(applause)
>> Aslihan Bulut:
Thank you. Good afternoon
distinguished guests and 
colleagues.
And thank you for joining the 
Library of Congress and the
United States Supreme 
Court for the
2025 Supreme Court Fellows
Program lecture.
My name is Aslihan Bulut, 
and I have the honor of serving
as the Law Librarian of 
Congress.
It is my pleasure to send 
greetings from the beautiful
Coolidge Auditorium of the 
Library of Congress,
Jefferson Building, 
to both our in-person audience
and all of you watching us 
online.
Let me just say a couple of 
words about the Law Library of
Congress and this wonderful 
event today.
The Law Library of Congress 
serves as a custodian of a legal
and legislative collection of 
nearly 3 million items from all
countries and legal systems 
around the world.
Our skilled staff, 
attorneys, and law librarians
provide research assistance and
reference services on 
U.S. federal
and state legal issues, 
and our foreign law specialists
are a diverse group of foreign 
trained attorneys who provide
foreign, comparative, 
and international legal research
and analysis to all three 
branches of government.
Our team is responsible for 
developing the collection for
more than 300 legal systems, 
including foreign and
international jurisdictions, 
as well as the U.S. states and
territories in all formats.
Each month, the Law Library 
hosts free webinars on topics
concerning U.S. as well as 
foreign,
international, and comparative 
law.
We invite you to sign up for 
these webinars on our website
law.gov, which is very easy to 
remember.
(laughing)
We are so honored to have 
Justice Jackson with us
at the Library of Congress.
And I want to mention that our 
Manuscripts Division contains
the papers of many Supreme Court
justices,
and the Law Library of Congress 
is a repository for the Supreme
Court records and briefs, 
a collection that we are very
excited to have just embarked on 
digitizing.
So after the event today,
we invite you to return to
explore these collections.
At this time, I would ask that 
you please silence your cell
phones and refrain from taking 
any photos or video recordings
of the event. And with that, 
I would like to introduce the
counselor to the Chief Justice 
of the Supreme Court of the
United States, 
Judge Robert M Dow Jr.
(applause)
>> Robert M. Dow:
Well, I want to start by
thanking Aslihan and Doctor
Hayden and everybody at the
Library of Congress for hosting
the 2025 Supreme Court Fellows
Program Lecture in this
magnificent venue.
As the Executive Director of the 
Supreme Court Fellows Program,
it is my honor to tell you a 
little bit about what we do.
So the fellows program began
under Chief Justice 
Warren Burger.
This is its 52nd year.
The program offers mid-career 
professionals,
recent law school graduates, 
and doctoral degree holders from
law and political science an 
opportunity to broaden their
understanding of the judicial 
system through exposure to
federal court administration.
The Supreme Court Fellows
Commission selects four talented
individuals to work for one of 
four federal judicial agencies
for a year long appointment here
in Washington, D.C.
The four agencies are the 
Supreme Court of the United
States, the Administrative 
Office of the U.S. courts,
the Federal Judicial Center, 
and the U.S. Sentencing
Commission. All of our fellows 
learn something about judicial
administration, policy 
development,
and education. We hope that they 
will be inspired to consider
staying in the branch or 
returning to us someday,
as many of them have.
Fellows also benefit from time 
to study and write,
and have a vantage point from 
which to develop an academic
research agenda as well.
I would like to say I see many 
of our fellows alumni in the
audience, but I can't see 
anything in these lights.
But I know you're here and thank
you for coming back.
I also want to extend a special 
welcome to all my new friends in
the second row here, 
who are the finalists for our 20
2526 fellows class. And they're
 all in attendance today.
So today and tomorrow are a
special celebration for our
current fellows class.
Every class of fellows is 
unique,
and this year's class is 
composed of extremely talented
lawyers. It's been a joy for all
of us to get to know them this
year. So let me tell you a 
little bit more about each of
them. Elizabeth Adler is the 
fellow assigned to the U.S.
Sentencing Commission, 
the agency responsible for the
establishment of sentencing 
policies and practices for the
federal courts. Elizabeth came 
to us from the U.S. Court of
Appeals from the Sixth Circuit, 
where she clerked for Judge Eric
Clay. She previously was in
private practice in 
Washington, D.C.
She earned her bachelor's 
degree with honors and
leadership in public policy and 
a J.D.
from the University of Virginia,
where she served as the online
development editor of the
Virginia Law Review.
Joshua Blecher Cohen is the 
fellow assigned to the Supreme
Court of the United States, 
where he serves in the office of
the counselor to the Chief 
Justice.
Josh joined the program from the
U.S. Court of Appeals for the
Ninth Circuit, where he clerked 
for Judge Marsha Berzon.
He previously clerked for Judge 
Myron Thompson in the United
States District Court for the 
Middle District of Alabama.
He also was a scholar in
residence right here at the Law
Library of Congress.
So he's returning back home this 
afternoon.
And he's also had some time as a 
public interest lawyer.
He earned an A.B.
magna cum laude in Philosophy 
and Classics from Harvard
College and MST, 
with Distinction in Ancient
Philosophy from the University 
of Oxford,
and a J.D. from the Yale Law 
School,
where he was managing editor of 
the Yale Law Journal.
Hope Forsyth is the fellow 
assigned to the Administrative
Office of the United States 
Courts,
which is the central support 
agency for the judicial branch.
Hope joined the program from the 
United States District Court for
the northern, Eastern, 
and Western Districts of
Oklahoma. So I suspect she can 
name all the counties in that
fine state where she clerked for 
Judge John Hale.
She was previously in private 
practice in Tulsa,
Oklahoma. She's earned a B.A., 
magna cum laude in communication
in the honors program and a 
J.D.,
both from the University of 
Tulsa,
where she was executive editor 
of the Tulsa Law Review.
Hope also has an LLM from the 
Pepperdine University Caruso
School of Law. Samantha Smith is 
the fellow assigned to the
Federal Judicial Center, 
which is the education and
Education and research agency 
for the federal courts. Samantha
joined the program from the 
United States District Court for
the Middle District of 
Tennessee,
where she clerked for Judge Eli 
Richardson.
I'm sure Judge Richardson is 
right in front of me,
but I can't see him.
She was previously in private 
practice in Washington, D.C.,
as well. She earned both a B.A.
cum laude in economics and 
history and bioethics and
Organizational Leadership in the 
Honors program,
and a J.D. from Vanderbilt 
University,
where she was editor in chief of
the Vanderbilt Journal of
Transnational Law.
Elizabeth, Josh, 
Hope and Sam, you all have
brought great joy and energy 
into our lives this year,
for which we are most grateful.
