeah. No, in terms of I know we were talking about growing up in the eighties and nineties back there and just, you know, the whole idea going back to the whole idea of like sci fi and like fantasy and what was it like for you two growing up and just like as kids, like what were you reading? What were you consuming in terms of like series or anything really? >> Nghi Vo: Cereal boxes, everything I can get my hands on. Basically a bunch of a bunch of really inappropriate things. Valley of the Horses by G Channel. Which was a mistake for a child. >> Alex Jennings: Yeah. >> Lupita Aquino: How about that one? >> Lupita Aquino: How about you? >> Alex Jennings: I read so many different things. I know that one of the first things I read was an issue of Uncanny X-Men when I was four years old, right after my sister taught me to read. And, you know, this was clearly not aimed at my age group, but it's this--it's this issue where Cyclops has married this woman that he thinks is his girlfriend, returned from the dead, but he's trying to force her into using her telekinesis. And it finally happens. And like, I was just in love with it ever since. So I read a lot of Marvel comics especially, but DC as well. I read a lot of Andre Norton. I didn't read a ton of Y.A., but I did read R.L. Stine’s Fear Street books, and I was also very into the Baby-sitters Club. [Laughing] And then >> Lupita Aquino: yeah >> Alex Jennings: I started reading Stephen King way too early. >> Lupita Aquino: I mean, same. So we'll go ahead. We'll start right here. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Okay, I have a question. And a comment. The first one is, is since this is a panel about movies and music, I had a question about sort of working a Across different mediums. I have a couple of projects in mind that deal with aspects of professional wrestling, and I have these memories of reading these novels where there are these really, really detailed descriptions of combat scenes. And I distinctly remember not being able to follow any of it because it's way too overdone. So I was wondering about. Your thoughts about dealing with. Very visual mediums in a prose medium. And then my comment is, is sort of what you were talking about about monsters. I'm a very Neurodivergent person, and. One of the experiences I've had is some of the things that people say to me can be so disrespectful that I land up sometimes flying off the handle in response to it, and some of it can be fairly characterized as self advocacy. And then sometimes I go a little too far and it's an ongoing struggle to, you know, toe the line between of where it's reasonable and where it's going too far. And we've sort of heard these legends about various people, but it's always a struggle to hold myself to what is and isn't fair in terms of chewing people out. But I'm acutely aware that some of the stuff that gets said to me is stuff that would not be said to someone who's not in my situation. Thank you. >> Alex Jennings: I mean, you know, there's a lot of that in life. I come from the never let him see you sweat generation. And so I often police my actions and bearing to a fault. So I almost never immediately react with anger. But I do hold grudges. And so if somebody says something completely off the chain to me, like I'll probably just kind of pass over it lightly. But I'll remember it the next time I see them ten years later. >> Nghi Vo: Flying off the handle isn't a privilege that everyone gets to have. It looks like a lot of fun though. But I will say that for the idea of of writing action scenes, it actually what I do, what I've been experimenting with is I write them backwards. I end--I start with where I want the action scene to end up and then I sort of just work my way backwards. And I think that actually keeps it kind of clear. So that's--that's been that's been interesting for a bit. >> Lupita Aquino: Well, thank you for your question. >> lupita Aquino: How about we go over here? >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: I thank you both so much for being here. I have a question for Alex. Part. One of the things that I loved so much about this book was not only the music but going into the detail of the lyrics that were in there. And I was wondering what that experience was like of switching mediums as you were writing, of going through and like writing the narrative and then shifting and writing--and writing the lyrics because it definitely added to the depth of the book. >> Alex Jennings: That's for sure. Okay. Well, a funny story about that. When I originally wrote the book, I had all like popular songs and like, you know, the New Orleans standards. And I did not know that because of rights issues, I could include basically none of those. And so I think there may be three actual songs included in there, and all three are in the public domain. And the rest I wrote myself and it was very important to me to sort of link them to songs that we have in the real world and sort of nail the feel. And I seem to have pulled it off, surprisingly enough. >> Lupita Aquino: I do want to shout out the audio book. I meant to say this If you folks don't know, the audiobook includes like voice effects and music, and I don't know if you contributed to that. It was stunning. It's such an experience. I've never listened to an audiobook like that before. >> Alex Jennings: Okay, so they sent me audition files for the voice actors and they asked my opinion on them. And I hope that if I had chosen somebody else that they would have chosen Gralen Bryant Banks instead because he was hands down the best. And I can't believe how lucky I got with that. He's extraordinary. >> Lupita Aquino: He's so good. So good. We'll go over here. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. My question is for Nghi, I love your book like I finished reading Siren Queen and like my first thought was like, this was delicious. And it doesn't really make sense unless you read the book and kind of see how you describe things. But it just it was delicious. >> Nghi Vo: So glad youI liked it. