>> Megan Halsband: Thank you for joining us, everyone. It sounds like you can hear me. My name is Megan Halsband. I'm a reference librarian at the Library of Congress. And today I'm joined by Nisi Shawl and Jamar Nicholas to talk about their two recent books and kind of just nerd out. So I thought we'd get started for those of you to do a little bit of an introduction and then and talk about yourselves a little bit and your process and then about the books. Does that work? >> Nisi Shawl: Sure, whatever you say. >> Megan Halsband: Okay. >> Nisi Shawl: Yeah, so my name is Nisi Shawl and Nisi is short for Denise. If you have trouble remembering, just remember nis, nisi in a minute. And I wrote "Speculation". It's like my second novel to get published. And it took six years. I thought it only took two but then I looked back and realized I'd been writing about it six years ago. Okay, and it's about these -- well, we'll get to that, yeah. >> Jamar Nicholas: Hi, everyone. My name is Jamar Nicholas. I am a Philadelphian. Don't hold that against me. And I am a cartoonist and this space that I'm in now, they call me an author illustrator. That means that I write and draw all of my stories. And when I was very young, even younger than these guys down here, I wanted to be a cartoonist. And I'm very fortunate to be in a space where I can do that for the rest of my life. So thanks for having me. >> Megan Halsband: I did not. I'm learning stuff new, which is amazing that you knew that you wanted to be a cartoonist from the get go. How many of you all have read either of the books that we're here to talk about today? No, some, okay. Well, if you haven't read it, either of them, you're going to want to read them after we're done. Who wants to go first to talk about -- you said -- Nisi, you said that this is six years in the making. >> Nisi Shawl: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was doing other things at the same time, but yeah. So "Speculation" is about these two African American girls in 1962. Their mom is sick. They go to spend Memorial Day weekend with their grandparents, and the little one sits on the big one's glasses and breaks them. Yeah, and like so the weekend is supposedly ruined, but then her grandfather says, Hold on a second. You can wear your great aunt's glasses. So the big one wears the great aunt's glasses and sees ghosts through them. And the ghosts want her to help them figure out a mystery. >> Megan Halsband: We should have added a spoiler alert there. >> Nisi Shawl: Well, that's all in the first chapter. >> Megan Halsband: It's true. Jamar. >> Jamar Nicholas: I don't know if I could top that. That sounds amazing. [laughter] So this book we have here, "Leon The Extraordinary", is the first in a series at Scholastic under the graphics imprint. And it's about a boy in the fifth grade who lives in a world where almost everybody has superpowers but there are some kids that don't. And the worst thing in this world to be is ordinary. And what does a kid do when he doesn't have powers and wants to do good? So he uses his common sense as a superpower. That's very rare. [laughter] >> Megan Halsband: Yes. And actually, I really appreciated that because common sense is a wonderful thing and skill to have. >> Jamar Nicholas: I'm still working on it myself. >> Megan Halsband: Same, same. So Nisi, how did you start off writing? Jamal said that he knew he wanted to be a cartoonist >> Nisi Shawl: When he was little So when I was -- when I was little, I knew I wanted to be a magician, which this is as close as I get being a writer. Yeah, because you get to create new worlds and new people and make them do amazing things. So, yeah, same thing. And how did I get started writing this? So I had read a bunch of books when I was smaller, kids books by -- I don't know if anybody here has read anything by Edward Eager and I wanted to do that. I wanted to make the world open up for people the way those books did for me. But the thing with the kids in the Edward Eager books, they're all white. And I thought, well you could get a little closer to what I was like if they were not white. So and then there's all this stuff I was trying to do with like, bring my ancestors, my family back to life and yeah. That's all in there, but it's fun also. my family back to life and yeah. That's all in there, but it's fun also. >> Megan Halsband: The one of the things that I really enjoyed about both of your books was that you could imagine yourself there. And I read the Edward Eager books as well. And Edgar, sorry -- when I was younger except I could not remember the author's name when you actually told me. But once you reminded me, I remembered. But that there's just this little bit of something extra where you could imagine a world where you could see ghosts through your great aunt's glasses or