We appreciate your efforts thus 
far,
and look forward to seeing what 
you will accomplish in the
remainder of your fellowship 
term.
In addition to introducing the 
current class of fellows to you,
I also have the distinct honor 
of introducing our esteemed
speakers. Judge Carlton Reeves 
received his J.D.
from the University of Virginia 
Law School in 1989,
and his BA magna cum laude from 
Jackson State University in
1986. Judge Reeves has served as
the United States District Judge
for the Southern District of 
Mississippi since 2010.
Judge Reeves was previously a 
partner at Pigott,
Reeves, Johnson and Miner, 
P.A.
he was also chief of the Civil 
Division for the U.S.
Attorney's Office in the 
Southern District of
Mississippi. Worked also at 
Phelps,
Dunbar, and as a staff attorney 
for the Supreme Court of
Mississippi. After he served as 
a law clerk for Justice Reuben
Anderson of the Mississippi 
Supreme Court.
Currently, Judge Reeves is the 
chair of the U.S. Sentencing
Commission and a commissioner on
the Supreme Court Fellows
Commission. Justice Ketanji 
Brown Jackson received an A.B.
magna cum laude, 
from Harvard Radcliffe College
in 1992 and a J.D., 
cum laude, from the Harvard Law
School in 1996. She served as a 
law clerk for judge Patty Sarris
on the district Court in the 
District of District of
Massachusetts for Bruce, 
for Judge Bruce Selya of the U.S.
District Court for the First 
First Circuit,
and for Justice Stephen Breyer 
at the Supreme Court during the
1999 term. After three years in 
private practice,
Justice Jackson worked as an 
attorney at the U.S. Sentencing
Commission from 2003 to 2005.
From 2005 to 2007, 
she served as an assistant
federal defender in Washington, 
D.C.,
and from 2007 to 2010 she was in
private practice.
She served as vice chair and 
commissioner on the U.S.
Sentencing Commission from 2010 
to 2014.
In 2012, President Obama 
nominated her to the U.S. District
Court for the District of 
Columbia,
where she served from 2013 to 
2021.
She was appointed to the 
Defenders Services Committee and
the Judicial Conference in 2017 
and significantly,
for today's purposes, 
she also was a Supreme Court
Fellows Commissioner starting in
2019.
President Biden sent her on to 
higher callings as a judge on
the district court. District of 
Columbia Court of Appeals in
2021, and then to be an 
associate justice on the Supreme
Court in 2022. She took her seat 
on June 20th June 30th of 2022,
succeeding her former boss, 
Justice Breyer.
Please join me in welcoming two 
of my favorite people for what
I'm sure will be a fun and far 
ranging conversation.
(applause)
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you very much.
You're probably wondering what 
I'm doing here at the podium.
But I like to start these 
sessions with a little bit of an
excerpt from my recent book, 
a memoir that I wrote,
because it gives you some idea 
of who I am and the background
that brings me here today.
This is from the preface.
It begins. "I had to keep 
reminding myself this moment was
real. It was just before noon on
the 30th day of June 2022,
and I was standing in front of a 
plain wooden door that would
soon open into the Grand West 
Conference room of the Supreme
Court of the United States.
My family was already inside my 
husband Patrick,
our daughters, Talia and Leila, 
and my parents,
Johnny and Ellery Brown, 
were there among the family
members and friends who had 
gathered to witness my historic
swearing in. My heart was 
hammering so loudly that I
wondered if the two black robed 
men standing on either side of
me, Chief Justice John G.
Roberts Jr. and retiring
associate Justice Stephen G.
Breyer could hear it, too.
Only two hours before they and 
the other seven justices of the
Supreme Court had issued their 
final decision of the 20 2122
term. Justice Breyer, 
a pragmatic consensus builder,
was now stepping down from that 
August body,
having been privileged to serve 
as one of his law clerks more
than two decades before.
I would be stepping up in his 
place.
I drew a deep breath to steady 
myself as the door in front of
us swung wide, and a court 
officer stepped aside to allow
our passage into the room.
Suddenly, blinded by bright 
lights,
I took a moment to understand 
that the source was a bank of
video cameras set up to record 
the ceremony.
As my eyes adjusted and I 
processed into the chamber
behind the two justices.
I felt heartened by the sight of
my loved ones beaming at me from
rows of chairs at the right side 
of the room.
Chief Justice Roberts began by 
warmly welcoming those present.
Then he turned toward me, 
now assuming a more ceremonial
air, 'Are you prepared 
to take the oath?'
He said, his tone more formal 
than it had been a moment
before. 'I am,' I responded in a
voice that sounded firmer than I
felt. Patrick positioned himself 
between Chief Justice Roberts
and me and held out a stack of 
two Bibles.
'Please raise your right hand,'
the Chief Justice said, 
and I did so briskly,
simultaneously resting my left 
palm on the pair of holy books.
On top was our ancient Jackson 
family Bible.
Its brittle pages protected by 
the black leather binding that
Patrick had had the foresight to 
get refurbished.
In 2013, when I'd been appointed 
to the U.S. District Court in
Washington, D.C. I had sworn 
every oath since then on this
cherished family Bible, 
just as I would now swear the
constitutional oath to be 
administered by Chief Justice
Roberts, followed by the 
judicial oath to be given to me
by Associate Justice Breyer, 
nominated by
President Joe Biden
four months earlier.
I, the daughter of African 
American parents who had come of
age in the segregated South 
during the 1950s and 1960s,
would become the 116th justice 
and the first black woman to sit
on the Supreme Court in its 233 
year history.
These details made the other 
sacred volume on which I would
swear my historic oath
doubly significant.
Tucked beneath our family's holy
book was the Harlan Bible,
donated to the court in 1906 by 
Associate Justice John Marshall
Harlan. This tome had been used 
for the oath taking by every
Supreme Court appointee since 
then.
Each new justice had also signed 
one of the book's fly leaves
after being sworn in.
When the court curator brought 
the Bible to me in my temporary
chambers later that afternoon so 
that I could add my own
signature to the venerated roll.
I thought about the justices of 
Harlan's era,
who had collectively decided, 
in the Plessy versus Ferguson
opinion that state laws 
mandating the separation of
people by race did not violate 
the 14th Amendment of the
Constitution, so long as the 
separate facilities were equal.
Harlan had been the sole 
dissenter in the notorious 1896
case. And now here I was, 
affixing my signature to his
Bible in black fountain pen ink.
Only one generation after my 
mother and father had
experienced the spirit crushing 
effects of racial segregation in
housing, schooling, 
and transportation while growing
up in Florida. Their daughter 
was standing on the threshold of
history, the embodiment of our 
ancestors dreams,
ascending to a position that 
Justice Harlan and his
colleagues likely never imagined
possible for someone like me.
