>> Lupita Aquino: Well, good 
afternoon. [Applause]
And welcome to the Library of
Congress National Book Festival.
I am Lupita Aquino.
I am your moderator for today,
and I have the complete honor of
sharing the stage with the
author of The Pearl, The Ballad
of Perseus Graves, Alex
Jennings and Nghi Vo, the author
of Siren Queen.
Yes, please.
[Applause]
So we're going to chat a little
bit and talk about their books
and you guys are going to get
to know about their books.
Just to let you know for me
personally.
New Orleans and old Hollywood
were reinvented in ways that I
couldn't even imagine.
I'm talking zombies, magic,
queerness, so powerful.
So I'm so excited for you all
to get to know more about their
books. And towards the end, you
all will also get to ask
questions. So thank you so much
for being here.
Thank you to the state sponsor,
General Motors.
And thank you, Alex and Nghi, so
much for the honor of getting to
chat with you both.
>> Alex Jennings: Thank you so much for 
having us.
>> Nghi Vo: It's so much fun.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. So let's just
dive right in.
You know, people traditionally
ask you like, tell me about your
books, right?
But I want to--I want to ask you
to tell me about your books, not
without telling me about them,
but with telling me and talking
to us about the any like
cinematic or musical or literary
influences that came up while
you were writing them.
And we can start with Alex.
>> Alex Jennings: Okay, well, I know I 
had a lot of pop culture influences
sort of swirling around.
I've always taken in pop
culture voraciously, and I would
also make connections between
images, properties and tropes
that didn't necessarily
directly relate.
But, you know, as a kid
watching Popeye cartoons and
reading Pippi Longstocking
books, like In My Mind, I just
kind of decided that they were
directly related.
So that's one of the things 
that made it into this
book. Like, you know, My
Peaches is a super strong red
bone girl living in Central
City, New Orleans, and her
absent father, who is away on the
high seas, is a character very
similar to Popeye.
But there's tons of other
things thrown in.
There's a Conkey from Pee Wee's
Playhouse.
There's so many comic book
references.
There's references to things
like The Chronicles of Narnia
and even The Lord of the Rings,
like just all over.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's awesome. And 
how about for money?
>> Nghi Vo: One of the places that Siren
Queen started out was with the
album by Anais Mitchell
Hadestown, which became the
musical. So that was a huge
influence for me.
But one of the things that
sticks with me as being part of
the genesis of Siren Queen was
this incident related in a
biography of Marilyn Monroe,
where a photographer who knew
her well was walking with her
one day in New York, and it was
just a normal day walking with
a normal woman.
And suddenly Marilyn turns to
her with this look on her face
and says, Do you want to see me
do it?
Do you want me to see me become
her?
And the photographer really
didn't know what she was talking
about. But then suddenly she
turns around and basically with
nothing more than a smile and a
sort of a change of her stance,
she becomes not Marilyn Monroe,
the person, but Marilyn Monroe,
the movie star.
And that's what I've always
thought that fame and celebrity
was about that kind of magic.
And I just heard jammed it into
an 80,000 word novel and went
from there.
[Laugh]
>> Lupita Aquino: And in terms of 
influences for you both, you know,
just you mentioned growing up.
How did you two get into the
fantasy sci fi genre?
Were there specific people in
your lives that nourished that
or did you catch on early on
later on?
And we can start with Nghi.
>> Nghi Vo: So I was about ten years old 
and I was at this garage sale and I
found this really cool book
with a robot horse on it.
Right. And it was the--The
Warlock in Spite of Himself by
Christopher Stasha. And it was
just the coolest book.
And I was too young to read it.
I had no idea what any of it
was about, but I'm like, Yes,
yes, I want to do that.
And then one day I ended up
going to school with his
daughter, kind of coincidentally 
enough, and she
traded me his autograph for my
participation in a sort of made
for TV movie sort of deal.
And so I'm in Christopher
Stasha’s living room and I'm too
shy to say anything. And he's
looking at me and I'm looking at
him. And--and finally his
daughter, Eleanor, comes in and
she's like, Dad, would you like
to sign something for Nghi?
And he says, Yes, yes, I would.
And she's like, Do you have
anything for my dad to sign?
I'm like, Yes, I do. Please
sign this for me.
And that was when I realized
that, you know, fantasy writing
could be a real thing that
people did with, like, living
rooms and daughters.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah.
[Laughing]
How about you, Alex?
>> Alex Jennings: Well, they're kind 
of a lot of answers to that.
I know that when I was very
small, my grandmother on my
father's side would tell
stories to me and my little
brother, and the more sleepy
she got, like her wig would slip
back on her head and the
stories would get weirder and
weirder. Yeah.
And that kind of naturally led
to an interest in fantasy.
And my father, who is right here in the 
third row [Applause], used to
read The Chronicles of Narnia
and the Lord of the Rings to me
and my little brother.
And one night he was reading
and he--you know, there's a lot
of black is evil imagery and
the Lord of the Rings books.
And he put the book down and
said, you know, I wish there was
a fantasy where everyone was
black and the darkest, blackest
one is the hero.
And so that really stayed with
me for the rest of my life.
And I read voraciously and this
book was kind of born out of
that.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah, I was going to 
ask.
So was that the moment that you
knew I want to contribute to the
canon of fantasy and sci fi, or
did you start off as I know some
people start off like
nonfiction and fiction with
fiction.
>> Alex Jennings: I mean, I never 
really thought about myself in terms
to the canon and the overall body of
work of SF, but I knew that
those were the stories that I
like to tell.
And you know, my father worked
for the State Department and so
we would spend time overseas a
lot.
