>> Narrator:
We began as a vision.
We've become so much more.
Today from Yorkshire and London,
the British Library cares for a
living, breathing collection
that grows every day, just like
the knowledge it fuels.
From scientists to novelists,
from family historians
to students,
we've answered
thousands of questions.
>> And helped me
to finish my thesis.
>> Narrator: We look after
the UK's culture and heritage,
both physical and digital,
curating and preserving
for future generations.
We are the gateway
to a world of wonder.
>> Hands on the bridge.
Feel the rhythm of the train.
Hands on the window.
Feel the rhythm of the rain.
>> Narrator: Where
young minds are lit up and...
Anyone can join in.
>> Hands on your heart.
Feel the rhythm inside.
>> Narrator:
All across the UK,
with the help of our library
partners, we ignite imaginations
and help new businesses to grow.
We are international.
The relationships we've built
pave the way for the
innovations of tomorrow.
Our events and
exhibitions inspire
new discoveries and
spark conversations.
We are everyone's library,
and together we're
just getting started.
>> Please welcome the 14th
Librarian of Congress,
Dr. Carla Hayden,
and the Chief Executive
of the British Library,
Sir Roly Keating.
[Applause]
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: We're going
to start with full disclosure.
We have been jealous
of the British Library
for quite a while, and you see,
I'm even speaking
with a fake accent.
However, congratulations on the
50th anniversary of
the British Library.
Now I just have to say,
the Library of Congress is
223 years old and
Britain is centuries old.
So could you explain
to our audience
why is the
British Library so young?
>> Sir Roly Keating: Do you
know one of the nice--
Thank you, Carla. I hadn't
had-- Nice. It is to be here.
And what a spectacular
place to be. Thank you.
One of the nice things
about this anniversary is
people keep saying how young
you are, which is not always the
case with a birthday
or an anniversary.
And yes, it is a little
confusing because we do have
roots that go back
quite a long way.
So and I sometimes say that one
of the wonderful things about
this job is that you get to be
in an institution that's old and
young all at the same time.
So the old bit is that, of
course, the British Library
includes collections most
notably inherited from the
British Museum.
The British Museum Library.
And when people think, by the
way, about the famous round
reading room or Karl Marx
writing "Das Kapital,"
that was the
British Museum Library.
And that, of course, does
indeed it as an institution
back to the mid 18th century.
And then it in turn inherited
remarkable personal collections
that were built up over the
100 years or more before.
And yes, of course, if you
really want age of collections,
you've got, as you have amazing
ancient papyri or Chinese oracle
bones or other things
that take you right back
thousands of years.
But in 1972 and 1973,
Britain was looking around and
realizing in that post-war
period, what do we not have?
And actually the truth was,
we did not have a standalone
national library.
We had this extraordinary
collection within an
extraordinary museum.
And also there were by that
time a number of other
quasi national library
collections institution, many of
them to do with science and
scientific research, which the
British Museum was
not so strong on.
There was a National Central
Library, which was a much more
open, democratic
kind of a national library.
There was the National
Bibliography, because
this was the emergent age of
data and what the policy makers
in the UK did very boldly.
They took a very,
very deep breath.
And we say, we're going to
extract that heritage collection
and combine it with these other
organizations and turn it into a
new kind of library where we're
actually going to put knowledge
to work. And this was a rebuild.
This was historically a
sort of post-war rebuild.
And this was about contributing
not just to history and memory
and culture and creativity, of
course, all of those things, but
also to innovation, to science,
to industry and business.
And that's been, if you like,
the particular characteristic,
I think, spirit of the
British Library since then.
And it meant that new
entity, which took a long time
to find its feet physically,
because I guess the HQ was still
in the British Museum for
another 25 years, at least in
London, until it moved to the
red brick building
at Saint Pancras.
How many people here have
been to the red brick building?
Okay. Quite a few. Let's go.
We're not-- It's not
that unfamiliar, but
That's another
birthday, by the way.
That is 25 years since Her
Majesty the Queen opened that.
But eventually, this new sister
institution came into being,
and it's benefited, I think,
from that burst of fresh energy.
It means that as a
standalone institution,
we sometimes say we're still
learning, we're still evolving.
Within a year or two of our
foundation, Microsoft was
founded, Apple was founded.
And so we've sort of begun
to come of age in this
extraordinary era of
data and technology.
And so we feel, I guess, 50
years young at this juncture
and looking ahead to the next
50 years where I think
we're going to
change and grow again.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Now, one of the cornerstones,
and if you haven't been
to the British Library,
one of the most striking
features when you
go in is a wonderful plaza.
But you see this glass
enclosed stack of books.
That are just magnificent.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yeah, they are.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
King George III collections.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
King George III
personal collection of books.
So look, for those of you who
have been there, you'll know
what Carla is talking about.
Inside, if you come
into the library,
you walk over a piazza.
And by the way, the piazza
is the roof of our stacks.
So I often say it's not really
a square, a town square,
it's a roof. You just happen
to be able to walk over it.
And that's where the majority
of our collections in London are
stored. But there's one
particular collection which has
to be on public display,
and it is indeed the personal
collection that King George III
who I know is remembered
in the UK and here for
certain other things.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
We'll talk about it.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
He was involved with and
that's cool too. But to us,
he was, I was going to
say a bibliophile, but
that's not even quite right.
It was more like
Wikipedia or something.
He wanted genuinely, in a true,
curious minded way, to scour the
world and sent his scouts out.