something that you did every day was really a superpower. And I think that I really enjoyed reading them because it --I'm not being very articulate today, I'm sorry. >> Nisi Shawl: Just imagine that, John Jennings is -- >> Megan Halsband: I know, [laughter] that will make me more verklempt. I could see myself in it. And that is something that I always really enjoy when I read books is if I can see myself, then I really get into whatever it is that I'm reading in that world building. And so I'm usually the kind of person who likes to know, like some of the behind the scenes. So when you're writing and when you're drawing and creating a book, do you have your own space that you use? Do you have a certain pencil that you like to use or music that you like to listen to? Do either of these books have a playlist? >> Jamar Nicholas: Yeah, I can start. I have a studio where I spend a lot of time in a chair. And what's really, I think, important, especially for young people to know about doing something like this for a living, is that there are points where it isn't fun. Like it's work and it's a really fantastic thing to do. So there's points where I can't always just have like this really great playlist going, you know? So you kind of live inside of the work. There are some really great things that I like to have around me, like my poodle. I have a standard poodle named Cosmo. Yeah, I tried to bring him, but they wouldn't let him on the train. And just kind of -- the work in front of me is always really exciting. And being in a space where you can be creative Is really, really important. So I love my studio and I love just being able to sit down and do the thing. >> Megan Halsband: Yeah, sometimes, some people can have a space, some people can be creative anywhere. And it kind of you learn as you go. You can learn as you get older where that space is and how to make that happen. >> Nisi Shawl: Oh, and you can expect it to change. >> Jamar Nicholas: Yes. >> Megan Halsband: Oh yeah. >> Nisi Shawl: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't have a studio, I just have a desk and I, but I also have an altar. I do West African traditional religion. So I always, I go to my altar and I say, help me to write. Help me to do this. Help me to do it well and afterwards I'll give you some honey. And what else do I do? I have playlists, yeah. I have like Pandora stations and stuff. I have different food that I eat when I'm writing certain things. Right, YouTube? >> Jamar Nicholas: Yes. yeah, yeah. So to that, I think in the process, there's different kind of vibes you're going for. Like when I'm writing, I can't have anything around me playing because I just need to hear the type, type, script scripts, script, script, script. But when I'm inking, maybe I need something upbeat and loud. So it really changes as the process goes forward. >> Megan Halsband: Trusting. >> Nisi Shawl: But really for me, it's like I need music but I can't have lyrics in a language that I understand because that's just like somebody is like writing all over my page. But the thing that you should take from this, everybody who's trying to write is that it will be different for every person. So try different stuff and then figure out what works for you because it may not be the same thing as works for Elliott or Abbott or Finesse or whoever. Just try it and then figure it out. >> Megan Halsband: That is one of the things that I have always enjoyed about coming to the book festival and getting to talk with authors is to kind of hear about how they go about doing their work and how they got there, because it isn't -- It's magic but it's not magic. Do you know what I mean? Anybody can make something themselves. They just have to find what their thing is and that can be really hard. And something, again, that in the books is your characters do that. They find something that helps make them who they are and who they're learning to be and I really enjoyed that. And hopefully when everybody gets a chance to read all of them, you will you will find the same thing and many other things in there. Let's see. what else should we -- I think we're going to leave some time at the end for questions. And I know you guys probably have quite a few. Do we want to do questions now? >> Nisi Shawl: We've had questions for like five minutes. >> Jamar Nicholas: I love it. >> Megan Halsband: All right. >> Jamar Nicholas: How do we do that? >> Nisi Shawl: in the purple shirt? >> Megan Halsband: Yep. Do you want to come up to the microphone? >> Jamar Nicholas: No. [laughs] >> Jamar Nicholas: Do you have a comment? >> [inaudible] >> Jamar Nicholas: Wow. >> Nisi Shawl: You should be up here. >> Jamar Nicholas: Yeah. So we share something in common. I don't know if you heard that. She said that. Who is it? Your grandfather? Your uncle's name is