And while we were in Paramaribo
Suriname, one of the only places
to get English language books
was at the Community Liaison
Library at the embassy, and
they had just this wealth of old
back issues of Asimov's and FSF
and a lot of paperbacks by
different fantasy and science
fiction luminaries.
And that's where I discovered
the work of Octavia Butler.
And this is back when they
were still whitewashing the
characters on the--on the covers
of her books and like realizing,
you know, in a--in a gradual
sort of way that, oh, no, wait,
the people in these stories
look like me.
That was a huge effect.
And it kind of pointed me in
that direction from them--from
then on.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful. 
How about you Nghi?
Would you say the same in terms
of like deciding like, you know,
was it a decision or did you
just naturally.
>> Nghi Vo: I feel like when it comes to 
my writing career, I've made very
small decisions along the way
that led to me sitting here
today, I guess. So I've been a
full time writer for about 15
years and I started out with
ghostwriting and with
copywriting, so very much
writing to spec, essentially.
So my whole career has been
like vacuum cleaner parts and
cockroach care guides and how
to lance the abscess on an
alpaca, which was a video that
a client sent me.
So, you know, at some point you
do get very tired of giving
yourself bug phobias from
looking at too many pictures of
cockroach husbandry.
And the way that I kind of got
into writing science fiction and
fantasy is with a bunch of
short stories, first of all,
because a short story, the
damage you can do is very minor.
You're in and out in like 2000
words.
>> Lupita Aquino: I love that.
>> Nghi Vo: Yeah. I know. And then I 
found this contest that was run by
Angry Robot, which was a call for  
unagent, unagented submissions.
And I actually wrote Siren
Queen for that.
And they send back and said, We
don't really want this.
I'm like, Oh, okay, I guess I'd
better do something else with it
then. And sort of it's sort of
like a bunch of falling down
stairs is what it feels like
most.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. No. And I mean, I 
guess, you know, I think about the way
that sci fi and fantasy are
seen, right, in terms of like
the default is, you know, white
authors.
And so I just think that it's
just so amazing to have you two
at the forefront just writing
into the canon.
So thank you for that.
And--and I wanted to just dive
into both of your books.
So individually they are so
powerful.
But the experience of reading
them together was just mind
blowing. You know, I was
really, really, really
particularly like drawn to the
fact that you both write main
characters that are vulnerable
but also super strong in their
own individual ways.
And I was wondering if you
could just tell us about your
main characters a little bit
and then anything that you
really--your favorite parts
about them or things that you
struggled with, just love on
your main characters.
>> Nghi Vo: For me, the main character 
of Siren Queen is Lily Way, who's a
Chinese-American actress who's
trying to make her way in
Fairyland Hollywood in the
1930s. And I mean, it's a funny
thing to talk about
vulnerability with Lily because.
How vulnerable does a
Chinese-American girl get to be
in--in the 1930s?
Not very.
She has to be tough and she
doesn't even recognize it as
strength. It's just the way she
has to get to school that day or
the way she has to interact
with Hoovers.
One of the incidents was it's
like, okay, can I get into the
library today?
And well, at that point, the
Los Angeles Library did not
allow black people in.
And so she has to wait for the
library who thinks she's white
enough to get in. It's that
funny liminal space that a lot
of Asian Americans inhabit.
And for her, she's--she loves
very much.
She is brave because she
doesn't have a choice.
And the important thing is that--
for me is that she wins--she wins
everything at the end. I don't
mind that being a spoiler.
And I was asked at one point,
you know, is--is she a hero?
Like, what happens if someone
comes to her door and asks for
her help? And the thing about
her is, I think the first thing
she would say is, get the hell
off my property.
And I love that about her.
>> Lupita Aquino: How about you, Alex?
>> Alex Jennings: So the main character 
of my novel is Perilous Perry Graves.
He's also the title character.
He is a shy and bookish 11 year
old boy who loves fantasy
novels, who loves comic books,
cartoons, all of that.
And he lives in a world that
has a certain degree of magic as
its baseline.
But he's also a failed magician
because he was in training, but
his training failed him at a
crucial moment.
And so he's decided that
sorcery is not for him.
But he comes to sorcery through
a family legacy that he was not
previously aware of.
And he draws strength from not
just his own inner steel, but
from the family and the friends
who rely on and support him.
And I think that the way he
discovers his own sorceress
power and comes to terms with
it and in the end accepts it and
accepts what he is called to
do, are made possible by the
love and the support he
receives from his community and
his family.
>> Nghi Vo: And so really love how just 
how big Perry is.
He's such a little boy, but the
impact he makes in the world is
huge and his potential is huge,
and he just has to get over
being so afraid of that.
My favorite part about.
Reading.
>> Lupita Aquino: That, yeah, I was 
going to ask you both--you both, we
were back there talking about how much
you two enjoyed each other's
novels and devoured them.
And so that was going to be my
question.
Characters that you both loved
in each other's novels.
>> Nghi Vo: I really like--I really 
like Peaches.
>> Lupita Aquino: This is a fangirl 
moment for everybody here.
>> Nghi Vo: I was completely in love 
with Peaches.
It's like I could see her in my
head and just you could see the
way she stands and how--how
amazing it is, how without fear
she is. And that is so
fantastic to see.
And--and because, you know, I'm
a horribly problematic person, I
just love the fact that you
brought in Stagger Lee.
I was telling you about that in
the back.
And I'm like, Oh, my God, it's
a celebrity.
>> Alex Jennings: Stagger Lee was--he 
was really enjoyable to write, but he
was sometimes very difficult.