But if Justice Harlan and his 
contemporaries could not have
pictured this moment, 
my family and I,
and indeed most of America, 
were fully cognizant of
cognizant of the significance of
my nomination and confirmation
to our nation's highest court.
In subsequent conversations with
people across the country,
I learned that I had been 
carried on a million prayers
lifted up on my behalf since my 
nomination.
I also fielded an avalanche of 
invitations to speak or appear
in person, as excited 
well-wishers wanted to know my
story in whatever form or 
fashion I might be willing to
tell it. How was it, 
they wondered,
that someone with such an 
unusual name,
and from such an unconventional 
background,
came to stand in such an 
unprecedented place,
swearing an oath on two stacked 
Bibles that symbolized how far
our nation had traveled.
Mine has been an unlikely 
journey in many respects,"
and of course, my new book is 
about that journey.
I appreciate your attention here
this afternoon
as we discuss it. Thank you.
(applause)
>> Carlton Reeves: The end.
(laughing)
Justice Jackson, 
we can't thank you enough
for sharing your story...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Thank you.
>> Carlton Reeves: 
...with people all across
this country and all
across this world.
You talk about in the preface, 
you were talking about
ancestors. And I know just a few 
pages later,
you talk about Dred Scott.
You mentioned it. You mentioned 
Plessy versus Ferguson again,
the Voting Rights Act and all of 
those things,
Martin Luther King's I Have a 
Dream speech,
I believe. You mentioned all of 
those things,
from segregation to everything 
else.
Why is that important to you to 
mention that history?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Oh my
 goodness. Well, first of all,
let me just say thank you all 
for inviting me to do this
presentation here today to be 
once again a part of the Supreme
Court Fellows program.
I actually started writing
this book within a few weeks of
my confirmation in 2022, 
because I really felt such
gratitude for having gotten 
through that process.
Some of you may have seen the 
confirmation hearing process.
It was very arduous and I felt 
like I my success was not mine
alone, that there were so many 
people who had contributed,
who had invested in me and I 
wanted to pay tribute to them.
And it really started when I 
looked at my story.
How did I get to be where I was?
It started well before me, 
with the people who had opened
the doors that allowed me to 
walk through them to get to this
point. So in the book, 
I talk about,
you know, the history of African 
Americans in this country.
And then I focus in on my 
grandparents,
who grew up in rural Georgia and 
moved to Miami,
Florida, in the 1930s to find 
opportunities where there were
none back in the time when they 
were raised.
And there, even though they 
never had formal schooling
themselves, their interest in 
ensuring that their children got
an education and that the 
conditions were laid for
improving the lives of our 
family,
made all the difference.
So I wanted to tell that story.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And you've told it incredibly.
This is a love story.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
It's a love in many, many, ways.
A lot of people you talk about 
and things that have impacted
your life and the people 
who have poured into you.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And so tell us about Ellery.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Ellery Brown. (laughs)
Well 
first let me say Ellery and
Johnny Brown are my parents.
I read from the preface because 
I wanted you to get a sense of
who the people are. And they 
were incredible people.
They grew up in Miami, 
Florida,
during a time of racial 
segregation.
There were restrictions and 
limitations on their ability to
live freely and to fulfill their 
dreams.
So when I was born, 
I was born in September of 1970,
and in my sessions when I talk 
with people about my book,
I emphasize that 1970 cannot be 
overstated in terms of its
significance to the trajectory 
of my life.
And that's because 1970 was 
within a few years of the Civil
Rights Act, the Voting Rights 
Act,
and the end of Jim Crow 
segregation in this country.
And the difference that it made 
between my ability to progress
and proceed and to do everything 
that I wanted to do and that of
the people in my family before 
me,
was enormous. What it meant in 
practical terms,
first of all, my parents went to 
historically black colleges and
universities, as one did and 
does.
And they decided in 1967, 
1968,
when they finished school, 
to move to Washington, D.C.,
D.C., because that's where a 
lot of I'm finding out through
this book African Americans 
came.
This was the place that was the 
source of their freedom.
So they moved to Washington, 
D.C. and I'm born here.
My parents are public school 
teachers at the time.
And my father decided that he 
wanted to go back to law school.
He was a history teacher at 
Ballou,
which is a public school here.
And after taking his kids 
to,
you know, the Capitol and the 
court and seeing all the things
he said, maybe I want to go to 
law school.
So when I was three years old, 
he applied and got into the
University of Miami, 
which is where both of my
parents were from, 
and we moved back there.
And so that's why I grew up in 
Miami.
But the the the point, 
I think,
is that my parents really saw my
birth and the sort of opening of
society for African Americans as 
their opportunity to make happen
all the dreams that had been 
deferred for them.
And so if there were piano 
lessons,
I was in the piano lessons, 
if there was swimming lessons,
I was in the swimming lessons. I 
was,
you know, I can't I must have
been five or six when 
my mother put
me in the Miami-Dade Youth Fair.
Miami-dade County Youth Fair. 
And I was standing on the stage
and saying a poem.
And she just, every
activity she wanted me to
have to do. And it was also a 
time in which Miami, Florida,
was really very interested,
as many places in the South were
at that moment in opening up to
people who had previously been 
excluded.
So I went to a wonderful public
high school with a lot of
different people.
We played together.
We worked together.
It was a terrific time
for young people in this
country.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Thank you.
And 1970 is special 
to me as well.
We were talking about that 
earlier.
It was in 1970 that the public 
schools in Mississippi were
forced to integrate 16 years 
after Brown.
My class was the first class in 
Yazoo City.
I knew I was going to get it 
out.
(laughing)
To start first grade together in
an integrated environment,
just like in all 82 counties 
across the state,
because of a decision from our 
Supreme Court,
Alexander versus Holmes told 
Mississippi integrate now.
So it's so refreshing to hear 
you talk about that history.
Talk about Ellery Brown, 
talk about Johnny Brown.
Talk about your grandmothers,
and Mama Queenie and
I'm gonna throw this in, too.
Jackson State University is an 
HBCU.
So speech and debate 
is something that you did
growing up, you said your mother
put you in everything.
And I think your inaugural poem
at that exposition 
was "For My People."
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
"For My People" Margaret Walker.
For my people everywhere 
singing their slave songs
repeatedly, their dirges and 
their ditties and their blues
and jubilees. I memorized this
whole poem as a little girl.
And years later, 
I asked my mom why?
Why that poem? Margaret Walker 
was a poetess,
a writer in the 40s, 50s.