He didn't go to these shops
himself, but to send out his
agents and scouts to bring back
the greatest, most up to date
knowledge of its time in many,
many languages, very much in the
tradition of what we are.
And after his death in the
early 19th century, it was
agreed that this collection
would be handed over to the
nation to the British Museum,
in fact, with the proviso that
it had to be not just publicly
accessible and usable,
which it is to this day.
If you come to the library, you
can order up any of those books,
but it had to be publicly
visible as well.
And so at the museum, it was in
what's now in the enlightenment
Gallery. And when the new
building was built, the decision
was taken, I think, inspired
again in a transatlantic spirit,
partly by the Beinecke Library
and in America, a huge--
So a huge glass tower
that glows with light,
six storeys. And one of the
things we found is that as new
generations of younger users
come into the library who maybe
spend most of their time
studying through laptops or
screens, they all kind of want
to sit close to King George's
Library. It's like a magnet.
So, you know, we're
very proud to have that.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
It's so striking.
And I know that, you know, you
saw some of the plans that the
Library of Congress has to
relocate Thomas
Jefferson's library.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yes, that's very exciting.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
The same types of things.
So I just have to-- In
terms of the treasures,
and you have that recently,
though, and this is hot off the
presses. The Guinness
Book of World Records
came to both of us.
The British Library.
And the Library of Congress
just decide which one was the
largest library in the world.
Let me just say that the
Library of Congress won.
But let's talk about
how things are counted
because you have items.
And it became this.
And you'll notice--
>> Sir Roly Keating: We've
established that you have nearly
two centuries on us
here. You've had a--
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: Conversation
[Inaudible] Thomas Jefferson.
But there is a friendly rivalry
and not even rivalry,
camaraderie with national
libraries and our partners like
the British Museum or
in here, the Smithsonian.
But when you look at the
treasures that you have, and
that was one of the
inspirations when we visited the
British Library several years
ago, not only was I jealous
about how busy it was, it
was bustling with events.
You had all types
of programs going on.
People were hanging out and
that piazza, you had gelato.
I mean, it was like happening.
People were drinking coffee,
even, not just tea.
And then we went and then they
had the treasures Gallery that
had they had the
Beatles and
just J.K. Rowling, all of that
cool British stuff on display.
And then your store.
I didn't even want to buy any.
I don't even like green, but
the way you displayed things,
there was a green
book and a green purse.
I almost got it.
It was wonderful.
And one of the things we just
did directly from you was and
these different colored books,
you had crime classics.
And so now the Library of
Congress has a series
and we gave you a copy.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Thank you very much.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Of the Library of Congress.
But just share some
of the treasures
that you have and
the activities.
>> Sir Roly Keating: The
treasures. Yes. No color.
I mean, we need
to explain color.
You came to the library maybe
six years ago. Seven years ago
And and I think maybe it was
like a memorable thing for
both of us. And thank you.
We're touched that it
made an impression on you.
You, of course, made an
impression on us.
And I should say we've been
watching with admiration
the things that have been
happening here.
So this is a dynamic sector,
even if there is friendly
rivalry over size.
But yet I think we'll accept
very slightly bigger, slightly
different kind of library
congressional but nonetheless
different. And but that
world you describe of--
I suppose what you're
talking about actually
is we're not yet in
what you're describing
is not yet the reading
rooms of the library.
It's the spaces that are
free and seven days a week.
And I think one thing we gently
have done over the years is just
find every way we can to say,
you are welcome.
This is for everyone.
It is open, it is free
and yes, no judgment.
If you just want to come in and
hang out, if you want to come in
and meet. We did indeed
upgrade the coffee.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
You moved the cafeteria?
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yeah. Yes, we--
There was a piece of dead space
quite near the front.
And now one of London's
best coffee makers.
The Origin Cafe is now there.
And and actually, gradually
these very grand and beautiful
spaces have just become, I
hope, genuinely hope, a place
that's comfortable
for everyone to be.
And I was on a bus from
my house to the library about
two days ago, and just
occasionally nice things happen.
And there were two teenage
girls discussing
which desk they were going to
try and get in the front area,
because it's very competitive
to get the really nice ones.
So definitely different
generations now come in
and just want to be there.
Partly I think,
because in this very
intense, screen dominated,
noisy world,
it's quite hard, especially if
you're just an ordinary
young person around
town, to find a place
where you can just think.
A place that is literally
engineered to calm you down,
to slow you down and be with
other people who are also
wanting to do that.
And yes, in the public spaces,
people are chatting and they're
buying coffee and
shopping occasionally.
But at the heart of it is a kind
of library thing going on,
which is about people quietly
helping each other to
concentrate and to be
in a beautiful space.
And that's become--
I'm not sure we planned for
that exactly, except that we
just put out a few more casual
public desks with decent
power points. But
that was about it.
And since then, the users
have sort of self curated that
ambience and experience, and
we've then tried to go with the
direction that they've set,
and this is unfinished business.
We're still working on
how to do that.
And then yes,
beyond that, also for free.
Also seven days a week is the
Treasures Gallery, which again,
I hope people who have visited
have had a chance to see.
It is a thing of wonder.
In some ways I think
it's almost crazy
because it's all one
room and it takes,
you know, just
jostling together.
You've got Jane Austen's
writing desk there, or the
earliest dated
printed book there.
There is a little glorified
cupboard in the corner that says
Magna Carta, and that
is indeed Magna Carta.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
You have a Gutenberg Bible.