Nicholas. And whose name is Denise. Your grandmother. Oh, that's very cool. >> Nisi Shawl: Yeah, yeah. You are destined. You are the child of destiny. >> Jamar Nicholas: How about you in a mortal Kombat shirt? >> Nisi Shawl: Can you get up to that? >> Jamar Nicholas: Yeah, can you talk into the microphone? >> Nisi Shawl: That's cool, man, just talk. We can hear you if you just -- >> Jamar Nicholas: All right, my man, Let's go. >> In your book, "Leon The Extraordinary", I watched this one show and your book looks -- you said that your book is in the world with everybody has a superpower except a few people. It sort of sounds like a TV show I watched. >> Jamar Nicholas: I know what you're talking about. So I've been getting this a little lately. it's a manga, an anime called "My Hero Academia." I've never watched that show. And there's something really interesting about the comparisons because once in a while when you're doing things that a lot of people haven't seen before, they want to compare them to something else they've seen. Oh, you know what? I love the way you draw. You draw like this other guy that I like. And I think just as humans, we like to make comparisons and I hear it's a really great show, but I've never watched it but I've heard of it. Thank you, man. That was a good question. How about you when the gray in the back. >> Did you ever use animals in any of your books? >> Jamar Nicholas: Did I ever use animals in my books? No, because I don't like drawing animals. [laughter] It's one of the worst things ever for me to draw animals. But people have asked when my dog is going to show up in my books, so I don't know. We may have to change that. Thank you. >> Nisi Shawl: I wrote a bunch of stories from the viewpoint of a talking dog, Black Betty. There's Black Betty, there's Red Mattie, who's an elephant and then there's White Dawn, who is a parrot. Okay, parrots talk anyway. And then in the book that's coming out in January, several of the chapters are from the viewpoint of a monkey. A monkey named Raffles. >> Jamar Nicholas: That's great. >> Megan Halsband: Are you allowed to tell us what the name of the book is? >> Nisi Shawl: Oh, yeah, sorry. The book that's coming out in January with Raffles the monkey is called "Kinning." >> Jamar Nicholas: Very cool. >> Megan Halsband: Okay, in the pink, yeah. >> In your book, do you want this man extraordinary or extra ordinary? >> In your book, do you want this man extraordinary or extra ordinary? >> Jamar Nicholas: You're going to have to read it and find out. That's a great question. And isn't it so cool that we can play with that word? Like, depending on how you say it could mean something else that really connects with Leon. So I can't wait for you to read it and tell me what you think. Thank you. Can we answer questions from the back? >> Nisi Shawl: sure. You mean from the grown-ups? >> Jamar Nicholas: How about -- All right, cool. How about you, yes, miss. Yes, You, yeah. >> I'm wondering what drew each of you to the fantasy science fiction world. >> Nisi Shawl: What fantasy? No You don't see ghosts? [laughs] This is a surprise to me. I write about the stuff that I really think does happen, and, yeah, magic happens. It's real. That's all I'll say about that. >> Jamar Nicholas: I think in my instance, what I'm doing with Leon is a little bit of a love letter to comics. And even though I'm a cartoonist and I've drawn all types of comic books over the years, what I really love about Leon's world is that it's kind of a little nod to the tropes that we've all grown up with superheroes. Like I bet if I pull this Beethoven bust's head back, I'll find a secret cave, you know? And like, don't you know that the weatherman's a superhero? Can't you see the cape hanging out the back of his shirt? How come you can't see that? So that's one of Leon's things, is that he just kind of knows that there's another thing going on, and I always thought that was fantastic. So I guess that's a little bit science fiction. I mean, it's real, it is real. So I keep looking for the secret compartment in my house, but I just keep breaking things. So one of these days, thank you. Do we talk to you yet? Are you sure? All right, let's see, what do you have? Go ahead. >> What is your favorite part of the writing process? >> Jamar Nicholas: Oh, that's a great question. You want to go? >> Nisi Shawl: No? >> Jamar Nicholas: No. >> Nisi Shawl: What is my favorite part of the writing process? My favorite part of the writing process is when people have read my stuff and they like, understand what I'm trying to do, when they get it. And that can be like critics, that can be kids, that can be adults, strangers, my mom. My mom once got a poem that I wrote, so fabulous. What about you? >> Jamar Nicholas: My favorite part of the process is being finished. Well it's a little