And my mother had learned about 
that poem when she went to
college and just loved the 
message and wanted her daughter
to grow up with a feeling of 
confidence and pride in who I
am. My parents gave me an 
African name intentionally.
It means lovely one, 
because they were very
interested in ensuring that in a 
society that,
at least for them, 
had been very closed off,
very not welcoming to African 
Americans.
They wanted their daughter to 
grow up with pride.
And so they did all of these 
things intentionally.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And their daughter
has grown with much pride.
Margaret Walker Alexander,
Professor Jackson State University.
(laughing)
Jubilee for my people.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
It is just so refreshing to hear
you talk about that side of
your story, that side of the 
things that we went through.
So I know speech and debate 
was very important to you.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
So important. I try to get high
school kids whenever I can.
I talk to a lot of young people 
and I say,
"What are you doing for your 
extracurriculars? Have you
thought about speech 
and debate?"
Because it was just so wonderful
as a skill building exercise.
And in my school, 
I went to a big public
high school in Miami, 
Florida, and we had a very
committed debate coach who was 
flamboyant and larger than life.
She was fantastic and she really 
wanted her kids to do well in
competitive forensics is what 
the kind of category of speech
and debate is called.
And we would sell bagels and 
candy and do all of these things
to raise money to travel.
And we got to travel around on 
buses in our in our state,
and then every once in a while 
we would go on a national
tournament, fly somewhere, 
and I credit her with so much of
what happens to me later in life 
because,
you know, she taught me to 
reason.
She taught me to write.
She taught me to believe in 
myself.
She could see something in me 
and my ability to do public
speaking that I think she really 
wanted to nurture.
She poured into me in a lot 
of ways,
and she took me to Harvard.
I didn't know anything about 
Harvard. I had never really even
heard of it in any meaningful 
sense.
But they had a debate 
tournament,
in February for a kid from 
Miami.
A little rough, 
but we went several years
in a row, and when I was there, 
I thought,
well, this seems like a nice 
school.
So I put it on my list of 
schools
to apply to and I got in.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Wow. You mentioned
the speech and debate.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
You did not mention that
you were like a world class 
person. You won many...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I won many tournaments.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Many, many.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: 
Yes I did. Well,
I was in it for a long time.
Mrs. Berger came to the junior 
high.
At that time we had junior high 
and high school.
Some of you might remember this 
junior high was seventh,
eighth and ninth grade.
And then high school was 10th, 
11th and 12th. So when I was in
eighth grade, Mrs. Berger 
brought
the Miami Palmetto Senior 
High kids over
to the junior high and they did
a little thing,
and they wanted to recruit 
junior high kids to be a part of
the program so that there's 
enough time to really practice
and learn how to do it.
You really do need a few years.
And my friend Stephen and I 
signed up,
and we used to go over to the 
high school early in the
morning. That's how I knew I 
really liked it,
because you had to be there at 
like 7:30 or something in
high school. 
But I started as a ninth grader,
and so by the time I got to be a 
senior, I was pretty good.
>> Carlton Reeves:
I mean, but I've been
involved in a lot of things for
a long time and didn't come in 
first place.
(laughing)
So I appreciate the modesty.
So you mentioned that
Fran Berger is your debate 
coach's name,
and you speak eloquently 
about her throughout the book.
And how much impact she had.
And you did get into Harvard?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: I did.
Can I tell the story about...
>> Carlton Reeves:
Please tell the story.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
So my grandmother,
my mother's mother, was really
the kind of matriarch 
of our family.
Very religious, but not 
educated beyond just
grade school. 
And she and my grandfather
really worked hard in a lot of 
day laboring types of jobs to
put their kids through college, 
but her worldview was HBCUs.
So when I got into Harvard, 
I had told her that I was
thinking about going to school 
in Washington, D.C.,
and then I wanted to go to 
Georgetown or,
you know, wanted to go to 
school in D.C..
I get into Harvard and I go, 
"Grandma, grandma, guess what?
I got into Harvard."
And she said, "Oh, Howard, 
baby, that's so wonderful."
(laughing)
And I said, "No, 
no, grandma. I know
I said I wanted to go to 
Washington, D.C.,
but this school is in 
Massachusetts and it's a really
good school." And she said, 
"Oh, well,
I guess that Harvard is a 
perfectly good school,
too." And she never quite 
got it into her mind that I went
to Harvard rather than Howard.
>> Carlton Reeves: Yeah. Well, 
Howard is an excellent...
But let's talk about your time 
at Harvard and what was,
some of the things that you
got involved in there 
and the things that have helped
shape who you are now.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Well, 
it's like the story of my life.
It's a lot of the people that 
you meet that really make the
difference in terms of helping 
you in your life in so many
different ways. 
When I first got to Harvard,
it was really hard.
Not hard academically, 
but hard to adjust
to a totally
different environment.
I was a big public school kid 
from warm Florida.
Not used to New England.
The weather, 
the way of being.
I was meeting people like my 
eventual husband who had gone
to prep school in New England.
And it was just a completely 
different animal.
And I remember, 
my birthday's in September,
and I turned 18 within a couple 
of weeks of starting college
that my freshman year.
And I was so depressed because 
here I was in this new
environment, really far from 
home.
Birthdays had been a big thing 
in my extended family,
so this was the first time I'm 
away from my family on my
birthday. And I just was having 
a hard time at the beginning.
And I tell the story in the book 
that I have also told publicly
about around this time, 
walking through the yard,
Harvard Yard in a really 
kind of depressed state.
And I'm on the path and I cross
a Black woman who I don't 
know.
And she leans over and says,
"Persevere,"
and keeps going. And I was like,
and I didn't think 
a whole lot about
it until later when I got a 
letter.
My aunt was a missionary
traveling all around Haiti,
all sorts of places.
She wrote me a letter for my 
birthday and she said something
to the effect of, 
"Please remember that
God has angels all around you 
to protect you."
So I thought to myself, 
I wonder,
I wonder if that lady was an 
angel.
(laughing)
>> Carlton Reeves:
Yeah, she was.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
She was.
>> Carlton Reeves:
She was...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: And it
helped to sort of shore me up,
you know, right after that, 
I started feeling like I was
better able to understand what 
was happening in some of my
early classes. I did well, 
and I kind of got my footing.
And then I met my roommates who 
turned out to be my lifelong
sisters. I have one brother, 
no sisters,
but I met these women and we 
bonded, and that really helped.
And then I met my now 
husband,
then boyfriend. So this is a 
love story
that I talk about 
in the book, but...
>> Carlton Reeves:
Oh, we're going to talk about it
here too, because,
boy, it is great reading.
But you 
mentioned your sisters...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
...because you did grow up
with (inaudible) and really,
you were much older than her.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
We were almost ten years apart.