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: I loved it. I have many questions, but in order to not spoil for anybody else, I'll focus here on just about how you decided about your naming and not naming of characters, particularly the protagonists who will call Luli. I'm just just I would love to hear more about your decision making there. >> Nghi Vo: I did it accidentally, and now I'm just going to keep on doing it as long as everyone lets me do it. Because we don't know Jordan's original name either. I'm just going to keep rolling with this now. It's a theme so less a decision than. Once again falling down those stairs I mentioned earlier. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thank you. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Siren Queen was one of my favorite books of 2022. Oh, it was great. And I'm very excited to dig into Alex's book. I bought it today and I'm very, very grateful. But my question is like, what has been your favorite book that you have read in the past, like year or two? >> Nghi Vo: Let's see, the past years two. Piranesi was really exciting. I really enjoyed that. Wizards Guide to Defensive Baking Cassandra Cause Breakable Things. And I found this weird pamphlet on the Homeric hymns in my little free library. And that was just that's been a weird trip because I think the translation is kind of messed up, so I'm really digging that. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Yeah. >> Nghi Vo: How about you, Alex? I'm going to go ahead and ask. I need to know because I'm going to write these down and read them later. >> Alex Jennings: Well, let's see. I've been really bouncing around between the old and the new. I have loved Flowers from the Sea by Zin e Rocklin. Fantastic horror. There's a lot of body horror in it. Another book that I love came out. I think it came out on the first like just a couple of days ago and it's called Arc Dust by Alex Smith, like this brilliant, multi-hyphenate, artist, musician, writer out of Philadelphia. It's just this like queer cyberpunk, like bleeding edge fiction. It's a short story collection from Rosario. And like, I mean, everybody needs to read it. It's phenomenal. >> Lupita Aquino: With that endorsement, I'm going to go get a copy. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thanks. None. They're all on my TBR. >> Lupita Aquino: How about right over here? >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. Thank you for being here today. Hearing both of you speak has been very inspirational as a teacher and points that I can talk to my students because I'm always trying to get them to dive into new types of stories. Don't just go after the ones that are the most popular or the ones that take up the most space in our libraries. You know, the--the--the trilogies, the sequencing. But I do always get the question of Miss Wyman. I loved this book, but now what do I do? And so for those students, I am very curious what's coming down the pipeline, because I can turn to them and say, just do wait. Like I went to this event and I heard them speak and soon, you know, X, Y and Z will be coming. They're working on another story and maybe here's a preview. >> Alex Jennings: Well, I'm definitely working on another novel. I've got a couple of stories due out very soon. The Africa Risen Anthology is going to be coming out in November from Tor.com Publishing. I have a story in that and there are a wealth of stories in there, just brilliant and beautiful. Also, Niecy Shaul is editing a follow up volume to New Suns. I have a story in that that'll be out next year and I'm sure there will be things in between as well. >> Nghi Vo: Actually, I'm in that anthology too, so I'm in the same anthology that Alex was just talking about. I have a new Singing Hills novella coming out in October, which is the adventures of a storytelling, non-binary cleric, Monk and their talking bird companion. And I'm going to write those as long as Tor.com lets me. I'm just like--just like they're fun, they're great, and I love writing them. So those will be ongoing as long as I'm allowed to do so. I'm next writing a dark academia book set in Northern Illinois. I have one book that's in edits, which is basically which is basically themed for 100 years of grief and city planning. I have a sequel novella to The Chosen and the Beautiful. I have a novella, novella--novelette coming out from Amazon, I think, in November, which is about a haunted girl school up in Northern Illinois once again, and just reams and reams of fan fiction. But you can't give that to your students. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Yes. No. Yes. Thank you both. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. Thank you guys for speaking today. So as somebody who is very good at reading fantasy and science fiction, but not so good at writing it, I was wondering what advice the both of you might have for things like world building, especially since most of the books that you guys were talking about today are set in places that technically already exist, like Hollywood and New Orleans. But how do you how do you take something like that and still create this beautiful world around a place that a lot of people probably already know or have seen? And then what is your advice for kind of starting world building from scratch? >> Nghi Vo: A rule of cool. If it looks cool, you get to do it. It really is just. I do a lot of things in retrospect. And the thing is, if you're a reader, you already kind of know these rules. You know, kind of what makes a story work. You know, it's like, you know how the car is supposed to run even if you don't know what the engine is yet and just basically go with what you feel or feel what feels right and then just work your way backwards because the rules are there you. And if you need to fix them, you can fix them. But I think you'll find that if you trust yourself, it'll go a lot better than you might be afraid it will. >> Alex Jennings: I would say my biggest piece of advice for world building, like whether you're tweaking an already existing milieu or you're making one up from scratch, is look for the common and look for the ordinary. Like if you are creating a fantastical hidden kingdom, what is life like on a daily basis for a regular citizen who was not born to greatness, who has to make a living, and who has to get through a day? Once you know that, you can extrapolate into what these weighty matters and incidents are going to look like in this world. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thank you so much. >> Lupita Aquino: All righty. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. This is a question for Nghi specifically about the chosen and the beautiful. I wanted to know what made you choose not only to do like a Great Gatsby retelling, like that specific story, but what made you choose Jordan Baker to be the vessel for that? >> Nghi Vo: Working my way backwards, Jordan Baker was the one that I had all the questions about when I first read it as a teenager. If you think about it, Jordan doesn't really make sense. You--if you plot her movements through The Great Gatsby, she is doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes. She's having secret meetings with Gatsby. She's talking with Daisy in conversations the narrator Nick is not privy to. So there's a lot going on in her background, even in the original novel. So she was a good choice. Plus, I had a big crush on her. Let's start there. But in terms of why The Great Gatsby and why I chose to write The Chosen, the Beautiful, all of that blame lies once again with my agent because I got my agent on the basis of writing Siren Queen, which is the first novel I've ever written, even if it came out second. And what happened was I was writing this other book about a girl who's raised by ghost, which sounds doesn't that sounds amazing. I love that idea. And she asked me what I was writing and I said, I told her about that. And she's like, Huh, you got anything else going on? And I basically pitched her The Chosen and the Beautiful, just as it was, as it turned out, like, you know, it's--it's queer Great Gatsby in a magical New York in 1920s. And there's this long pause and I'm like, Cool. I finally said something so stupid, my agent's going to dump me. And then she says to me very patiently, Nghi, I'd like you to stop writing the book you're writing and write this one instead, because The Great Gatsby is coming out of copyright next year, and that was like the best marketing decision ever. So and that's why that happened. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thank you. >> Lupita Aquino: And I guess. >> Nghi Vo: Yeah, go ahead. >> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: This is a question for it's slightly silly, but so like you said at the beginning, like some of your characters are a bit, um, Alex, you said at the beginning that some of your characters are based off like pop culture references and stuff. So like what's your favorite cartoon character that also has like a character based around that? >> Alex Jennings: Oh, man. Well, I mean, the most obvious answer is Pippi Longstocking, but I'd say. Peaches. Dad, Reynold Lavelle is probably my favorite. Like, like I said, he's--he's Popeye basically like a black Louisiana version of Popeye. And I definitely need to get into his adventures at some point. >> Lupita Aquino: And Nghi, how about I mean, would you have an answer for that one? I know it's. >> Nghi Vo: I just know that I read. Okay. I watched a lot of animaniacs when I was a little kid. And you remember slappy squirrel who's like this aging movie star who's all cranky and lives in what, in her tree in Burbank, you know? Yeah. And I'm actually now I'm sitting here, I'm like, oh, no, probably it's probably probably slappy squirrel. Just everywhere in Siren Queen. >> Lupita Aquino: I love it. Thank you so much for your question. So we don't have any more questions. I have one final question, which is just, you know, I was so obsessed with your characters and so in love. And I don't know if they--if the books lend themselves to be sequels, but is that a possibility at all before we end? >> Alex Jennings: Well, I mean, life is full of possibility. [Laughing] >> Lupita Aquino: I love it. >> Alex Jennings: There aren't currently plans for direct sequels, but there are a lot of ways to engage with the world of this novel. Again, for instance, the Delgado School of Spell Craft and and and Sorcery is based on the community college that I used to work at when I was writing this novel, and I definitely want to explore that at some point. >> Lupita Aquino: That's exciting. How about you, Nghi. >> Nghi Vo: Last? As I said, if--if someone shows up needing Lily's helps you really is going to be get off my property. But there's a--there's a prequel I want to do because there's a predecessor to Lily. There is another Chinese-American actress named Sue Tung Lin, who came to Hollywood through vaudeville. And I really would love to tell her story and talk about magical vaudeville because that sounds awesome. >> Alex Jennings: Okay. So Sue Tong Lin is not a real person. She's a creation of yours. >> Nghi Vo: No, she. She is not a real person. She is a creation. But she is actually more heavily based on anime wong technically than Lily is. >> Alex Jennings: Gotcha. Yeah. >> Nghi Vo: Yeah. >> Lupita Aquino: So it's been such a pleasure and thank you all for joining us for this conversation. A quick reminder, our authors will be signing books at 430, so please grab a copy and get your book signed. I'm going to be first in line, obviously. Sorry, but it's truly been wonderful. Thank you so much. And it's been such an honor, Alex, and Nghi thank you so much for writing. >> Alex Jennings: Well, thank you so much for having us. [Applause] And thank you, audience members for showing up. I seem to have messed up my microphone. >> Nghi Vo: It's been--it's been tons of fun. Thank you for having us.