There's a passage in the book
that describes one of my
deuteragonists Casey doing this 
thing where he would go into his
parent's bathroom with the
lights off and stare into the
mirror until basically a
monster face appeared.
And that was something that I
definitely used to do.
>> Nghi Vo: Don’t do that.
>> Alex Jennings: Well, I feel like it 
taught me a lot, and it also made it
possible for me to write
Stagger Lee.
But I also--I drew a lot of
inspiration from my family and
my loved ones for this story.
And so there isn't really a
character in the book that I
don't love. Like even the
villains, even the antagonists.
My--my mother, my father and my
older sister are sitting here.
And Brindy is very much based
on stories that I heard about my
mother from when she was that
age.
It took me a few years to
realize it, but Perry was very
much an imagined version of my
father at 11.
And Mama Lisa, of course, is
sitting right there now. [Laughing]
That's my sister Lisa, who
taught me to read and write when
I was four years old and has
been such a great advocate and
encouragement to me along the
way.
>> Lupita Aquino: And how about you 
Nghi? Would you say there is any
influences that you draw from?
People in your life for Siren
Queen or any of your
stories. I know that you've got
The Chosen One, too, in a couple
of other titles.
>> Nghi Vo: Mostly both of these books 
come from the fact that my family
does tell stories, we do it
orally, we don't really write
things down. And it--one of the
things that really struck me is
how changeable some of these
stories are and how they evolve
as you get older. And it's
like, okay, you get this version
when you're five, you get this
version when you're ten.
Yeah. And maybe if, you know,
if we're all just a little bit
tipsy and you're like 25 and
you're not looking too closely,
then you get that story.
You know, there's--there's a
whole variety and all of these
stories are true, but they're
very--they're very sensitive in a
lot of ways. And that's part of
where how both Lily and Jordan
speak comes from, for me.
>> Lupita Aquino: So good. And yeah, 
storytelling is such oral storytelling is so
important. And I think the
ability to capture it and kind
of make it your own on page,
the way you to do it is--is
fascinating. Honestly, I cannot
get enough of the way you guys
write. So.
>> Nghi Vo: Thank you.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's awesome. And 
so another thing that really stood out to
me while reading your books is
that you both really write into
the duality that exists in
power and magic, you know, the
good and the evil and how it
can change somebody.
So I was wondering if you guys
could talk to us about that, if
it was a conscious you
consciously wrote into it or if
it just kind of happened as
your characters unfolded on
their own individual paths.
And we can start with you,
Alex.
>> Alex Jennings: Okay, well.
There are a lot of ways that I
connect with that idea.
One of the things that I've
learned over my reading life and
my writing life is that magic
comes at a cost.
And the way I approach
sessional tropes in my work is
that everything is a metaphor
for some facet of the human
condition in our lives.
And so when you--when you have a
dream and you turn that dream
into a goal by attaching a
plan, one of the things that you
often don't consider is how
much the progress toward that
goal will change who you are.
So that by the time you achieve
the thing that you wanted to do,
you're a completely different
version of yourself.
And so looking at the way magic
and having those energies
running through you shapes your
character, your outlook on life,
and how you move in the world
was something that was very
important to me to get right.
Yeah.
>> Lupita Aquino: Wow. And it does come 
across the page, at least for me.
How about you Nghi?
>> Nghi Vo: For me, what it boils down 
to is magic is power just the way that
money is power. Privilege is
power.
And all the power is--is the
ability to do what you want to
do, to go as far as you want to
go, and also to stop people who
would stop you. And that's what
Lily is trying to get for
herself in the Chosen, the
Beautiful.
It's what Jordan isn't quite
understanding that she swims in
and that she has limits for it
as well.
And navigating power, both
being seen to obviously have it
or just having it at all, is an
inordinately political position
for marginalized people.
And I think that that interplay
is so interesting because power
is situational, power is
localized.
I might have a lot of power in
one scene and completely lack it
in another one. And how is that
all one person?
How do you contain that all
within yourself and still see
yourself as whole? And that's
just an interesting struggle and
an interesting piece to put
together.
>> Alex Jennings: Yeah, that comes 
through extremely well in--in Siren
Queen. And one of the things
that drew me to it was that I
feel that blackness is very
similar to that in terms of the
experience, because it's this
thing that was created and sort
of cast around the necks of an
entire people as a sort of
albatross and this othering
factor.
But at the same time, it's
become transmuted into this sort
of cultural force, this power
to move and change the world.
And, you know, in some ways
it's under attack.
And so I just loved seeing that
from a different perspective in
your work.
>> Nghi Vo: It's basically like they 
hang weights on us and they get to
complain if we swing those
weights at their heads.
>> Lupita Aquino: And in terms of your 
characters, that--that we're like battling
and struggling with this
throughout the--the your novels,
like was did you struggle
individually writing them?
How did you resolve that?
Because and I'm just saying
because so many of the
characters I was struggling
with them while--while they were
figuring this out.
>> Alex Jennings: Boy. I mean, that's 
a--that's a loaded question.
>> Lupita Aquino: I'm so sorry.
>> Lupita Aquino: I knew I was going to  
ask one loaded question at least.
>> Alex Jennings: This book pretty 
much took me ten years to write from the
time I first came up with the idea
to the time that I actually
managed to sell it to a
publisher.
And originally, you know, I've
been in the SF field since 2005
is when I sold my first story
and I came up with Ballard as a
way of putting together a quick
story that I could get out to
market without caring about it
too much and like, agonizing
over it. But over the course of
writing it, I honestly hit
several different walls.
Like, you know, the bottom fell
out of the economy.