So when I went off to Harvard 
at 18,
he was eight, nine years old.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Yeah, he was just a little man.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Exactly. So it was that.
>> Carlton Reeves:
What was that relationship
finding those sisters?
Because that's incredible.
I mean, that's important
for your development?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes. No,
it was just wonderful. I mean, 
I try to tell young people that
if you can find people
who get you and who support you,
it makes all the difference.
You know, I saw that through the
confirmation process.
You know, I was very, 
very focused on memorizing the
things I had to memorize and 
meeting the senators and doing
all the stuff. And I learned 
almost after the fact that my
sisters, these women who are 
now,
you know, professors at law 
schools and working in high
level legal positions, 
took time off from their work
and were like doing interviews.
And we're like out there 
stumping for my confirmation,
which I didn't even know.
So it was really just wonderful 
to have that kind of support.
>> Carlton Reeves:
You were also involved
in the Black Student 
Association, I think.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: 
I was. I was.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Why?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Why?
>> Carlton Reeves:
Why?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Well, 
I think it goes back to my
saying that when you arrive in a
new environment,
sometimes helps to find the 
familiar in order to feel
comfortable enough to get to 
where you can focus and do the
work that you need to do.
And so I thought having a 
community,
feeling like I could, 
find people who were who had
similar background experiences, 
and who were continuing to
experience the world in a
similar way was very 
helpful for me.
>> Carlton Reeves: You also 
involved
in common casting?
I believe...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I did, I did.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Tell us a little bit about that
before we get to Patrick,
because we get into Patrick.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh my goodness.
So I had done, as you said,
I had done well in speech and 
debate in high school.
So I decided to do something 
different in college.
I decided to do theater and 
I did a bunch of different
shows, and I was in a drama 
class with some famous people.
I had a class once where
I was there with Matt Damon, 
who at that time...
>> Carlton Reeves:
Well, y'all know him.
(laughing)
Does somebody know that guy?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Well, it was just interesting
because it was very memorable.
He was already sort of doing 
community theater and a little
well-known, and everybody knew 
he wanted to be an actor.
He was a year ahead of me, 
and we're in this drama class
together. And the scene, 
the professor pairs us together
for a scene. And I think it was 
something like something really
boring, like waiting for Godot 
or something where you're just
sitting on the stage. 
And I do my little scene and he
does the scene, 
but he's like,
in almost semi-professional 
theater right now,
so this is this is nothing for 
him.
And when it's over, 
the professor says,
"Ketanji, you were very good.
Matt, we'll talk."
(laughing)
And I remember 
thinking I was better
than Matt Damon in a scene.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And you still are.
(laughing)
So when I've been reading up 
on you, watching you and stuff,
and I think at some point 
in time,
a whole bunch of people already 
said that you were going to be
on the Supreme Court before you 
even got there,
but you said you wanted to be
a justice who also performed.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I did. Well, because,
part of what I did in speech
and debate in high school, 
I did original oratory was my
main activity, which is writing 
your own speeches and delivering
them, memorizing them and 
delivering them.
But I also did some of the other
speaking events to include
dramatic interpretation and 
humorous interpretation,
which are events that are like,
if anybody's seen 
Anna Deavere Smith's
one woman show where she 
plays all the characters.
They're kind of like that, 
and I enjoyed it,
and I was good at it. And
so I thought,
I'm going to do theater in 
college.
So when I applied to college, 
I said to the admissions
committee, I really need to go 
to Harvard because it will help
me to fulfill my dream of being 
the first African American
Supreme Court justice to appear 
on a Broadway stage.
(laughing)
>> Carlton Reeves:
Check. You've done it right.
Check that off the list. You did 
that too, right?
So now it's Patrick's turn. 
Tell me.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
So I alluded a little bit
ago to Patrick's background.
My husband now husband, 
then friend, friend on campus,
is I think we'd call 
him a Boston Brahmin.
He's from a family that has 
been in the area since before
the Mayflower. He's seventh 
generation Harvard.
And very, very different 
than I am.
But we both take this class.
He's a year ahead of me in age,
and we both take a class called 
The Changing Concept of Race in
America. It's a historical 
study.
It's a core class that you have 
to take.
And I'm a sophomore.
He's a junior, and we end up 
kind of sitting near each other.
He's tapping me on the shoulder.
He's kind of saying 
little things to
me. And I started to think, 
oh, this guy's kind of cute, you
know. And we were chatting 
it up and then I notice,
you know, this class is Monday, 
Wednesday, Friday. I notice on
Tuesday and Thursday I have a 
government class,
and I see him in the government 
class and he's not saying
anything to me at all.
At all. And I'm waving down the 
road and you know,
nothing. So I was like, 
this is weird.
So I say to my girlfriends, 
my sisters,
what's going on with this? And 
they're like, leave him alone.
He's obviously crazy.
They're like,
cut him off. So I say, 
no, I'm going to confront him.
I'm going to confront him on one
of the friendly days.
So on one of the friendly days, 
I say to him,
"Why don't you talk to talk to 
me in our government class?"
And he says, "I'm not taking a 
government class."
And I say, "Yes, you are.
I see you in the government 
class."
And then he goes, 
oh, you must be talking about my
identical twin brother, 
William."
Which is true. He has an 
identical twin brother.
And so we met in this very weird
way. But that was fun.
>> Carlton Reeves:
That was fun. And I know those
sisters had more to say about
than...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Yes,
they did. They did.
But no, at least he wasn't
crazy. We figured that out.
No. And we've been together.
We've been married.
Jeez. Well, we dated for seven 
years.
Seven and a half years before we 
got married. And we've been
married for 28 years.
So, long time.
(applause)
>> Carlton Reeves:
There's a point in the book
where you talk about him talking
to your parents, 
asking for your hand in
marriage, you know, talking.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Well, one of the things is it's
so interesting because we come
from these very, 
very different backgrounds, but
the values are very similar,
and so there's overlap.
So his family is sort of 
traditional.
My family sort of traditional.
He knew that if he was going to 
propose,
he wanted to have, 
you know, buy in from the
families. And he actually flew 
down to Miami without my
knowledge. It was very sweet. My 
husband is a doctor and he is
he's a surgeon. And he went 
through the whole matching
process for getting into 
residency post medical school.
And during that process, 
he applied to hospitals
in Miami, to Jackson, in Miami,
among other hospitals.
And I thought it was kind of odd
because he had never said he
wanted to go to Miami.
But he actually did 
that because he wanted the
opportunity to be with my
parents alone,
without me there.
And I learned later that during 
that time he was very nervous.
But he goes to my parents house 
and sits down with them and
says, "I love your daughter 
and I want to marry her."