>> Sir Roly Keating: We do have
a beautiful
Gutenberg Bible here.
Yeah, I think we were
whispering that there are three
perfect Gutenberg Bibles, and
it might be you, us, and the
Bibliotheque Nationale.
So it's good. But yes,
that's also there in the
treasures. And I'm fascinated
to hear your ambitions here,
because these things
never stay still.
And I think if we build, we
hope to do an extension
at the rear of our library.
We're hoping that we can maybe
liberate some of our other
spaces to have a slightly
expanded, more generous display
interpretation storytelling
of that collection.
Because small as we are in
comparison with your collection,
with 170 million items to
deal with--
>> Carla Hayden: 178.
>>178 million. Exactly.
There are countless
millions of stories to be told
that way, and we want
to tell more of them.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: And
that's what inspired us with our
new plan to have a
treasures gallery.
It's going to be right
up there and to have the
rotating part, because there
are so many things there.
And when you think about the
importance, though, of having
things being inviting,
you still maintain
the reading rooms, the
sanctity of the reading rooms
for the scholars or researchers,
or how do you
define that, though?
>> Sir Roly Keating:
We do.
I mean, the reading rooms are
also for everyone, or I should
say nearly everyone, there for
everyone internationally,
by the way, anyone
here can come.
They are not currently for the
under 18s, but apart from
that, all you have to do is
come to the library and we need
proof of address because for
some of the published materials,
and for security
reasons, we need that.
And actually, full disclosure,
it used to be much tougher than
that. And that folk memory is
still really strong in the UK.
And I meet many, many people
who think it's extremely
difficult to get into the
reading rooms of the
British Library. They think
that you need a PhD
or you need a
professor's letter.
And actually 30 years
ago that was true.
So and I think, Carla, you
know, this from it's maybe,
I mean, public libraries
are always never this way.
But in the more research
library world, there was a
protectiveness perhaps, which
we're gradually turning inside
out and saying, no,
this is for everyone.
So actually, I think we'd
probably say that the
reading rooms in
our London base,
there are 11 of them,
all quite close
to each other, with a slightly
different theme and character,
and it's not so much that they
are for scholars, although
scholars love them, but they
are for anyone who actually
wants to be in that kind of
environment where you are not
just in a genuinely quiet
space, but where you do suddenly
unlock the power of the
reference librarians, the
experts, and indeed,
of course you do
then have the magic key to
order up and ask for physically
anything in the collection and
indeed, by the way, to access
some of the restricted digital
content that we hold on.
Legal deposit and so on, and
that it's like a gradation of
experience. And I don't know if
we're going to talk about the
pandemic, but that was the
habit that maybe did get
lost in the pandemic.
And we're just beginning to
bring the reading rooms
back to life. I think we're
about up to maybe 60% occupancy
on a typical day, whereas in the
old days it was more like 80%.
So I think we'll get there.
But one thing that we have
done, we've been prompted to do
for the first time, actually,
is advertise the reading rooms
and actually market our core,
what you might call our core
service, which we always
took for granted previously.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
We're not there yet.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Okay, okay.
We're going to come
back to London, Carla.
Come and ride--
the underground.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Really impressed me, though.
When I was there, I sat in on
one of your classes for
young teenagers.
And you had one of your senior
curators taking them through and
using-- It was quite--
He was very scholarly.
You could tell with his things,
but he had them looking on the
map of Great Britain and
talking about language and
accents and how they
pronounce things.
And of course, the US people
in the back were like, wait till
you hear us talk.
Where do you think we're from?
But they the kids loved it.
So you have a really robust
education programme like that.
Where you get your
curators involved.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
We do. I mean, honestly,
the curators have
been fantastic,
especially over this last ten
years. When we launched our
previous strategy called
Living Knowledge in 2015,
we didn't ask permission,
but we rewrote
the purposes of the library.
We just went back to basics
and we tried to express
in plain language what the
library exists to do.
And for the first time, we
wrote a proper learning purpose
in there. And we expressed
our commitment to inspire
learners of all ages with
learning experiences.
And I think that was a signal
because the building,
a wonderful 25 year old
magnificent London building
we're very proud
of, but it was built
without a learning space
in the spec that just hadn't--
On that journey, we were
talking about opening up
maybe back in the 1980s when
that design was being fixed.
A national library, a national
research library was not
seen automatically, at least as
somewhere where school classes
would come in.
And this is another
part of that journey.
And I think with living
knowledge we encoded learning as
one of our core purposes.
And we've been investing
in the team, raising funds.
We rely quite a bit on
philanthropy in this area to
really grow the whole
learning program.
We've trebled
I think our physical figures,
when we do build our extension,
we'll be able to double them
again and actually put
a learning space right at the
heart of the library so that
young people, children, school
classes can not always be heard
but can be seen, seen around
the place, and they in their
turn can be exposed to the
wonders and treasures.
And yes, I think that
process has changed.
The curators sense of their
role very willingly, and I think
they've enjoyed it.
But but they've come on a
journey to realise that the
wisdom and knowledge they have
can be communicated not just to
maybe their academic peers, but
to a nine year old who hasn't
yet got any fixed idea about
what the world might be for them
and can have a
transformatory experience.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: And
one of the things that helps
people think about that is
to go back to when they were
a nine year old
or seven year old.
What was it that led you--
What experiences did you have
that led you to be the PhD in
whatever right now?
And they would say,
oh, the British Library
and I got a chance to--
>> Sir Roly Keating:
I hope so.