I was without a job for a
while.
I didn't know how I was going
to keep things together.
I also had some health issues
crop up during that time, and it
was. Honestly the greatest
struggle of my life.
And I think that--that
difficulty transformed this
story into, like, the most
important thing that I had ever
done.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful.
>> Nghi Vo: Okay, let's see. For me, 
when it comes to my characters
navigating in waters that are
so very perilous to her, I think
what it boils down to is at one
point someone calls Lili a
feminist icon, and I'm like,
that's please, please.
That's not entirely right.
She is just--she is trying to
get by in a world that is very
difficult to her. She helps who
she can help.
She leaves behind a lot more
people.
And as I was writing it, one of
the things that really was kind
of weighing on me from time to
time as I was trying to make
word count around alpacas and
cockroaches, was the fact that
I'm like, Hun, you could be
doing so much more.
And the response is inevitably,
No, I couldn't.
I'm tired. I am scared all the
time.
And, you know, and one of the
things that Lily really helps me
accept is the idea that your
first responsibility is always
to survive. It's you have to do
what you have to do, and you can
feel bad later. You can feel
guilty later, you can start
making up for it later. But the
first priority is always to get
yourself through a situation.
And it's a very imperfect place
to live in, both for her as a
character and for me as a
writer.
And I'm like, Well, it's
published now.
I can't do anything about it,
so that helps. [Laugh]
>> Lupita Aquino: And just diving into 
a little bit more specifically into Siren
Queen, you know, I thought
often while reading it, I
thought often about and we
touched on this too, about how
queer people and people of
color are often othered when you
know they're other, when
they're they become the villain,
right? Or they become this.
That's just the way they
Hollywood and movies and film
tend to other us.
And so, you know, your main
character, Lily, just kind of
leans into that.
And, you know, for a moment I
was, like, shocked.
And then I was like, wait a
minute, this is so liberating,
you know? And so I was
wondering if you could talk to
us a little bit about the
thought process behind that.
>> Nghi Vo: Okay. Part of it for me, for
Lily, is one of the things that
went into writing her, who she
is during the time when I was
writing her and spending a lot
more time with her is, okay,
let's, let's break it down.
What is a monster?
And the idea that came to me is
a monster is something that gets
to do whatever the hell she
wants to do.
And that makes you monstrous.
If you're--if you are
marginalized, if you are a
woman, if you are queer, if
you're not white, doing what you
want to do is seen as
monstrous.
And if Lily was going to
embrace her ambition and if she
was going to embrace the dream
she wanted, you know, the house
and the Palisades, the rules,
the world that she wants, she
has no choice but to be a
monster. And once again, we're
back to that brick that if
you're going to give me a brick,
don't be surprised when I throw
it at you, you know?
Right, right. And that's. Lily.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah.
And so in both of your books,
like I was--I was so happy that
you included trans and queer
characters, because I think
often in music and
historically, they kind of we've
kind of been erased. Right.
And this real erasure, even
though they have existed within
the history of music and, you
know, cinema.
And so I was wondering if that
was a conscious choice to
include trans and queer
characters and center them in
your novels. And we can start
with. Alex. Yeah.
>> Alex Jennings: it was absolutely a
conscious choice.
When I moved down--down to New
Orleans, one of the things that
I noticed was the way the queer
and trans community operated in
the city. I noticed on my first
trip down there in 2003, I think
it was how, you know, like
nobody was really hassling
anybody. And that was very
important to me.
And as I learned more about the
city and its music and its
history, I learned about the
contribution that queer and
trans people had made to not
just the music that makes New
Orleans run, but to music that
influenced the entire world.
Like, you know, Little Richard
was operating in the New Orleans
music scene.
And then, of course, you have
Sissy Bounce, you've got Big
Frieda, Cissy Nauby, like all
those people.
And, you know, I also knew that
I had queer and trans people
that I cared very deeply for.
I'm queer myself, but a lot of
the folks closest to me are
trans and non-binary in some
way.
And so it was--it was a natural
decision to highlight those
folks as well in this story.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah.
>> Nghi Vo: I think for me it's the fact
that I'm like down to like two
straight sis friends at this point.
Like it's like I just don't
know if I'm comfortable writing
that perspective in fiction,
you know, it's.
But, yes, it has.
Unfortunately, it has to be a
deliberate decision when you're
looking at sales and when
you're looking at what--is what
can be marketed or what
someone's going to want to pick
up. And once again, I know how
profoundly lucky I am to have
both the agent and the editor.
I do. Diana Fox and Rosie Chen,
respectively, because they could
look at my stories and they
could see, yes, there is merit
here. And these stories, if not
universal, are big enough to
draw in people, even if they
don't necessarily share those
identities. And for me, part of
it is just paying it back to the
openly queer people I've known
throughout my life and also
paying it forward to the
readers who are going to come
after us, the ones who are
looking for themselves, who
desperately need to see mirrors
of themselves as a way to
survive. Like so I wrote this
novella called When the Tiger
Comes Down the Mountain, and I
released like little bits of it
here and there. And someone
wrote to me and said, Oh my God,
I can't believe how important
it is and how amazing it was to
see my own name, which is a
very Vietnamese name.
And I'm like, I don't know how
to tell you this is a man eating
tiger, but just, you know, this
is what I got.
So things like that mostly.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. And just Alex, 
I wanted to let you know that I was so
obsessed with the way that you
wrote New Orleans and you
depicted it New Orleans in the
novel.
It just, you know, it was just
so powerful and like the heart
of New Orleans music.