And it was a little tense.
(laughing)
At least at the beginning, 
at least at the beginning. I
mean, my parents... 
we had dated for a long time,
so my parents had gotten to know 
him,
had met his family, 
liked him a great deal,
but this was a big step.
I mean, this was 1996, 
so it's not today.
This was a while ago, 
and interracial marriages were
not as common as they are right 
now.
And again, my parents were very 
proud of their African American
heritage. And so my dad said 
something to the effect of,
well, you know, 
if this had been,
you know, when I was a young 
man,
you probably wouldn't be in my 
house,
not to mention asking for my 
daughter's hand in marriage.
But I've seen how you 
treat her,
and I know that you love her.
And so you have my support.
>> Carlton Reeves:
He also made the point
of with Patrick that 
you understand
you married a Black woman.
You're going to have Black 
children.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves: You're 
going to face discrimination.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes. That's right.
And Patrick was willing to
acknowledge that and to accept 
it.
And what that meant for us 
teaching and raising our
daughters to be proud of who 
they are.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And your mom had two questions.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
My mom had two questions.
My mom said very little until 
she got to the point of saying
two things. One, 
do you love my daughter?
Just confirming. And the other,
 do you believe in God?
Those were the two questions. 
And once he affirmed both,
she said, "You have 
my blessing."
>> Carlton Reeves:
Yeah. And you talk about
faith throughout the book.
You talk about those prayer 
warriors,
your grandmother. You talk about
your Aunt Carolyn,
who again poured those prayers
over you all those years.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: 
That's right.
>> Carlton Reeves: 
Let's transition from
Harvard to about the time of
graduation. Well, 
no, you're I guess your junior
year, you decided to work for a
public defender 
sort of services.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: I did.
So everybody's looking
their junior year. What am I 
going to write my thesis about?
What am I going to do for my 
career?
I had wanted to be a lawyer ever
since my dad was a lawyer.
Went to law school.
So that wasn't the issue.
But I thought it would be nice 
to get a little bit of
experience in a different 
environment.
And I took a summer internship 
at what was then very quite new,
a program called the 
Neighborhood Defender Service of
Harlem, which is part of the 
Vera Institute of Justice
in New York City. 
And I had never
really been to New York City
before, never spent any time 
there, lived in Harlem.
And it was really just an 
amazing eye opening experience
for me. It was totally 
different.
>> Carlton Reeves: In fact, this
is what you said about it.
"I had never experienced 
anything as devastating,
instructive or empowering as 
working to bring justice to a
community that had so little.
I understood for the first time 
the awesome power of the law to
heal or to hurt people."
How have you...
And I know 
we're just in your junior year
now. We haven't even gotten to 
law school and all that.
But as a judge, how have 
you as a person,
as a judge, how have you tried 
to use the law
as a healing force?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Well, I mean,
just from that experience on,
which was such an eye 
opening time for me,
I got to really understand how 
the law impacts people.
Real people
in their daily lives.
And I think I've carried that 
knowledge
with me throughout the 
various positions that I've had.
I was fortunate to be appointed 
as a district judge.
And so, for the longest period 
of time so far in my career,
I had trials, I sentenced 
people,
I did very important work of 
a district judge,
actually interfacing with the 
people in the community who
lives are being affected.
Then I was on the Court of 
Appeals,
and now I'm on the Supreme 
Court.
And I think all of those 
experiences,
matter in terms of how I 
look at the law
and how I do my work.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And before becoming a judge,
obviously you went to law
school. You decided to go to 
Harvard.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I did.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Again...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I did.
>> Carlton Reeves:
You loved it so much, I guess.
But you took a gap year.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I took a gap year
to work at Time magazine.
I like New York so much, 
I stayed in New York.
>> Carlton Reeves: So you're in 
theater, you're a journalist,
a justice. Tell us about that 
time.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh, no. That year in New York,
between college and law school,
was like one of the best years 
of my entire life.
Now, I understand it is quite 
common for college
students to take time before 
they go to law school.
But back when I went to law 
school, it was not common.
So you talked about the sisters 
that I have.
All four of us got into Harvard 
Law School,
and the three of them went 
straight,
and I took a year off, 
and I had other friends who went
straight, and I was like the 
outlier to take time off.
My father was very certain that 
I should go to law school.
I got the opportunity to go 
to Time magazine,
because I had a writing 
professor who was a mentor at
Harvard, and he said, 
you know,
"You don't want to go to law 
school. You do not want to go to
law school." He's like, 
"You're too good a writer.
You should be a journalist.
And so what I'm going to do is 
I'm going to help you to try to
find a position in journalism."
And my dad was like, 
yeah, no, you've always wanted
to be a lawyer. So the 
compromise was that I applied to
law school while I was still in 
college,
and I deferred to allow me to do
this position at Time magazine.
And it was fantastic because it 
was just a free year.
I'd already taken the LSAT, 
I'd already gotten into law
school, and it was like, 
what is better than being in
Manhattan in your 20s
with like a job.
It was just the best.
It was the best.
(laughing)
>> Carlton Reeves: So you 
then go on to Harvard.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I come back to law school.
>> Carlton Reeves:
 Go to law school,
become a member of Harvard Law
Review, which obviously is 
something of significance.
And you mastered law school.
And then there was a time where 
you started thinking about what
do I do next? And I think your 
first job out of law school was
as a law clerk.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
My first job? Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves: And it was 
with our friend, Patty Sarris.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Patty Sarris, who is fantastic.
>> Carlton Reeves: She's 
fantastic. One of those angels?
One of those angels.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I really do believe that.
I mean, there were so many 
people who I can point to who
took an interest, 
who focused, who nurtured me in
some way. Patty Sarris was 
the most fantastic mentor around
work-life balance, 
because here was a woman who was
a district judge in 
Massachusetts who had four
children. Her youngest child was
in elementary school when I
clerked for her. And to just 
watch her manage all of this
made me think, okay, 
maybe
I can have a family and do the 
kinds of things that she does.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And because I talked
to law students all the time and
sometimes they don't.
Is there any value to clerking?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh my goodness.
>> Carlton Reeves:
There you go.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh my goodness.
>> Carlton Reeves:
They don't listen to me.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh my goodness.
No, I mean 
clerking is extraordinary.
If you think about what it is 
that you do as a litigator,
if you're interested in being a 
litigator,
is your job is going to be to 
try to persuade judges to rule
in favor of your client.
And so to have had the 
opportunity to work with a judge
to see how judges process 
information,
how they think about cases, 
to help them work on their
opinions. All of that is really 
valuable information for you as
a lawyer. You take that with you 
when you go out into the field
and you are able to craft, 
I think,
more persuasive arguments, 
because you've seen it from the
side of the judge.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And the district court...