I mean, I think that is one of
the thoughts that we do now.
We used to talk ten years ago
about maybe inspiring the
researchers of tomorrow, but
now I think that's beginning to
come true in front of our eyes.
We've got nine year olds who
then who were 19 year olds now
and really are in the academic
space and doing their research.
So I think that's part of the
I think the interest of
being this relatively young
institution in this current form
is that it feels like we're
growing a generation for whom
I hope the idea of the serious
library is not something alien
or distant, but actually
like a birthright
and something that's natural.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: And
that's what's different about
national libraries, because
the Library of Congress,
for instance, is
the national library,
the Bibliotheque Nationale.
And there's a difference
with the public libraries,
the local libraries.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Well, like
all these library conversations.
It's about difference, for sure.
And national libraries have
very, very particular, often
quite complicated roles.
And we're all slightly
different there.
Whereas public libraries
have their own character and
they tend to be lending
libraries or circulating
libraries, they tend to be very
rooted in their communities.
But I think one of the organic
changes we've felt in ourselves
and again, we've then gone
with the flow and pushed
ourselves to go further is to
connect or maybe reconnect with
the public libraries in the UK.
I think when I came to the
BL in 2012, I think it had been
as an institution through a
phase of establishing itself,
quite rightly in its new
building, and was maybe quite
distant from the main public
library system, which is,
of course, a completely
constitutionally separate thing.
Our public libraries are
managed by our local
authorities, our
local governments.
But we began to reach out to
some of the most dynamic
public library
leaders and authorities
across the UK after we published
Living Knowledge and said, do
you want to just work with us
in ways that even we don't quite
know what it means, but it just
might be interesting to see
what happens when a national
library comes together
with a public library.
And we got actually-- just to
complicate things, our other
friend, our other national
libraries in Scotland and Wales
were part of this. And out of
this came the what we call the
Living Knowledge Network, which
is now a pan UK network not of
every public library, but quite
a lot of public libraries, the
ones who really want to
maybe do things differently.
And it's a living experiment.
With events like this, we would
live stream into our partner
libraries, and real audiences
would come in live and be
posting questions
during a live stream.
And that's that's created a
different kind of network once a
year now, when we do one of
our big temporary exhibitions
in our London gallery, we
work with our public library
partners. We're using our
curatorial skills and the panel
structure to help them curate
local versions of the exhibition
simultaneously, often using
their own collections.
And that's proven to be a
really powerful and different
kind of experience.
And I'm thinking recently
we did one of our smaller
exhibitions in London called
Chinese and British, about
the history of the
Chinese British community.
But we did versions of it in
libraries across the UK through
the Living Knowledge Network.
And I think we calculated we had
660,000 people visited a
version of that exhibition
through the public
library network.
Not seeing our content, but
seeing the storytelling that had
come out of our exhibition.
So I think is this about
similarity or about
difference? I think it's about
complementarity, and it's
changed us because it's made us
understand the community
connection that actually only
public libraries can
really have, I think.
But I hope it's also maybe
helped public libraries benefit
a little bit from just the
sheer brand power or convening
power that a national
library can give.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
So what happened when you had
the blockbuster Harry Potter?
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Oh, yeah. Yes.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: We're
talking blockbuster because
you had the Harry
Potter exhibit.
That must have been
truly phenomenal.
We heard about it.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Oh, good.
And we did actually do a
version of it in New York
at New York Historical.
Yes. I mean, that was actually
where we pioneered this
pan UK local library version.
And yes, in fact, that reached
three quarters of a million
people. So even more
but in a way, as you say, that's
a blockbuster subject.
That's a world famous brand.
And yes, it was a bit of
a step change as an exhibition
for us. It was one of the first
times I think we'd done an
exhibition focused on the
work of a living writer,
and we did it, I hope, in a very
uniquely British Library way,
because we wanted to bring
our own historic manuscript,
our global historic
collections into play.
So we themed it around the
history of magic routed through
the Hogwarts curriculum.
And we turned the gallery into
Hogwarts, but with really
remarkable serious
collection items there.
And yes, that synth has gone on
to tour the world, and there's
still a Google arts
and culture version.
If you want to look
at it, look at it online.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
That really--
Would you mind sharing with
people your background,
your personal background?
I think it's really cool.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Interesting. Yeah.
I'm happy to do that.
I mean, I have a really
simple career CV, which is
not a librarian. My university,
I studied classics,
which qualifies you for
absolutely-- Well, being polite,
absolutely everything. But you
could say absolutely nothing as
well. And so I had that
interesting final year of
university moment.
And maybe just it's
a generational thing.
What I realized I loved and had
grown up with, particularly
in the UK, was broadcasting,
radio, television,
and I had the great
privilege of joining the BBC
as a trainee in my early 20s.
And I kind of kept meaning to
leave and do something else.
But just to say, 29 years
passed and I was a producer,
a filmmaker, director, and then
went on to become more of a
channel executive and
increasingly involved in the
digital side of the BBC.
And it is an
extraordinary institution.
It's another great British
institution with the word
British in the title, with lots
of complexities and challenges.
And I think I'd always
said you would only leave
the BBC in the unlikely event
that something even more
interesting were to
happen, to present itself.
And in the digital work
we were doing at the BBC,
it was the early days of
streaming, and we were already
beginning to think, what does
it mean to convert ourselves
into a digital organization as
a broadcaster where actually
content is no longer ephemeral,
but it becomes like a
collection, it becomes a
permanent thing.