And I'm specifically thinking
for those who haven't read it,
basically the songs come alive.
And I was wondering if you
could tell us a little bit about
that and tell us about the
songs, I guess, without spoilers
for anyone that hasn't read it?
>> Alex Jennings: Well, you know, New 
Orleans has been very influential in
the--in terms of at least two of the
most recent great American art
movements. First, jazz, and
then it's been very influenced
and influential and hip hop and
rock and roll as well.
And so.
Just the way music operates in
New Orleans is very different
from the way it is anywhere
else.
There is a high quotient among
the population of quote unquote
amateur musicians.
And like they are--they're
amateur not because of their
level of ability, but because
of the way music and the
performance of music is
integrated into their lives.
Like a lot of people still have
day jobs and they consider that
they're their main work, but
they'll also be in the clubs
playing on the weekend or at
night.
And, you know, I first lived in
the French Quarter right next
door to a dance club for two
years.
And just seeing the way I could
step outside my house and see a
second line or a brass band go
down the street and hear people
practicing for the parades that
we have, not just during
Carnival, but all throughout
the year.
And it's very much woven into
the fabric of the New Orleans
experience. So if I wanted to
write a novel honoring the
culture and the people of New
Orleans, there was no way to do
that without integrating the
music as well.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah, and it's so
creative.
It's so creative.
And for both of you, like
setting in your book, they feel
like main characters that just
jump off the page.
And I was wondering if you
could talk to us about the
setting, the choice behind the
setting, any research that you
all had to put in to really
just bring them alive so
vividly? We could start with
you Nghi.
>> Nghi Vo: Oh, sure.
When it comes to the way that
Ella is portrayed in Siren
Queen, one of the first
impulses I got when I started to
write the book was, you know,
we were talking about this
backstage about like shows from
the 1990s, how white and overtly
or covertly racist and
homophobic they are.
And when I think of the LA that
I--that I actually know the one
where my cousins and my aunts
and uncles live.
It's how dare you leave us out.
How dare you get us so wrong?
So that's one of the places
that that LA started out from.
I also started looking at
property deeds actually, to see
who owned what and how many
black owned businesses there
were in certain--in certain
areas of it, which was very
enlightening. I started looking
up things like ownership,
statutes, bus routes, and then
I started just making stuff up,
which was fantastic.
And a lot of where that comes
from is being an drama kid.
And if you've ever worked on a
high school play and then went
to the wrap party, there is no
time quite like that for big
stupid mistakes and awesome
times than after high school
wrap party. And you just sort
of take that feeling and you
just expand it and blow it up
until you get the Friday night
fires in Siren Queen, which is
sort of like an enormous
backstage party where you might
not come back on Monday.
So. But from there.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. How about you, 
Alex?
>> Alex Jennings: Well, let's see.
I knew that I wanted to set the
story in New Orleans because it
was sort of based on the
stories that I heard when I
first moved down the summer
after Hurricane Katrina about
kids who were forced to return
to the city after it opened up
without their parents.
And of course, I connected that
to Pippi Longstocking in my
mind. But I would say that
there was not a lot of direct
research I did saying
specifically, I'm going to look
this up and see how it fits
into the story that I'm writing.
But the process of falling in
love with my adopted home, with
New Orleans and learning
everything I could about it, and
also being an obsessive music
nerd and very much into
different forms of pop culture,
helped to me develop a sort of
infrastructure of thought and
consideration in how to interact
with the city and integrate
myself into its fabric.
And so once you do that and
once you once you learn to talk
to people and listen to them,
you start to notice that there's
a common phrase, ain't there no
more where people are talking
about this or that landmark
that's been torn down or its
passed away for some other
reason.
So a lot of the dead side of
town brought that back and.
It just--it kind of took on a
life of its own after a while.
And I knew that I wanted to
honor the city without speaking
on it and its experience
authoritatively.
So I knew that my main setting
was going to have to be at a
slight remove from the new New
Orleans so that I wasn't making
any egregious mistakes and
positioning myself as an
authority on this city that's
in sort of a battle for its
cultural soul right now with
all the gentrification and the
erosion of its culture.
So I was very conscious of all
of that, but I feel like I was
able to think about it just
enough that I could stop
thinking about it and sort of
feel my way through it.
And that's when it really
started to click for me.
>> Lupita Aquino: Nghi, I was just 
curious, was there anything that you
just had to unlearn about Hollywood, 
old Hollywood, that, you know, while
writing Siren Queen.
>> Nghi Vo: The incident that comes to 
mind when you when you mentioned that
was at some point I have lily
actually leave and leave the
city for a bit.
And then her friend asks her,
just asking, which bathroom do
you use? Do you use the one for
black people or the one for
white people? And she's like,
I--I don't know.
So that was just a whole field
of research once again in that
kind of liminal space that
Asian America often lives in,
you know? So it's like, well,
let's--let's explicate it.
What happened, what was
everyone's experience?
So and I knew a lot less about
that than I thought I did.
So that that was the place to
start.
>> Lupita Aquino: Yeah. So we will be 
going to audience questions in a little
bit. I have one more question.
So if you all have questions, I
guess line up at the mics and we
will do that.
But I'm curious about what you
guys are currently reading.
We're at a book festival.
Who are you excited to see?
Who did you who were you like?
Oh, my God, I have to go.
Go see this person.
>> Nghi Vo: I really I picked up a copy of
Tatiana, your Goliath, that I am
so excited for.
>> Alex Jennings: I'm very excited for 
that one myself, honestly.
And like no crap, I was so
enraptured by siren queen.
Siren queen. I was so excited
about reading it and meeting
you. I think--I think we met at World 
Con in December. Were you?