different for me and a big thing with cartoonists is that a lot of people-- it's a visual thing, right? And people are like, oh, I really like that page you drew or I really liked-- that's a really great mailbox you drew. But a lot of times people don't ask a lot of questions about the writing part and you have to create the story to have the settings in the book. So what I really enjoy about writing is the planning and I'm basically setting a stage for what I'm going to draw later. So it's exciting to me, but a lot of people don't ask about the writing, so I'm glad you asked that question. >> Megan Halsband: I've talked to a lot of cartoonists and illustrators and people working in comics where they talk about their writing process and that it really can be-- they have a whole novel in their head but the way that they want it to come out is plus pictures. And so it isn't actually that much of a difference between writing a full on novel and writing a graphic novel. It's just a slightly different way of showing the ideas in your head. >> Jamar Nicholas: Exactly. And just to add on to that, something that I like saying is I'm a visual thinker, and even when I'm plotting things out, I'll kind of do thumbnails. Do you kids know what a thumbnail is? Well it means something different now with YouTube, with thumbnails, a little picture, it's the same thing. They're little tiny drawings of kind of like outlines of what I'm going to do later. >> Nisi Shawl: Like a sketch. >> Jamar Nicholas: Yeah, they're all like little sketches. And that's where a lot of the thinking happens. So is there more questions. How about you in a black and we'll come back to the pod people. >> Nisi Shawl: Hey, Brittany. >> My son's eight, and he has stories scattered all over the house. Do you remember your first story? Did your caregivers or guardians hold on to them? >> Jamar Nicholas: You know, that's a great question. And no, I don't remember. I do remember the first character I came up with. And this was a little later. My first job -- I love to talk about first job. My first job, I worked at a Kmart and I found out that there was a staff newspaper and I was like, do you need a cartoonist? I would draw these really mean comic strips about the customers at Kmart. And what I found really exciting is that everybody loved it and I was hooked. So but thank you for that. That's a great question. >> Nisi Shawl: Oh, there are two things going on. I had a best friend and we would like write songs and make plays together. We did like a send up of "The Wizard of Oz" using our teachers as the characters, yeah. But then the first one that I wrote and actually on my own was this sort of -- okay, the world has ended and all of these teenagers are going around to different sites, like going to bridges and engineering sites because they're sort of like in love with the technology that people used to have. It was a romance, too, so that was the first one. Ninth grade, Mrs. Judd English. Got a good grade on it. >> Megan Halsband: I'm impressed that both of you have those, like, stuck memories. I personally can't remember the first thing. Oh, wait, actually, I do. My mom kept one of my first drawings of a cat family, and so I had this whole little story about cats. I'm an okay driver and an okay writer. I like to read more than I do anything else. Do we want to? >> Jamar Nicholas: Some of the littles down here? How about you right in front of me, yes? >> What's, like, your least favorite or hardest part of the writing process? >> Jamar Nicholas: What's the hardest part of the writing process? Do you want to? >> Nisi Shawl: Oh, there's so many hard parts. It really is work. But probably the hardest part is getting started. I mean, always every time it's like, do I have half an hour? Well, that's not going to get me anywhere. Do I have an hour? Okay, now I can go. >> Jamar Nicholas: That's a great question. I think for me, it's editing because I have so many ideas. I have to figure out how to not make them all happen at the same time. So I have to put some things in my pocket and use things sparingly. So it's really hard sometimes to kind of turn off the faucet, so to speak. How about you in the plan, my man right there. Yeah, I love the look down. Yes, go ahead. No, he's not going to go. >> "In Leon The Extraordinary" [inaudible] >> "In Leon The Extraordinary" [inaudible] [laughs] >> Jamar Nicholas: oh, I love it. Yeah, that's a big part of Leon's deal in the books. He goes to school cosplaying as a superhero. So even though he doesn't have powers, he has a tablecloth around his neck from home. And you know the big dishwashing gloves-- does anybody have dishwashing gloves at home when you wash the dishes? He wears those on his hands and goggles. And some kids at school are like, bro, what are you even doing? So that does come