Excuse me. The district court
was not the only place you
clerked.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I clerked for Patty Sarris on
the district court. I clerked
for Bruce Selya on the First 
Circuit.
I ended up doing that because my
husband was in residency at the
Mass General, and we were trying
to get our schedules to line up.
We had a very busy time early in 
our professional careers with
the different tracks and trying 
to make sure that we were in the
same place at the same time, 
and he could only take time off
to do research. I knew I wanted 
to be in Washington, D.C.,
and after three years of 
residency,
he could take some time off to 
do research at a hospital in
D.C. So we were trying to get 
our schedules to align.
I graduated from law school 
during his first year of medical
school. Excuse me, his first 
year of residency,
and then I do the two clerkships
so that we could be in the same
place coming down to D.C.
and Bruce Selya was a wonderful 
mentor.
He was so fastidious in his 
writing.
Those of you who've read his 
opinions know that he uses these
arcane words in his opinions, 
but he's also just an
extraordinary thinker and 
writer,
and just being with him in terms
of figuring out how to construct
an opinion was amazing.
So I did that. Yeah.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And then you...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Then
we moved down to D.C.,
and I worked at a law firm for a
year when I had the call,
the call from the blue, 
which led to my being
interviewed by Justice Breyer 
for the Supreme Court clerkship.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Call from an angel.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Another angel.
Another angel in my life.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And how was that experience
clerking on the court?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: It was
amazing. I mean, it was...
I will tell you, 
just between you and me.
It was probably not my most fun 
year of clerking.
I mean, I clerked at all three 
levels, so I have a little bit
of basis of comparison.
It was so intense.
There's a reason why the Supreme 
Court clerkship is only one
year, because, as Justice 
Ginsburg apparently is quoted as
saying, it's like a treadmill 
that just gets faster and faster
and faster and faster.
At some point 
you have to get off.
And so, I mean, 
it was really an
incredible time, 
of mentorship and guidance
and learning and amazing, 
overwhelming.
After the year, I was ready 
to go. But it was great.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And you mentioned that you had
been at a law firm.
After clerking, 
you went to a boutique
sort of law back in Boston.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Well, back in Boston,
I went to the what I called the
mother ship. The big law firm.
You know, throughout my career, 
I've done the big law firm. I've
done the boutique law firm.
I've done the 
satellite office of the big law
firm. I've done all kinds of 
things. Yeah.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And by this time,
you and Patrick are married and
started thinking about...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Having a family.
Yes. When I went back to...
after my Supreme Court
clerkship, I was four months 
pregnant when I finished
my Supreme Court clerkship.
So part of the reason why it was 
so overwhelming was that near
the end, those of you who know 
the cycle of the court,
the end is like the hardest part 
because you I was morning
sickness and all of that.
And I then went to Goodwin 
Procter,
which is a big, 
big firm in Boston because,
because Patrick had to go back 
to finish the other two years of
his residency. 
and it was really,
really hard. It was really hard 
to have an have an infant in a
law firm. Big law firm dynamic.
Especially when my husband was 
in surgical residency.
So he was really not available.
So it was very much like 
single parenting with an infant.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Right. But the story talks
about how you all work together 
so incredibly.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: We try.
>> Carlton Reeves: No, you did.
You did.
And how he pitched in.
How you pitched in, 
how you all
made sacrifices for each other...
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
We did.
>> Carlton Reeves:
...during a time.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I'm very fortunate.
Really blessed to have found 
someone who is also very
self-sacrificial in terms of
wanting to give as much as he 
can to the family
to make things work.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And eventually y'all came back
to Maryland... 
to Maryland actually.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
 We came back.
We came back to Maryland.
We bought a house, 
which was great.
We landed back in Maryland.
This I put in the book.
You have if any of you are ever 
fortunate enough to write a book
about your life, 
there will be these moments that
you know stand out for you.
And one of the moments that 
stands out for me was moving
back to Maryland or moving to 
Maryland at that point
with my infant daughter.
Patrick had been invited to stay 
on another year at the Mass
General, and I took the nanny 
and said,
"We're moving to D.C."
And it was good for him, 
too,
because I didn't want to put the
pressure on him.
If we're still there, 
he's got to run home.
I wanted him to focus on 
finishing up his program.
But we move the weekend after 
they catch the sniper.
Do you remember the D.C. sniper?
And for the like 2 or 3 weeks, 
right up until our move,
we were like, are we really 
going,
are we going to take our baby 
and like go down?
And then they catch these sniper
guys and then it's like the
moving trucks are there and 
we're going down. My mother was
like, I don't know that this is 
a good idea.
But I will never forget we 
move on Halloween of that year.
I don't remember the year, 
but,
but I thought, 
you know, this will be great.
We'll hand out candy.
Nobody was doing
Halloween that year.
Nobody was doing...
>> Carlton Reeves:
Trying to work in a law firm.
Trying to work any place and 
raise and rear children is
difficult. There is a funny 
moment in your book.
At least I thought it was funny.
I know my sisters out there will 
understand.
You talk about the special 
relationship
that you had with your hair.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
With my hair. Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Well, trying to figure it out.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Trying to figure it out.
And I saw this woman who had 
this kind of hair.
So it started actually the year
that I was on the Supreme Court 
clerking,
because prior to that, 
I used to I had straight hair,
and I would spend hours on the 
weekends,
you know, the washing and the 
rolling. You sit under the
hairdryer. And I actually liked 
it.
It was like my spa day.
But when I got to the clerkship,
yeah, there was no time for 
that.
So I literally cut my hair off 
to like this during the
clerkship. And then I was trying
to figure out what I was going
to do, and I saw this woman
move back to D.C. 
who was walking
through who had what are called 
sister locks.
This is the style that I 
now wear.
And I basically chased her down 
and said,
"What is that? Where did 
you get your hair done?"
And she gave me the name of her 
stylist,
and I've been with the same 
hairstylist for 16 years now.
(laughing)
>> Carlton Reeves:
At some point in time,
part of your career took you
to the Sentencing Commission. I 
have to talk about that.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes, of course.
>> Carlton Reeves: I have to 
talk about the sentence.
You were on the staff 
there,
and ultimately you were 
appointed a commissioner.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
How has that shaped
how you do your job today,
or did any jobs after that?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: Well, 
it was certainly crucial for me,
at least with respect to my 
trial being a trial judge.
I mean, the trial judge's 
sentence
defendants. And so to have 
an understanding of the
guidelines and sentencing policy
was enormously helpful.
But I think it was just also 
really wonderful.