>> Nghi Vo: Yeah, I was there, I
think.
>> Alex Jennings: Yeah. Yeah. And.
>> Nghi Vo: that's a big blur.
>> Alex Jennings: Yeah. I like just 
getting into that book was like
slipping into a hot bath.
But I'm also very excited about
Touchie’s, Goliath, and basically
everything else.
It was great to see Leslie.
Penelope here we have the same
editor.
And, you know, we've met a few
times and getting into her work
is super exciting.
And, yeah, those are the--
Those are the main ones.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's wonderful.
That's so awesome.
So, again, if anyone has
questions, feel free to start
lining up. Yeah.
No, in terms of I know we were
talking about growing up in the
eighties and nineties back
there and just, you know, the
whole idea going back to the
whole idea of like sci fi and
like fantasy and what was it
like for you two growing up and
just like as kids, like what
were you reading?
What were you consuming in
terms of like series or anything
really?
>> Nghi Vo: Cereal boxes, everything 
I can get my hands on.
Basically a bunch of a bunch of
really inappropriate things.
Valley of the Horses by G
Channel.
Which was a mistake for a
child.
>> Alex Jennings: Yeah.
>> Lupita Aquino: How about that one?
>> Lupita Aquino: How about you?
>> Alex Jennings: I read so many 
different things.
I know that one of the first
things I read was an issue of
Uncanny X-Men when I was four
years old, right after my sister
taught me to read.
And, you know, this was clearly
not aimed at my age group, but
it's this--it's this issue where
Cyclops has married this woman
that he thinks is his
girlfriend, returned from the
dead, but he's trying to force
her into using her telekinesis.
And it finally happens.
And like, I was just in love
with it ever since.
So I read a lot of Marvel
comics especially, but DC as
well. I read a lot of Andre
Norton.
I didn't read a ton of Y.A., but
I did read R.L. Stine’s Fear Street
books, and I was also very into the
Baby-sitters Club.
[Laughing]
And then
>> Lupita Aquino: yeah
>> Alex Jennings:  I started reading 
Stephen King way too early.
>> Lupita Aquino: I mean, same.
So we'll go ahead.
We'll start right here.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Okay, I have a question.
And a comment. The first one is,
is since this is a panel about
movies and music, I had a
question about sort of working
a Across different mediums.
I have a couple of projects in
mind that deal with aspects of
professional wrestling, and I
have these memories of reading
these novels where there are
these really, really detailed
descriptions of combat scenes.
And I distinctly remember not
being able to follow any of it
because it's way too overdone.
So I was wondering about.
Your thoughts about dealing
with.
Very visual mediums in a prose
medium.
And then my comment is, is sort
of what you were talking about
about monsters.
I'm a very
Neurodivergent person, and.
One of the experiences I've had
is some of the things that
people say to me can be so
disrespectful that I land up
sometimes flying off the handle
in response to it, and some of
it can be fairly characterized
as self advocacy.
And then sometimes I go a
little too far and it's an
ongoing struggle to, you know,
toe the line between of where
it's reasonable and where it's
going too far.
And we've sort of heard these
legends about various people,
but it's always a struggle to
hold myself to what is and isn't
fair in terms of chewing people
out.
But I'm acutely aware that some
of the stuff that gets said to
me is stuff that would not be
said to someone who's not in my
situation. Thank you.
>> Alex Jennings: I mean, you know, 
there's a lot of that in life.
I come from the never let him
see you sweat generation.
And so I often police my
actions and bearing to a fault.
So I almost never immediately
react with anger.
But I do hold grudges.
And so if somebody says
something completely off the
chain to me, like I'll probably
just kind of pass over it
lightly. But I'll remember it
the next time I see them ten
years later.
>> Nghi Vo: Flying off the handle isn't 
a privilege that everyone gets to
have. It looks like a lot of
fun though.
But I will say that for the
idea of of writing action
scenes, it actually what I do,
what I've been experimenting
with is I write them backwards.
I end--I start with where I want
the action scene to end up and
then I sort of just work my way
backwards.
And I think that actually keeps
it kind of clear.
So that's--that's been that's
been interesting for a bit.
>> Lupita Aquino: Well, thank you for 
your question.
>> lupita Aquino: How about we go over 
here?
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: I thank you both 
so much for being here.
I have a question for Alex.
Part. One of the things that I
loved so much about this book
was not only the music but
going into the detail of the
lyrics that were in there.
And I was wondering what that
experience was like of switching
mediums as you were writing, of
going through and like writing
the narrative and then shifting
and writing--and writing the
lyrics because it definitely
added to the depth of the book.
>> Alex Jennings: That's for sure. 
Okay.
Well, a funny story about that.
When I originally wrote the
book, I had all like popular
songs and like, you know, the
New Orleans standards.
And I did not know that because
of rights issues, I could
include basically none of
those.
And so I think there may be
three actual songs included in
there, and all three are in the
public domain.
And the rest I wrote myself and
it was very important to me to
sort of link them to songs that
we have in the real world and
sort of nail the feel.
And I seem to have pulled it
off, surprisingly enough.
>> Lupita Aquino: I do want to shout out 
the audio book.
I meant to say this If you
folks don't know, the audiobook
includes like voice effects and
music, and I don't know if you
contributed to that.
It was stunning.
It's such an experience. I've
never listened to an audiobook
like that before.
>> Alex Jennings: Okay, so they sent me 
audition files for the voice actors and
they asked my opinion on them.
And I hope that if I had chosen
somebody else that they would
have chosen Gralen Bryant Banks
instead because he was hands
down the best.