And we began to talk to some
British institutions that were
pioneering in this space.
And that was when I first met
the British Library team and I
filed away. I was very
impressed by them and they were
doing great work. This was
under Lynne Brindley, my very
distinguished
predecessor at the BL.
I had not thought of
it as a career option.
That was not in my mind at all.
But when Lynne announced her
retirement, I just had a private
message from someone, I think,
on the board there and said,
is it the kind of thing I'd
consider getting interested in?
And I said no, really?
Maybe. And then the more I
found out about it, the more
seduced. And in the end, I put
my name forward for it.
I took it very seriously.
I said, yes, this is one of the
most-- you must know being here.
These are extraordinary roles.
They're a great privilege.
And that was, yes, getting
on for 12 years ago.
That was in 2012.
So I did make the switch from
media to the National Library
world. But I can only say
it never felt like a jolt.
I left the BBC on a Tuesday and
started at the library on the
Wednesday.
And they are both institutions
that are, as Library of Congress
is interested in everything.
They're kind of generous
and capacious and they're
committed in an absolutely non
profit way to draw people in and
tell stories and make knowledge
available and try and help
people make sense of the world.
And actually, to my surprise,
maybe to the library's surprise,
it turned out there was quite a
lot of what we'd been doing
at the BBC that actually felt
quite natural as the evolution,
at least of the British Library.
So yes.
But but as you say, an
unusual background, I guess,
by the standards of the sector.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Some unusual times too.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
But unusual times.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Pandemic. You mentioned that.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Oh yes. Well, indeed.
And I don't know what to say
about the pandemic, I think.
And I'd be interested to hear
your reflections here.
We telephoned each
other, I think, in the early
stages of it, really just in a
sort of almost a mutual exchange
of knowledge combined
with cry for help.
Really. Because what do you do
when, however digital you are.
And we both are as institutions
and both are great pioneers.
And sure enough, by the way,
when it became clear that
we were going to have to close
the building, it was March, the
20 something 2020, we did
immediately tweet, as we used to
say in those days,
we tweeted, #BLisopen
and we meant it. In other words,
we were saying we're a digital
organization as well, and in
every conceivable way we can
remain relevant and open
to people. We will be.
And the teams switched to a
digital first mentality as best
they could in countless ways,
and that was great.
But it was an instant lesson
for me and actually
the fact that the power of
libraries is about the
combination, that distinctive
combination of the physical and
the digital. And if you rip the
physical part out and close it,
then you're you're a good ghost
of your former self.
But you are a ghost. And I think
it was a difficult period.
We learnt a lot.
We became more digitally
adept in all sorts of ways.
We we learnt to promote and
encourage use of our digital
collections. We realised how
big our digitised collections
are and that's great.
Although we also learnt, of
course, what we can't offer
digitally, which is most of our
in-copyright 20th and 21st
century content.
And in terms of cultural events
and talks like this and stage
events, we'd already begun
to live stream a little bit.
And of course we then learned
to do it on zoom and other
platforms like that.
And and it was great.
And we were found. We were
getting a global footprint for
some of those events.
And so in that sense, we
were able to promote ourselves
more fluently as an
international institution.
So it had some positives.
And interestingly, as
the sort of rebuild of society
got going, it was interesting
that libraries opened ahead of
other cultural institutions,
quite rightly, and the role
certainly of public libraries
as just civic centres, community
centres became recognised by
government, which was a healthy
thing because libraries get
taken for granted and they
became one of the safe spaces.
And yes, for us, we opened as
soon as we could and as we were
saying earlier, we've been
rebuilding our footfall.
I would say now around the
public spaces of the building,
we're as lively and
busy as ever.
As a working organization, we
are still in that interesting
zone that everyone running a
business or an organization is
in around what's known
as hybrid working.
And and huge national libraries
like ours with large staff
cohorts cover a multitude
of different work types.
And some of our staff have jobs
where, of course, they're on
site every single day.
They're serving users, they're
meeting people, they're handling
physical books.
At the other end,
we have very, very digital
teams, often of a younger
generation for whom the
pandemic was barely influenced
because they were used to
working in a mobile way and
working from home.
And I think we're just still on
a journey to understand where
that is going to settle
as a professional community,
because and I'm trying not to
be too generational about this
and say, you have to be
in the office all the time.
But in my heart, I also feel
there's a power to being in a
real space with real people as
a professional community that
cannot be replaced by Microsoft
Teams or other interesting
digital products.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Well, one other thing.
The library Congress just
announced a new five year plan.
And of course the British
Library just announced theirs.
A seven year plan.
Oh boy.
But what were some of the
things that you found
that carried over from pandemic.
This is a beautiful knowledge
matters. 2023 to 2030.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Yes. So we
just published this year.
This is the sequel to Living
Knowledge that I talked about.
And I mean, Carla, there's a
lot of continuity with what we
have been doing. And I was
hearing about your strategic
plan, talking to the
executive team today.
And similarly here, of course,
because there are huge projects
that we're doing, whether
they're big digital investments
or capital programs and capital
projects, and indeed those
statements of mission and
purpose that I talked about,
those are intact and
they stay the same.
But it is one of our values,
I'm sure, yours to adapt to
a changing world.
And you'll see on the
back of knowledge matters.
There are certain themes which
run through all our purposes
that we are thinking about,
which were there implicitly,
maybe before, but I mean to
give a flavour of some of them.
You'll see coming through this
even more around access,
engagement and inclusion.