I mean, the commission was a 
fantastic place.
I had the wonderful fortune of 
going there as a staff member
when my daughter was young,
right after we moved 
back to D.C.
And learning about the agency.
It's an agency of the judicial 
branch.
I knew I was interested 
in criminal justice.
I was interested in criminal law
when I was in law school.
And so this obviously was 
connected to my core interests
in the law and learning about 
sentencing policy.
What's so funny is it's almost 
like,
weird that I'm in my current job 
or that I became a judge,
because ideally, 
I would like to be the world's
expert about the smallest little 
thing.
Like, I'm the kind of person who 
wants to know everything in the
world about a narrow set of 
issues.
And so the Sentencing Commission
was perfect.
It was like not criminal law.
It was sentencing.
And I was like, 
all in trying to figure it out.
So I don't know how I ended up 
being the generalist that I am
right now, but I loved my time 
on the commission and its
influence on how I think 
about many issues
I think is apparent.
>> Carlton Reeves: And 
you served as a commissioner.
You were appointed by President 
Obama, I think.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: 
I was.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And then you had to have a
confirmation hearing or Senate 
hearing for that.
And then you were 
nominated to go
to the district court.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And I think your vote
there was unanimous, I think.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I think so, yeah.
Back in the day when they do or 
they didn't really take a vote,
they just did it by unanimous 
consent. Yeah.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And you've had two confirmation
hearings since because you were
nominated by President Biden to 
be on the Court of Appeal.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
Tell us about that experience
versus working on the D.C.
circuit which is the ultimate 
circuit with respect to...
(laughing)
That's my friend Ray Lohe.
(laughing)
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: The 
Second Circuit thinks otherwise.
>> Carlton Reeves:
All right. All right.
So, tell me how you 
enjoyed that.
I mean, because you didn't stay 
there long.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I was not there long.
I was just, again, 
you know,
so many forces beyond your 
control. You don't really know.
I would say the hardest 
professional transition that I
had was from the Sentencing 
Commission to being a trial
judge, because I had been an 
appellate lawyer in practice and
appellate work, appellate 
practice is very,
very different than trial work 
and trial practice.
And so becoming a trial judge 
was like very hard.
Going from a trial 
judge to appellate judge for me
was like coming home a little
bit because I had done
appellate clerkships and I had 
worked
as an appellate judge, 
I mean, an appellate lawyer.
And so I really enjoyed my 
time in the D.C.
circuit. But you can't pick and 
choose...
>> Carlton Reeves:
You can't pick and choose.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: 
...your shot when it comes
to be elevated on.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And the angels came.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
And the angels came.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And so your next stop was,
were you sitting now?
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Yes.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And you talked in the preface
about how important that is to
the ancestors and the children 
who see you today.
You were just on the Virgin 
Islands a few weeks ago.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I was just last week in the
Virgin Islands talking to high
school students, 
talking to college students,
really trying to encourage 
people. What I think the
takeaway from my story is, 
is that anything is possible and
that if you believe in your 
ability to succeed and you put
in the work 
you know, one of the things I
said to the students is, 
nothing worth having comes
easy. And so you need to know 
that going in.
And you need to ask yourself as 
you try to figure out what you
want to do in your life, 
you have to ask yourself,
what am I willing to work for?
Because that's the thing that 
will make you successful to
aim toward the thing that you're
willing to put the effort into.
And for me, 
it has always been the law,
public speaking, 
having the opportunity to
talk to talk to all of you in 
sessions like this,
and I'm hoping that I'm 
inspiring people because if I
can do it, really, anyone can.
(laughing)
>> Carlton Reeves: Well, 
President Biden nominated you to
the Supreme Court, 
but I think President Obama got
a letter from someone, 
one of these real angels.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Oh my goodness. Yeah.
Well, back when I was on the 
district court and I had been
maybe three years in, 
having been appointed by
President Obama, 
Justice Scalia dies.
This is 2016. And my daughter at
that time,
my youngest daughter is in 
middle school,
and she comes running in.
This is maybe 3 or 4 days later.
And she says, "Mom, 
did you hear that justice Scalia
died?" I said, "Yes, 
sweetie, I did hear."
I mean, she says, 
"Well, my friends and I
were talking, 
and we think that since you're a
judge, you should apply for that
position."
And I said, "Sweetheart, 
being on the Supreme Court
is not the kind of thing that 
you apply for.
The president just knows 
about you.
He just hears about you and
decides he wants 
to appoint you."
And she said, "Well, 
if President Obama needs to hear
about you, I'm going to write 
him a letter."
(laughing)
And she did. She goes running 
off and she comes back,
and she has this beautiful 
handwritten letter where she is
endorsing me. My mother is
a nice person. She'll never 
brag,
(laughing)
and my husband took a 
picture of it,
and then actually we got it to 
him.
But it was so 
incredible because for many of
you who have teenagers, 
you don't know that they even
know what you're doing. Not to 
mention that they would,
you know, propose something like
this.
And I thought, here I have a 
child who at times I felt like I
have not been giving her 
sufficient attention.
She is not afraid to speak her
mind even to the president of 
the United States.
So I must be doing something 
right.
>> Carlton Reeves: You had a,
I guess you could call...
I don't know if you could call 
it a rough confirmation hearing.
You had a long conversation.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I had a long confirmation.
>> Carlton Reeves:
You had a long confirmation.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I did, I did.
>> Carlton Reeves:
And one of the...
And the thing we're going to 
close out with is,
something during your 
hearing,
Senator Cory Booker.
You have been through all
the grueling questions.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson: I had.
>> Carlton Reeves:
 And you write about his turn
to ask the question.
And he put down his notes and 
really didn't ask a question.
"It's hard for me to look at you
and not see my mom," he said.
"Not see my cousins."
That's what he told me.
This is what you're writing. "I 
see my ancestors in yours,"
he continued, "Before pausing to
remember a woman who had
approached him on the street to 
express her overwhelming pride
in and enthusiastic support for 
my nomination.
Nobody's going to steal 
the joy of that woman in the
street, or the calls that I'm 
getting or the text.
Nobody's going to steal that 
joy,"
Senator Booker says. "You 
have earned this spot
Ketanji Brown Jackson. You are 
worthy Ketanji Brown Jackson,
you are a great American."
In that moment, 
a single tear of gratitude for
the senator's kindness came down
your cheek.
And after that, 
Patrick and your daughter,
you all went to a separate room.
Your daughter says, "Senator 
Booker will always have a place
in my heart. Because in the 
middle of the storm,
he stood up for my mom."
We going to stand up for you, 
baby.
(laughs)
(applause)
We're standing up for you.
>> Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you very much.