And I can't believe how lucky I
got with that.
He's extraordinary.
>> Lupita Aquino: He's so good. 
So good.
We'll go over here.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. My question 
is for Nghi, I love your book like I finished
reading Siren Queen and like my
first thought was like, this was
delicious. And it doesn't
really make sense unless you
read the book and kind of see
how you describe things.
But it just it was delicious.
>> Nghi Vo: So glad youI liked it.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: I loved it. I 
have many questions, but in order to not
spoil for anybody else, I'll
focus here on just about how you
decided about your naming and
not naming of characters,
particularly the protagonists
who will call Luli.
I'm just just I would love to
hear more about your decision
making there.
>> Nghi Vo: I did it accidentally, and 
now I'm just going to keep on doing
it as long as everyone lets me
do it.
Because we don't know Jordan's
original name either.
I'm just going to keep rolling
with this now.
It's a theme so less a decision
than.
Once again falling down those
stairs I mentioned earlier.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thank you.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Siren Queen was 
one of my favorite books of 2022.
Oh, it was great. And I'm very
excited to dig into Alex's book.
I bought it today and I'm very,
very grateful.
But my question is like, what
has been your favorite book that
you have read in the past, like
year or two?
>> Nghi Vo: Let's see, the past years 
two.
Piranesi was really exciting.
I really enjoyed that.
Wizards Guide to Defensive
Baking Cassandra Cause Breakable
Things. And I found this weird
pamphlet on the Homeric hymns in
my little free library.
And that was just that's been a
weird trip because I think the
translation is kind of messed
up, so I'm really digging that.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Yeah.
>> Nghi Vo: How about you, Alex? I'm 
going to go ahead and ask.
I need to know because I'm
going to write these down and
read them later.
>> Alex Jennings: Well, let's see. I've 
been really bouncing around between
the old and the new.
I have loved Flowers from the
Sea by Zin e Rocklin.
Fantastic horror.
There's a lot of body horror in
it.
Another book that I love came
out.
I think it came out on the
first like just a couple of days
ago and it's called Arc Dust by
Alex Smith, like this brilliant,
multi-hyphenate, artist,
musician, writer out of
Philadelphia. It's just this
like queer cyberpunk, like
bleeding edge fiction.
It's a short story collection
from Rosario.
And like, I mean, everybody
needs to read it.
It's phenomenal.
>> Lupita Aquino: With that 
endorsement, I'm going to go get a copy.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thanks. None. 
They're all on my TBR.
>> Lupita Aquino: How about right 
over here?
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. Thank you for 
being here today.
Hearing both of you speak has
been very inspirational as a
teacher and points that I can
talk to my students because I'm
always trying to get them to
dive into new types of stories.
Don't just go after the ones
that are the most popular or the
ones that take up the most
space in our libraries.
You know, the--the--the
trilogies, the sequencing.
But I do always get the
question of Miss Wyman.
I loved this book, but now what
do I do?
And so for those students, I am
very curious what's coming down
the pipeline, because I can
turn to them and say, just do
wait. Like I went to this event
and I heard them speak and soon,
you know, X, Y and Z will be
coming.
They're working on another
story and maybe here's a
preview.
>> Alex Jennings: Well, I'm 
definitely working on another novel.
I've got a couple of stories
due out very soon.
The Africa Risen Anthology is
going to be coming out in
November from Tor.com
Publishing.
I have a story in that and
there are a wealth of stories in
there, just brilliant and
beautiful.
Also, Niecy Shaul is editing a
follow up volume to New Suns.
I have a story in that that'll
be out next year and I'm sure
there will be things in between
as well.
>> Nghi Vo: Actually, I'm in that 
anthology too, so I'm in the same
anthology that Alex was just
talking about.
I have a new Singing Hills
novella coming out in October,
which is the adventures of a
storytelling, non-binary cleric,
Monk and their talking bird
companion.
And I'm going to write those as
long as Tor.com lets me.
I'm just like--just like they're
fun, they're great, and I love
writing them. So those will be
ongoing as long as I'm allowed
to do so. I'm next writing a
dark academia book set in
Northern Illinois.
I have one book that's in
edits, which is basically which
is basically themed for 100
years of grief and city
planning. I have a sequel
novella to The Chosen and the
Beautiful. I have a novella,
novella--novelette coming out
from Amazon, I think, in
November, which is about a
haunted girl school up in
Northern Illinois once again,
and just reams and reams of fan
fiction.
But you can't give that to your
students.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Yes. No. Yes.
Thank you both.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. Thank you 
guys for speaking today.
So as somebody who is very good
at reading fantasy and science
fiction, but not so good at
writing it, I was wondering what
advice the both of you might
have for things like world
building, especially since most
of the books that you guys were
talking about today are set in
places that technically already
exist, like Hollywood and New
Orleans.
But how do you how do you take
something like that and still
create this beautiful world
around a place that a lot of
people probably already know or
have seen?
And then what is your advice
for kind of starting world
building from scratch?
>> Nghi Vo: A rule of cool.
If it looks cool, you get to do
it.
It really is just.
I do a lot of things in
retrospect.
And the thing is, if you're a
reader, you already kind of know
these rules. You know, kind of
what makes a story work.
You know, it's like, you know
how the car is supposed to run
even if you don't know what the
engine is yet and just basically
go with what you feel or feel
what feels right and then just
work your way backwards because
the rules are there you.
And if you need to fix them,
you can fix them.
But I think you'll find that if
you trust yourself, it'll go a
lot better than you might be
afraid it will.