Taking that word, everyone in
our mission statement and just
pushing it a bit further, what
other barriers can we remove to
letting people enjoy and
make use of this extraordinary
collection? We talk about
modernizing our library services
because actually, for all the
excitement and expansion,
these are big
logistical operations
and you need to be good at it.
And we've got a whole programme
of reinvestment in the basics
that we're going
to be focusing on.
We're talking about deepening
our partnerships because,
I mean, I talked about our
public library partnerships, but
we've also been partnering with
local communities or with other
organisations in our immediate
neighbourhood or with academic
libraries in new ways or
commercial partnerships.
And I think it dawned on us
midway through Living Knowledge
that actually, there's hardly
anything we do that isn't a
partnership in some way, and
it's always better when it is,
because broad as the British
Library is, we kind of touch on
every aspect of national life,
and there's always someone you
can work with who can push it
further, or who can bring you
into other communities
or other connections.
So deepening our partnerships
across every single thing that
we do, I think is going
to be one of our themes.
We talk a fourth theme is about
sustainability and the
climate emergency we're all
deeply worried about and for
which we do not have answers.
But we know as energy intensive
cultural and learning
institutions we've got to find
the right answer for.
And so we've put that in there
as an aspiration and a theme.
But I'll be very honest to say,
we need help from everyone who
cares about institutions like
this to know what is the role
and how do we adapt what we do,
how can we unlock knowledge in
ways that help the
cause and so on?
And then finally we talk about
new spaces north and south.
That important reassertion of
the physical and reinvesting in
our physical spaces, alongside
our digital and in a UK context,
we talk about North and South,
because even I tonight have been
talking about our London
building, but actually a third
of our staff and two thirds
now of our national physical
collection and a lot of our
basic operations are in
the north of England, not in
the south, in a place in
Yorkshire called Boston Spa.
I don't know how many people
in the room have heard of
Boston Spa. And hooray, we have
librarians in the room, I think.
Great. Boston Spa, by the way,
when you asked me about the
origin myth of the British
Library, Boston Spa was the home
to the National Lending Library
for Science and Technology.
It was a very pioneering
operation placed right in the
geographical center
of the British Isles.
Before the internet,
how did you get knowledge
to libraries and universities?
You use the motorway system,
and so they chose a
location right in the middle
of the road system.
Now, wonderfully, for us, it
means we're deeply rooted
in a place that is not London.
And part of our mission under
Knowledge Matters is to actually
now make ourselves as visible
in the north of England as we
are in the South.
And so we have an aspiration
you'll see in there
to raise a lot of money.
It's a huge project.
But to open up in the nearest
city to Boston Spa, which is
Leeds, which some
of you may know.
Wonderful city,
very dynamic city.
We're hoping to take over a
great heritage building, an old
mill building in Leeds and open
up a proper reading room,
public space,
exhibition gallery,
learning center so that we can
actually, as a physical service
as well as a digital service,
truly reach maybe
within 90 minutes.
Travel time, probably 11, 12
million people as we can in
London. So whether we'll
achieve that by 2030, I don't
know. But the journey
has to start now.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: And your
values, when you put that,
we put users at the
heart of everything we do.
Listen, innovate and
adapt to a changing world.
We embrace equality,
fairness and diversity.
We act with
openness and honesty.
Important to put
that the values.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yes. So we put our--
Carlos reading the values of
the library which we crafted
at the time we launched Living
Knowledge and we did it in
collaboration with our staff.
And to be honest, I didn't know
if they would necessarily take
root or last, but
it was interesting.
I remember within about a year
of launching Living Knowledge,
people were calling us out
occasionally on behaviour and
saying, are you living up to
the values there?
And then actually at the
end of our leadership team
meetings, we started asking one
of the team at the end of every
meeting just to do a little
2 or 3 minute review of the
meeting we've just had against
the values to say, did we
actually put users at the
heart of everything we do?
Did we ever? And you know,
occasionally the answer was yes,
but occasionally
you call yourself up.
Oh my God, we've been talking
about technology or bureaucracy
or system. We forgot to talk
about the audience or the users.
So they have taken root.
And so this time round, we
literally put them on the
back cover because
we wanted to hold.
I guess hold ourselves to them.
Doesn't mean we always live up
to them because they're
aspirational, but I think
they've helped us at least
have the conversation.
And sometimes the difficult
conversation about how you
change and evolve as an
employer or as a workplace
or as a service provider.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: The person
who's listening intently is our
principal deputy
librarian, Mark Sweeney,
who tries to make
sure that we keep
the values at the
forefront of what we do.
So I want to just publicly
thank Mark for that.
We didn't put it on the back,
but it's there.
So thank you, Mark.
>> Very good, Mark.
[Applause]
Our executive
meetings are similar.
And he does that.
Okay. Now friendly competition.
But there is an opportunity
for the Library of Congress.
We call ourselves the Big three.
We know that in Washington
there are a lot
of gangs of eight.
Gangs of six. We ar
the Gang of three,
the British Library,
the Library of Congress
and the Bibliotheque Nationale,
but other national
libraries too.
Welcome to Washington.
[Laughing]
But what are some of the ways
we can work together?
And what do you think?
Well, we've been talking.
>> Sir Roly Keating: I mean,
the world needs to know.
I mean, actually, we were
looking at your amazing
card catalog. I'm so jealous.
You still have
your card catalog.
That's fantastic. Earlier on.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: We even
have a book about it for sale.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yeah I bet. No. So you should.
Very cool.
But actually, metadata
cataloging, the world looks to
this organization for that.
And our metadata teams
collaborate with yours
very deeply. And it sounds
dry and it's not.
It's the foundation
of what we do.
And so there's a lot of organic
working that goes on always
behind the scenes and
curator to curator.
The fun stuff kicks in, perhaps
when we can actually think about
doing maybe joint projects.
And in fact, the project, you
talk about the big three,
when that project that happened
around France in the Americas
that brought British Library,
Bibliotheque Nationale,
Library of Congress together,
and is an indication, of course,
how bound together historically,
and therefore as a
living culture we are.
And I mean, I'm reflecting on
all sorts of aspects of what
we do. If you look at
knowledge matters,
you'll notice in the
international section, we talk
actually about renewing and
deepening our focus on the
Americas, USA for sure, Canada,
South America as well, because
I think we're ready to do that.
We are just de facto, just as
it was very moving for me to see
what an astonishing British
collection you are here, and we
are probably one of the most
important American collections
outside the Americas.
And so part of me, this next
seven year period is finding
ever new ways to do that.
And we've got with us on this
little delegation, not just
Marcy Hopkins, our director
of international, but also
Polly Russell, who's
Head of our Eccles Center.
And for those who don't know,
the Eccles Center at
the British Library,
founded 30 or something
years ago by an endowment,
is a center devoted
to American studies
at the British Library.
And and that was based on the
fundamental point that we do
have these remarkable holdings
of distinctly American content.
And then, of course, beyond
that, almost every corner of the
British Library collection is
full of material that actually
can connect with people in
their lives and memories here,
for obvious reasons, to do
with diversity and linguistic
diversity and so on.
And I think the Eccles Center
has done great work over the
decades, particularly in the
academic space, in the study
space with fellowships.
But I'm sure Polly would agree.
We would love it. Now to move
up a level and actually think
even more about public
engagement, creative activities,
finding different ways to get
sparks going between
the British Library and
our friends in the Americas
through Library of Congress
as the fundamental partner.
And there's so
many opportunities.
And of course, we've already
been talking today about 2026
and the two 50th anniversary
of the American Revolution.
And that's already sent sparks
in my brain, not just about what
might happen here, but also
what we might do in the UK
to tell a fresh story about what
happened then and the drama
of that which is still not
fully known and understood.
So yes.
Talking about lots
I think is the--
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: You
know that one of the reasons
why Thomas Jefferson sold as
personal library for Monticello.
>> Sir Roly Keating: I know
where this is going, but yes.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
If you don't know the story.
There was a fire.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
It's awful when
fires accidentally break out.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: Yes.
And there was a certain British
troop that the rumor has it that
they used books from the
nascent library collection to--
And I was shown the
fireplace with the British.
Yeah, it's over there.
We'll take you tomorrow.
So we do have a lot of work
to do. To mend fences and do
that. So I just want to thank
you so much for being here
with us, because we've learned
so much from you and the
partnership and what we can do.
In fact, we brought
out the good silver.
If you got a chance
to see the display.
There was one personal
thing for you that
our manuscript people.
Remember that they showed
you about your house.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Oh, this is really personal.
But we moved house.
This is a totally personal
thing. We moved house in London
two weeks ago, and it wasn't a
house we'd ever really meant to
move to, but we just happened
to take a look at it and fell in
love with it. And it's one of
the oldest terraced houses
in England. It's built before
the Great Fire, which is
extraordinary in itself, 1658.
But a hundred years later, in
the 1750s, to '80s, it was
lived in by a then very famous,
now rather forgotten in the UK,
philosopher, economist,
thinker, radical preacher called
Richard Price, who was a real
pioneer of all sorts of things.
But he was a great, great
friend of the founding Fathers
of America. He was a great
friend of Benjamin Franklin.
When Franklin was in London, he
was a correspondent, and he was
a great advocate
in England for American
independence, for the
American Revolution.
And he wrote about it,
he advocated for it.
And he was a great letter
writer and receiver of letters.
And this evening I had
the great privilege in your
manuscripts department of being
taken in to see a letter written
by Richard Price to Thomas
Jefferson, a letter that was
written in the house
that I now live in.
And I have to say,
that is just, wow.
>> All right. Did we--
>> Cannot quite
say what that means.
So thank you. Thank you.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
It's just too much.
So when we visit, I don't know.
>> Sir Roly Keating: We'll
come and visit the house.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Yeah. You got to do it.
I know we had a mike,
a real mike though.
If anybody wanted
to comment or...
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Yes, please.
Open to any questions
if anyone does.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: Because
we could do it. And if not--
>> Sir Roly Keating:
Oh there is a hand.
There is one. There is
one hand going up. Okay.
>> I have a question
about-- Sorry.
Your non-English
language collection.
I know the library's
collections. We collect
materials from Jakarta, Brazil,
all around the world.
Does the British Library
collect materials in other
foreign languages?
>> Sir Roly Keating: Thank
you. Yes we do, yes, we do.
And it's sort of, I suppose,
deep in the bones of
the British Library
as an institution.
Same here. And we are an
intensely multilingual
collection and always have been.
And of course, that is partly
to do with British mercantile,
imperial, colonial history.
But it's also to do with, I
think, some enlightenment ideas
about curiosity. I was
talking about George III,
and a lot of his collection is,
of course in multiple languages.
And over the time, that's
simply become an organic
tradition at the British Library
that we have continued
at the margins.
We can't do it huge.