>> Alex Jennings: I would say my 
biggest piece of advice for world
building, like whether you're 
tweaking an already existing milieu
or you're making one up from
scratch, is look for the common
and look for the ordinary.
Like if you are creating a
fantastical hidden kingdom, what
is life like on a daily basis
for a regular citizen who was
not born to greatness, who has
to make a living, and who has to
get through a day?
Once you know that, you can
extrapolate into what these
weighty matters and incidents
are going to look like in this
world.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Thank you so much.
>> Lupita Aquino: All righty.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Hi. This is a 
question for Nghi specifically about
the chosen and the beautiful. I wanted to
know what made you choose not
only to do like a Great Gatsby
retelling, like that specific
story, but what made you choose
Jordan Baker to be the vessel
for that?
>> Nghi Vo: Working my way backwards, 
Jordan Baker was the one that I had all
the questions about when I
first read it as a teenager.
If you think about it, Jordan
doesn't really make sense.
You--if you plot her movements
through The Great Gatsby, she is
doing a lot of stuff behind the
scenes.
She's having secret meetings
with Gatsby.
She's talking with Daisy in
conversations the narrator Nick
is not privy to.
So there's a lot going on in
her background, even in the
original novel. So she was a
good choice.
Plus, I had a big crush on her.
Let's start there. But in terms
of why The Great Gatsby and why
I chose to write The Chosen,
the Beautiful, all of that blame
lies once again with my agent
because I got my agent on the
basis of writing Siren Queen,
which is the first novel I've
ever written, even if it came
out second.
And what happened was I was
writing this other book about a
girl who's raised by ghost,
which sounds doesn't that sounds
amazing. I love that idea.
And she asked me what I was
writing and I said, I told her
about that. And she's like,
Huh, you got anything else going
on? And I basically pitched her
The Chosen and the Beautiful,
just as it was, as it turned
out, like, you know, it's--it's
queer Great Gatsby in a magical
New York in 1920s.
And there's this long pause and
I'm like, Cool.
I finally said something so
stupid, my agent's going to dump
me. And then she says to me
very patiently, Nghi, I'd like you to
stop writing the book you're
writing and write this one
instead, because The Great
Gatsby is coming out of
copyright next year, and that
was like the best marketing
decision ever. So and that's
why that happened.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: Thank you.
>> Lupita Aquino: And I guess.
>> Nghi Vo: Yeah, go ahead.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: This is a 
question for it's slightly silly, but
so like you said at the beginning, like
some of your characters are a
bit, um, Alex, you said at the
beginning that some of your
characters are based off like
pop culture references and
stuff. So like what's your
favorite cartoon character that
also has like a character based
around that?
>> Alex Jennings: Oh, man. Well, I 
mean, the most obvious answer is
Pippi Longstocking, but I'd say.
Peaches. Dad, Reynold Lavelle
is probably my favorite.
Like, like I said, he's--he's
Popeye basically like a black
Louisiana version of Popeye.
And I definitely need to get
into his adventures at some
point.
>> Lupita Aquino: And Nghi, how about 
I mean, would you have an answer for
that one? I know it's.
>> Nghi Vo: I just know that I read. 
Okay.
I watched a lot of animaniacs
when I was a little kid.
And you remember slappy
squirrel who's like this aging
movie star who's all cranky and
lives in what, in her tree in
Burbank, you know?
Yeah. And I'm actually now I'm
sitting here, I'm like, oh, no,
probably it's probably probably
slappy squirrel.
Just everywhere in Siren Queen.
>> Lupita Aquino: I love it. Thank you 
so much for your question.
So we don't have any more
questions.
I have one final question,
which is just, you know, I was
so obsessed with your
characters and so in love.
And I don't know if they--if the
books lend themselves to be
sequels, but is that a
possibility at all before we
end?
>> Alex Jennings: Well, I mean, life 
is full of possibility. [Laughing]
>> Lupita Aquino: I love it.
>> Alex Jennings: There 
aren't currently plans for direct
sequels, but there are a lot of
ways to engage with the world of
this novel. Again, for
instance, the Delgado School of
Spell Craft and and and Sorcery
is based on the community
college that I used to work at
when I was writing this novel,
and I definitely want to
explore that at some point.
>> Lupita Aquino: That's exciting. 
How about you, Nghi.
>> Nghi Vo: Last? As I said, if--if 
someone shows up needing Lily's
helps you really is going to be get off
my property.
But there's a--there's a prequel
I want to do because there's a
predecessor to Lily.
There is another
Chinese-American actress named
Sue Tung Lin, who came to
Hollywood through vaudeville.
And I really would love to tell
her story and talk about magical
vaudeville because that sounds
awesome.
>> Alex Jennings: Okay. So Sue Tong Lin 
is not a real person.
She's a creation of yours.
>> Nghi Vo: No, she. She is not a real
person.
She is a creation. But she is
actually more heavily based on
anime wong technically than
Lily is.
>> Alex Jennings: Gotcha. Yeah.
>> Nghi Vo:  Yeah.
>> Lupita Aquino: So it's been such a 
pleasure and thank you all for joining
us for this conversation.
A quick reminder, our authors
will be signing books at 430, so
please grab a copy and get your
book signed.
I'm going to be first in line,
obviously.
Sorry, but it's truly been
wonderful.
Thank you so much.
And it's been such an honor,
Alex, and Nghi thank you so much for
writing.
>> Alex Jennings: Well, thank you so 
much for having us. [Applause]
And thank you, audience members
for showing up.
I seem to have messed up my
microphone.
>> Nghi Vo: It's been--it's been tons 
of fun.
Thank you for having us.