But to maintain a degree of
linguistic diversity in the
collection, because actually
we've found that researchers,
student scholars, often they
can't travel to other national
libraries or travel the world.
And actually
we do believe, and it's a
kind of responsibility to be
a library of the world
and for the world.
And I don't know.
You have to.
Why would you do that when
every nation has a national
library and I can only
say maybe a little
part of the answer, as well as,
by the way, the gratitude of
many researchers
who make use of this.
But we had an amazing visit from
the First Lady of Ukraine
last autumn, and we were
able to show her some of our
Ukrainian collections,
not just historic ones,
but quite recent material.
And I can only say it was
a very moving moment.
And thank goodness,
I think as we speak.
My peer. Your peer.
Lyubov Dubrovina, who's
the librarian of the
National Vannovsky
Library in Kiev.
The collection is still intact.
The building is still intact.
But what's happening there
is a reminder that these
collections can be fragile.
And actually, there's a
mutuality in the national
library network in particular,
where we can support each other
and maintain a kind of use our
resources to maintain plurality.
And just a sense that it's a
bit like the sustainability
question. This is one planet,
one world knowledge.
And if we can play
what part we can in it
and not get trapped
just in one language,
tradition, or one
way of thinking.
I hope will be a be a better,
more useful library.
So short answer is yes.
But it's a continued expense.
We have to justify it.
But so far we are
continuing to do that. Yeah.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
Yeah. National libraries.
So, Keating, we
share the same king.
I'm just wondering.
Last year, we lost
Her Majesty the Queen.
And I'm wondering.
>> Sir Roly Keating: You know,
we are hearing you. Thank you.
>> And I was wondering
what you're doing
to commemorate
her life and reign.
>> Sir Roly Keating: I mean,
that's a lovely question.
I mean, Her Majesty,
thinking about 25 years at
Saint Pancras, her name is
literally carved into stone
because she officially opened
the building 25
years ago this year.
So we think of her every day.
And she was a great
friend of the library.
I don't think we would
memorialize her
in a way that's not sort of
natural or distinctive for us.
And what I like to think,
we did do when she died,
it immediately reach
into the collections to
find particularly just
instances of where her
extraordinary life had
touched the story of
the National Library.
And that was a very moving
and simple thing to do,
and I'm very glad we did.
And we had a memorial book
and people could come in and
sign and write messages for her
late majesty, and that felt very
right and felt very
right and proper.
But I think now what I suppose
I think of there and we, sorry,
I should say one other thing,
which is that we collect
digitally on the web.
And for that period, we
redoubled our efforts to
preserve websites that were
being created in her memory,
so that we wanted to make sure
that the sometime rather fragile
memory of the internet was
deepened, so that was a
classic moment of deep
national importance.
So what I hope is that
we've sort of added to the
record a little bit as her
life at the end of her life.
And now going forward,
she will be represented in
countless ways, millions
of ways in our collection.
And that's the proper
memorial that we can give.
We can say to people, really
every detail, every moment of
that remarkable life is held
in our collection as it is,
by the way, for the unbroken
line of monarchs before.
But thank you for the question.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden:
That is lovely.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Very, very
moving still to reflect on that.
Other questions.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Maybe a
microphone just so people can.
>> Hi, Sir Keating.
Very nice to meet you.
I have a question that is not so
relevant to your library career.
It's relating to your
education at Oxford.
So you read
the classics there.
So I was wondering,
how did you get there?
And what did you learn and
what that kind of education,
how that kind of education
contribute to your
future career? Thank you.
>> Sir Roly Keating:
So it's a lovely question
and I won't give a long
answer, but I mean, I will.
It was partly going for it was
a kind of personal passion.
Maybe I'd had a teacher who'd
inspired me, and I'd rather
fallen a little bit for the
ancient Greek language.
I'm not a very good linguist,
but there was something about
the language I loved, and I
knew I was going to do a
humanities degree of some kind.
And maybe an English degree.
I reflect, I would probably,
and I do read English literature
all the time. I would never
otherwise immerse myself in some
of those great texts or get the
chance to, I don't know, to read
the Odyssey in the
original language.
What a privilege that was.
And I did do that. So everyone
who does, even that degree,
I think gets something
different out of it.
For me, it was probably diving
deeply into maybe just a handful
of writers and spending time
with them, whether it was the
poet Horace or Homer or Pindar
and so on, and getting a deep
sense of maybe an era of
history that I cared about.
But as I was jokingly saying
earlier on, I don't think
I was thinking of a
career when I did it,
and maybe I would
never condemn someone,
actually, for doing a
degree that does lead
directly to a career
that's a very proper and
sensible thing to do.
But I suppose if I do look back
on it retrospectively in a less
flippant way, at the very least
it as a particular course of
study, and I hope people still
occasionally get the chance to
do a degree like that.
It does at least present an
interesting combination of maybe
different sides of the brain.
You have to be quite meticulous
on some of the linguistic or
translation side of it, but
also for me, it opened up a
world of literature and the
life of creativity and the
imagination that is meaningful
for me, and I guess has
influenced some of the work
I've tried to do in television
or in the storytelling that
we do at the library.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: And
our teams have spent two days
working together and
learning from each other.
And I just want to thank you
for your support and friendship.
We're still going to continue
our friendly rivalry.
>> You bet.
>> Okay.
We're not going to stop there.
But we also are going to
continue our partnership.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Definitely.
>> Dr: Carla Hayden: Thank you.
>> Sir Roly Keating: Thank you.
That was wonderful
[Applause]